GUEST BLOG: The Lockdown with Bryan Bruce Day 30: The fallacy being promoted by philistines.

1. Well said.This really needs to be spelt out to right wing commentators like Amy Brooke, tucked away safely in idyllic countryside, seemingly using the implications of this horrendous pandemic as an opportunity to take pot shots at PM Ardern.

   Amy aka Agnes-Mary Brooke doesn’t appear to me to know or understand what she’s talking about criticising restrictions on coronovirus sufferers’ visitors viz:

   “Very few New Zealanders will be anything like comfortable with Jacinda Ardern’s government policy, which, while ostentatiously promoting well-being and kindness, denies the lonely and dying elderly in our rest homes and hospitals from being with those they have spent their lives cherishing.”

   This sanctimony may be the epitome of self-centred solipsism, but the fact remains that regular sort of mums like me would not want our children exposed to any sort of risk, and their presence at my sick bed would worry, rather than comfort me. They – and the wider community -have to remain forefront in my mind. Chances are I’d be fairly zonked out anyway, but all my family know that I have no problem with dying alone, because I’ve told them so.

   Brooke wouldn’t matter, except that she urges her followers to write and protest about this to Winston Peters, and she even provides contact details and instructions on how to do this.

   I have to see this as a spiteful attempt to tie up valuable time and resources, because govt policy is not going to suddenly change because of keyboarders whose opinions transgress the common good upon which govt health policy is currently based.

   Thank you for talking about values.

   • Snow White: “Brooke wouldn’t matter…

     Heh! I doubt whether any commenters here – except you and me – have ever heard of Agnes-Mary Brooke. Or whatever moniker she goes by now. I don’t even know which outlets publish her, or if she is obliged to depend upon blogsites to air her views. I can’t be bothered searching her out.

     However. She may be old and crotchety, but it doesn’t follow that, on this issue, she’s wrong.

     For various complex reasons, neither of us was able to be with our parents when they died. It’s something that we both regret, and that regret never goes away, even though it’s long years ago.

     We wouldn’t wish that on our offspring. And we know that they feel the same. A fortiori, I want said offspring to be with me when I fall off the perch. As does my partner.

     In our view, the strictures against relatives sitting with, or visiting, those dying with (or of) coronavirus have tipped from caution into callousness. If there is a risk, it is for relatives to decide whether or not they wish to take it. Healthcare staff ought to have refrained from preventing access, no matter how well-intentioned it may have been.

     “I have to see this as a spiteful attempt to tie up valuable time and resources…”

     Isn’t such contact an essential part of the democratic process? It’s the citizens’ democratic right, surely, to contact MPs about anything of this sort.

2. On the topic of philistines

   NZ seems to have had it’s own cultural revolution which nobody noticed, but seems to have left this country full of glorified peasants eking out a living at the local supermarket and a Kleptocracy full of their own self importance while expelling from NZ through government policy, intellectuals, experts, freedom of speech and the skilled middle class.

   NZ’s bloodless but still effective, Cultural revolution from 1984 – present

   China, Millions were accused of being members of the Five Black Categories and were persecuted, suffering public humiliation, imprisonment, torture, hard labor, seizure of property, and sometimes execution or harassment into suicide.

   NZ, Dirty politics against NZ politicians, intellectuals and scientists
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/81194202/public-health-researchers-fighting-back-against-lobbyists) Surprise, surprise – the bloody pigs clear themselves over illegal Hager raid
   https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/08/20/surprise-surprise-the-bloody-pigs-clear-themselves-over-illegal-hager-raid/ Cunliffe: grubbiest election campaign yet
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10425677/Cunliffe-grubbiest-election-campaign-yet

   China, Intellectuals were considered the “Stinking Old Ninth” and were widely persecuted; notable scholars and scientists such as Lao She, Fu Lei, Yao Tongbin and Zhao Jiuzhang were killed or committed suicides.

   NZ, New Zealand brain-drain worst in world
   https://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/7973220/New-Zealand-brain-drain-worst-in-world.html
   Statistics New Zealand no longer measuring ‘brain drain’ to Australia
   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/03/statistics-new-zealand-no-longer-measuring-brain-drain-to-australia.html
   (Don’t worry NZ, for every experienced registered nurse or doctor or experienced trade professional leaving NZ we get a nurse support worker/labourer/retail manager/chef plus their love interest and 2 kids coming into NZ, sarcasm, looks great in our neoliberal led and hidden statistics, 1 person out, 4+ people into NZ, and providing more working poor competition to the local work force and beneficiaries!)

