The latest Roy Morgan Poll shows us that the Left are haemorrhaging male voters to the Right.
Labour + Green have 42.5% of women while National only have 36.5%, but it is with men that the Left have crashed out on. Labour + Greens have 32.5% male vote while National storms home with 41.5%.
The most dangerous part of Identity Politics is when white men start seeing themselves as a seperate identity and start seeing themselves as the victims…
Misogynistic influencers are trending right now. Defusing their message is a complex task
Andrew Tate, the professional fighter-turned media personality who earned the ire and admiration of millions with his viral rants about male dominance, female submission and wealth, is everywhere these days.
…this hyper toxic masculinity is erupting as a push back to the extremes of the post me too movement and the B-E-L-I-E-V-E all women position, that’s why the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp Court case was so caustic, it was more than a celebrity divorce, it was an attack on the pillars of logic hastily arranged in real time social media intellectual creation.
Identity Politics is an important journey on understanding your relationship with power, but if all you come to the table with is an all consuming connection to your skin colour, gender or sexual orientation then there is no shared values or common ground on which to build.
The Professional Managerial Class are selling elite middle class virtue signals as social policy which alienates voters whose concerns are on how to pay the bills, not what pronouns you use.
The true demarcation of power in a capitalist democracy is not your skin colour or gender identity or genitalia, it is between the 1% richest and their 9% enablers vs the 90% rest of us!
We need more solutions to housing, poverty and the climate crisis, we don’t need more social media cancellations for crimes against middle class dogma.
The Left look for traitors and the Right look for recruits. That’s why ACT is on 12+%
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Could just be good dads who want safe spaces for their daughters, or who don’t want to go to prison if their sons want to become their daughters, or who think that tittle tattling on the neighbours isn’t a good keen bloke sort of thing the way that planting beans or coaching a sports team is. Basic commonsense sort of stuff.
Yep, commonsense “toxic masculinity” in action. What is it with these labels these days.
So well put Snow White, though some of my goodly “progressive” workmates will nevertheless look on such commonsense attitudes with suspicion.
But being thoroughly repelled by Ardern and friends doesn’t mean I have much confidence in the alternatives. Luxon is afraid of conflict, and will look for the easy way out. Get ready for backroom deals with the iwiocracy, unless ACT or NZ First have enough seats to keep Luxon honest. And let’s not forget that 24 out of 32 National MP’s (including the supposedly conservative Luxon) voted for the nefarious legislation banning so-called “conversion practices”, because they either couldn’t be bothered reading it through, or weren’t savvy enough to understand some of its implications, or were afraid to stand up and be counted. And et tu David – Seymour, who has so staunchly opposed the government’s ethnostate agenda, disappointingly also supported the “conversion practices” legislation.
Well said Snowy. Males are just over all the claptrap peddled by this government. Females will be too soon.
Jason We are over it. I don’t know one woman, all mothers, not disturbed by the women hell-bent on abolishing the Commission for Children. Even if they backtrack, it’s too late.
To not over complicate this gender issue, Labour are shedding voters anyway at an alarming rate and will continue to do so. They are out on their feet, on empty, the lights are on but no one is home.
As a voter I’m looking for a true left and cannot see one, just some amalgam of gooey extreme social liberal academics mixed with neo liberal orthodoxy to command the economy backed by a Prime Minister who is as trustworthy as a stereotypical used car salesman. The Greens are sanctimonious middle class centre group looking for that next tummy warming sugar high of feel good interference for some supposed victims somewhere but strategically are twice as dumb as Labour and no where near as devious!
And as white males are the devil in everything no matter how ridiculous, then perhaps that’s why they turn away from the so called left, who love to hold them up as their whipping boys! And as a result men will turn their voting power to anyone but the status quo!
And all the meanwhile the right side of politics continues to be the most corrupt in our history with a National leader whose ability to look one straight in the eye and don’t know if he’s in Te Puke or Hawaii? And of course we have an ACT party who will rape and pillage our democracy. Worst of all people like you are prepared to vote for the corruption parties.
You’re 100% right Martyn, but men have good reason to see themselves as victims, because they are in western society.
The demonization of men is corroding society and sadly, those most affected will ultimately be women.
