Chosen To Rule? What Sort Of Christian Is Chris Luxon?

88
5243

CHRIS LUXON has some explaining to do. He has been identified as an evangelical Christian, which, if you’ll pardon the religious cliché, covers a multitude of sins. That’s why I believe Chris Luxon owes New Zealanders a working definition of evangelical Christianity – and how he intends to practice it.

A private matter? Well, that  might be true if Luxon was a person moving into private life. Clearly, however, that is not the case. Luxon has opted to become an even more public person than he was as Air New Zealand’s CEO. The core motivations of public persons are not matters to be evaded, they are matters to be explicated, elucidated and explained.

What, then, is generally understood by the term Christian evangelism? At its core, evangelism is about the active spreading of Christ’s teachings – especially among those who are ignorant of his message. For a politician to identify himself as an evangelical Christian is, therefore, a matter of considerable importance.

If such politicians are genuine in their self-characterisation, then they will take every opportunity their public office provides to proselytise on behalf of their faith. They will also feel obliged to bear witness against beliefs and practices they believe to be evil. To do all they can to save the souls of those who are in the grip of sin. Christian evangelism is, above all else, faith in action.

It is, therefore, disingenuous (to say the least) for Luxon to present his evangelical convictions as having relevance only to himself and the congregation of the Upper Room Church to which he belongs. The very name of his faith community argues against this claim.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

The “Upper Room” mentioned in the gospels is the room to which Jesus and his disciples repaired on the night of his arrest. In biblical tradition, it is the location of Christ’s last supper. The Upper Room thus represents the ignition-point of the chain of events that led to Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection. It was Christianity’s first church: Ground Zero, if you like, for Jesus’s universal mission. In the Messiah’s own words:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Does that sound like a private matter? Was the Upper Room really nothing more than the venue for a catered meal for Jesus of Nazareth and a few close friends? Is that it?

Obviously, not. A non-denominational congregation of believers calling themselves The Upper Room Church clearly draw their inspiration from the conviction that, gathered in that celebrated biblical space, were a group of human-beings charged with securing nothing less than the salvation of the whole world. Equally clearly, however, at least some of the church’s members – including Luxon? – are expected to secure the obedience of the nations by using techniques very different from the open preaching of the disciples who left that original Upper Room at Jesus’s side more than 2,000 years ago.

It’s about this point that things begin to get murky. A swift consultation of Wikipedia’s entry on Evangelism reveals the following curious sentence:

Some Christian traditions consider evangelists to be in a leadership position; they may be found preaching to large meetings or in governance roles.

What in the name of all that is good and holy does that mean?

To answer that question it is necessary to go back to the time and place in which groups like The Upper Room came into existence – the United States of America in the 1930s.

It was a time of tremendous social and political upheaval, during which the traditional relationships between those at the summit of society, and those at its base, were challenged in ways that made the ruling elites, business leaders in particular, profoundly uneasy. The Upper Room was founded in 1935 with the objective of disseminating biblical verses highlighting the duty of Christians to obey “the powers that be” and eschew rebelliousness in all its forms.

The following year saw the formation of what came to be known as “The Family”. Established in response to the Seattle General Strike of 1936, The Family gathered together in “Christian fellowship” prominent and powerful politicians, state officials and businessmen, for the purposes of re-establishing the dominion of the godly throughout the USA – a mission which included the destruction of those unnatural instruments of Satan, the trade unions. The Family would grow in strength and power, extending its tendrils of influence through the US capital, drawing-in Congressmen, Senators – even Presidents – to its deeply heretical interpretation of the gospel.

This is what Chris Luxon needs to explain. Does he subscribe to Christ’s “preferential option for the poor”? And, is he committed spiritually to fulfilling Christ’s promise that “the meek shall inherit the earth”? Or, does The Upper Room, like The Family, preach a gospel of worldly wealth and power, in which the Mighty rule by God’s special favour, meaning that all his true servants are bound to do everything they can to further God’s plans for the men and institutions he raises above them?

More specifically, if Luxon should, at some future date, receive an invitation to attend the National Prayer Breakfast, staged annually in Washington DC by The Family, and attended by every President since Dwight Eisenhower (along with a mighty host of foreign potentates, corporate CEOs and lobbyists) will he accept and attend?

Or, has he already done so?

88 COMMENTS

  1. But is Luxton an effective counterweight to the Zero Carbon Act? We should watch closely what the Christian Right do to homosexuals and trans people that launch values that oppress opponents. If it is true that the Christian Right are on the move then homo’s will be the first deviants they go after then we will be the next. Repealing the same sex marriage act will be the same step that beats down our doors. True believers will be told in back rooms away from public scrutiny that bans will have to be passed against activists who want to over rule fascist ideology. Even Christian families would be under threat because a ban serves to widen the split that would tear apart New Zealand. Attacks on homosexuals give the Christian Right an easy target and will give them a taste for victory an make them feel in powered but it is ominous for gays and for us.

