Look, I feel for the homosexual community being offended & hurt by Israel Folau’s Instagram post, but spare a thought for all the drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists & idolators out there who he also doomed to hellfire!
Israel’s dinner parties must be very dull.
What if you are a happy drunk? Like, yes, you have a case of full blown alcoholism, but you are the life of the party?
I can understand angry or violent drunks going to hell as per Folau’s list, but happy drunks? That just seems needlessly broad.
Fuck the Idolaters though.
Folau’s Instagram post comes at a time when NZ and the Western world are struggling with the definition of hate speech and the decision by Australian Rugby (after immense pressure from the very rainbow friendly Qantas) to dump Folau seems like a tiny, tiny victory.
One persons religious perspective is hate speech…
…while anothers is celebrated diversity…
…isn’t it a tad shallow & vacuous to be celebrating a rugby players sacking after his slightly homophobic list of the damned when Brunei announced death by stoning for homosexuality earlier this year?
Where is the cry to refuse all trade with Brunei?
Folau’s Instagram post is stupid speech (as opposed to hate speech) while Brunei represents death by stoning. It also seems a little hollow for Qantas to attack Folau, because they are partnered to Qatar Airways and Emirates. Qatar imprisons homosexual acts, and the UAE punishes homosexuality with the death penalty.
It’s easy to scream at a Pacific Island Rugby player over conservative religious opinions on social media but far harder to stand up to actual state sponsored repression against gay communities.
In the age of subjective rage where the policing of micro aggressions trumps all objective reality this is a tiny win, however the backlash amongst those young men who see him as a hero will probably outweigh whatever point is supposed to be made here.
Liberal progressive democracies are supposed to be able to withstand and tolerate opinions that are offensive, buckling and proclaiming hate speech to everything we disagree with is likely to end in a cluster fuck of counter productive outcomes.
The totalitarian joy so many of the woke seem to be exhibiting in their online celebration at the sacking of a Pacific Island religious conservative rugby player seems like low hanging fruit at its most ironic and metaphorical.
If we’ve finished making Israel a martyr for homophobes, could we get on with the whole Brunei, Qatar and UAE divestments?
Cheering the demise of Folau is a cacophony of the woke hecklers veto, little different to the jagged shriek of a lynch mob or thump of the book burning storm trooper. All hail the new treasons as the worst with micro aggression policing & virtue signalling our new Gods.
yes agreed.
Israel Folau’s Instagram post is stupid, and he lost all credibility when he posted ‘hate speech’ which will be banned soon by Jacinda and UK.
So quoting the Bible (Old Testimony) is deemed Hate Speech? I’ll admit it contains some rather unsavoury passages, but so does the Koran. The Woke media will harass you out of town for even suggesting banning the Koran…I suggest they won’t be so harsh on you if it was only the Bible wanting to be burnt. But that says more about them than anything else
No one is suggesting banning either the Bible or the Koran.
As for your question “so quoting the Bible (Old Testimony) is deemed Hate Speech?” It certainly can be. Especially if used to justify persecuting a minority or women because an invisible supernatural deity told you to do so.
Totally agree with you Frank on the absolute farcical ability for people “to justify persecuting a minority or women because an invisible supernatural deity told ‘them’ to do so”. Being agnostic, I think all faiths are inane, but I have no problem with people believing in what they want to believe.
But if we both agree that some religious manuscripts contain verses that do not tie in with the modern enlightenment, then what can we do? Censor parts we don’t like? Ban them completely?
My preferred choice to allow them to be given the full light of day, but be allowed to be questioned (and yes mocked) but not to silence them. Cleangreen called Israel’s’ comments Hate Speech, thus should be banned, therefore Cleangreen must wish to ban the Bible (as thats where these verses come from)…slippery slope
So wheres the limit, BG? Can i stand outside your house and call your daughter a slut because she’s having pre-marital sex with her boyfriend, based on Biblical/Koranic teaching?
Can I abuse your gay family member in public?
Can I call your wife a murderer because she chose to have an abortion?
Can I call you a useless, lazy drunk destined to hell because you enjoy a drink or five on Friday?
Where’s the limit on free speech? Especially when its amplified and carried via the internet to all corners of society??
Thats a lot if bigotry we’re being asked to swallow because /a/ they can and /b/ free speech is a free pass to abuse anyone you like.
Then, of course, the next step is someone who acts on any of those god-sanctioned bigotry and fire bombs an abortion clinic.
Mj, There’s the Mental Health Act, protection orders, the libel laws, Criminal Justice Act etc etc, plain old disturbing the peace….maybe just laughing in their face. Failing that baseball bat and a defense of temporary insanity.
No need for hate speech laws, or Pharisees defining them.
Considering how the woke must reject power structures as a tyrannical oppressive patriarchy, politicizing can’t really be avoided.nthe just means the woke agree with you so don’t notice them. “The fish don’t think about water principle.”
The trick is to do so without letting the politics harm the story. Creators who are true believers often harm their own work by being heavy handed and not seeing it.
Here, here.
Where ? Where ?
There there
Now, now.
