The entire economic success of New Zealand is built upon one sacred plank that must never be challenged and must always be ignored.
That sacred plank to our economic success is the theft of indigenous land without any intention of paying any of it back.
This most cherished of truths is one that naturally doesn’t make many white NZ folk feel comfortable. No one ever likes to think their success in life has anything to do with a rigged playing field, so when the statues and civil space symbols of yesterday conflict with the new wisdoms of the progressive moment of the now, it’s always a startling reminder of how unjust our history really is.
I for one don’t believe they should be removed at all.
I believe they are too important as symbols of the naked injustice of our colonial forefathers to destroy! How will future generations appreciate that injustice of the past if the statues celebrating the merciless victors aren’t still there filling that civic space?
I believe each identified statue requires special attention. There needs to be a new plaque added to each stature highlighting the injustice alongside a specially commissioned artist from the descendants of those abused who adds an artistic reckoning of the statue in question.
So one artist might decide to behead the statue, another might paint it in certain colour, another might have the entire statue cut in half, whatever the new artistic twist, the point would be to make the statue a memorial of the injustice and attempt to acknowledge it.
That would mean these statues would actually start interacting with their communities as real art.
Let’s reclaim civic space, but simply removing the statues is lazy. Allow artists to reimagine the statues and add plaques that acknowledge the injustice.
Let’s be creative about these wounds so that we can heal rather than the very Nu Zilind repression we normally do.
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Martin Luther King didn’t say lets all tear down America’s national monuments he marched on them. In the correct hands these national monuments are powerful symbols of hope and rallying cries. But in the wrong hands like that Marist Girls principle with half the skills of Martin Luther King is why this Black Lives Matters movement is leaderless and that leader has to come from the black communities of America and in not sure that person exists.
Well you haven’t been paying attention as to why the movement BLM doesn’t designate it group a leader because the FBI and co have targeted their previous leaders with co-ordinated innuendos and psyop tactics that makes life already uncomfortable for them. However they have articulate advocates who are educated and influential like Tamika Mallory, Dave Chappelle, Cornel West….. Look them up you might become enlighten?
A valid point, Martyn.
I recall a certain monument to Empire, on which is noted the names of deluded fools or overly patriotic zealots who went off to South Africa to help the Empire wrestle lands from the Boers and native occupants of that far away land, and were killed in the process. It is notable that the British were the first to use barbwire surrounded concentration camps to maltreat and starve women and children in order to ‘bring the enemy [the Boer men] to heel’.
Other monuments list the names of ‘brave lads’ who left their villages in Wales or Ireland or Scotland and died helping the English wrestle land from the Maoris here.
Authorities generally do not do a good job in explaining the background to events, nor the agendas of the Empire, probably because the Empire is still largely in control.
I think that they should build little structures around these statues, and make them into mini museums. Inside there could be written histories of the person, why the statue was put up, and why people later wanted it removed. This would preserve all the history.
Schoolchildren could be taken to these mini museums as part of their history lessons, and city tours could include them.
History is very important. Those who don’t know their history are doomed to repeat it.
I think that they should build little structures around these statues, and make them into mini museums. Inside there could be written histories of the person, why the statue was put up, and why people later wanted it removed. This would preserve all the history.
Schoolchildren could be taken to these mini museums as part of their history lessons, and city tours could include them.
History is very important. Those who don’t know their history are doomed to repeat it.
I think that they should build little structures around these statues, and make them into mini museums. Inside there could be written histories of the person, why the statue was put up, and why people later wanted it removed. This would preserve all the history.
Schoolchildren could be taken to these mini museums as part of their history lessons, and city tours could include them.
History is very important. Those who don’t know their history are doomed to repeat it.
That idea is well worth repeating Alison.
D J S
That is an idea well worth repeating Allison.
That’s a damn good idea @alison.
Usually the history of a war is written by the victors and becomes “official” but is never accurate.
We’re literally in 1984. Deleting history is exactly what Orwell thought he was warning us about.
Ignorance is Strength.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm
This entire movement is embarrassing to me as a human being.
Māori or The Black Lives Matters Movement does not have to give you any reason for pulling the plug, we are doing the world a favor, infact they are liberating the the world from 1984. Literally all of the current politics get put on hold until the bad, incompetent and outright evilness submits to the people on the streets. The only way the streets stop fighting back is if the pure incompetence that permeates the global system is purged.
I am in agreement with Nitrium though protesting about past injustice doesn’t trouble me. Erasing history is not a good way of ensuring an improvement in the future. It is one thing to sabotage the monuments to the people who secured this land for us, another to give it back. Who wants to go back and live where our ancestors came from?