   China, Schools and universities were closed with the college entrance exams cancelled.

   NZ – we don’t close universities down we just profit from students without noticing if they are attending their courses or not
   New Zealand university student lay dead in room for nearly two months
   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/25/new-zealand-university-student-lay-dead-in-room-for-nearly-two-months
   No need to know anything to pass!
   NZ lecturer says half of international students in their class failed for cheating, universities turning blind eye
   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nz-lecturer-says-half-international-students-in-their-class-failed-cheating-universities-turning-blind-eye
   Student visa fraud: ‘It’s not about education’ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11759352 Widespread fraud found among education agencies representing Indian students https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/81386128/widespread-fraud-found-among-education-agencies-representing-indian-students Student visa scam: Company provided info for five years https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/363084/student-visa-scam-company-provided-info-for-five-years

   Banning freedom of speech has become part of NZ universities agenda!
   Massey Vice-Chancellor bans Don Brash
   https://croakingcassandra.com/2018/08/07/massey-vice-chancellor-bans-don-brash/
   AUT denies cancelling Tiananmen event over China govt pressure
   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395573/aut-denies-cancelling-tiananmen-event-over-china-govt-pressure

   China, Over 10 million urban intellectual youths were sent to the countryside in the Down to the Countryside Movement.

   NZ, Replacing the intellectuals with liquor stores and tobaccos factories around NZ… all now essential services https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120518508/coronavirus-no-need-to-stock-up-on-beer-and-wine–its-considered-essential https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/120654996/coronavirus-cigarettes-are-essential-mbie-confirms

   Meth pandemic!
   Meth, coke and MDMA: Police reveal how the drugs are in our wastewater
   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/04/meth-coke-and-mdma-police-reveal-how-the-drugs-are-in-our-wastewater.html Precurser Meth drugs being manufactured in Wuhan, in a state sponsored Chinese factory. https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/121121233/coronavirus-cartels-are-scrambling-as-covid19-hits-global-drug-trade

   China, Red Guards also destroyed historical relics as well as artifacts, and ransacked cultural and religious sites.
   NZ, Loss of libraries is a symptom of Auckland University’s decline
   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12034770
   Bauer offered magazines to Government for a dollar, but says it got no clear response
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/120787598/bauer-offered-magazines-to-government-for-1-but-says-it-got-no-clear-response
   NZ On Air has released details of its latest funding decisions for locally made drama and comedy productions.
   https://mch.govt.nz/latest-nz-air-drama-and-comedy-funding-decisions-released
   RNZ propose dumping Concert programme and targeting ‘youth’
   https://yournz.org/2020/02/08/rnz-propose-dumping-concert-programme-and-targeting-youth/
   Gun-toting YouTube sensation whose hit video ‘Jail’ has been viewed more than 13 million times faces deportation for his role in a grubby driving licence scam
   https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7258975/Gun-toting-YouTubeer-faces-deportation-role-driving-licence-scam-shoots-fame.html

3. And here’s another moron, clearly a hater of our government…and hard right.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121254612/coronavirus-business-owner-pockets-150000-from-government-wage-subsidy-and-hes-not-paying-it-back

   • Well said Bert – surprised there’s not more backlash to this. If ever there was an example of offspring from the neoliberal policies over the last 35 years he has to be it.

4. Another excellent post Bryan..
   Thank you.

5. Well said, Bryan.

   ‘I say to the morally bankrupt among us that the neo-liberal economics and politics of selfishness is a SOCIAL virus’

   In the past I have likened orthodox economics (and particularly neoliberalism) to a cancer, insofar as left unchecked it will ultimately kill its host.

   The pre-Covid-19 economic system -promoted by governments around the world, including that of NZ- was operating on completely unsustainable [in the long term] foundations, the major aspects of which were:

   1. The conversion of fossil fuels into atmospheric carbon dioxide which has already overheated the Earth faster than any natural event in geological history, and if allowed to continued will result in the Earth becoming largely or completely uninhabitable for most vertebrate species, including humans.

   2. Stripping the natural world of resources until they are severely or entirely depleted.

   3. Converting natural landscapes with infinite long-term sustainability into industrial landscapes with no long-term sustainability: this may be in the form of converting forested land and pasture into urban dystopia, or converting jungle or savannah into monoculture plantations etc.