While there is no great cause for elation in Mr Folau’s sacking really, he did break his employment terms, so it was Professional Sport wot dun it!
Did anyone else notice that he seemed to omit “Money Worshippers” from his list of the damned?
‘money worship; comes under ” idolatry “. Idolatry is anything that comes before God in our lives. Sport fanatics could be classed as idolaters if that is more important to them than worshiping God. Just because someone can/does make a lot of money or have a lot of interest in sport doesn’t necessary mean they are idolaters though. It’s all about our attitude to something.
Pamela: ” Idolatry is anything that comes before God in our lives.”
Thank you, Pamela. I had been intending to post, asking what the hell an idolator was? I should have remembered that: grew up mickey-drip. Long time since I darkened the doors of a church, but.
A fan of Eric Idle (Monty Python)?
American Idol? Australian Idol?
A lazy sod who does bugger all?
Indeed, Tiger, indeed.
Because if his tweet against “sinners” was a Cunning Plan to be sacked from his rugby code, that would leave him free to pursue more lucrative contracts further afield.
Not that any god-fearing Christian could ever be quite so cynically calculating and money-grubbing. Just ask Bishop Tamaki.
Hmm…a plan so cunning… you could pin a tail on it and call it a weasel
That be the one, ‘Comet.
Yep. Token outrage addressed by cherry picking very low hanging fruit. Also, Twitter (and social media generally) makes people dumber.
Yes, outrage at anything, everything
Yes, and this is an issue that I have tried repeatedly to debate with “woke” people, but they are simply unwilling to acknowledge it. Their tactics and rhetoric, on a range of issues, are likely to have the opposite effect on society than the one they want. Hate speech is real, homophobia is real, racism is real, and white supremacist groups are real. But, the way the woke deploy these terms, and the way the twitter mobs demand the metaphorical lynching of anyone who takes a contrary view to progressive opinions, creates resentment and backlash.
The election of Donald Trump and the rise of the European far-right are examples of that backlash. In New Zealand, who’s words are more likely to have a positive effect on combating racism and creating a more inclusive society, Jacinda Adern’s or Marama Davidson’s?
I want a progressive, inclusive society, but please, please, woke people, you’re not helping!
Oops! There , there…
Slip on the ‘r’. Try ‘a’.
“Stupid-speech instead of hate speech” That about sums this up. Like the guy who was ranting about Muslim’s outside the AL-Noor Mosque – it’s just an outbreak of stupidity that’s come at a bad time.
Just for the record though Jesus is recorded in the bible as having nothing to say about homosexuality in the bible, but an awful lot to say about loving our neigbours.
It gets complicated doesn’t it!
I would be pretty sure that Israel’s remarks are straight out of the book of mormon. To him on a par with the bible for catholics or protestant christians; or the koran for moslems . Some believe the word of their holy book implicitly , some regard it as parable to be modified to modern trends. It kind of depends on the depth of belief one adheres to in their chosen religion . A nation has recently made it a crime punishable by stoning to death the transgressions Israel refers to. So the teachings he accepts as god’s will are not peculiar to his mormon faith.
He is being censured , persecuted and materially penalised for his beliefs.
There’s no end to the tangle of incompatible perceived rights getting wound up in this issue. Why don’t we worry about thins that matter instead,? and that can be resolved.
D J S
David, Folau grew up as a Mormon but now attends and Assembly’s of God church, which makes him Pentecostal.
And he also condemns Catholics and people who celebrate Easter and Christmas. He is a fanatic and has chosen to use his position to promote his religious bigotry in a manner which is contrary to what he agreed in his employment contract. He deserves what he gets.
Folau speaks like another obedient puppet to archaic authoritarian, money collecting, repressive regimes, and if he had sense would be careful as to not show his utter stupidity and ignorance.
Drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists & idolaters?
I’m at least two of them.
I’m in for three.
D J S
Three point five.
Right with your SW…. but wait a minute that not completely true which makes me at least a four.
Six ticked off.
(I thank my Past Self’s mis-spent youth. From what I can recall of it.)
Fornicators? – well that’s me fucked.
Heh heh heh heh…
Frank you have a new convert to idolisation of your example. That takes me to 5 will i will continue to strive.
He also said Christmas and Easter were for heathens.
25th Dec is isaac Newtons Birthday, a man who changed direction of Science.
“Easter” time is an ancient celebration of season change when one star disappears and 3 days later another appears marking a season change.
Much older than any current religion.
His church is the assemblies of God which according to its website “We believe that the work of sanctification in the life of a believer results in a life characterised by love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. This kind of life rejects pride and rebellion and all behaviour stemming from this, such as homosexuality, sexual immorality and sexual perversion, lust, incest, idolatry, envy, murder, strife, drunkenness, deceit, malice, gossip, slander, insolence, arrogance, boasting, promoting evil deeds, disobedience, greed, covetousness and all forms of moral depravity.” It has over 230 churches in NZ.
I find it bizarre that any individual who breaks the seemingly common consensus at large will be hounded by the woke mob and yet an organisation preaching this can do so openly within our communities. It’s a hell of a lot of hate getting preached every Sunday
Rule one.
