When someone hands out leaflets which say “Allah is a gay god” and “Allah is transgender” then this is not an issue of free speech. This is part of a calculated campaign to incite religious hatred.
When someone boards a boat to intervene and prevent the rescue of refugees in leaky boats in the Mediterranean then this is not a freedom of speech issue. It is part of a calculated campaign to whip up hatred and hysteria against refugees.
This is what the two “alt-right” (neo-fascist) Canadians have done elsewhere and yet a so-called “free speech coalition” wants them to have public venues to continue their vile campaigns designed to whip up anger and aggression against racial and religious minorities in this country.
The UK government banned them but New Zealand has given them visas.
And to those who say the ideas of these Canadians are stupid and would never get traction in New Zealand just remember that the rise of fascism in Spain, Italy and Germany during the 1930s was fuelled precisely by such despicable campaigning which demonised racial, religious and political minorities. The outcome was the Second World War and the holocaust which killed six million Jews alongside communists, gays, gypsies and disabled people.
When these hate-merchants turn up here we need to turn up the heat on them.
If the Canterbury Museum runs an exhibition featuring a T shirt from the band Cradle of Filth, featuring on one side a picture of a Nun masturbating, and on the other side the words “Jesus is a C word” , nothing happens
If Te Papa have an art exhibit featuring the Virgin Mary wrapped in a condom, nothing happens.
If Vice Magazine run an article suggesting that Jesus was gay, nothing happens
What is special about Islam then?
“What is special about Islam then?”
Islam is not our religion to lampoon. Christianity is.
Why is Christianity “our” religion to lampoon?
What ownership to the secular left have over Christianity when they have rejected it and all the teachings within it?
Andy, it is silly to make assumptions about other people’s religious beliefs, especially when you know little about religion, and you illogically link people’s assumed political views into your tangled cerebral cross-circuits.
It would surprise me if anyone on the ‘secular left’ rejects the central teachings of Christianity, which derive from the Sermon on the Mount, in brief, “Do unto others as you would have them do onto you.” Speak for yourself.
The issue under discussion is meant to be freedom of speech in public places, not ignorant idiots slagging each other.
Islam is one of the great world religions, and the Koran is beautiful prose, with much which is still relevant today. The major differences between Shia and Sunni Muslims are lost on most commentators here, and all bigotry is bad news.
As someone with a post-graduate degree in Rel Studies, who tutored in it at university level, I’m dismayed at the total tosh being spouted here. All religion is important, as is history, as is mythology, for what they can teach us about ourselves – but not for persecuting each other which seems to be the mindset of Kiwi anti-intellectual haters.
You might be interested in Molyneux’s latest on political Islam,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef1LCIvF6eU
No – life’s too short.
Get yourself a rubbish tin Andy. Invert it – that goes without saying.
Find yourself a street cnr or banyan tree or roundabout or bus stop or big pub egress.
Stand on said rubbish tin and speak freely – share your thoughts – freely – aloud.
Then back home to watch You Tube. Again. And again.
Repeat.
Come on Christine, I was hoping you’d share your vast wisdom for us anti-intellectual types
Why should I watch hours of Youtube videos and read books on Islam when we have a scholar in our midst?
Andy – When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Confucius.
Can you tell me anything that I said about Mohammed or Islam that is wrong?
Speaking of intellectualism, how do you feel about Te Papa having an art exhibition featuring the Virgin Mary in a condom? Is this high art, pop art, or just shite? I’m interested in your intellectual view, for us low-brow types
Andy you surprise me.
The so called “teachings” or instructions laid down for you to obediently follow to gain entry into a mythical after life “glory” are beyond any rational examination.
You appear to be championing such drivel.
Morality exist in human communities long before any current religions who just attempt to capture any thing they can to recruit followers. Its and old pattern well honed and still works in an environment of ignorance.
“Islam is not our religion to lampoon. Christianity is.”
But where are our human rights here then???????
MJOLNIR we are purported to be an “inclussive society are we not??? ; -so we must be free to lampoon any other belief in our society to as we can with the one belief you state us all as being.
Spoken like a true “dhimmi”.
LEGRANDEFROMAGE,
Yes I am not a dlhimmi, I am a very tolerant Christian and proud of it.
Have you got a problem with this?
https://sites.google.com/site/islamicthreatsimplified/what-is-a-dhimmi–a-kafir
A Dhimmi is a person who is a non-Muslim
Dhimmi are non-Muslims, correct. People of the Book
Sometimes forced to pay the Jizya, a poll tax for the privilege
Sorry cleangreen. Was aimed at mjolnir and his idea that Islam was immune to criticism from non muslims.
Good as thanks for that LEGRANDEFROMAGE .
Cheers. – cleangreen.
Context is everything and something that too many in the comment section are ignoring. All too often criticism of Islam is used as a slight of hand by the right to engage in xenophobia and racism whilst giving themselves plausible deniability if they’re being called out for their racism or xenophobia with the tired old catch phrase “Islam isn’t a race”. Personally I have little time for organised religion myself and I’m routinely critical about Islam (along with other religions) without needing to be vulgar and resort to constructed opinions that amount to personal attacks rather than making points that actually involve the receiving party having to consider what was said.
Is there actually any context in the Internet? Outside of spheres like The Daily Blog content is rather bland and profits are down 80%. Now a days anything is controversial, anything can trigger like PTSD in some one because they had a bad experience early on. The dichotomy is trust in business is low but trust in government has never been higher. Even though business convenience surveys try and brainwash every one into thinking business interests is the, and only the TRUE path to salvation. Because muh nam is the lord. Ok I digress. But the grand narratives are in flux.
What if she just put Allah in a condom and displayed it at our national museum ?
When someone boards a boat to intervene and prevent the rescue of refugees
The boat was in the harbor, and subsequently the government has blocked all of these boats. She was just pointing out GEOs were helping traffic people and breaking international laws, if you don’t like them facts, maybe get the laws changed.
And John do you lock your house, remove your front door if you want open borders.
BTW she NEVER bordered any boats, apart from the one she was already on, while waiting for the ‘refugee’ ship to tun up in the HARBOR.
She ‘obeys’ way more laws than say …. ummm the Springbok tour protesters, you know your lot of criminals.
So you support the other side of the anti-tour movement, Robert? You know, the apartheid criminals?
If you’re going to side with neofascists, be a little more upfront about it.
No Mr anon just pointing out that Lauren and Stefan obey the laws of the country.
Didn’t ‘we’ fight a couple of wars to have the freedom of speech?
If the laws are neo-fascist then whos problem is that?
No, neither was for freedom of speech – and one was to stop actual fascists.
Lucikliy even thou femism is a cancer and the Muslim religion really is a discusting backwards way of thinking, they are both allowed in NZ. I will definitely be going to listen to Lauren she has many great topics and she will be heard. I will fight against any of you whom try to stop me from going to listen to her.
Will you fight me if I denounce you and tell you what I think of these vile humans? Will you fight me if I say what I think of you to your face? And when saying “you Will fight” what exactly kind of fight are you talking about? Argument? Discourse? Rhetoric? Facts? Stats? Or are you being an authoritarian rightist and will punch me or kick me?