  2. Interesting article Chris,
    I just have one question – would you require such an explanation of what a person’s faith means to them from anyone entering public office – Animist, Buddhist, Muslim, Sikh, other ‘types’ of Christian (whatever that means?)? Or is it only ‘evangelical Christians’ that need to explain themselves? If someone was Falan Gong or one of the other newer religious movements, would they have to explain themselves (as the Chinese government might not be so happy if they use their position to publicise religious oppression in China)? If you are Shia do you have to explain your relationship to Iran or can you be taken on your own merits as an individual (which I would argue you can, especially in a democracy like NZ)? If Sunni does that mean another set of explanations?
    All religious movements have an incredibly diverse range of practices, adherents and social / political outcomes.

    So why single out evangelicals?

    • I would demand the same explanation of any politician who publicly identified himself as a member of a proselytising religious faith. Such faiths have a habit of intruding their precepts into politics. These are not always healthy to children and other living things – hence the interest.

    • Chris P, have you ever thought through what a political leader might look like if s/he followed the true teachings of Jesus Christ?

      For a start, such a person would be branded a socialist/communist.

      Jesus was not known for being a staunch ally of the rich and powerful. A fact that got him executed in a very unpleasant way.

      • My sis has to get in her review of the book of Jude before midday tomorrow. Slim as, all aboot ye shall have no gods but me. From the half-brother of Jesus.

        Their nonrecognition of reality from proof makes them friends of the powerful. Crazos, who don’t currently matter here. Amerika!

  3. Jeeze wayne, just what we need in parliament, another god botherer who knows what is best for the Hoi polloi?

  4. At some point in my life I became concerned when I realised that organised Christianity almost always sided with right-wing politics and power structures that perpetuated inequality, injustice, greed and exploitation. As an observation, for many christians, “moral” issues eg sexuality, are more important than actually looking after the poorest in society or ensuring that everyone gets a fair go.

    • Yes, Steve. It’s fine to pay your workers a pittance, just so long as you’re not gay. It’s the gay thing that really gets up God’s nose apparently.

    • Erm ,… not necessarily true.

      There have been many christian’s who definitely DO NOT fall for the American right wing brand of the ‘ prosperity doctrine’.

      Many Americans in fact.

      Many who work in western nations in all manner of social services and many also who give their lives in service to poor foreign community’s when they could have instead been making BIG BUCKS in TV evangelism and the like and consulting with Presidents… the difference is,… we never hear about those people, do we now…

      Yet in this country, we occasionally do,… especially when reports are made to govt’s about poor social conditions to right wing govt’s such as John Keys one.

      The fact that they are ignored by such as the above govt is no failing on their part, – rather an indictment on that particular govt and , – usually , – its neo liberal stance….

    • Anyone preaching punishment for others who, through circumstances out of their control, find themselves in need of support, are seriously outside my scope of ‘good people’

  5. Well, our shiny noggined hero did not join the Greens for example, in his quest for a Parliamentary seat.

    So it seems reasonable to consider the writer’s questions on where Mr Luxon stands answered!

    It was interesting to hear Mr Luxon on RNZ this week wanting to take punitive action against non vaccinating beneficiary parents-that part was believable of course-then he appeared to fall for the “gotcha” and extend his punishment to middle class WFF recipients. What a new boy, but wait, perhaps he was just genuinely “practising what he preaches”…

    An unreconstructed, non self censoring, religious nutter leading the Nats would be so entertaining for politics followers-but-for women, gays, unionists, climate activists and children, look out!

    • … ” An unreconstructed, non self censoring, religious nutter leading the Nats would be so entertaining for politics followers-but-for women, gays, unionists, climate activists and children, look out!”…

      Careful.

      That could easily apply to other’s not of the christian faith.

      So I’d go a little easy on the christian bashing.

      • There is a reasonably well observed separation of Religion and State in this country for good reason, and long may that be the case.

        I am not sounding the alert on more docile Christians, who essentially “keep it in their pants”, no, it is the nutters in my sights, those that actively oppress women and indoctrinate children before they are mature enough to form an independent world view.

        But I take your point, there are a number of Nats who are socially conservative, in their dreams at least…

        • Hmmm yes,… I was actually alluding to other religious faiths apart from Christianity , they all of them have their fair share of nutters, – including in the humanist camp.

