Wait, what??? We will jail parents for 5 years for not giving teens puberty blockers??? This will be political cyanide

1. We can blame Minister Faafoi but really that’s like picking on the neighbors cat for shitting in your garden. They are simple creatures who just do and don’t really know why.

   The angelic little face behind this law was the MP for Auckland Central. Is Chloe going to be mentioned in dispatches here?

   • That is straight talking xray and bogh right and amusing to me. I wonder if that will be regarded as being against one of the clauses in the hate speech bill? Then there would be no room for relief by laughter when considering politics, which would become even more dire and dreary.

   • “like picking on the neighbors cat for shitting in your garden.”

     What a gift for simile. You’re wasted on political blogs XRAY, go and write poetry 😉

2. Looks like Faafoi’s built up brownie points, for being the best of a bad bunch of Labour ministers and leading the pack, has now gone backwards into the pack again.
   Why do I smell the green parties finger prints all over this new legislation?, or heaven forbid, is Labours virtue signalling wokeness aligning with the greens!….if so, 2023 election may not be such a walkover/landslide for the left.

3. The danger here is it demonstrates the true nasty authoritarianism lurking behind Labours smiles and talk of kindness.

   We should not be opposing these policies because of their wokeness. We need to be opposing Labour as an entity because they have totalitarian leanings in their soul and THEY WANT TO CONTROL US!!!! They do not want freedom, they do not want a bunch of working class guys to sit down on a friday and have a beer and talking shit and make jokes about each other, they want to control every aspect of our thoughts. They are becoming an extremely frightening bunch of ideologues who do NOT represent the NZ working class. And anyone who thinks these guys are class left is dreaming, they have already shown us that working people will be punished with increased costs, unaffordable housing, thought control (unless you happen to be in one of the favoured identity politics class), while the mindless non-productive paper-pushing bureaucrats they favour get rich at our expense.

   At one time I believed this current Govt had good intentions. But they have done absolutely nothing to make life easier for the working class. I used to think some of the shit like My Faafoi says here was just slip of the tongue. Now I believe they are showing their true nature. These people are evil and need to go. They are not a working class party, they are neo-totalitarian.

   • “These people are evil and need to go”
     Probably the most astute eight word summation of our current government to appear on this blog.
     I regret however that the 80/20 rule is likely to apply. 80 percent are sad frightened shadows of what kiwis used to be.
     ” This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he(she) first appears he is a protector” Plato.

   • Ben, you’ve got it pretty much correct (I won’t say “right”!) but your last sentence:
     They are not a working class party…
     needs some extra clarification.
     I don’t know your age but I’m nearly 70. I can actually remember a time when Labour was a working class party. But the real kicker is that Labour has not been representative of the working class since the 80s.
     It pisses me off greatly that this party still calls itself Labour when it does absolutely nothing for the working class. It’s a nasty bit of false advertising in the style of the neoliberal structures (“We value your custom”,”we apologise for getting it wrong”,”we have to restructure our pricing to match the market” – You all know this kind of shit).
     I do like your term “neo-totalitarian” however. Quite succinct. I guess they think they are signalling strong committed government and that the people will like that. Some of us who have been around for a while and have had a read of history will have seen this approach before. A Hilter, B Mussolini, J Jughashvili, R D Muldoon, S Holland to name a small few who have led their countries to great success.

     • As the saying goes “Labour used to be made up for the cream of the working class, it is now made up from the dregs of the middle class”

       • Historically the left used to attract people of all classes and often- in other places – some good high achievers; they may have been captured by second-rate idealogues, or, in the case of the New Zealand Greens, hijacked by folk with unresolved childhood issues and unable to see past their own agendas and prejudice; anyone living in 50’s – 60’s small town New Zealand may revisit them in the Greens, but back then I do think that people were kinder. Judgmental yes, but less arrogant, and less consumerist/materialist.

   • From someone who thinks farmers should be able to trash our waterways with impunity.

     You, sir are evil.

     • Cool millsy.