You want free speech? But if I was to call you a right wing cunt then you will physically stop my free speech won’t you?
Standard practice for right wingers
SUBVERT
As a 6yr old kid in 1951 I want to a Presbyterian sunday school at 11am and church at 7pm at night.
I never heard anything of the Islam religion until I was in my 20’s.
All I was taught was to love everyone and do to them what you would have do me, whichn said to be nice to each other.
This was a very easily acceptable feeling i grew up with.
I always saw religion as a way to fit together with others in a warm environment and it has taken me around the world always sheltering me from hate.
Today we have many souls torured by division and fear that I now am so very sad to see.
That is why I am still proud to call myself a Christian.
I will always look for the good in everyone as there is good in all of us no matter our creed or religion.
“There’s so much good in the worst of us,
And so much bad in the best of us
That it ill becomes any one of us
To talk about the rest of us”
D J S
You might find yourself fighting me and you better be a f# cking tough c#nt Stephen ..
I hope we don’t see here a rise in Islamophobia,..it’s certainly on the rise in the US..ugly and cruel.
Why not? Should we not be afraid of Islam?
They should be more afraid of us.
I am afraid of people who divide the world into ‘them’ and ‘us’
and promote fear of the ‘other’.
My feeling is that most NZers aren’t like that.
I am afraid of people who divide the world into ‘them’ and ‘us’
and promote fear of the ‘other’.
Well then, given that, if you are not afraid of Islam, you’re not telling the truth.
I am afraid of people who divide the world into ‘them’ and ‘us’ and promote fear of the ‘other’.
When societies break down, it is useful for the powerful to find scapegoats.
That’s what happened in eastern Europe in the early-mid 20th Century. That’s what is in danger of happening in the US with its extreme degree of inequality.
I’m not afraid of Islam either, Richard. Why should I be?
In the 1950s the bogeyman was “monolithic international communism”. Don’t tell us you’ve been sucked in by a new bogeyman??
I’m more wary of the rise of nationalism, a second Cold War, neo-fascism, and all the “lesser angels” of human nature.
I’m not afraid of Islam either, Richard. Why should I be?
Possibly because you are not gay (surmising), not an atheist, not a ex-Muslim apostate, not an adulterer, not interested in the right to criticise or mock paranormal delusions, not a defender of equal status for women etc.
Personally, I am afraid of ideologies that push medieval and anti-enlightenment ideals, pushes that are often accompanied with threats of real violence.
When it comes to being gay, can you point to any of the major religions that DON’T discriminate and attack homosexuality? Judaism? Christianity?
Lois, I’m afraid that more than half of ‘them’ want homosexuality made illegal in the UK. You want the same ideology spreading in NZ, then that’s on you. Be prepared to be called homophobic and a nazi.
So what does that mean. No referendum has ever been held here on homosexual freedoms.
Frankly if there was one I wouldn’t mind betting they wouldn’t be tolerated in our so-called Christian society.
Look back in history – only a few years since practising homosexuals were locked up.
Where not exactly pure on these things at all.
So don’t just say it is Islam.
Michal, let me break it down simply: compare Muslim majority countries with Christian majority countries.
Yes Christianity has made an ass of itself, Catholicism I find inexcusable. It’s now the alt left making asses of themselves by trying to wind back the clock. They have become useful idiots for the real fascists.
Lois you are a beautiful lady I respect dearly as you capture my heart with your compassion for peace.
I am a christian.
The thruth is that islam has an end goal and that is to subvert us all into islam and have warned that if we dont we should die, as it is written in their bible ‘The Koran do not stand for peace.
http://bible.ca/islam/islam-kills-not-peaceful.htm
Where does it say this in the Quran exactly?
I too am a Christian but that does not mean I believe in all that Old testament stuff and eye for an eye.
There is much in the bible that is negative about non Christians.
When is the last time an Islmic country invaded us, Andy?
And when was the last time western country invaded a predominantly Islamic country?
Any more questions?
Islam spread by the sword, i.e Jihad. Islam has killed approximately 270 million people since Mohammed started slaughtering people in the name of his religion
Islam continues to slaughter people on a daily basis in the name of Jihad.
Invasion these days is by stealth. The Islamic supremacists are pretty explicit in their goals
The torture and murder of people in the name of Christianity has been rife over the centuries – the crusades – now hamy was that they knocked off.
Whereas the West invades openly, Andy? Afghanistan? Iraq? Egypt?
Plus coups in Egypt, Libya, Lebanon, etc?
Plus arming Israel, complete with atomic bombs? Supporting Israel to annex the West Bank and the Golan Heights and blockade Gaza?
One-sided doesn’t begin to describe your views, Andy.
As for Islam “killed approximately 270 million people since Mohammed started slaughtering people in the name of his religion” – did you make up that number yourself or pick it out at random from some judeo-christian-neo-right website?
Did you include the untold numbers slaughtered by European “crusaders” when they invaded the Middle East in the 10th and 11th centuries?
You see, Andy? If (some) muslims hate us, they have good reason to do so. Europe (and later the American Empire) have attacked, invaded, meddled, and toppled governments in the Middle East for centuries.
And when oil was discovered, it was “Game On” for the West and it’s oil multinationals.
And now you whinge about “Islam continues to slaughter people on a daily basis in the name of Jihad”?!
It’s damned easy to be as partisan as you, Andy. You simply close your eyes to half of human history and focus on what suits you.
I don’t think Andy’s comment on Islam passes any judgement on other ideologies.
Whataboutism doesn’t wash.
No, but context does.
The crusades are not context, they are ancient history.
The current context is Islamic extremism, and if you genuinely cared about modern freedoms you and John Minto would support the right of these idiots to express themselves.
Free speech isn’t just for people you agree with.
In other words, Damocles, just pick-and-choose the bits of history that validate your position?
How recent do you want to be – the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq? Modern day “crusades” according to former President G. W. Bush.
Or US support for Israel to annex Jerusalem as the capital city; blockade Gaza, and colonise the West Bank with illegal settlements? Is that recent enough for you?
You may have a point in the we don’t need to delve into far history to understand why the Middle East distrusts the West – the last century or so will suffice.
Though strangely enough, that doesn’t prevent pro-Zionist sychophants from quoting Biblical history to validate Israeli expansion into Palestinian land.
“Free speech isn’t just for people you agree with.”
Free speech doesnt mean you have to agree with someone else. You are actually allowed to disagree.
Yep. After the twin towers annihilation, the Dom-Post published an editorial asking why, and why does Islam hate the west, and I couldn’t believe that a newspaper in our capital city could be so ignorant and so obtuse.
We have screwed these countries, and their peoples, and just because we largely got away with it does not make it right, or justifiable.
We are part of the Great Satan. Get used to it.
Unless 9/11 was an inside job (some parts do look dodgy I must admit), I’ll just assume that it is part of the Jihad that has been going on for 1400 years
It was about a hundred years ago. Turkey invaded and
occupied Europe over the course of hundreds of years, taking milliona of lives a d destroying countless cultures. This occupation has not ended either as they still occupy land in Europe.
Johan, the Ottoman invasion occurred after the Crusades’ invasion of the Middle East.