  6. He should be given the benefit of the doubt, just like any other New Zealander. I personally think that religion is daft, but we have a nice religious settlement in NZ, where it is a private matter and you can do what you want as long as you leave others alone. If he does try to evangelise in office, his stay will be very short. New Zealanders won’t put up with that.

    • Agreed. Separation of Church and State is of critical importance. Once men in silly hats start governing according to the whims of whatever magical sky wizard they profess to believe in, things can get very ugly, very quickly.

    • One does not have to ‘evangelize’ to get the message across… follow the link to Michael Joseph Savage, in effect,… the very example we all need to extricate ourselves from this appalling neo liberal mess no matter what walk of life you come from.

  7. Ok if Luxon is such an “evangelical” Christian then perhaps he could set a good example by following Christ’s teachings for the wealthy to give their wealth to the poor and THEN follow him.
    Yeah right!
    Like he is going to do that!
    As is recorded in Mark 10:25, Christ said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.
    From my observations, self-styled Christian Evangelists don’t practice what they preach.
    I am not a practising Christian, but I agree with much of what Jesus wanted to achieve and I also respect REAL Christians and hate religious shysters.

    • …’ Mark 10:25, Christ said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich person to enter the kingdom of God ‘…

      Yes now that’s an interesting one.

      In that time fortified city’s had a tax / toll gate whereby those merchants entering a city had to get their camels to kneel and basically shuffle to enter the city to trade. It also gave officials the opportunity to peruse any merchandise entering the city, – if they be weapons or contraband. That was called going through the ‘ eye of the needle’ as the gates were so small.

      If , officials had deemed the origins of those merchants members of hostile nations they were denied entry. So it wasn’t so easy to just roll up and make a buck out of the locals.

      The analogy /parable of course was that the desires of many of the rich or those seeking to enter often surmounted their human spiritual calling… and only sought ‘earthly’ gains.

      New International Version

      Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” This was in response to a wealthy young man who asked Jesus what he should do. Unfortunately the young man backed away reckoning the challenge too great.

      Jesus was the original socialist.

      And I do not think he particularly endorses rich TV evangelists with gold chains around their necks and the latest luxury cars as evidence of the above willingness to comply . It certainly is not the criteria. However,… who are we to judge? For all we know those same quietly donate and finance major social programs that enhance peoples lot in life.

      I’ve long since gone past the point of judging every wealthy christian as denying their beliefs and being an incorrigible money grubber… some are the genuine article and do much good for many who would not have stood a chance otherwise,… and we virtually never hear about all that.

      • I appreciate your take on this. As with a lot of things in The Bible, they are more figurative than factual.
        I don’t necessarily judge all wealthy Christians the same.
        But what bothers me is those who pontificate about how Jesus Christ did this and that, and then they go and do the opposite – build themselves luxury mansions, hide their money from the tax man in Cayman Islands bank accounts and bonk their secretaries.

        • Yep , and from Christians to ‘morally upright’ humanists, hypocrisy is a common theme running throughout humankind would be more accurate to say that , that is the case…

          Look at the so called ‘ workers paradise’ in communist China or Russia in earlier times… leaders ‘representing the workers’…. then living in opulence while programs of genocide or ridiculous edicts meant the starvation of millions for example… I would suggest some of those American TV evangelists pale into insignificance by contrast, – though they may still be hypocrites.

  8. Kia ora Chris
    Christianity, like Islam and socialism, covers a multitude of sins as you have pointed out. But if you think about it, you will realize that the problem with Christopher Luxon is not that he is a Christian, but that he is a politician.
    Just like Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble, Helen Clark, Jenny Shipley and all the other politicians who have disrupted and degraded the lives or ordinary New Zealanders in pursuit of an ideology devoid of human compassion.
    National or Labour, evangelical Christian or left-wing secularist, it makes little difference. Politicians will do almost anything to gain power, and once in power will act ruthlessly to achieve their objects.
    I suggest that Chris Luxon as an “evangelical Christian” National Party Prime Minister would follow pretty much the same sort of policies as Jacinda Ardern and Grant Robertson. Like Bill English before him, he would be unable to impose his religious beliefs upon the National party caucus.
    If you are trying to make the case that New Zealanders would be safer and better off with Ardern, Robertson and Peters than with Luxon, you have your work cut out.

  9. Luxon will be one voice/vote in a caucus of 50-60 people, all of whom want more than anything to be re-elected next time. NZers have an antipathy to the overtly-religious.
    So don’t over-state his possible impact.

    MPs who want to push their religious views beyond what the public want to hear are very rare.

    • Yet taking the case of Michael Joseph Savage, New Zealanders at the time were more than happy to reap the benefits of his christian motivations,… as they would be today if it was to be duplicated… why therefore,… the often open hostility towards those who profess a christian / social conscience?