       I’m an organic farmer who has fenced and planted all waterways. I do not use soluble fertilisers and there is no run off into streams. I have planted 300,000 trees and have permanently retired over 25% of farm at my expense for native forest regeneration. I am part of a wider farmer catchment group who is attempting to fence off and regenerate native forest on an entire catchment area from the river headwaters to the beach, a matter of some 1000ha of farmer land willingly donated to the greater good at our expense.

       If this means I am evil and wanting to trash waterways I suggest all the population of Auckland who allow human shit on their beaches must be the spawn of Satan himself! But perhaps you are the type who would much prefer to stick to anti-farming rhetoric?

       • You are on record as opposing laws that protect our waterway.

         • I am “on record” opposing stupid top-down neo-totalitarian paper-shufflers imposing impractical so-called environmental safeguards that will often have massively counter-productive side effects. MMany of the target people are already way ahead of what these stupid new rules are trying to achieve. Yes there are some bad farmers, just like there are some bad buggers in every field of human endeavor. Punishing everyone by adding yet another massive layer of unnecessary paperwork just means more money will be spent on ticking boxes instead of putting the time and funds into environmental work.

           This is a danger of big Government, it can lead to a huge amount of non productive paper shuffling. Good for the Wellington bureacuracy of course, gives them a heap of additional useless things to do all day at tax payer expense.

           So here’s a suggestion. Instead of putting massive additional costs on farmers for environmental regulation, how about we try something similar with our cities? Let’s start with Auckland, because this is the NZ city with the reputation for human sewage on the beachs and true waterway damage. Let’s get inspectors to come around every single dwelling at the expense of the resident, and inspect their backyards, look under their compost heaps, see how much fertiliser of herbicide they’ve used in the garden for any run-off. Check their pipework, and their sewer connections. Check their rubbish disposal systems. These guys will not cost more than $200/hr and should not cost you more than about $5000 per year. But it’s worth it because it’s all about protecting our waterways. And by the way, if there is ever any human sewage on the beach again we will DNA test it and find the human source, and come back and fine the crap out of you. Sounds fair? All good to me, after all, this massive layer of extra paperwork is all about protecting our waterways, so everyone will be fine with it. Anyone who disagrees is obviously someone who hates the envrironment and is a deliberate polluter, and needs to be punished.

           • The only way we can have clean water, is by regulations. Look at Somalia, they have no clean water laws and their rivers are like shit holes. Do you want our rivers to be like those in Somalia?

             • Congrats – You are the first LEFT-wing troll on the site in a while.

               Trolls – Divert the discussion, ignore responses, ask endless unrelated questions, contribute nothing genuine from themselves.

               Ben has given you all the info you need and more. You refuse to listen, or read, let alone think about it.

               Into the troll box…

             • Do we want our beachs covered in human excrement like Auckland? Why does regulation not stop this disgusting environmental eyesore?

               I don’t know if I’m not making myself clear, or if you are deliberately misunderstanding. Auckland has the worst case of human crap on it’s beachs. Over the top Regulation as you are suggesting would say let’s take Aucklands situation, and heavy-handedly enforce penalties on every other Council in the country in a punitive way. This is an exact parrallel to the farming regulaiton; ignore the fact that many farmers/councils are way ahead of the game environmentally, and treat all farmers/councils as if they are the worst offenders. In other words, go for big stick, no carrot.

               The difference in reality is Auckland can cover it’s beachs in shit wihtout penalty, while the much-hated dairy industry (not me) will be penalised heavily if their effluent pools get overwhelmed by a flood and spill. Auckland sewerage and dairy effluent spills both occur in extreme weather events, Auckland is granted a free pass because it is an act of nature, dairy farmers are punished severely despite it be an act of nature. There is already a massive inequity in regulatory fascism, and they want to do the same thing to all farmers regardless.