It’s like you’re blaming the Americans and British for invading Europe on 6 June 1944 – and ignoring what transpired prior to D Day.
And the Crusades happened after the Muslims’ conquest of the Middle East, north Africa and parts of central Asia. As usual, where you place your starting point has a big outcome on the conclusions you might draw.
I fail to see how “the Middle East, north Africa and parts of central Asia” is part of Europe and Britain. (Did someone move bits of the map around when I wasn’t looking?)
The Europeans managed to stop them getting beyond Spain in western Europe and eventually drove them out. However, they continued chipping away at eastern Europe and finally destroyed the last bits of the Greek empire (Byzantium) in the 15th Century.
The last Muslim attempt to invade Europe was in the late 17th Century, when they got nearly as far as Vienna. There’s no innocent party in that history.
Frank, Christians are native to that part of the world. It’s Europe where Christianity is the introduced ideology. When Mohammed’s conquest spread out from their original stronghold on the Arabian peninsula and into the areas Milt mentions, they did so by violently invading and defeating local Christian and Jewish communities. The D-Day analogy in fact works against you. Middle Eastern Christians would be the French in that analogy, the Crusaders would be Britain and the USA, and the Caliphate would be Germany.
That would be because Islamic countries arent as wealthy as Western democracies so couldn’t afford to invade the west. Why arent they as wealthy? Because Islam is an oppressive archaic backwards ideology that considers women are worth only half that of a man. When half the population is oppressed, then don’t expect the economy to thrive. And hence why there are so many migrants heading towards to successful democratic economies.
Please name those successful democratic economies that exist anywhere?
Many of these people know their opportunities will be greater that is about it.
Amber, you mean… like neo-liberalism? Yeah, thank god(s) that we don’t have people sleeping in garages or cars; stagnant wages; wealth inequality; housing unaffordability, etc.
And thank your deity that the working classes in the US haven’t been so gutted by globalisation that they elected a demogogue as their president because they wanted to send a ‘disruptor’ to the White House.
Oh, and don’t forgot where the last two World Wars were fought in Europe – that bastion of “successful democratic economies”.
As for Islamic countries “arent as wealthy as Western democracies so couldn’t afford to invade the west” – have you looked at Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar lately? (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/richest-countries-world-163457310.html)
I hope we do see a rise here in Islamophobia, because Islam sucks a big one and should be rejected as a bullshit ideology by anyone in a liberal western democracy who learns anything about it. I think you mean you hope we don’t see a rise here in anti-Muslim bigotry, which certainly is a DO NOT WANT but is a different thing from rejecting bullshit ideologies.
No, Milt, Islamophobia has no place in our society. Just as antizionism in the 1930s was code for antisemitism, islamophobia is a thin veneer covering a nasty racist streak.
Don’t be sucked in by it.
It is, huh? Must be true because you’ve asserted it to be the case, or something?
When I look at the tenets of Islam I see a nasty authoritarian ideology overlaid with some God blather. But don’t take my word for it – if I’m right, we could expect countries in which Islam dominates politics to display nasty authoritarian features with an overlay of God blather. And, sure enough, the countries in which Islam most dominates politics are Saudi Arabia and Iran, both of which display nasty authoritarian features with an overlay of God blather. Any counter-examples out there?
Most religions are like that, Milt. Why single out Islam when the Bible has some pretty extreme teachings in it. According to the Bible, women who are declared “witches”, homosexuals, adulterers, are all to be put to death.
I can find the relevant links, but I really can’t be arsed.
But if you want a more modern example of the “gentleness” of Christianity, I refer you to the treatment of a nine year old rape victim;
ref: https://www.smh.com.au/world/vatican-defends-excommunication-for-raped-nineyearold-girls-abortion-20090308-8s3s.html
So there y’go; ” the accused stepfather would not be expelled from the church. Although the man allegedly committed “a heinous crime … the abortion – the elimination of an innocent life – was more serious”…
Before the self-righteous Islamophobes point their judgemental fingers at Islam (which is no better than christianity in many respects), have a thought for a religion that condemns a nine year old rape victim while the rapist was treated more leniently.
The West is hardly “100% Pure” in this respect.
We should single out Islam because Islam spread by the sword
The Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) personally beheaded several hundred Jews, instructed his men to rape captive women, and had a child bride (Aisha) who he first had sex with when she was 9. This to Muslims is the perfect man, and their role model
I haven’t seen anyone “put to the sword” here in New Zealand, Andy, have you?
However, the death penalty is very much in use in the United States. Are you opposed to the death penalty or not?
I haven’t seen anyone “put to the sword” here in New Zealand, Andy, have you?
That’s just silly Frank, the reason is simple.
We don’t incorp0rate Sharia law into out penal code.
Neither does the US, Japan, China, and Russia.
Yet they still have capital punishment. Not everything can be laid at the feet of another culture/religion, Richard.
‘We should single out Islam because Islam spread by the sword”
What did Christianity use to spread its dogma, flowers?? You’ll find Chriatianity was equally if not more agressive than islamists.
So Christianity spread by Jihad?
Awesome, I look forward to the documentary
You ARE obsessed with Islam Andy. Have you sought professional help for your phobia? It can be treated, you know, with patience and appropriate medicatiin (mainly sedatives, in your case).
Disclaimer: I’m a militant atheist and regard all religions with disdain and contempt. That said:
In what sense is Christianity a political ideology, Frank? When you read through the Nicene Creed, what behavioural rules does it impose? What legislative programme does it lay out? What instructions did Jesus give about what punishments should be applied to whom, for what offences? In that respect, there’s a huge gulf between Islam and Christianity.
You could fill a multi-volume encyclopedia with “Here’s some bad shit that Christians did.” It’s irrelevant. My argument is about the underlying ideology of a religion, not whether some adherents of it do bad things or not. The underlying ideology of Islam is a fundamentally illiberal one, and that’s reflected wherever it comes to dominate a country’s politics.
The same can easily be said of fundamentalist christianity and judaism, Milt.
And I gave Andy one exaqmple of a recent case in Brazil where catholic extremism is political: https://www.smh.com.au/world/vatican-defends-excommunication-for-raped-nineyearold-girls-abortion-20090308-8s3s.html
You gave an example of someone who opposed abortion. Hardly the same as blowing up people with suicide vests
This happens almost every day.
Check out TheReligionOfPeace.com
It can be easily said, yes. It can’t be as easily argued for, which is something else entirely.
(NB: you could argue that Judaism is also an authoritarian ideology, but Judaism makes no claim that it applies to the whole of humanity so who cares.)
And it’s telluing that you trivialise “Here’s some bad shit that Christians did.” as “It’s irrelevant” – but go on to demonise Islam as a ” fundamentally illiberal one”.
You then state about Islam “and that’s reflected wherever it comes to dominate a country’s politics” – whilst conveniently omitting the damage that fundamentalist christianity inflicts on US culture (and in the South Pacific – more on that later in an upcoming blogpost). And that’s under the cloak of “religious freedom” – including the “right” to discriminate.
Christianity used to be a whole lot more extreme before Western society evolved (mostly) away from it. But even here in New Zealand, there are remnants of it.