The history of mankind is of constant conquest of land and resources by one nation, tribe or other grouping of humans over another. Certainly this process was carrying on with gusto and innovation in NZ long before us Europeans came to join in. It is still going on as energetically as ever as the US seizes Syria’s oil fields and sanctions dozens of countries in order to cause misery and starvation to their populations to destabilise their government and have it replaced by patsies that will hand their resources to US companies. Energetically supported by the UK and some European countries. And us.
If we as a species are to improve our behaviour all that and what it reveals of our nature as a species needs to be recognised and avoided. Not erased and forgotten. Lets see if we can run a fair and decent society starting from here.
D J S
As maori as a pu
+100 Nitrium
George Orwell
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
The period know as the Musket Wars was responsible for the deaths of between 20-40000 Maori. The land wars killed at the maximum 2500 according to Wikipedia and the NZ Government history website.
Are we also going to reappraise the legacy of the Musket Wars and discuss also any memorials for those involved including the likes of Te Raurapaha who let’s be brutally honest here was responsible for the deaths of more Maori than all those whose statues some wish to be torn down put together.
Yes a murdering enslaving cannibal like Te Rauparaha should actually be top of the list of statues to rearrange if we are going to bring the woke to our early history.
Read an interesting item today about America and how the first English slaves there weren’t black but Irish.
Ignorance and brutality are found in all cultures against other cultures, we should be concentrating on what unites us and dealing with injustice together not creating racial division- destroying history puts these protestors in the company of Stalin, the nazis and ISIS.
The Ignorance and brutality is led by people who may not reflect their wider community but they have grabbed power to act with little opposition. They commit their communities to the actions taken and gain followers.
These “leaders” justify their actions with promised rewards to their communities or use fear of reprisal to bind their community to the path they have instigated.
Te Rauparaha was a much revered leader around Otaki but a feared figure in many other places.
The idea of peace has to be taught universally. Perhaps women do this best.
First slaves in the colony of Virginia were Irish Scottish and English.As a result of the clearances and creation of large estates for the aristocracy. No need for serfs when you have machinery old boy!
Most black slaves in Jamaica on English sugar plantations were given the Celtic names of the white slave who had died from malaria or malnutrition before them. Hence the prevalence of Scottish and Irish and English names in the Caribbean.The nouveau riche of the sugar biz realized that the African was a superior physical specimen and couldn’t be arsed renaming ( identifying)the new human machine brought in to do the work.
So hell yeah History is the greatest teacher about what we are as a species.
Wikipedia is a compromised site and cannot be taken seriously as people like Phillip Cross can edit it everyday for 5 frikin years. Also where did Ngapuhi Chief get the guns from?? I think you and Keepcalmcarryon need to get better historically literate and don’t rely on compromised sites even NZ Government history which has questionable narrative that bigots seem to promote. Also didn’t europeans participate in human delicacy? https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/europes-hypocritical-history-of-cannibalism-42642371/ http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/
Stephen; The numbers I referred to are generally accepted and I have seen them used in a number of sources, some of which predate the internet. Can you please provide a source/s of more correct information as I am keen to look into the points you make.
Warfare had been going on for a long time before muskets arrived on the scene. The introduction of them however did radically improve the ability for slaughter in all cultures that had access to them and not soley the Maori. It would have been very pronounced here as ranged weapons weren’t in use.
Likewise cannibalism had also occured in numerous cultures and times, your point being?
and there was much peacer across the land before the musket wars. im sorry but indigenouse cultures have long histories of peaceful interaction with people from elsewhere. and travel to maintain whakapapa relationships. you will find that around the country, places are named after important chiefs and leaders from other tribes. there are whakapapa links all around and that is what is prioritised. battles were about some act that reduced someones mana. not about stealing resources or conquesting and then oppressing other tribes. the point is that your version of history has tunnel vision.
.
Woe to the vanquished, to the victor the spoils. It was the situation pre european arrival, and from the moment those white sails appeared on the horizon, anyone could have written the rest. And both sides would have understood that. It is, as it has always been, and always will be in my opinion.
NZ should build more statues and have the new ones and old ones all have context.
I don’t give a damn about slave traders or colonial or royal statutes but burning flags on WW 2 memorials and vandalizing Ww2 memorials on the aniversary of d day was a disgrace and the left will lose the public if it keeps up. Stay away from WW 1 & 2, criticize Churchill all you want he deserves much of it hes a much more interesting figure than the romanticized view of him when you look at him fully but don’t vandalize and burn flags of world war monuments on the 75th anniversary of D-Day, because when it comes to WW1 and WW2 even non political people rival American republicans for patriotism because least we forget what those poor buggers went through and what our ancestors sacrificed.