               Look I’ve added up the extra costs some of the Labour/Green Govt want to impose on me and it’s in 6 figures, just wasted money gone on compliance paperwork. I would pass everything, but still have to pay the same for it. My income is a lot less than the increase of imposed compliance costs, so I’ll go broke… along with a whole lot of other environmental-minded farmers who view the land as a taonga rather than purely a means of production. Labour DOES NOT CARE. They are more interested in building their expensive bureacracies than actually achieving anything tangible. All top-down, heavy-handed Govt over reaction. It is not just farming, they are doing the same thing to everyone. Arrogantly convinced they know best, refusing to listen, and imposing their ‘we know best’ mindset on the dirty peasants. Remeber Ardern and ‘no strikes under me”? How many times have the nurses striked so far? Teachers?

               • You cannot deregulate and privatise our way to clean waterways. As I said, Somalia has rivers like sewers as they dont have the laws.

                 • We have a lot of laws regulating this issue already, so based on the assumption that “laws passed = problems solved”, our waterways are 100% pure (we also don’t have any murders, theft or firearms crimes either based on that theory).

                   Of course since none of that is actually true, the usual top down solution is to pass more laws, until murder etc becomes double plus illegal & everyone is super safe.

                   Generally the new laws do little, often because they never resource them properly. They are just more paper, more compliance’s & more costs, distracting from the real issues & drawing resources away from real solutions.

   • I came to the same conclusion 6 months ago. This is no well meaning accident, it is deliberate and deeply concerning. Big sister has an agenda a mile wide and it has nothing to do with democratic socialism.

4. So just before the election certain media and the polls were saying a vote for Winston was a wasted vote. The public were informed just before the election that NZF were to be investigated for dodgy donations. Somebody leaked that Winston had received more super than he was entitled to, just before the election. This person/department/elected member was never found.
   1. Can you please not mention the need for Winston out of respect for me.
   2. Always vote for the person most like yourself. In the above case someone with a bit of Kiwi common sense like maybe, oh I don’t know……oh shit Winston.
   3. These matters you speak of should be dealt with by way of education and health promotion and family/individual support. 5 years in the slammer for these crimes!!!!???

   • “should be dealt with by way of education”

     Dealing with it by way of education is the major part of the problem. It is now mandated, within the new education curriculum, that children start to think about and question their “gender identity”, – from a ridiculously young age.
     ——-
     It is the context of the new education system that makes this such a concern. A few years ago it would have been unusual for a young child to start thinking about their “gender identity”, let alone their “sexual orientation”. Now, discussion of these things is being taught within the school curriculum.

     Here is a link: https://www.inclusive.tki.org.nz/guides/supporting-lgbtiqa-students/plan-sexuality-and-gender-education-years-1-8

     Right from years One to Three, “Students will learn about” questioning and discussing gender stereotypes and norms.

     This means they will come home and want to talk to parents about it. But if parents give the “wrong answers”, there may well be repercussions within the new laws.

     • Thanks for the link Kheala. This is so disturbing. Could have been thought up by an AI program! Oh heck, was it?

       • Might have been…
         Good to see you here again, Grey 🙂
         Missed ya…

         • Thing is Kheala, it’s much easier than teaching maths or science – or how to enjoy reading real books instead of watching iPads. The thought of some teachers I’ve known imparting gender information sends chills up my spine , and it HAS got some quite reasonable parents worried. There’s lunacy abroad.

           • It’s a social and medical experiment, on our children. To me, it’s horrifying.

             • I agree. I have no idea if or what the MSM is doing about this – I may go and read the library newspapers as I’m boycotting them – but it’s a terrible thing to be doing to New Zealand’s children, and a totally surreal scenario.

5. Yep maybe a special wing in Mount Eden prison can be set up for those people that Commit these heinous crimes of gay conversion therapy etc, potentially next door to the special wing set aside for the Comancheros !

6. Yes XRAY I totally agree.
   This a Green Chloe driven policy.

7. These people are authoritarians and totalitarians.
   They literally are becoming the fascists they think everyone else is.