“The UK government banned them but New Zealand has given them visas.”
Would that be the same British government that gave a state welcome to President Erdogan of Turkey who is presently carrying out ethnic cleansing of Kurds in the Syrian province of Afrin, and has shut down newspapers and imprisoned journalists?
If these two Canadians had been buying literally billions of dollars of arms which would be used to suppress a different race, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have been banned.
100% welll said ESOTERIC PINEAPPLES
And yet adhering to a ‘sacred’ text that condemns all non-believers to die and suffer for eternity is not organised hatred? Monotheism IS hate speech. Hmmm… it’s going to be a class war… what’s next? Defending the fweelings of agents from the largest ethno-nationalist dictatorship since forever?
And this is why I love and respect the Daily Blog: it gives voice.
But to think there is any kind of fascist underground in this country that may be stirred up is absurd.
Have the courage of your own convictions and ideas, John.
Are they that flimsy?
When someone hands out leaflets which say “Allah is a gay god” and “Allah is transgender” then this is not an issue of free speech.
Not at all. Well, not unless someone tried to stop them, at least.
When someone boards a boat to intervene and prevent the rescue of refugees in leaky boats in the Mediterranean then this is not a freedom of speech issue.
Sure – nothing to do with freedom of speech.
This is what the two “alt-right” (neo-fascist) Canadians have done elsewhere and yet a so-called “free speech coalition” wants them to have public venues to continue their vile campaigns designed to whip up anger and aggression against racial and religious minorities in this country.
Ah – I see why you didn’t add “this is not a freedom of speech issue,” because this one totally is a freedom of speech issue, which also happens to be why all those people are calling it a freedom of speech issue.
If the council wants to deny venues to people on the basis it doesn’t like their political opinions, that’s about as free-speech an issue as you could get. You can dress it up as being about preventing people from stirring up racial and religious trouble, but a right-wingers could use exactly the same dressing to deny venues to atheists and indigenous rights activists. Be careful what you agitate for.
What if she just put Allah in a condom and displayed it at our national museum ?
Interesting to note, John, that the free speech waddlers are mostly white middle aged (and beyond!) males.
I’m afraid that NZ’s inherent DNA conservatism will come back to bite us all on the bum…
Kind of ironic that you’re addressing that comment to a white middle-aged man. Also kind of ironic that you’re using bigotry in support of denying rights to bigots. Also kind of ironic that you describe a belief in the right to speak as “conservative,” given the number of radicals who fought conservatives to win us that right.
Actually, Milt, JS Bark has a valid point. It does seem that the free speech fetish is peddled largely by white middle-aged, middle-class males. You know, the ones who AREN’T targetted by neo-fascists.
I guess, if you regard your personal bigotry against a particular group of people as being relevant to an argument about fundamental principles of human rights, you might mistake it for a valid point. But that would mean Southern and Molyneux also have a valid point.
Yup, I’m fulla iron…
(which is also ironic)
Among the worst of Molyneux’s sick allegations is that intelligence is related to skin colour and that brown skinned people are less intelligent
than white, ergo they are inferior. In my book that’s hate speech.
All that was debunked back in the 60’s, and Molyneux himself is living proof of dumb white man, but unfortunately from some of the blogs posted here it is clear that here in NZ we have evolved as a generally unthinking uninformed society, isolated and parochial, and the bile emanating from this pair has the potential to keep these backward people backward, which in practical terms alone is a divisive societal model which we can ill afford.
yeah agree with you Christine to them us Maori are inferior. The Treaty of Waitangi says we are supposed to be protected and our taonga protected. Yet letting these f..wits come here and tramp on us and our culture is not protecting us and their evil weasel words are just as divisive and harmful as actions they incite people to act nasty towards others and we don’t need their bullshit here we have enough problems with our own racist groups.
He has had people on his show who claim that race is linked to intelligence. I can’t lay any claim to know about this.
If there is scientific literature and data then it isn’t hate speech.
However, if you use that science to promote a political agenda, then indeed it could become hate speech
His contraversial interview on Race and IQ.
“Stefan Molyneux on Race and IQ (Pt. 2) – The Rubin Report”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0KKc6GbeNo
Ha ha Andy. And John Key when confronted by the BBC with the work of renowned fresh water scientist Mike Joy about the terrible state of our rivers, replied saying that scientists are like lawyers
and he can always find one to give an opposing view.
We live in a world of lies.
Christine…Spot on…you’ve hit the nail on the head…
“Among the worst of Molyneux’s sick allegations is that intelligence is related to skin colour and that brown skinned people are less intelligent
than white, ergo they are inferior. In my book that’s hate speech”.
Maori bashing is common here in NZ, and its the very same mob that played this card just a few weeks ago…Don Brash and his ilk love making the media any way they can. They hate difference. They are white supremacists pretending to support free speech. Brash attempted and failed to stop revelations about his bias being published, so much for free speech.
yeah racism is alive and well in NZ
I have 4 examples.
I’ve been lucky to have only seen 4 abused dogs, those chained to a kennel, not aloud inside and deprived of attention, warmth, ‘reasonable’ food, clean water, space, vet care. etc. The racial thing is, they all had Maori names!
As the grand daughter of a man who was on a watch list from 1914 and 1939 and nearly was imprisoned on Soames Island for being the son of a German I know the power of speech! The targets have changed but the hate speech is constant. People are swept away when they feel under attack and they will attack the targets who can’t fight back. It sickens me when nice white middle class people rabbit on about free speech as they do so from a position of privilege – they will never have to run from a crowd stirred up by speech against them.
Spot on, Lucy. My money is in the fact that the pro-“free speechers” here, many of whom are openly racist and anti–feminist, are white males.
Am I wrong?
Congrats Mr Trotter et al, these are the types you’ve aligned with. And by the way, where is Mr Trotter to debate with the alt-rightwingers who’ve turned up on this forum?? He said he wanted a “contest of ideas”, but he’s not turned up with his ideas.
My white mother was a refugee from Germany
Just FYI
Why did you have to tell us that your mom was white, would have told us if she was black? Are you using her to justify your strange behaviour.
But Wheeler – that’s what Molyneux does. He blames male violence on men’s mothers not treating them right when they were boys.
That really lets violent men off the hook which will be music to the ears of our world-leading abusive bullying battering murderous New Zealand men – It’s all mummy’s fault.
Molyneux seems to not understand that real men, grown-up men, take responsibility for their own behaviour – no wonder Kiwi weirdos are demanding that he come and say what he likes because he’s saying exactly what they want to hear – Eve made me bite the apple, God. Pathetic.
What does it matter? Literally every one on the planet is an undocumented migrant.
So you say, Andy. If that were true, wouldn’t you have learnt from your mother’s experiences?
And if she was a refugee, you seem not to have learned much empathy for other refugees. Why is that? Not because of religion or skin colour, surely??
Why do you assume that I do not have empathy for refugees? Seems like an awful lot of assumptions are being made around here
Because you’ve never expressed it, Andy. Quite the opposite in fact.
If you want to discuss refugees, I think my parents qualify better than most New Zealanders would ever understand.
My parents and their parents also experienced where “free speech” led to in the 1930s.