Andrew. Yes, but in New Zealand, the “holier than thou” attitude of LGBT persons towards mainstream society seems to have been particularly pernicious, which combined with the weaponisation of “colonialism “ to unfairly clobber all Pakeha, has been very divisive, and quite extraordinary when coming from Parliamentary politicians like Kelvin Davis, Elizabeth Kerekere, and Marama Davidson, not from outlier extremists. Setting sections of society against each other is the opposite of what our representatives should be doing. We’re not the enemy, we’re the electors who expect them to represent all of us. Men have every reason to feel beleaguered, but there will be women who support Ardern simply because she’s a woman, and that’s the way things tend to be,
but many of us are fed up with being treated like retarded school children.
‘Could just be good dads who want safe spaces for their daughters’. Yes, protect your daughters by voting for the party of rich, old, white men who like to molest waitresses and send pictures of their genitalia to their female staff.
Snow White it’s time to wake up.
The left will lock a women in prison cell with a rapist – the right will force that women to carry the child of that rapist to term and co-parent. No difference when it comes to women, the right is just a bit more honest.
Stevie. It was the pathetic young chaps who sent off pictures of their private parts, not rich old white men, and the waitress molester may have a hair fetish possibly deriving from his maternal ethnicity issues which he should have got sorted years ago, but maybe he just couldn’t, if it pleasures him, and for sure he only got away with it because he was a rich so-called man, but his colour is irrelevant, there are old brown perverts too, and yellow ones.
I can’t speak for or as a man, but as far as wokesters alienating the punters is concerned, it is the infantilising of the voters, and the being lectured to by PM’s, and people like Paul Hunt telling everyone to be kind and so on in the way that infant teachers talk to kiddies, or mothers deal with squabbling siblings, which is too hard to stomach. Why should we ?
There are men and women achievers doing things which few politicians could, and who have spent their whole working lives doing so, and who don’t deserve to be categorised by effete politicians who aren’t particularly skilled themselves, but spout pc crap and jargon and expect to be taken seriously, when out in the real world, better people are doing better things, so sod them.
Male is an identity. Victimhood is created by victimisation.
The idea that it only matters when particular people feel it is as old as humanity. Is the very thing the left exists to fight. Along with the idea that I’m a person but you are……….
The pretend ‘left’ are a buncha fuckwits. Mainly Woke Millennial’s, GenZ’s and their missguided woke parents who’ve got some kind of guilt complex from probably something they’ve done in their past?
Or, they’re just a fuckwit?
Lets hope they lose their houses and fuck off offshore to utopia somewhere where they can live nextdoor to a unicorn.
The sooner NZ returns to some kind of balanced society and the Asylum in Wellington gets a good hosing down from the inside, then we might get some traction and be able reclaim the last 10 years lost.
Labour arent coming back so all the 25% of support should fuckoff offshore now. Free up a few houses for the 27,000 living in the motels you’ve put them in for the passed 5+ years and done nothing about it.
As a mis-guided woke parent my response to reading your post is this – I hear a lot of anger and pain in those words. I acknowledge that but don’t know what I can offer to bring some peace to you and people you care about. Blaming Woke Millennials (idealistic middle-class children basically) is a kind of soft target – don’t you think?
The left in government – at least economically – tends to favor re-distribution which has a positive economic impact for many – relative to prior circumstances. Is enough done? Is it genuinely helpful or just band-aids for serious trauma?
The difficult and, lets be honest, boring economic and social welfare policy discussions that we could focus on don’t catch the eye or make a decent click bait headline. But they have real impact for ordinary people including marginalized people.
While I haven’t been recruited to ACT yet, Labour are now totally unrecognisable to the Party I have always voted for until 2020
I remember a few years back watching with interest as woke identity politics poisoned overseas democracies and turned everything into a pile of septic pus. Thank goodness I live in NZ I thought. We are still a fairly grounded bunch I told myself.
Well that woke virus is here now and I am looking around for a cure
We going to talk about Hamilton East and a 33% swing in just over 2 years?
Grant just reached for the ice pick.
The Police have just started another major push to shaft law abiding firearms owners this time via cost recovery and the only real hope to redeem this is by voting ACT in the next election. Good bye Labour and good riddance.
If the cost increases are due to all the additional public safety measures, then the Government should be the ones footing the bill, otherwise make all the additional “services” optional. After all, we don’t charge the trucking industry full cost recovery for destroying our highways, do we?
“Men vote National and Act because of Andrew Tate” is a very long bow, Martyn. I’d never heard of the guy until he was in the news recently, and I’m a bloke the same age as him.
My observations from building sites where I work (plenty of Waitakere men there):
Men hate inefficiency. Labour talk, but don’t do. It’s immensely frustrating.