      Cherry picking perhaps?

      Fair enough.

      If one is so inclined.

      But broad sweeping generalizations just because one has a particular antipathy towards Christians by certain life experiences they unfortunately have encountered is hardly a premise to dismiss them all and cast them all in the same mould…

    • Ada – It is what goes on out of the public eye which is significant here, not what the voters think they see.

      Read Nicky Hager’s, “Dirty Politics,” or “The Hollow Men” for extensive and well referenced documentation of this.

  10. Sermons by Upper Room’s founder, Craig Heilmann, have been deleted from the church’s web page. Simultaneously, so has a decade of Pastor Heilmann’s tweets. Obviously, someone somewhere doesn’t want us to know what is preached at the Upper Room, or what Heilmann regularly opined on social media. Russell Brown got to the tweets and sermons before they were deleted. Brown reports that Heilmann is fond of far-right conspiracies, featuring left-wing boogie-men such as George Soros and Saul Alinsky. Heilmann’s tweets and sermons show that he’s not to keen on climate change science or Greta Thunberg. Suggesting that Thunberg is Soro’s creature. Heilmann also reportedly (again from Russell Brown) thinks Brexit and MAGA are “really good”, that Trump is the victim of a conspiracy by “the administrative state”. Heilmann also goes off-reservation with the usual, squalid, hard-right conspiracy hoo-hah which characterizes Hillary Clinton as a mastermind involved in child trafficking networks. In short, if you like the happy clapping, Hillsong attending, evangelical PM of Australia then you’re gonna love Luxton. There’s also a video of Heilmann talking about present-day prophesy and speaking in tongues.

  11. A very good post from Chris Trotter.

    The points highlighted need to be put to the test in question form to Chris Luxon, Vision NZ and anyone else claiming to be staunch followers of a particular religious group, deity, sect etc, whether mainstream or otherwise. Voters have every right to know how religious beliefs will impact their candidate’s political perspective and influence decision making.

    Then it’s up to the people to make up their mind and decide.

  12. The mix of his sect’s mission statement, and being parachuted in by Key, isn’t particularly promising.
    And he looks horrible.

    • I agree with the first part of your post but not the second.

      After I have woken up from a few days of being on a bender I look rather horrible. Yet I am still able to write in a manner fairly lucid and to the point. However my hair may be disheveled and I may be in need of a shave…

      But the body beautiful is not the issue here… as one Sir Winston Churchill was a phenomenal drinker, of big appetite , obese, hardly attractive and yet shepherded his people through England’s darkest hours…all on 5 hours sleep per night on average.

      But your real point is correct: who is this man and what does he REALLY stand for?

      THAT,… is the question sayeth Shakespeare !!!

      • Wild Katipo – Point taken – and it’s really great you’ve got enough hair to be disheveled.

        Have you considered a career in politics ?

        • Nay, … me greying hair reaches almost to me butt and me mustache and goatee could be mistaken for some wacko American Civil war officer. On both sides. And in that I wont be compromised. I like old fashioned things like straight backed wooden chairs and TV’s without complicated gizmos to change channel , snail mail and handwritten letters.

          And a wee drop for…. ‘medicinal purposes’…

          Still , I guess I could have a wee yarn both with Mr Trump and Mr Putin…but then… Winnie’s better at that than me.

          I can barely handle this newfangled interweb thing as it is…

  13. Seems to me,… this is a job for ,- wait for it, – ( drum roll ) Mickey Joseph Savage .

    Now then , Savage was a christian, and was one of the most popular PM’s we’ve known. Despite the fact he was an Australian. We forgive him.

    But ask yourselves,…. what was it that Savage had or did that marks him out from all these other right wing christian fakes?

    Was it because he actually gave a damn for the working people, the poor , – and translated his christian beliefs into pragmatic and direct action? Ws he not a trade unionist?… one of those ‘ unnatural instruments of Satan’ ?

    In fact he ‘became the chairman of the New Zealand Federation of Labour, known as the “Red Feds”…

    Yet despite his compassion,.. and christian beliefs, did he not also declare war on Nazi Germany and Hitler to fight an evil regime?

    Conversely , did he not also become the ‘architect of the welfare state ‘ in New Zealand?

    Surely that is a juxtaposition in terms right there…

    And yet he also opposed conscription in the First World War… by the same token he also became a ‘leading advocate for increases to pensions and universally free health care ‘… and ‘creation of the Family Allowances Act 1926’…

    He also ‘helped to engineer an alliance between Labour and the Rātana Church, which was gaining a large Māori following in the 1930s’… unlike many neo liberal politicians of today who use Maori as political footballs when required and then abandon them when they are no longer needed…

    Oh yes,… ones interpretation of ones beliefs DOES MATTER.