OK, I will express it then. I have empathy for refugees.
However, please note that many of the hundreds of thousands of people flooding into Europe are not refugees
“However, please note that many of the hundreds of thousands of people flooding into Europe are not refugees”
Evidence please?
So was my great grandmother Andy.
I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said that if everyone said what they thought, the streets would run with blood.
I believe that George quote describes nationalism, whereas patriotism is a love of one’s country. In that sense, I am very patriotic. Nevertheless, I also agree that dissent should not be confused with disloyalty, and that patriots should always be ready to criticize the government when they believe it is doing something wrong. By this we refine our country and make it better than it was in the past.
My money is in the fact that the pro-“free speechers” here, many of whom are openly racist and anti–feminist, are white males.
Am I wrong?
I hope you are, because I’d hate to think the only people giving a shit about freedom of speech are white males. Also: “white males” isn’t some kind of trump card you can wave when you have no argument, it’s just a piece of bigotry you don’t mind exposing.
No, Milt. Mjolnir is saying that straight white males are usually not the targets of neo-fascists. In fact, Southern and Molyneux agitate to protect the privilege of a white patriarchal, heterosexual society.
In case you missed it, those two also target trans people with their hate speech.
Where have they targeting trans people?
Lauren has interviewed a trans person on her show
ref: http://www.canadalandshow.com/lauren-southern-banned-by-patreon/
And;
ref: https://torontoist.com/2016/10/when-rebel-reporters-fake-being-trans-theyre-not-doing-journalism/
There’s more on the internet, reporting her activities.
She is mocking Canada’s ridiculous laws regarding gender expression, where one can simply fill in a form to identify as a different gender. This isn’t the same as mocking transgender people
Mocking things you find ridiculous isn’t “hate speech.”
Perhaps you should ask transgender people if they find it hateful.
It’s easy to dismiss it as just “mocking” when the person on the receiving end suffers the humiliation as a personal attack.
But that’s what several mean when they suggest that it’s easy for white heterosexual men to be casual about all this. It’s not our identity that is just being “mocked”.
That the problem with Southern and Molyneux – they attempt to trvialise hate speech and then others dismiss it as a bit of light hearted “mocking”.
Too many trans people have ended their own lives because of “mocking”, bullying, and ignorant attacks.
I’d never mock people with a psychological disorder. But your examples referred to “non-binary” enthusiasts, and it’s beyond me how anyone could resist mocking those guys.
Perhaps you can explain why you and other free speech advocates think that mocking people for who they are is ok? (And if they don’t, they’re remarkably silent on this point. Cat-got-their-tongue-for-free-speech?)
If that’s what free speech is for, it’s a poor use of the end product of 3.8 billion years of evolution, wouldn’t you say, Milt?
It’s also a pathetically cheap shot at extremely vulnerable people.
But what would we know about it. We’re hetero white men. Privileged, you might even say.
I can’t explain things you’ve made up. I don’t mock people for who they are and wouldn’t claim it was OK to do so. Taking the piss out of other people’s more foolish ideas though, that’s one of life’s great pleasures and I wouldn’t want to be part of whatever Puritan tyranny attempted to ban it.
You “take pleasure” in mocking other peoples’ sexual identity?
I fail to understand why gender identity is a “foolish idea”. Perhaps you might care to explain why you’re entitled to do that – and then get peeved when other’s point to you as a “privileged hetero white man”?
One thing that has become crystal clear to me in this “free speech” debate is that much of this “free speech” is a license to denigrate others who are different to you and me. It’s amazing what bubbles to the surface when the lid is lifted.
You “take pleasure” in mocking other peoples’ sexual identity?
Nope. Well, not if the vague term “sexual identity” means what I think it does.
…get peeved when other’s point to you as a “privileged hetero white man”?
I don’t get peeved by accurate statements, but I do get peeved by people presenting that one as though it were an argument.
Also: this is quite a horrifying statement:
…much of this “free speech” is a license to denigrate others who are different to you and me.
Yes, a human being does have a licence to consider someone else’s views foolish, and anyone who wants to impose the kind of society that would withdraw that licence needs to be prevented from achieving that society, forcibly if necessary.
I have to state my view that making it legally permissible to call yourself a man when you are a woman, or calling yourself a woman when you were borne a man is as perverse a representation of truth and reality as can be dreamed up. No attitude but derision is applicable. And imposing a reversal of nature on a child is the ultimate in child abuse.
We are departing from any hold on reality. On the basis of this kind of inversion of fact there can be no reality to cling to. Nothing is real. Up is down , left is right, water might burn , pigs can fly. Your mind is completely set free. You can believe whatever you want and no facts can interfere.
D J S
In which case you’re ignoring biological realities. Gender-shifting does happen in nature.
Do you also deny the validity of same-sex relationships, David?
Your belief of binary sexuality/gender, without considering the spectrum of human sexuality is chauvinistic to put it mildly.
You are denying others their identity based on your (religious?) beliefs.
I thought we were moving past that. It appears I was wrong.
David Stone, do you also put down homosexuality as “perverse”?
“Yes, a human being does have a licence to consider someone else’s views foolish, and anyone who wants to impose the kind of society that would withdraw that licence needs to be prevented from achieving that society, forcibly if necessary.”
Tyranny of and by and for the Majority, Milt? Where does respect and equality for minorities enter this black & white worldview of yours. All very nice and well if youre the privileged white hetero male, but not so comfy if youre an immigrant, muslim, trans, or any number of other people whove been dumped on in the name of free speech.
Could you outline your proposed alternative to permitting people to hold opinions about things?
Mjolnir
No . I don’t understand it. But then I don’t understand why a woman would find me attractive in that personal a way either. I am just very grateful that some do. So I’m in no position to criticise or comment on other peoples
attractions.
Mjolnir is saying that straight white males are usually not the targets of neo-fascists.
The first people that actual fascists rounded up and executed or put in concentration camps were communists, most of them straight white men. Southern and Molyneux, for all the unpleasant nature of their output, are not fascists.
In any case, this isn’t a discussion about who’s got more impressive victim credentials, it’s a discussion about principle. If anyone has an argument for allowing councils to decline venues based on not liking the hirer’s political opinions that wouldn’t also allow conservative councils to decline venues to left-wingers, indigenous activists, feminists and atheists, I’d be willing to give it a hearing, but so far no-one’s got an argument, just a lot a lot of “whose side are you on?” rhetoric.
MJOLNIR is cleverly using the race card when cornered by stating “white males” now that was not very bright.
quote from MJOLNIR
That was predictable.
Yes Wheeler and Lucy – the power of speech. Shakespeare did it better than these two, but the speech is very much the key thing here.
The nice white middle class people who espouse these idiots, are the same people who get apoplectic about Treaty Settlements, they feel hard done by. In my family it’s the well-heeled ones, and I can predict their views on just about everything.
The awful thing about these two and all the fuss they’re causing is that they are incredibly mediocre; I first saw them by chance on a clip from Hyde Park and she was performing for the cameras about a lost hat – which, when found, didn’t even warrant her degree of melodrama at all.
She’s nothing, and he may be seriously thick.