Never expect a church to rationally explain anything except in terms of it own invented account of the commitment that it needs to grow and collect wealth from its “faithful” (read stupid and fearfully unquestioning), and used that to expand its grip on its poor families who look for hope.
The victims need help not support and have little chance of escape without outside help.
A clinical analysis
http://www.deikman.com/former.html
Dear oh dear, all this “calling out homophobia!”.
Wouldn’t a satirical cartoon be more effective, depicting a queue stretching to the horizon outside the gates of hell – what with all those fornicators, drunks, liars etc.
That’d be the worst of it – spending most of eternity in a queue.
The English are totally splendid queue-ists Chruskl – I guess that means they’re whopping great sinners. I learnt to queue in the UK. Sometimes I can now be seen straightening up untidy straggling messes of persons wandering like zombies around Wellington bus stops and not forming any sort of queue whatsoever. Or even making an effort to.
Queues are a traumatising experience for Wellington workers waiting for buses which never arrive since the council made an informed decision to totally stuff the whole system and abolish half the buses which they are quite capable of dumping at the bottom of the harbour just to punish people who don’t clog the streets with cars. They dislike us.
There’s a man down our local bustop been waiting for his bus since last Thursday, and one lady with whom it is never a good idea to even make eye contact.
Wellingtonians should not be expected to queue in the hereafter no matter what sins they have committed, but should all be sent straight up to heaven in celestial chariots as in the Old Testament, and Grandma Adelaide’s Book of Inspirational Poetry.
Indeed. And no doubt they’ll be expecting to be spared running into Chris Laidlaw when they get there.
No worries, D’Estrerre, that’s what them black holes are for, but if we’re nice we’ll give him a kindly wave as we whizz right on by… chirping songs from Uncle Cyril’s Book of Celestial Navigational Aids For Beginners, Sinners, and Assorted Others.
Nicely put
Martyn you’re anti-millenial tirades are getting tiresome. Most millenials are pretty chill actually. I don’t think there was “outrage” outside of the media bubble. We already knew Folau was an evangelical who believed in that bullshit.
In the end, he broke the contract he signed up to which included something about “bringing the game into disrepute”. Probably deliberately, so he can get a deal with a French club. He’s not getting any younger.
Oooer..hurt feelings putty pie? Put a smile on that dial young blood! So wise that you are an all
100% agree with this post and people like Marama need to get their act together and think about the bigger picture before she posts messages against small fry players while not bothering to research the greater picture aka Brunei!!!
100% in particular
If the Greens and Labour MP’s in particular keep attacking individual people instead of power interests, corporates and governments that do much worse, they increasingly looks more like a bullies supporting power interests against individual people and letting the establishment do far worse (aka Brunei stones homosexuals) and tolerance of business allies that support it (Quantas) while pretending to have another view (aka going after Folau) .
P.s. Apparently Quantas also has never paid any corporate taxes in OZ for 10 years (in spite of record profits) so shows the type of company they are and the management they represent.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2018/02/14/australias-largest-companies-corporate-tax-10-years/
Actually his comments are addressed,and come from his pasifika background.
19th century christian missionaries also have a HELL of a lot to answer for.
There are non polynesian cultures (even white ones in nz) that would completely agree with him.
The fact that he is an egotistitical self promoter is hardly “news”.
Just look at our “media commentators”.
Just another playground bully strutting his stuff.
Folau is telling the world how to behave? How modestly polynesian?
What, exactly, has he achieved?
Yeah, ok, exhibishionist ego wanking.
He can now join all the other media “commentators”.
Yes indeed. Just like we’re telling the self righteous bigot to fuck off. And then, fuck off some more.
Just like his rugby club said. Fuck off Folau.
Don’t worry, his fucked up god will look after him.
If he keeps payingt he money. If not he will get a FO and placed on the list he mentioned.
its not his god that is fucked up its him and he wont be standing alone Maria will stand with him i have to wonder about her can’t she tell him to ‘zip it sweetie’
Hehehe…a plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a weasel eh! Time will tell and you will be able to say I told you so if it proves to be the case. Otherwise…he is a very literal guy and you are a bit of a conspiracy theorist, or anyway, a cynic. Great bit of clarity here too Martyn, thanks for shining the light on booshit wherever it may reign!
I take your point about systemic homophobia – but I think this post is missing the main win here. A national sports team saying national representatives have to be able to represent alk of “us” is great news. It means sportsmen who rape or hurt women, express or carry out racism, and express or carry out queerphobic acts or beliefs should not be able to represent their countries. So on that basis, this is great news.
+1 Sandra
Martyn: “isn’t it a tad shallow & vacuous to be celebrating a rugby players sacking after his slightly homophobic list of the damned when Brunei announced death by stoning for homosexuality earlier this year?”
Because to create an environment where brutal thuggery can be carried out against LGBTQI, they first have to be de-humanised, vilified, and demonised
The violence that then follows against LGBTQI is a natural result
Large acts of violence are usually preceded with little acts and words of hate
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