Men, apart from a few judges and MPs who pay good money to be treated like babies once a week, hate being infantalised. Starting with the 1pm political broadcast during the lockdowns, it’s gone from mildly amusing, to downright fucking annoying.
Lack of immigration means building sites are short staffed, long hours and potentially dangerous. The pay is great, sure. But having clocked 63 hours this week already, it’s no surprise men prefer Erica Stanford and David Seymour to Michael Wood and Jacinda Ardern when it comes to border policies.
We’ve also had a spate of thefts on building sites. Very little resolution from police, but at least the resolution on the cameras is good. Let’s just say we have a pretty good idea of the demographics committing the crimes.
I’m not sure what a “Waitakere man” is, but this line rings very true:
“Men hate inefficiency”
“Men hate inefficiency”
Yeah????
So do women who have raised families,(i.e. sons!!!!)run households while running businesses for themselves or as is usual inefficient men!!!
I note that Aldous Huxley spake to Orwell, saying that he thought the striving for efficiency would be the wrecker of humanity. Food for thought. And it may be found to be efficient to undersupply people with food! See Irish famine, see Bengal –
What were the causes and results of the Bengal famine in 1943?
It was a major famine that claimed lives of around 2.1–3 million people. The deaths were predominantly caused due to starvation and diseases like malaria and cholera that worsened because of population displacement, malnutrition, poor sanitation and paucity of health care.21/03/2019
The Bengal Famine of 1943 – Causes, Effects, Deaths
For many years, the British blamed the famine on weather conditions and food shortfalls, as if it were an unavoidable natural disaster. Today, most researchers agree that the crisis was human-made, triggered primarily by war-time inflation that pushed the price of food out of reach.21/01/2022
How British colonizers caused the Bengal famine
newint.org ·
https://newint.org › features › 2021/12/07 › f…
It can be more efficient to let nature take its course! That’s different than efficient time use and planning by women with households and outside jobs to manage. But I do think that some females have actually overseen the deadly type of efficiency;
also those carrying on with deadly goods production ie asbestos after it is known to be dangerous ever after use to people around it.
My wife has a fridge magnet: “Behind every successful man is an exhausted woman”
“It’s gone from mildly amusing to downright fucking annoying “ . Yep. Telling people in lockdown not to talk to neighbours progressed to spying on the neighbours, with the SIS producing helpful hints, women’s mag style. We’re not on a wartime footing, and nor should we have to live as if we are, or wonder if some Sth American junta is in control. It’s all too divisive.
“The Manoshpere”–fucking spare us! Why catastrophise? There should be every confidence that there are enough non misogynistic new gens to step up eventually. We may be landed with the dirty filthy Natzos again for a bit–and NZ Labour will have a lot to answer for that situation, but WE DON’T have to join them.
The phenomenons of Post Modernism, an embedded monetarist state, and neo liberal individualism have contributed to this scenario. But so have long standing historic post colonial and City/Province divides. There has long been a significant sector of pretty dark and ugly New Zealanders–heh, long before J Ardern was born even…
It is a stretch for the likes of those that knew the Norm Kirk Govt. soon replaced by Rob’s Mob, and the treacherous Roger’n’Ruth to see the ebb and flow of politics and societal development–i.e. non linear. But generally progress gets made. The sky was meant to fall when “poofters” were allowed to join the human race, Nukes were banned, cigarette smoking was marginalised and paid parental leave, youth rates dispatched, and a decent minimum wage arrived. These gains all have to be defended and refought for sometimes.
But really, there is no way anyone with half a brain should seriously defer to poor widdle wimpy (regardless of rock hard abs or not) white boys–sob–and regretful older white grumps.
All this shit probably needed to happen though @ Tigger. And probably best it happened sooner than later.
The bigger project though is to get (as you regularly state) the electorate engaged in doing stuff and getting involved – no matter how pathetic their means and existence. THAT will require a cultural change and things having to get rilly rilly rilly bad for the average specimen
My reckons are that the Labour Party is probably only now beginning to understand the extent of the shit they’re in, and there’ll be (and are) many cudda shudda wuddas.
It’s even possible that JA is having to weigh up some options as to Her future. At worst, its probably somethink like: will it be the marriage or the current career. At best, it’ll be hawking the C.V. around on the Whurl stage – global politiks and media.
treat people like shite with constant vilification which amounts victimisation AND THEN EXPECT THEM TO VOTE FOR YOU…
What is a man, and how do you define it? Is it like a being a woman? A think that anyone can be by saying so?