I agree that they’re mediocre – Southern gives the impression of trolling people for money and Molyneux is like a living illustration of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Fortunately though, society doesn’t base its rules on who’s allowed to hire a council venue on our opinions of the quality of the speakers.
Milt, that depends on what you define as “quality”.
Would you be ok with ISIS or AMBLA hiring a hall to “spread their message”? If those two groups are an extreme example, what limits (if any) would you apply?
If “free speech” is unconstrained, that makes a mockery of our hate-speech laws. In which case anything goes.
The question then becomes, what is the purpose of that “free speech”? What are the speakers advocating? What are they directly or indirectly exhorting their supporters to do?
“Free speech” is not black and white. Especially if you’re an ethnic group, religious minority, LGBT, etc. To those people in society, “free speech” isn’t free at all and they pay the costs of heightened tensions.
Would you be ok with ISIS or AMBLA hiring a hall to “spread their message”?
Depends, doesn’t it? If Da’esh want to hire a hall to tell people about the delights of fundamentalist Islam, or NAMBLA want to hire a hall to agitate for the age of consent to be lowered, what basis is there for rejecting their request beyond not liking what they’re saying? On the other hand, if Da’esh want the hall so they can tell local Muslims they have a duty to kill as many kuffir as they can, or NAMBLA want it so they can urge people to rape children, then we’re talking criminal charges rather than hall hire.
If “free speech” is unconstrained, that makes a mockery of our hate-speech laws.
I’d put it the other way round: hate speech laws are a mockery of free speech.
The question then becomes, what is the purpose of that “free speech”?
The purpose according to whom? Who gets to officially define what the purpose of a particular speech is, and decide on that basis whether to permit the person to express their opinion or not? Do you think Colin Craig, Brian Tamaki or Bob McCroskie would share your opinion of what constitutes an acceptable purpose for someone’s speech? Why would it be you rather than one of them who gets to decide?
She was responding to the claim Jesus was a homosexual and conducted a social experiment – clearly she was right, there is a double standard. Shame John!
Indeed. It was obvious trolling with a predictable outcome, but hardly incitement to religious hatred
Indeed what? Like the old saying goes it’s easier to fool some one than convince them they’ve been fooled.
Southern and Molyneux are trolling the west. The jokes on you Andy. All thier antics say is that the West has lost faith in god and Muslims haven’t.
Carful what memes you use. They’re for people who read the whole book. Not for cherry pickers.
“The jokes on you Andy.”
Haha I get it.
I presume that you are in favour of rape then, Sam?
Again Andy. You said it. Not me.
All thier antics say is that the West has lost faith in god and Muslims haven’t.
Obviously you (and they) know next to nothing about the prevalence of religious belief in the USA.
Really, how so? We don’t call Mesopotamia the cradle of civilisation for nothing. If not for Islam we’d have terrible doctors. Early Islam promoted some of the best medical minds to fruition, at a time when the christian doctors still believed in the entrapment of demons in the skull. Even today it would be difficult differentiating western medicines from black magic what with all the mark ups on basic generic drugs. Even Minto says they whip up vial racial hatred in this country.
Also PLEASE define Christianity merica style, you clearly have NO idea what it means. It’s super annoying having to explain shit to people in my class.
And just because you aren’t aware of evidence or my reasoning doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, that’s just argumentum ad ignorantiam except you’re attacking a broad statement as a direct retort to another argument.
Collaborations demand cooperation, don’t you think?
I have zero idea what these two are on about (white supremacists maybe?) because I have little interest and actually in my view probably a photogenic millennial trying to make a buck with the latest fad, identity politics.
I am seeing the most anger and aggression whipped up by the so called lefty liberals who if they were not publicising these two so much, would mean that nobody would have heard of these nobodies.
How did Trump do so well, used the liberal identity policies “Hillary’ globalism and identity politics to actually make people vote for him in protest. If he had just been a rich billionaire with bad hair who was on TV, and got not publicity and riots, he would never had made it into office!
It’s the fucking liberals who get their knickers in a twist over ‘speech’ rather than what the fuck terrible things going on under our noses, many of them not condemned by our own liberal and democratic parties (Obama and drone assassinations come to mind) that are keeping the right wingers in power!
This type of thing is a diversion to keep the lefties and Media excited while they don’t bother protesting and publicising real things going on.
The left need to stay a bit more focused, stop being hypocrites and actually protest about REAL and actual things going on in the world and change them for the better, not get sidetracked by pretty folks with guns and offensive slogans DESIGNED to get publicity and to distract!
Listened to these two on youtube.They are both not very bright, similar to students in what used to be called special classes for backward students, some of whom were successful or made a name for themselves in spite of their intellectual challenges. (ACT ex leaders and their supporters included).
Good luck to those similarly challenged who will pay $79 odd to listen to them, if anyone is foolish enough to give them a venue.
Minto’s definitely jumped the springbok with this one.
The demagogues of fascism in Italy, Spain, Germany arose from within those societies not from without. They were figures that took power through the Governments of those countries, except for Franco who was a military figure but had the backing of politicians. Mino has a loose grasp of history.
Whats your point?
No, we shouldn’t be afraid of Islam, Andy. You’re ridiculous.
Islam is an ideology that treats women as second class citizens under Sharia. It thinks that homosexuals should be put to death. It treats Jews and Christians and second class citizens that should pay a tax (Jizya)
Rape is endemic to Islamic culture. Rape is now widespread in European countries that have imported thousands of Muslim migrants, e.g Germany, Sweden and the UK
British MP Naz Shah tweeting that women should shut up about sexual assault in the interests of diversity
Nothing to be afraid of. But, then I’m not likely to get raped.
Really?!
You must’ve missed this, and several thousand other similar cases, Andy;
ref: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/catholic-priest-child-rape-accident-sex-abuse-delaware-john-a-sarro-delaware-a8191186.html
Whataboutism gets a bit boring.
Anyway, enjoy your dhimmitude
To left wing Haters: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE LABOUR MOVEMENT AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE & DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!
“Whataboutism”?
Nope. But pitting one monotheistic belief against another is boring. History is/was full of it.
Jesus was a man of peace. Mohammed was a murderer, a rapist and a paedophile
Again Andy. If you see something that some one didn’t write. Then you put it there.
Yeah, well. I kinda hate how people think “Wow Jacinda is so weak because National MPs stood up for corporates while saying they where pro working class” When in reality, it just shows how much stronger they’ve gotten. Simon thought they’d be helpful when he was under the assumption Jacinda was > Commie. Lol.
“Islam is an ideology that treats women as second class citizens under Sharia. It thinks that homosexuals should be put to death”
Yeah, thank the Flying Spaghetti Monstrr that the Biblical teaching on women and homosexuals is waaaaaay more liberal, right Andy??
Right, Andy!!!!!!
The UK recently had an Iman discuss whether gays should be thrown off cliffs, burned to death or have walls dropped on them
Needless to say his views are accommodated, as the UK is a multicultural society, and cultures that think that gays should be thrown off buildings (and actually do) should be respected
JANIO
I am not convinced we should not be weary after watching this Islam religion is doing lots of ‘racial/religious cleansing all around the globe today.