    It will be interesting to see if Luxon commands any such heights of respect as did Savage,… and albeit Savage being a hard act to follow,… one would expect at least Luxon to have the same sort of social conscience as Savage… and then be able to translate those beliefs into direct action like Savage… but then again, ANYONE following the self centered ideology of neo liberalism just might fine it nigh on impossible to do so, – and at the very least , – an impediment to Christs command to ‘remember the poor always’…

    Something, which in this country for the last 3 decades, has become not only an irrelevancy, – but also a weapon to be used against them in claiming it is their fault because of their poor choices, lack of education etc , – yet all the while, making sure those born into that strata of society have as many obstacles placed in front of them to ensure they will always remain and be locked into a modern day ‘serf’ ,… in servitude to the affluent and the elite.

    I wonder what Michael Joseph Savage would have to say about post 1984, modern day New Zealand if he were here …

    I think his heart would have broken to see what we have degenerated into.

    Michael Joseph Savage – Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Michael_Joseph_Savage

    • Yes indeed, and when the Catholics opposed condoms it did indeed coalesce with Gods command to ” Go forth and multiply’…

      Oh , and perhaps the very ordered manner of society’s who practice marriage is an anathema to the current western trend of ‘anything goes’… however as far as STD’s , costly divorces , children without fathers go and the ensuing costs on our modern society goes… perhaps there is a little something in ” Religion is just a way to control people’s sex and love lives ” …

      Funny how even so called ‘ primitive society’s endorse the institute of marriage, – as opposed to open slather wanton communal orgy’s to produce children and guarantee offspring to look after their elderly when their time comes…Eh.

      Maybe there’s something to being a stodgy old conservative hunter – gatherer society after all….

      • What ever we think about religion is one thing and if we can out that to one side for a secound…, What Luxon if he dosnt know it (and I can not believe that a man capable of rising to the top of Air New Zealand is incapable) has proposed is a radical departure scripture and even the state. For Luxons claim that he is simultaneously Christian and evangelical requires coded language that creates the illusion of the separation between state and religion. The fringe Christian Right is undeniably moving to capture the state, their tool is Luxon. Our only relief is that Luxon is not as skilled as Don Brash.

        • Yes, … and down through the ages there have always been unscrupulous opportunists who have used religion ( not just Christianity ) as a tool and a weapon to shape society to their will.

          This is what has to be guarded against.

          It does not matter if it was a Pope 1000 years ago or an Aztec shaman several hundred years ago. The effects are the same.

          Perhaps the modern equivalent is the typically American neo con religious right wing. Which justifies all manner of murders by stealth , wars, dodgy arms deals and subterfuge in its dealings with foreign policy’s… but that is not limited to the far right wing , either.

          What it gets down to is avarice filled men and women who wield power and can do things because THEY CAN.

          Whether they be Left or Right.

          And currying favour with religious leaders,adopting the facade of that popular religion , yet doing exactly the opposite against the spirit of that particular brand of faith is what they excel in.

          What we need to differentiate is the MOTIVES and END GOALS of these people, and , – seeing if their actions match their words.

          Matthew 7:15-20 New King James Version (NKJV)

          You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

          “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

          Pretty simple, eh.

          • Yeah I can agree its simple. The problem I have with religion is even if Luxon is fundamentally flawed he can still be sustained over a period of time. Now we can expect that if my portrayal of Luxon is accurate then people will start to leave Christianity than will be converted to it. But there are better movements / religions out there that are not so blasphemous. Now that New Zealand has more non-Christians than Christians it’s better to convert voluntarily to the better society. So for example new National Party initiates inherit employee bashing, Iwi vs Kiwi, bene bashing, woman bashing, questioning gays and trans, Y’know low key fascism and so when ever The National Party abandons those first principles only to be reanimated again those principles get weaker.

            So now the National Party are no longer forcing people to convert they’re losing support because it’s not as good for a voluntary system than one that people can choose to adopt. So in a voluntary system you get to choose which society will have the most babies. Being honest about what it’s all about Y’know bringing up well rounded children so the government is looking for a certain profile, Christianity searches for a profile and with in that profile there is a list of acceptable things parents and children adhere to.

            Humans to me have a greater value than what’s in their bank accounts so even though Luxon is limited in some ways I’d still want the best for him but the reason I would question Luxon is to protect other people. So I’m not like some batman levels of justice and no murder so I’ll kill to protect other people.

            So probably atheists are as distrusted as Muslims are or LGBT or feminists so there is still a lot of discrimination against these secular groups and because they’re disjointed you can ask a Christian if they’re happy and they’ll say yeah more times than the secular groups who fight with themselves and the mass of people are much less represented in politics. So at least in New Zealand we won’t see Christians discriminated against as much as your garden variety vegan army.