Depends who you ask RB. A man generally has a punishment and specific chromosomes. A women generally has a vagina and specific chromosomes and can generally bare children. There is also a mixed bag in between known broadly as intersex with varying mixtures of both. Masculinity and femininity are shared by all sexes to varying degrees hence where the identity argument gets even more complicated. Just my layperson understanding. It’s all a bit complicated but at the end of the day we are all “doing human” in our own individually unique way.
That is to much real biology and facts for the religion of transgenderism.
Seriously, what is a women – anyone who says so. If that applies to men equally and surely the most inclusive crowd of them all would protect the right of non penis havers to declare themselves men with vaginas just by virtue of saying so, one single cervix exam after the other, one man giving birth after the other and so on and so forth.
Once you have achieved the inclusion of everyone everywhere why still bother about men or women as a vote getter as both terms are nothing more then meaningless bullshit.
Why bother with the old old of men / women. Lets all be citizens, or voters, or peasants instead.
And then really it becomes clear that labor is hemorrhaging people no matter their self id and is on a good path of running out of warm bodies pulling the lever for them.
*penis* not punishment lol
Aren’t all men rapists, so need a punishment?
Warning – gloomy thoughts and scenario.
What is … leads to a question. Good question. The mixed up society, into hedonism and having a materialistic self-indulgent, wired, life satisfying using loud music, sex or drugs; and money or consumer objects to satisfy. Such people are hardly in touch with their inner human complex selves. And here is a video from Berlin called ‘Sex’. It illustrates that as an obsession in both sexes. It drives young women to socialise with unknown men in a strange country and have sex (not make love) despite possible bad outcomes; STDs, unreasonable force, and possibly the climax of death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-VcMcHHoFg
That is really an OTT illustration of what is happening to NZ after a prolonged coupling with free-market neoliberal capitalism which is sucking out all our juices leaving us broken and wrecked. The citizens are restless and disturbed – the promise of wonderful godzone from the international trade treaties seemed a dream to blinkered economists and wealth-hungry but turned into a nightmare. But post-modernism* has come forward and will answer any query that comes to our minds with….further queries, and administer a panacea that will take us further along the path to Erewhon? I fear it will be the Cure for all Diseases (Death) and eventually be happy to be granted the right to choose euthanasia at our will and time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erewhon
* Postmodernism is an intellectual stance or mode of discourse characterized by skepticism toward the “grand narratives” of modernism, opposition to epistemic certainty or stability of meaning, and emphasis on ideology as a means of maintaining political power. Wikipedia
There is a simple explanation for the relatively small gender gap of 7-9% between LG and NACTS and that is that NZ is still a very sexist society.
The patriarchy still rules witness the continued male violence against women and girls.
The parties that embody the patriarchy more will get more male support.
Sexism will become even more oppressive when global economic and climate collapse creates more competition between the sexes, and puts men’s fragile hold on their psyches under pressure.
Identity politics is largely superfluous in protecting both men and women from the material reality that shapes their lives – witness the futility of gender identity trumping biological sex – as the global capitalist dystopian system is takes us all down the road to extinction.
“Expect the unexpected”. From a couple of weeks ago: https://theconversation.com/coalitions-kingmakers-and-a-rugby-world-cup-the-calculations-already-influencing-next-years-nz-election-195010
If National get in, a lot of men will find it hard when their pay gets frozen.
mothers and daughters and transwomen needn’t apply.
Now, can you imagine how the good old ruling rich felt when the Left talked about the people’s misery? We should have kept justice to ourselves to save their feelings. Wherever an underdog is, the Left is. That white males are relatively privileged and feel their privilege is being eaten into by needier people doesn’t change anything but the ‘politics’ of the Left. Your ‘woke’ is making a principle of slimey, sometimes necessary, politics. Undermines the people’s cause.
Don’t bend to immediate politics, bend to ultimate truth. That is the people’s endless hard row to hoe. Our failure these last forty years is not bad tactics but lack of idealistic leadership and talking for our right cause at the highest level.
We all bend at the end, not least the first Labour Govt. But that was at the end of decades of iron.
I would ask a similar question to when (and there’s inevitably no answer) I ask rightwingers to define ‘woke’, I ask the woke DEFINE toxic masculinity
Martyn, no screw honky the white-colonial-cis-het-monogomous-neurotypical-righthanded-patriarchy-called-mike must be overthrown for the sake of socialmedia likes, fashionable dinner parties, media outrage farming and oppressed sharks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/12/05/shark-week-diversity-study/