“Actions speak louder than words”
There are people participating in this discussion that I would like to ‘ignore’ on a permanent basis, as is possible on other sites that invite discussion, for example, the Washington Post. It would make reading the comments section here wholly more enjoyable, informative and thought provoking. This isn’t so much about avoiding opposing ideology; it’s more about not having to waste time skim-reading nonsense.
Martyn, would you consider this, if crowd-funding made it possible?
It would be much easier if we shut down this blog altogether
Then your life would be much more meaningful and enjoyable
Rape and paedophile advocates have plenty of other channels on the World Wide Web
Andy, “Rape and pedophile,” just call the god dam cops already would you and stop fucking playing around with this shit you moron.
Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6 and consummated the marriage when she was 9. He instructed his men to rape the wives of captured men. This is an historical fact, in the Hadiths
Mohammed is the perfect man to Moslems. Hence, you see child marriage in Iran, for example, and in Germany about 1000 men are married to children.
Women under Sharia Law require 4 male witnesses to acquit a rape victim, or 8 women (since a woman is worth half a man under Sharia)
There are over 30 Sharia courts in the UK
I’m still not sure why Social Justice Warriors are defending this
I think what racist divisive hate mongers like you do Andy is distort and cherry pick the facts you want to fit the narrative you need.
You ignore the golden age of Islam, you ignore the vast scientific advances that golden age produced and you instead choose to focus on the demoted mutations of Islam we have festering now.
Why do we have these demented versions now? Because the West via America, when it’s not propping up Authoritarian versions of Islam in Saudi Arabia, are inspiring it in Iran by causing coups and propping up dictators.
Those we prop up or attack use these mutated versions to cause immense damage – if we want to stop terrorism, then we in the West need to stop propping up the systems that cause that terrorism.
What you seek to do Andy is exploit peoples ignorance of what we in the West do in the middle East to blame an entire religion/culture of people. These mutations of Islam more closely resemble the KKK than mainstream muslims.
You have an agenda to spread hate Andy, perhaps you need to evaluate your motivations rather than pretending you are a giver of knowledge here.
You have no understanding of what really motivates Islamic terrorism – they aren’t reacting against Western interference in their countries so much as against the modern Western ideology of secularism, sexual equality, freedom of religion and such like which is a direct threat to their medieval world view.
They are traditionalists fighting to defend an extreme version of Islam, and would be around whether Israel existed or not, and whether the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan or not. They have existed in one form or another for hundreds of years.
Andy have you heard of ‘spiritual marriage’ the Mormons have to numerous wives in the US, secretly here in NZ Inc? Or are you selectively attacking Muslims who may not follow the law of the land that they are according to their belief told to follow?
@John Stroh
“There are people participating in this discussion that I would like to ‘ignore’ on a permanent basis,
So how long does it take you to read the name at the top of each comment?
Let us also hope that none of your Marxist ideas never gain traction here in NZ, after all Marxist ideology was responsible for far more deaths in the 20th Century than Nazism.
We actually bench mark it around Maoist communism and you can quote Nobel laureate Amartya K. Sen conclusions in his essays that won him the 1998 Nobel price in economics.
“For every skeleton China put away in its closet over 10 years, India did in 50 years.” Don’t hate on me if the quote isn’t exact but it’s about 5/1.
And for every skeleton China out away in its closet the USA did so in 80 years. Major factor that I believe is skewing population numbers is immigration. They say U.S population 325.7mln. It’s probably 350mln if you include undocumented migrant workers.
John you made a blue there.
Washinton Post is a trumpet for the ‘Washington Swamp’ the largest most powerful war-mongering group on this panet so we dont want to add the media into our blogsite as we like to keep The daily Blog open to individials not ‘power broker lobbiyists who want to start another war for their munitions industrial buddies.
John Minto along with thousands of us in 1981 protested apartheid, he and we can be proud of our stance. Great work John. Have you, or any of us recently made any enquiry or protest about the ejection of white farmers from their land? It would appear Southern has. Does this make her a neo Fascist? Are we displaying some clear double standards?
On that note huge crowds in London demonstrated against the leader of a democracy where women have equal rights, where being gay is not a mortal crime, where religious freedom is constitutional, where slavery is banned, where adulterers do not get stoned. Less than a week later a Middle Eastern emir visited, whose kingdom was the exact opposite. No protest.
Clear cases of double standards. I think the Left has lost all credibility.
She is a journalist, author and documentary maker.
Her feature is a doco called ‘Farmlands’ – highlighting white genocide in South Africa.
FARMLANDS (2018) Official Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=114&v=a_bDc7FfItk
Lauren Southern website.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCla6APLHX6W3FeNLc8PYuvg
Nick – just do a wee google before you mouth off.
I was on the march in Auckland that was opposing Mugabe and his policies in Zimbabwe. The march was organised by Minto himself.
I am always astonished that people can criticise Minto and other prominent activists for not doing something about EVERYTHING.
Step up and organise Nick J against or for the things you believe in!
MIchael, Read again before you say mouth off. I asked a question, I like the answer, that is reassuring.
And yes, I organise a lot, but hell I just don’t get the Lefts becoming the mirror of all that we have fought for. Which is why I won’t march to that step any more.
So dont complain, Nick J. If youre not going to protest against injustice, get out of tge way of those who do take up the struggle!!
@ Frank
No tab to click on to reply above.
No I’m not religious. In fact I have come to believe religion does more harm in the world than good. Good religious people use their religion for good, Bad people put religion to bad use.
I think society should be as accommodating as it can to people’s desires and needs especially where it causes no harm to others. Yes I grew up on a farm and homosexual rape is common among farm animals anyway, and presumably among wild animals as well. It is often used as an expression of domination among animals.
But that doesn’t mean that you have to pretend that the physical facts are not as they are. There lies madness.
D J S
David, your inference that homosexuality equates to rape is apalling, as is your transphobia. No, physical facts are “not as they are”, because that negates the full spectrum of human sexuality. You may be heterosexual, but the rest of the human population runs the full rainbow of sexuaity and gender.
Denying the reality of transgenderism is your own denial of facts as they are. I heard the same bullshit arguments as yiurs back in the 1980s. They failed then and they will fail now because imposing your narrow prejuduced view on others is based on irrationality and nothing else. Do some research of sexual dimorphism and educate yourself.
I did not intend that inference. The observations of animal behaviour don’t need to imply that. Obviously that is not the nature of most human homosexual behaviour.
I have only addressed my arguments to simple biological facts.
Please don’t make assumptions .
D J S
I did not intend that inference. The observations of animal behaviour don’t need to imply that. Obviously that is not the nature of most human homosexual behaviour.
I have only addressed my arguments to simple biological facts.
Please don’t make assumptions .
D J S
Sorry Mjolnir but no amount of research into dimorphism is likely to persuade me that an animal naturally able to conceive and bear and suckle children is not a woman or that an animal naturally able to impregnate a woman and quite unable to bear children is other than a man. There is no prejudice in this except against bullshit.
D J S
I watched some of Molyneux’s talk from Melbourne yesterday, and in half an hour he didn’t even mention Islam, so I think we are chasing strawmen here
Link or it never happened.