            • I would say all current party’s in NZ have their share of Christians… so…if what you are saying is the case,… we are all doomed to a hard right existence. And following on from that line of reasoning , a society that is worse, not better.

              Frankly , Christians are individuals, not clones cut from a cookie cutter. And again , as I have said, in recent history around the world regarding genocide, and starving their own people while they live in opulence,- some of the worst offenders who have no faith and / or are ‘humanists’ in their own minds . And many Christians are slaughtered because of them, probably because they are peaceful , easy prey and turn the other cheek.

              • Well we have to agree with each other so we don’t get hung up on some technicality and circle each other. So every nation has morals, Muslims will raise there children, ISIS will be raise theirs, and we ours. But these morals directly correlate to war. If you was facing off against The Mongals or Alexander the Great it didn’t matter if you was good or bad or black and white people had to submit or die. Even though it’s been along time since these tyrants ruled the world Y’know there legacies still live on. A lot of out legal system and religion has there origins in these tyrants because they were able to convert the most followers which has sustained through out history.

                • Yes indeed, in fact there was a Viking king who outlawed the old pagan religion when he became a christian and said if any pagan refused to convert , he would have their heads cut off !!!

                  Now some would say that’s REAL evangelism rofl !

                  Mind you, a German tribal king did the same a little earlier and so did the Muslims when they swept across Africa on their way to Europe.

                  I’m sure God grieves at the way we collectively carry on sometimes…

  14. CHRIS LUXON has no explaining to do. All he has to do is make sure the right things are done to get his name on the ballot paper. No doubt has already started sussing out Wellington accommodation for when he is elected.

    Whether he subscribes to Christ’s “preferential option for the poor”? The only subscribing with any relevance is the political party designation on the ballot form. Subscribing to the National Party will be far more important than anything to do with Christ or any God.

  15. Добрый день!
    На днях показали отличный сайт creditmicro с помощью которого можно без проверок получить микрозайм без посещения банка.
    Сама уже взяла небольшую сумму. Заполнила анкету для кредита на сайте. Рассматривали не больше 5 минут, а деньги в течении получаса перечислили мне на карту.
    Очень удобно, быстро и надёжно. Рекомендую!
    Кому интересно, пишите в ответ, скину ссылочку.

  16. Do atheists in politics have to justify u their ideology ?Extraordinary hypocrisy / self righteousness indeed

    • Atheists are essentially humanists, are they not?… or do they have no belief other than the belief there is no / maybe no God ?

      Therefore they have a belief system.

      Hitler and the Nazi’s had a belief system that justified eugenics and mass slaughter of millions of civilians.

      Therefore we do indeed need to know how their beliefs may shape our daily lives if they were to gain power.

      • Atheists belive that humans should be protected. It’s not 100% non-violent so murder could be sanctioned in defence of other humans. Although there’s more religious people than would identify as atheist how ever atheist don’t actively recruited as hard as religious people.

        • I think your atheism has done a fine job of recruiting and evangelizing as the number of genuine Christians who profess a faith has dwindled in the last century. Usually the M.O being using the media and certain scurrilous logic’s combined with 19th century theories that are now fast unraveling.

          True, in many areas the church has shot itself in the foot, definitely in its conduct over the century’s, however, and as I keep saying, … much of the prejudice, genocides etc were carried out by those in ‘sheep’s clothing’ either in or out of the church who used that foundation as a cover. Both certain church leaders and the political leaders of the time.

          Those leaders were no more ‘christian’ as a dog is a chicken.

          • If people are controlled by a God above then they can not adopt atheism of there own free will. It has to be voluntary, there is no recruiting atheists

    • Well, that’s the problem with a faith-based belief system. It’s essentially, “I believe this… because.” There’s no evidence. There are no peer-reviewed studies. There’s no proof of any kind. It’s all ‘faith’. Can you govern a nation on faith? When asked by the electorate to explain your reasoning for decisions taken, what are you going say? God came to me in a vision? My magical tome instructed me on how to go about things? Theocracies generally require one of two things — shared delusion, or enforced subjugation, and I suspect neither of those will prove at all popular in New Zealand.

      For what it’s worth, I don’t think Luxon’s a zealot. I believe he’s a pragmatist who will do what he feels needs to be done to further advance the interests of National and its supporters. I’m fairly sure that won’t be good for the country either.