8. All done with the Assistance of the Human Rights Commission, the guys that give money to gangs to talk to them.
   Human rights for some, but not if you are white, straight or a parent.

   • Keepcalmcarryon Half the HRC don’t get on with each other. Marama D was one of their advisors. They ‘re a pretty pedestrian body, or worse.

9. Okay, so back in the day, when I was in my early teens. Not only did some people think I was gay, but some adults thought I was a girl. I guess the long hair didn’t help (it was the ‘70’s) and being groomed by an older gay guy probably reinforced the idea.

   Thankfully my parents and family were able to get into see a psychiatrist and helped out of my troubles.

   Today my parents and psychiatrist would be accused of converting me to the path of straightness, and I’d be placed on puberty blockers. And don’t think I’m joking. I’ve had discussions about this with my cousin talking about not only the hate speech stuff, but also conversion therapy. She was the one who realised what was happening to me at the time and got the help I needed.

   My apologies if I sound somewhat incoherent, this opens up strong emotions and angers for me and I find it difficult to discuss in a logical way.

   • No apologies needed Terry. Thanks for speaking up – adolescence can be a very turbulent process, and I wish our simple-minded parliamentarians would listen to stories like yours.

   • Take care Terry. These issues are very real for you.

10. This is why they needed Winston.

    🙂
    yeah, I miss him already. Sanity ‘n stuff..

11. No, because their “gender identity” is whatever they say they want it to be, on any particular day.

12. Yet again Seymour got the soundbite 😉

13. As XRAY has pointed out, this isn’t Faafoi’s doing. This is the work of your beloved Chloe and her mates in the so-called Green Party.

    Martyn can you remind me why you thought Chloe would make a great deputy PM? You don’t seem to get it – this woke fascist crap is in her political DNA, it’s not an aberration. Same with most of the current crop of so-called Greens.

    Unless there’s a radical turnaround from this government, I will probably vote for ACT in 2023. ACT’s belief in voodoo economics becomes the lesser of two evils when the wokery of this government is seriously undermining all our institutions. Or NZ First if they can mount a serious campaign. What really is the point of having a nominally left-wing government if what they actually deliver is neoliberalism + identity politics on steroids?

    But there won’t be a radical turnaround from this government. What we’re seeing is the expression of their political DNA. Both LINO and GINO are full of (a) race and gender activists, and (b) neoliberals. Both parties should change their names to reflect what their actual priorities are.

    • Everyone liked Chloe initially for her youthful novelty value, and then because she’s all for pot, and she did a Muldoon put-down on Gerry Brownlee which made it into The Guardian.

14. I think people have their priorities wrong.
    In the near future as torrential rain washes away hillsides and water floods through our homes we will be able to trudge to higher ground secure in the knowledge we are a gender diverse people without inhibitions about sexuality.
    Homelessness is no longer a problem because the first to die in the new climate induced epidemics of dengue, yellow fever and cholera were the poorest and most vulnerable. But they died knowing that a compassionate government often said how deeply they cared for society’s most vulnerable people.
    The same thing with an ageing population. A touch of typhus and a completely bankrupt health system means we no longer have to euthanise old people. The most important thing about hospitals is the few remaining medical staff will all have full awareness of the Te Tiriti and respect the culture of each deceased person in the funeral
    The long summer droughts, punctuated by destructive cyclones, makes it increasingly difficult to grow food as the best agricultural land is reserved by the cattle barons for their dairy herds. This is sanctioned by the government as necessary to provide the exports of meat that pay our accumulated debt to foreign banks.
    The duopoly of supermarkets is no longer a problem as most of them were burned to the ground in the riots when bread reached $15.00 for a standard loaf. Now most people buy their food in growers market, which is organically grown in people’s backyard vegetable gardens or land that was abandoned after the property speculation bubble crashed.
    Obviously the situation was difficult for the government but hate speech and greater police powers is useful in controlling critics of the government which is now the Richprick’s Party( ex-ACT and National Party). Widespread disillusionment with the Labour Party led to massive non-voting in 2023.
    Extreme weather events, disease epidemics and riots by poor and hungry people led to the declaration of emergency powers by Doctor Felicity Munchbottom, New Zealand’s first Transsexual Prime Minister who cancelled elctions and made Great Barrier Island the seat of government.
    Doctor Munchbottom is fluent in Te Reo, Samoan, Tongan and Mandarin Chinese. He/she lives with his/her three partners, James, Lucinda and Wolfie. They are currently childless but are interested in adopting a boy/girl/other in the future. Oranga Tamariki( yes it still exists) is currently looking for suitable vic(sorry) applicants.