Wow. If all you see in European past is injustice and racism that needs to be rectified, that is sad. That means you do not see anything in art, philosophy, mathematics architecture, no good authors- and the list goes on. I pulled my son out of his High School because we were notified by e-mail that all the kids were to wear black t-shirts and also bring a gold coin to stand in solidarity with “Black Lives Matter,” on Wednesday. Are they Joking? Tell me when New Zealand schools and the Ministry of Education insisted on donating to foreign political groups? Will we see a Free Palestine march the following day? I do give a damn about statues because they are art. A living man created them and it shows how our style and taste changes, but yeah rip it down, burn it up. I do not stand with violence, burning public businesses, private property, rape or murder. I will not justify tor condone the violence no matter how noble the cause.
@ Angie Marino. The schools in NZ are now part of the problem, instead of being non political they are political on steroids.
Each week they seem to waste copious amounts of time involving kids into the latest fashionable cause…
sadly there is so much time allocated for fundraising and solidarity with the latest cause that many kids now can’t read and write or critically think and are expected to agree with every media movement, woke thought and group think that gains media attention on a large scale, and of course, for neoliberalism, teaching them to make sure they pay the expected gold coin donation to those causes…
The specifics of learning anything real is considered old fashioned, learning ‘real’ stuff is now optional in NZ schools, and learning the nuts and bolts that make up the foundation for critical thinking, is relegated to the parents and private tutors…
As Martyn Luther said,
“To save man from the morass of propaganda, in my opinion, is one of the chief aims of education.”
“Education must enable one to sift and weigh evidence, to discern the true from the false, the real from the unreal, and the facts from the fiction.”
Black Lives matter, might be a great cause, but police brutality in the US is prevalent across all the races… and more white people are killed by police than black people… The slogan is catchy, but long term seems to create division instead of creating something uniting, such as end police brutality without consequences for all races.
Angie I take it that includes wars.
I have my chainsaw ready for a couple of statues of Maori slave owners.
Waste the Chainsaw and Pakeha have been burning and chopping down maori artifacts since arriving after 1840 you think your act of white nationalist would make any difference??? And this pakeha trait of focusing on the lurid and exaggerating the extreme when it comes to Maori is the cancer that maori detest which is another reason why maori want these venerated concrete slabs gone.
Stephen-Of course it won’t make a difference, how could it? People care more about concrete slabs then they do about the very real slave trade in north Africa, or the war in Afghanistan. The massive slaughter in Yemen and so on. Where is your love for the oppressed protestors in Hong Kong. No it takes a smart phone and virtue signaling from American intel agencies and away you plebs go. Blaming children for crimes from 200 years ago is monstrous and grotesque, but here we are. “An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.” And believing this is considered “white nationalist” is just mind blowing to me.
Beautifully put Angie.
The British colonial project is a history of war crime after war crime:
The Dark Side of British History You Weren’t Taught in School | George Monbiot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpsA4zMtB8M
Skep Kim
16 hours ago
A few years ago we went to see some of these men and women who fought the British.
I’m 32 and I’ve met a man who still has many good years left who was castrated by the British and was willing to relive it by telling us about it.
The true legacy of Christopher Columbus: ‘Western Civilisation’ | George Monbiot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtBKDMN2U4s
”
dukadar o’dear
1 year ago
Wayne Mc kenna
The famine in Ireland was rooted in waves of previous land grabbing by English and Scottish settlers.
The Plantations of Munster and Ulster and the genocide by the Parliamentarians after the Regicide of Charles I drove the native people into marginal land.
Even on marginal land they were serfs.
Cromwell was put under a lot of pressure by his colleagues to wipe out or deport the entire native population.
The bigger landlords opposed this because they knew that they would need labourers, so about 500,000 people survived.
The potatoe and especially a variety called the ‘Lumper” proved easy to grow even on poor land.
The Irish population grew to 8 million between the 1680s and the 1840’s.
Unfortunately the dominant potatoe variety was not resistant to the blight of the 1840s and with no backup resources available to the poor, the result was catastrophic.
The same blight hit N East Ulster and Scotland yet there was no famine in these regions because the Protestant tenant farmers had a much better deal from their Protestant landlords than did the native tenants.