  17. What a stack of ding bats above?
    To court irony; Jesus Christ almighty but fuck me dead.
    Thinking of luxton swirling his Holy little skirts about in our parliament on our $ix figure$ plu$ entitlement$ makes me yearn for heroin.
    There are never enough fuck words to truly express my dismay at just how many morons there are still who are prepared to believe in a flying wizard deciding who’s to be smited and who’s to be given a halo and a dress and an address on a fucking cloud.
    There is only one defining motivation for the contemporary God botherer and that is to bullshit morons out of their money.

    • And perhaps some of those God botherer’s are trying to gain funding for alcoholism and addiction programs, young single pregnant mothers from at risk backgrounds , and many other social services…

      I think the main thing here refers back to ‘judging people by their fruits’… I think Savage was a good yardstick to measure by as he practiced his belief system in a practical way, – and usually directed at the working people, the poor, the disadvantaged ( war vets ) the elderly and even solo mothers.

      Not all God botherer’s are bad hombre’s.

      In fact most aren’t.

    • My sis too busy to share time with my dear and very old mother cos of study of the book of Jude. So slim and 3 fucken sessions on it with her groups. He, half-bro of Jesus, had a downer on gods other than him. Despite my great love of it, comfort comes no where behind reality.

      Isn’t it a brilliant moment before the cliff.

  18. While Luxon remains a private citizen, he has every right to sing the praises of his particular brand of sky fairy on a Sunday, or donate 10% of his pre-tax income to buy “Bishop” Brian and Hannah “Lady Macbeth” Tamaki a bigger yacht if he wants to.

    When he enters public life via parliament however, I want to know his views abortion, voluntary euthanasia, same-sex marriage and adoption, and transgender people’s choice of bathrooms; and whether his personal religious beliefs are going to colour his policymaking choices about these issues.

    • Well said.

      Particularly regards his 10 % tithe. Let us not forget that most social and sporting clubs demand a fee to maintain upkeep also, yet that is somehow always lost on people when they want to take aim at the christian church ,- or other religious faiths.

      As a cautionary note,.. again… how do we know much of that collective tithe isn’t being used for social services in the greater community? And while its not a good look to see church leaders carousing around on expensive luxury yachts…how do we know that same yacht isn’t used for church social welfare programs when the leader isn’t using it? Such as youth programs?

      That’s the thing, sometimes, we can be too quick to generalize without the full picture.

      And totally agree with wanting to know just what this man is all about and his views. We would be foolish not to. We want to know just what fruit he wants to bring to the table… are they good or bad fruit?…

      • “how do we know that same yacht isn’t used for church social welfare programs when the leader isn’t using it? Such as youth programs?”

        I reckon they’d be singing it from the hilltops if that were the case. The fact I’ve never seen that happen leads me to believe it probably doesn’t.

        • ‘Leads you to believe’ ?

          Well in that case, it may conjecture on your part. And a reason I say this is because the christian etho’s has a saying based on Christs command to ‘ never let the left hand know what the right hand is doing’…

          Berean Study Bible ·

          …So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

    • Totally agree simonm. Unfortunately the track record of politicians telling us honestly what they stand for before election is not stellar. 1984 labour govt. anyone? On further reflection i could probably include this lot!

  19. IMHO one of the most interesting outcomes from the 2018 census was to discover that religion is now a minority interest in New Zealand, with NO RELIGION overtaking Christianity. Bill English and his fervent Catholic beliefs meant his opinions were irrelevant to the majority of NZ. Lets hope that same fact is reflected in the polls when Luxon takes the reins.

    Religion is dying out and the tax free scam should also be eliminated as soon as possible.

    • Bill English’s ‘fervent Catholic beliefs were not the problem, – it was his card carrying adherence to neo liberalism that was the issue.

      People seem to keep wanting to confuse the issues here, … as many Catholics and other christian denominations are center left , – in some cases far left ( South America ) , – and more so than the humanists claim to be. After all , don’t so many of these self described humanists rigidly adhere to neo liberalism? Including many in the 1984 govt and many in Bolger’s govt?

      The very ones on this blog they claim to detest?

      That’s what you get when you start to confuse the issues.

  20. So how about Comrade Adhern and her socialist belief system that seeks to enslave those who disagree with her views. She calls it hate speech, you know if you disagree with someone you are using “hate speech” and we will stop you!

    • ^^^

      I prefer this coalition govt hands down to what was before . But you’ve just illustrated a marvelous point… its people who cause the crap, – not necessarily all people who subscribe to a particular denomination or creed. People are not cut from cookie cutters, they are all individuals and in every movement there’s always the dark horse, the swindler , the opportunist,the bad egg … to bash Christianity is just as bad as bashing Islam , Hinduism or any other ‘ism ‘.

      And it certainly shows the blatant hypocritical prejudice that exists in those who claim to be tolerant , or from the Left .