    and as we batter each other to death to feed our family and children on the few scraps of food we managed to grow in our backyard vegetable gardens

    • Please, please, pleeease! Finish it! I have to know the ending! 🙂

      • …. it ends when the eight-brained octopus Maui fished from the sea for the Wellington City Council to model its team work on, emerges from the Pacific Ocean, swims against a current unimpeded by the long- vanished buses of times past, and wraps its tentacles around a Beehive shaped with convenient foresight to have the life squeezed out of it before the pollies realise exactly what’s going on, just as they did to the proles.

      • Why wait for this laggard author JS Bark. For an ending I would like to see the family and their neighbours set themselves up into a little food circle where each household produces at least two vegs, fruit, and then two of the group do daily bread, and follow a careful dietary regime and have extra when available, a proportion of which they share to those who want it. They won’t starve, and have monthly potluck meetings with oher similar groups and can help when some new fungus attacks etc. That would prevent an Irish Potato Famine situation. But it has to be flourishing first not just started as a matter of urgency when some trouble strikes. Find out who your friends are and be loyal to them, as well as caring about your own family. That’s the way of the future.

        • Find out who your friends are and be loyal to them, as well as caring about your own family.

          Yes.

          That’s the way of the future.

15. The government is at fault from way back when they introduced neolib-freemarket into our lives and broke our path to adulthood and self-determining adults holding down jobs and making achievable plans. They have oppressed the citizens and people fall off the conveyor belt to security and stability. Now they want to put patches over the sores, and fines those who can’t comply to their required scenario.

    What is needed is counselling for youngsters who have little hope for the future, help them to find their inner gifts, to gain skills to use them, something to do that will be admired by society at large. Not to thrash around looking to see if it will be better being another gender. Some might find it so, but encourage them to give life a go, and give them the tools and help meet the goals they develop and most will cope with life in our present circus, that is developing into a challenging Big Show. It would help if we had better control over our country and its direction, but help the young adults to gain inner strength and they can stand tall and find the best way to cope with our coming troubles and escape nemesis.

16. Getting this advice from the DPMC Advisors Hayden Glass, Julie Fry and Peter Wilson is another ‘clue’ that this government has gone rogue!
    Self-interest advisors doing the bidding for a bit of social engineering to move the goal posts. For whom though? Jenny Sutton?

17. There is more fascism and repression in the Christian religion.

    • Christianity is a choice though millsy.
      I still can’t understand why even counselling someone (a consenting adult) over their sexual orientation is seen as a crime but counselling and conversion therapy (including chemical and surgical intervention) for gender dysphoria in young teenagers is not only OK but refusal is a crime. It’s insane.
      The leading lights in government might think it’s OK, the vast majority of people, 80% from the survey, are not that foolish.

      • From my experience, troubled, confused & sexually abused teenagers who may also be questioning their sexually need highly qualified psychologist/psychiatrists to help them. My therapist would challenge me on my thoughts and the conclusions, & helped me find a way through the mess I had found myself in.

        In today’s world, the default setting for a therapist would be to confirm my gayness/transgender issues, unless I said no. You can’t be troubled sexually, and be straight. Unless you have a desire to sexually abuse women, children or other men. There are too many overly empathetic now involved in “counseling” which is why I believe it should be regulated.

        My experience with some people in the “radical rainbow” community is that they want to claim you for one of their own. A bit like the missionaries claiming your soul for the baby Jesus.