   4. Producing vast quantities of food by unsustainable methods involving the large-scale use of fossil fuels, the use of chemicals and the use of synthetic fertilisers

   5. Causing the decimation of number or actual extinction of species with important roles to play in the intricate web of life -particularly insects, which are undergoing an insect apocalypse, with dire implications. As Einstein pointed out, “we disappear 4 years after the bees disappear.”

   6. Creation of money out of thin air and the charging of interest on that money.

   7. Encouraging over-population (way beyond the carrying capacity of the land) in order to create increasing numbers of consumers.

   8. Generating humungous quantities of waste which was becoming ever more problematical to deal with (that is in addition to CO2, which cannot be dealt with by humans and was vastly overwhelming the natural systems that recycle it).

   The ridiculousness of orthodox economic is all summed up by the absurd mainstream notion of ‘Infinite Growth on a Finite Planet’.

   Well, we are incredibly close to hitting the wall on ‘infinite growth’ (much as predicted by the Limits to Growth group in the 1970s, with 2030 being the year energy depletion and waste overwhelm the system), and any attempt to ‘restart the economy’ simply puts us back into the position of sacrificing our children’s/grandchildren’s futures to satisfy present day short term wants.

6. People die each year from cancers, heart disease, strokes, etc. However, these diseases are not contagious and therefore lockdowns would not provide a reasonable defense against them. However a lockdown does provide a defense, and at present it seems to be the only defense, against covid-19. Therefore I think we should see it through to the end.

   • “Therefore I think we should see it through to the end.” The end of what?

7. the issue is not health versus economy… its about questioning the sources of information that governments are having to make decisions on. in the beginning noone was sure what we were dealing with, including health professionals, scientists. so a lockdown was a reasonable strategy. but we also need to critically exxamine sources of information from those who would benefit greatly from enforced social control, vaccinations etc. there is a bigger picture:
   https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/25/say-it-aint-so-consortium-news-deploys-the-cias-conspiracy-theory-meme/
   we need to be able to question without being dismissed as being anti health or anti economy. there is middle ground.
   and when it turns out that this was no worse in death rates than influenza in other years, then we thank our government for being careful with our health and we carry on….

8. Can driving a car, lung cancer, heart attacks etc be ‘caught’ off someone infected with the ‘disease’? Bar maybe a rogue driver (killing you), the answer is NO. So comparing death rates of such actions, with the end result of a successful ‘lockdown’ is like comparing Apples with Oranges.

   Yes a price does need to be put on life if you want to go back to work early and take more risk.

   Agreed the Govt (cruelly) does that all too often. The drugs e.g. was spot on. BUT that doesn’t means Q.E.D we should go back to work.

   If in doubt extend the lockdown, don’t lift it early on the off chance of making some money.

   And the argument about poverty causing deaths is correct, BUT WHY wasn’t that used as a reason NOT to have ‘trickle down’ and harsh economic policies e.g ‘bene bashing’ (as they need a reason/stick to get into work)?

   In consistent arguments aren’t logical proof.

   Be careful using other countries not having as hard a lockdown as an e.g. You have to compare their culture also. i.e. Scandinavian countries ‘naturally’ use social distancing and helping others less fortunate. Sadly we no longer do either.

   IMHO there has always been the simple answer available, but sadly almost NO Govt wants to do the right thing, just look to be doing the right thing.

   e.g. The Czech republic made it mandatory to wear a face mask in public. They have a great R0. About 5-8 times better than the UK. So that is a simple solution. I guess BAD planning for epidemics was the reason we don’t do this. Maybe a run down of the medical system recently took that option away?

   Use the Malaria treatment (PLUS zinc and zyhromycin (sp??) that China and many others are using as a cure, ASAP. All the BAD science reports saying it doesn’t work and requoted, have ALL turned out to be non-sense science. As if the Pharmaceutical companies, backed by the prostitute media, don’t want a cure that can’t be sold at a HUGE profit to them, to be used. A bit like Vitamin C and Cannabis.

   So in the absence of the two above ideas, then Jacinda did a GREAT job, compared to the death cult capitalist elsewhere in the world.

   PLUS this is NOT over yet. It is still going around the world and adapting. So lets save the ‘I told you so’s’ until the end and history has been honestly (not politically) written.

9. Seem’s to me that at the end of the day, something has occurred that has got the attention of the banks.
   The result of this is to have the entire planet stop what it’s doing and hide from a flu…..
   After only a few weeks, the atmosphere , the wild life, the communication has responded exponentially .
   This has been a gift that has given us all a chance to change direction and make life better.
   People are hurting.
   The vast bulk of the people that are hurting are the people that can’t choose,
   It is now that we reassess our core values and goals. The way we do business . The way we live. The planet we would like to leave our children.
   We have to readdress the money and the way we exist.