    • This nonsense just adds to the coded lanaguge that signals to there followers that the time is close to marry state and religion. Christian leaders have a lot to answer for when they allow these nobodies to corrupt the teachings of Christ.

      • … ‘ Christian leaders have a lot to answer for when they allow these nobodies to corrupt the teachings of Christ’…

        You cant lump christian leaders all together as a homogeneous group. You may have a consensus situation among a certain ‘church’ or group , but it would be erroneous to lump ‘all christian leaders as clones of one another.

        A graphic illustration is the fact that during the 1981 Springbok tour, there were a fair few pastors and church leaders who joined those demonstrations. And many among those congregations and even from congregations that supported the tour.

        Now,… that doesn’t appear to me as if all Christians are clones or easily led, does it… nor rabid far right extremist neo cons/ neo liberals, either.

        • Oh yes I can lump them all in the same kettle. The Pope denounces and excommunicates all the time yet up until recently they’ve had huge issues with pedophile priests and othe minor lords corrupting the teachings of Christ. Deviants are all the same to me. Killing God dosnt have consequences for us. The consequences are that Christianity rots from the inside.

    • True. Also New Zealand evangelicals are not at all the same as the American version.For a start, in reality they rarely proselytize and they are frequently left wing. Wikipedia is not the best source of information on this.

    • Maybe not, Georgina, but if that’s true, then why does its pastor sing the praises of Donald Trump and regard climate change as a hoax? And why did he remove all trace of these views from the church’s website the moment Luxon was selected? (Check out Russell Brown’s “Public Address” blog for more details.) The Upper Room Church NZ maybe closer to The Upper Room Church USA than you have been led to believe.

      • Who cares and is it important? And if it is important, in what way?
        Because he might get to be leader of National?

        There will be about three Botany voters who will be affected by all of the Trump stuff, the climate stuff, the deletion of website stuff, any church stuff and their voting for him in the election.

        Removing stuff from a church website because he thinks it being there could impact on his chances? That’ll be called pragmatic, sensible. It’s also the actions of someone who’s gutless, hypercritical and doesn’t have the courage of his religious convictions. (Or maybe he’s traded those in.)

        Fear Luxon not being the upright, great New Man some would have us believe our Parliament needs? Fear he has some devious agenda? There’ll be no fear in Botany.

        A twisted, flawed head case got in in America and religious nutcases were an important factor there. We tend to copy the good old USA.

  21. An “Evangelist” is generally someone with full-time or part time vocation to evangelize, a preacher to the unconverted. It’s not just any person in the evangelical movement. A person in the evangelical movement is just called an evangelical Christian, or an evangelical for short.

  22. Luxon as leader of National? Unlikely with this sort of baggage. It would be a takeover by the worst kind of Christian right-wing conservatism; a sort of populist fascism.

  23. Chosen To Rule? What Sort Of Christian Is Chris Luxon?

    Luxon is no christian as its hard to imagine Jesus Christ would have been a believer in dog eat dog capitalism
    that the National party advocates.
    It is all a front !!

  24. Chris Luxon is an evangelical? that’s great! So too was William Wilberforce who was responsible for for banning slavery in Britain and its colonies, so was our very own Kate Shepherd who was instrumental in obtaining the vote for women here in New Zealand, so too are other members of the National party. I don’t know about Labour, NZ First and the Greens.

    What’s the worst that could happen? He may hold ideas you or I don’t agree with. Well again, so what, that’s probably true for most MPs who are presently in parliament.

    Welcome to democracy.

  25. As Friedrich Nietzsche said, there has only ever been one Christian, and that was old Jesus himself. And Max Weber wrote an entire book on the direct links between capitalism and Christianity (The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism) so we have a long list of authoritative research on why this particular individual from the elite business class can at one and the same time be a rational, profit and loss managerialist, a holder of punitive, reactionary moral values and a deluded religious fool. No surprises whatsoever. The important thing is to keep on his case, with a strident free and critical press, so that he can be relegated to the dustbin of history before he can do any serious damage.

  26. Religion put Jesus on the cross and seems to be the polar opposite of freedom. The Jesus I know wants freedom for all, therefore would likely prefer we don’t limit his power with religion and its followers. Just my opinion, for what it is worth.

  27. Lets not look at Luxon through the prism of left wing politics

    His appeal will be to the conservative voter, impressed with his business creds. He’ll be a John Key 2.0 but without the smarmyness

    That makes him ten times more dangerous

  28. My problem is not for most Christians there is only one version that scares me and its the ones that are offshoots of the Southern Baptist Convention and their Prosperity Gospel. The exact same ones that are causing havoc in the USA and who seem to have a right-wing agenda that involves white racism and anti woman anti LGBT.

Comments are closed.