        • Whoa, so you think that homosexuality is a mental illness?

          Seems you want LGBT’s stuck in asylums and ECT’d until they are zombies.

          • trolly strikes again

            • You dont deny?

              Homophobia is a disease, and the only cure is jailing Christian’s.

              • I very much doubt that anyone, anyone at all on this site, or who even reads it, thinks like that. But then you know that already, treadmills troll.

              • You’re either a very clumsy troll or a drunk one, or just plain stupid. Probably the latter. You cannot even get your troll suggestions in a line.
                Treadmillsy T. Roll thinks:
                “Shall I suggest this person is homophobic? Or that gays want to imprison Christians? Oh! I Know!! I’ll fire them all in at once. That’ll show them.”

18. The National party supports it, so all the people in the comments crying ‘authoritarian’ etc, you’re right cos Nats would do it too.

    NO definition of ‘gender identity’ or ‘gender expression’, none, nada. If you cant define it how do you enforce it, legally

    Meanwhile in UK, Finland, Sweden and other countries they are walking back their claims puberty blockers are ‘safe and reversible’, not Mr Little and the MOH- they still have it ont he MOH website under advice for parents of young trans.

    Also underway in the UK at the moment is a Tribunal Hearing for Helen Webberley who runs “GenderGP” and has administered PB to children as young as 12. The Tribunal is 5 days into a 55 day hearing. 55 days! here’s what the suspended doctor is facing https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gp-facing-tribunal-running-illegal-21122035

    While you’re at it, read Tavistock v bell (UK High Court0- 3000 pages of evidence produced and they found treating trans children under 16 with PB is ‘experimental’ and lacks medical ‘efficacy’. Sorry to break it to everyone, children are not short Adults, they are undeveloped Adults and do not always know what’s best—

    • Good point about the Nats Tracey – not so different from LINO, apart from the tough-on-crime rhetoric.

    • Yes Tracey, it is interesting that with all the vitriol being expressed towards the Government and in particular the PM, that the support of the other parties is not being mentioned. Makes me think that most of the commentators are just one-eyed. Anyway, what does suprise me is the information that the medical profession are prescribing hormone blockers to solve puberty problems – what a sad situation; they/we have obviously learnt nothing from the opioid crisis the world faces.

      • and of course the Salvation Army, who often have to deal with the devastating results of such therapies support the bill. I wonder who the opponents will turn to if ACT finally make a call and decide to support it.

19. Our dear leader is becoming distant. Too important. How long before she demands a pyramid?

20. Yes she is much too important to do anything useful for New Zealanders it’s the international stage she’s playing for.
    She deserves a pyramid.

21. https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/08/newshub-reid-research-poll-act-soars-to-11-1-pct-labour-plummets-to-43-pct-and-national-still-not-cracking-30s.html

22. So the answer is bring back an old coot you all delighted in getting rid of 18 months ago?

    Here’s the toss. Ministers are being found out; wokeborg is in ascendancy in the PMs office and there isn’t common sense middle-of-the-road policies in a left wing covid environment. You have unfortunately starting pissing off the housewives of suburbia. This is a death-knell in an environment where COVID exhaustion is gaining traction; the rest of the world is moving on (gradually) and high priests such as Hendry and St Ash not getting the message.

    This could turn ugly, quickly if the low covid mortality holds in countries with high vaccination levels. Here’s the clicker – if we get to say 65% vaccination rate and the hermit policies continue there will be a widespread revolt as the hobbits realise vaccination isn’t the golden ticket they were promised.

23. This is another one of those cross party policies Labour, Greens and the Maori Party are in cahoots with.
    The H8 Speech bs too is something else they have in common as well as the raft of policies including te Puapua, 3 Waters, Oceans & Coastal Waters etc… They’re spending their political capitale now with comforting with the Greens and the Maori Party as they know, they’re going to need them come election time and post election to form a government.

    Just don’t fuckn mention Housing, Homelessness, Poverty, Health and Education!!

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