It’s a long and complicated story but the key words would include Land grabbing, Displacement, Feckless Landlords, Dire Poverty and Monculture among the natives, and finally a freak natural event that brought the whole house down. “
While I can see logic in Martyn’s suggestions there needs to be an allowance for the context & values at the time those people lived. While it is true that the first settlers (some of them anyway) stole the land & gained an important financial advantage there are many more European descendants who did not benefit from that injustice to the Maori people. Yes the European descendants do better than the Maori people & work is still needed to improve the living conditions, participation in better jobs & education for them but I fail to see that pulling down every statue or changing every place name with dubious credentials will achieve that. Christianity has a more enlightened approach (Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent) and we would get a better result if we took account of all the circumstances before changing things.
The Romans who wrote the new testament had a political purpose that worked well for them bringing in Rome enormous wealth and subduing the subjects..
Well I have a differing POV. Why are we still venerating concrete Idols that promote white exceptionalism? We see why Germany doesn’t have a statue of Hitler now do we. And this BS about erasing history is coming from a PAKEHA perception who talks about the celtic race being here before MAORI. White people in NZ couldn’t give a rats ass about NZ history and haven’t taken the slightest interest but now all of a sudden there are voices claiming that we should preserve these outdated symbols of white exceptionalism as to not erase history????? Give me break
You sound like a simple racist.
Who cares what you think?
No Stephen I think people want a bit of clarity and consistency. I am fully in favour of a full and frank discussion of our nation’s history even if it means we will have to hear some very unpleasant truths.
But what I am asking is why are some willing to tear down monuments and legacies of some but not others based solely on the race of the subject? Especially so when the deeds are of such a greater scale.
And what are you on about with pre Maori Celtic races?
The Crimes of Winston Churchill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxFaWrvgneQ
Cian Ryan
1 year ago
You left out the Black and Tans that he sent into Ireland, basically causing irreparable damage to the country and war that lasted a near century.
Lets tear down the statues… great when making a statement! Sarcasm.
China Removes Antique Statues From Tibetan Monastery
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibetan_statues-20070111.html
Statue of ‘racist’ Gandhi removed from University of GhanaMonument installed two years ago taken away in middle of night amid controversy over Gandhi’s views about Africans
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/14/racist-gandhi-statue-removed-from-university-of-ghana
China Destroys Buddhist Statue Carved in Cliff
https://www.visiontimes.com/2019/03/21/china-destroys-buddhist-statue-carved-in-cliff.html
Top 10 Controversial Statues Around The World
https://listverse.com/2018/10/10/top-10-controversial-statues-around-the-world/
Firdos Square statue destruction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firdos_Square_statue_destruction
Personally see statues more as a piece of history and perhaps updating the plaques with a modern version of the current thinking is more appropriate that destroying the artworks.
Art is history and history should be kept, not erased.
Also knowing history is what keeps people from repeating mistakes… neoliberalism hates history and knowledge and their their success is to turn those who are against them, into their soldiers and actually behaving the same way…..
Funny how black lives matter is now in the world headlines.. I guess black lives did not quite capture the headlines during the Obama years which seem to show more deaths in police custody, but now the concept of racism, is used to increase neoliberalism’s hold and remove democracy around the world….
For example Obama was in power – January 20, 2009 – January 20, 2017 and there were more deaths in police custody. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States
And instead of black lives matter (which while valid) analysis shows that more white people died at the hands of law enforcement than those of any other race.
So the problem seems to be the methods and training of the police officers which needs to change!
The racism part, is different part of the US police brutality, because all races are being killed by US police officers!
Do Chinese lives matter as well, because the Chinese government has the highest number of executions in the world and executes more people that the rest of the world combined!
Due to lack of scrutiny, it is also impossible to work out how many people are actually dying in police custody in China, but we do know that China executes the most people in the world by a long margin, and have re-education camps based on race.
“Most executions worldwide take place in Asia. China is the world’s most active death penalty country; according to Amnesty International, China executes more people than the rest of the world combined per annum.[17] In Iran and Saudi Arabia, the numbers of executions are also very high. In North Korea, the state utilizes the death penalty against high-level criminals and those suspected of committing “grave” offences. Of the 12 countries with a “very high” Human Development Index which practice executions, 10 are in Asia: Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country
Xinjiang re-education camps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps
I’m just pointing out the reality for the woke, who like to join easy protests without actually looking at the facts of who might be behind the current fashionable protests, rather than based on needs of all those being killed in police custody and the races being executed/detained by governments.
Execution numbers need to be viewed on a per capita basis.
Incarcerations rates similarly.
NZ’s incarceration rates per capita are well above China’s
Beware of US propaganda about Chinese “re-education ” camps/
Do a bit more digging I suggest.
Before the Pakeha arrived on the scene …and he got their guns …Te Rauparaha burned out , slaughtered, captured , enslaved and ….ate some of my ancestors!
…but I dont support taking down his memorial…he was a great Chief and deserves to be remembered for his feats and daring and cunning and bravery! He is part of New Zealand’s history.