   Kia Kaha
   Hamish.

10. “I notice it is often the right wing doom brokers among us who are leading the “let’s get back to work NOW!” chant….”

    Right-wing doom brokers? Hah! Nope: it may be such people – if they actually exist – but it’s also people like me. I”m an old lefty, in just that age bracket described patronisingly by the PM as “vulnerable”. No. I am not. And I’ll not have the woke left telling me what to do – or more critically, what not to do. Was I asked for my opinion? I was not. I’m horrified at the wrecking of the economy by what’s in effect house arrest; our offspring have been differentially affected by the wide-scale economic damage, never mind the psychological effects of prolonged incarceration. And for what? A handful of cases and even fewer deaths.

    The other thing that’s astonished and disturbed me is how willingly NZers have just accepted the crimping of our liberties. Nobody should be surprised that totalitarian regimes such as the Nazis manage so easily to take power. And the snitching: Christ…. the Stasi rides again, huh? And isn’t informing on people just the sort of thing that commentators claim goes on in places such as China, and we’re all expected to deplore it? How come it’s ok, because the PM sees it as being in a good cause, but not ok when Chinese people do it? If they do…

    I’ve been delighted to see that there are protests against the lockdown in France, Germany (perhaps they learned something from the Nazis?) and the US, god bless ’em. There should have been protests here as well.

    Recently, I heard on Morning Report an interview with the PM. She was challenged by the interviewer as to why the rules in Australia are so much looser than ours, yet the rates and deaths there are very similar to ours. Her response? Australian society is “less vulnerable” than ours (as if it didn’t have the elderly, the poor and sick, Aborigines, Maori and Pacific people). Say what? said the interviewer, who pressed her to elaborate on the ways in which NZ society is more vulnerable. She adduced our Maori and Pacific communities. No mention of the over-60s, or whatever the hell age group it is where “vulnerability” starts. No surprises that the interviewer didn’t notice this.

    This article sums up pretty neatly, how I feel about being characterised as “vulnerable”:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/opinion/121259773/please-dont-tag-me-vulnerable

    “The public health measures that have been put in place by our government has kept the death rate low and SAVED countless lives.

    How do we know?

    You only have to look at how this Covid 19 virus is ravaging America right now for example to know what it capable of doing if left unchecked.”

    It’s pretty obvious now that – like many other viruses – the coronavirus spreads and infects more people in the winter; and the colder the winter, the worse such viruses are. Thus what we’ve seen in the northern hemisphere. The US is coming out of winter; it has no public health service in the way in which we do here and in Australia. Many Americans have no access to healthcare because they have no health insurance; poverty levels there are at least as bad as here, probably worse. From what I’ve seen, the numbers of homeless there are orders of magnitude greater there than they were when we visited in the late 1990s.

    The US coronavirus statistics -up to yesterday: US population 2020 (est) 331,002,651. Stats as of today: cases 960,896, deaths: 54,265. Expressed as percentages in relation to the population as a whole, that’s as follows: Cases 0.29%, dead 0.016%.

    Just for comparison, US influenza cases and deaths 2018-19 season “Conclusion. CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.Jan 8, 2020”

    For NZ, a more apt comparison would be with Australia: it’s in the same hemisphere, therefore seasons at the same time of the year as we do here. We already know that the figures for all of Australia are broadly similar to ours Here are the stats for Queensland: population 5.071 million (so just a bit larger than for the whole of NZ), total cases as of today, 27 April: 1033; deaths 6. I’m assuming that you know the NZ stats, so I won’t repeat them here.

    I have family in both Queensland and NSW. One relative is in northern NSW, just over the border from Queensland, where they lived until very recently. The rules in both states are much looser than here: my relative can still play golf (only 2 participants, separate carts), tennis (singles only); go to their doctor or dentist in Queensland (provided they have a letter from dentist/GP); get a haircut; get takeaways; go to friends/have friends over for coffee, provided they observe physical distancing rules; get the electrician in to do some maintenance on their house. They can and do zip around in their car. And – as anybody who’s been there knows – that part of Queensland from the Sunshine Coast right down to the NSW border – is chock-full of older retired people. The population of Brisbane is now larger than that of Auckland. Yet the state has fewer cases than we do. And 6 deaths. Now: tell me which country has got it right?

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