….in fact some Maori Chiefs signed the Treaty because they were sick of Maori tribal wars against other Maori tribes:
…the fate of the Moriori at the hands of Taranaki tribes was not pretty;
Hundreds of years ago, the Moriori of the Chatham Islands took a solemn vow of peace known as Nunuku’s Law.
This relative peace was shattered in 1835 when Māori of the Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama tribes, both from Taranaki, arrived in the Chatham. Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama immediately began killing and enslaving the Moriori people. Although Moriori outnumbered them almost two to one, they chose to obey Nunuku’s Law and did not fight back. Approximately 300 were killed, and the rest were enslaved. The Moriori decision to uphold this sacred law in the face of Māori aggression in 1835 had tragic consequences. Moriori were slaughtered, enslaved, and dispossessed of their lands. Nevertheless, the Moriori people survived.
https://teara.govt.nz/en/moriori
The Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama tribes, both from Taranaki, came to Whanganui a Tara Ati Awa, Ngati Toa all with guns and wiped out many along the way. They also drove several of the tribes around the area South, or around the coast and into the Wairarapa. White men’s guns were a tragedy for many.
Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama used a European ship to take them to the Chathams. They were perhaps no longer welcome in Whanganui a Tara.
Te Tiriti gives no protection to the Moriori.
CrossTalk Bullhorns, QUARANTINE EDITION: Wokist cult
https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/491799-racism-issue-working-class/
We are witnessing the rise of a new secular religion and it is called Wokism. At this moment in its short history, its goal is to end racism. Why? Well, everything is now considered racist! The believers in this cult demand obedience and self-criticism. But we are never told how racism is to be eradicated or how it helps serve the needs of working people of all colors.
CrossTalking with Joti Brar & George Szamuely.
I wish people commenting on The Daily Blog were brave enough to use their real names. Its just a bit of a joke reading all these opinions on something so tragic and monumentally monstrous as racism and colonial history by a bunch of anonymous keyboard warriors. Stand up for what you believe please, and own it. Otherwise you are all no better than the faceless social media rabble ranting on in the wilderness.
Is that your REAL name?…because you are not really contributing constructively to the debate…just dissing the contributors and contributions
Thanks Red Buzzard – it seems the pure only live a part-life. If you can get away with voicing opinions that many people don’t want to face and not be on bad terms with family, work mates, drinking buddies, sports friends, the boss, your partner, your sisters, brothers and more distant relatives, your in-laws, your neighbours, or embarrass your children, then you aren’t really a part of the community. Things should be said and even discussed in moderate tones, but an individual not using a pseudonym may have to sacrifice their happy times for it, and if it is done for the community’s benefit, that is a sad return for effort.
So Greywarbler, you’re saying that people should be living their lives as hypocrites. Hmmm, interesting. Says a lot about how committed you are to your words. Living double lives, living in fear of speaking out, in fear of ridicule or causing offence…hiding behind a mask…this is what traitors, spies and informants do, undercover cops. Appeasing the ignorant, accomodating the clowns, tolerating the indifferent. Oh, its ok, you express yourself online and nobody knows who you are or what credentials you have for being taken seriously with anything you say.
Does anyone out there read the Daily Blog….of importance I mean?
Obviously Paul Judge is an exception
Yes it is, and I stand publicly by my statements, as does Martyn Bradbury and a couple of others on this blog site….but not you Red Buzzard. Frankly, I can’t take seriously the opinions of anonymous commentators anymore, they are only valuable as pure amusement.
@ Paul Judge
What people say is more important than who they are in dialogue and dialectic
Well, with your name (as an example) you might be a porn star! How does that help anything?
love it Martyn!
and i love Tama Iti’s call to put them all in a racism museum.
imagine the school field trips!
and this in a tweet from NIck Estes:
Historian here: tearing down a statue is not erasing history. Putting up a statue on land whose original caretakers you can’t name is.
NOTE: Tearing down and beheading statues and copying USA mayhem will not help Jacinda win the Election!….nor does it have the support of Winston Peters NZF and his largest MAORI led Party!
…mayhem a la USA will suit the Nacts down to the ground !
…it also suits those privileged white boys who want mayhem diversions to keep their economic privilege …and keeps their leadership status by being the best at ultra -leftism…(so it suits both the right wing and the ultra-leftists…and conveniently takes the eye off the ball which is present day socio-economic inequality for New Zealanders)
…will another Nact Government be in the best interests for present day low socio -economic class Maori and Pakeha ?…who have already had their rights to NZ housing eroded by nine years of jonkey Nact Government?
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