It obviously happened otherwise we wouldn’t be talking about it
It never happened. This entire experience is a mirage
They got you.
Congratulations, Martyn and Chris, your pontificating about free speech has delivered screeds of comments filled with islamophobia, racism, misogyny, and transphobia. Your blog is swimming in the sewer with Whaleoil and Kiwiblog. If this is the product of your fetishization of free speech, your welcome to every bit of prejudice and ignorance it vomits up. As for Trotter wanting to debate the altright, hes nowhere to be seen onthis forum.
When you’re puzzled, and then someone dismisses your amazement because you never produced anything in your life.
i.e: -This song sucks.
-Well have you ever written a song?
I automatically assume anyone doing this is 9 years old. Weirdest part is that if someone at a restaurant didn’t like their food and you said “Well have you ever been a chef?,” everyone would rightfully look at you as if you were insane, but it’s apparently acceptable to do this with things like race and religion.
You lot all seem to be experts on Israel
You mistook the Hebrew homeland of Canan for the Israelites homeland and have attitude. Might help your cause if you educate yourself my young boy.
Why do you assume that I am uneducated?
Why do assume my age?
Why do you assume my gender?
The function of the humble question mark is used by uneducated normies who are in great need of educating.
Sam, like most here you are an arrogant cretin who can’t even string together a sentence let alone an argument
You mean John Mintos appeal doesn’t stay the same.
“Why do you assume that I am uneducated?
Why do assume my age?
Why do you assume my gender?”
In reverse order,
1. Your name.
2. Your childishness.
3. I assume that’s a rhetorical question.
My name doesn’t assume my gender.
Lauren Southern is a man, in case you’d forgotten
You mean names confuse you easily.
“Lauren Southern is a man, in case you’d forgotten”
Are you drunk? Stupid? Trolling? All three??
John Minto was correct, this exercise in “free speech” was simply a middle class wankfest and alt-right trolls and other assorted neo-fascists have obliged. (Can’t blame them for that.)
So this is why occupies the minds of some left-wing pundits when a Labour-led government takes power, political mind-porn.
Reading through all the comments on this blog you need stamina. A few trolls in a anti-Islam frenzy of hate speech. Agree with Mjolnir – a lot of confusion about free speech, which has opened up this hate speech.
I didn’t read every comment in here but I did wrestle with the “it” known as Andy. This whole episode had “it” typing in tongues. Just in this thread alone he’s using labels like race, rape, gays, pedophiles, Islam and you can go down the list. And it’s got nothing to do with anything. Even Andy itself says it’s one big Straw man. “It” shows zero remorse. “It” just has no sole. “It” is not human. This is why the white supremacist is called the devil the bible speaks of. “It” is just that simple, that’s who they are. So Andy is not bothered with indiscriminate IDF murdering Palestinian civilians while Andy is just mocking every one. That’s not normal ladies and gentlemen.
And people all over the world are wondering what’s going on and Andy wants to hide all this from you. Ladies and gentlemen this is a legacy for them white supremacist alt-right, what ever you want to call them. This is who they always have been. They started out as colonialists, murdered black/brown/indigenous people, they made murdered Māori, they took land from the islands, they took land from everybody. White Supremacists, and I make the distinction white supremacists did nothing honourable. The gave the flu to Māori, they gave small pox to indigenous Australians. Anything that you look at in there history has not been anything of peace. Nothing of trying to have a spirit of brotherhood and working together. All you see in the history of the coloniser is death, destruction, disease, rape, pillaging, indulging. That’s all you see and it’s coming out in Andys comments. And they don’t want to discuss any of this with convenient excuses of well “that was in the past.” And if it was truly in the past I wouldn’t even be mentioning it because I would say, “you know what the children of those people are making it right,” and they don’t even practice any of that so why the fuck are we even discussing any of this except from an historic sense???
But no the same things they where thinking back in the day, they’re thinking today. The same things they were doing to confiscate land they’re doing today. And some of these guys are apart of the Israeli lobby and the MAGA crowd. Before some of you say he must be from the left or something dumb like that because of supporters of white supremacy but atleast I’m talking about the ones that are open about it. BUT nothing has changed with these people. You can go back to the 80’s, 70’s, 60’s and find the same old story’s, you’ll find another 18 year old Māori arrested and in prisoned on false charges. Now this has nothing to do with public safety but in the mindset of a white supremacist they’ve always had on the books the casual arrest warrants where you can arrest brown folk with out worrying about prosecution. These are laws that may not be wholly intact now BUT this is how they act to this day when it comes to brown people. I read Andy say it’s not murder if a Palestinian approaches Israelis boarder walls but it’s how white power colonials operate today.
I told Andy that the joke was on him. White supremacy is an inheritance to them. They pass it down to there children because they did not pass down to there children the evil that it is, the children would not do this. If it was truly something in the past and we need to leave it where it’s at, well that evil would have died along time ago. But no things like Andy make sure that evil is still here today, that’s why you’ve got guys going on P fuelled rampages cutting off woman’s limbs. Don’t believe these guys when they say it’s all in the past. NO, it’s them that never let it go because they never taught there children not to hate Māori, not to hate Pacific Islanders, not to hate Asians, not to hate Chinese, not to hate Russians and not to hate who ever else that is outside of themselves. This is what they teach. And then it’s a problem when we are pointing something out that’s right there.
We’re telling the truth. We’re not telling lies. Show me where I am lying in the area of what we’re talking about because I have story after story, historical reference after historical reference to prove what we are saying. As Childhood Gambino would say this is New Zealand: https://youtu.be/VYOjWnS4cMY
“It” has no sole. Actually Sam that is “soul”
Anyway, claiming that I am not human is what the, erm, Nazis did
We’re telling the truth. We’re not telling lies.
You called me a White Supremacist. That is a lie
I don’t teach my kids to hate anyone, and I don’t hate anyone either.
I have been criticising an IDEOLOGY, not people
Please stop lying
If Sam, you up lumping me (or it, as you prefer) with these mythical beings, then you are lying.
All of it. I don’t need to be specific. ALL OF IT is a lie.
I am not a “white supremacist”. This is becoming like some kind of parody site. You guys need to get out more.
You seem to be a wannabe gollywog hug teddy bear supremacist to me.
Yes, you’re a racist, Andy. Your crude attacks on muslims and Islam is racism dressed up. You rarely if evrr point to failings in any other religion, and the christian religions have massive failings, too numrrous to list. How often is bigotry against same-sex people excused as “freedom of religious belief”, which you are comfortable with?
And just where is Chris Trotter and Martyn in all this alt-right much raking on the Daily blog?? Didn’t Trotter say he wanted to “debate” instead if ban? Well, he’s been noticeably SILENT in countering the alt-right’s toxic comments on TDB. It’s as if he’s kicked the wasp’s nest and then stepped back, letting others clean up the mess. No wonder I’m losing patience with this forum.
“I have been criticising an IDEOLOGY, not people”
Yes, you’ve cloaked your racism nicely Andy. But your critics are 100percent correct, you’re engaging in outright racism. The only thing I don’t get is why you’re bothering to hide it.
Let the idiots speak, but also let the opponents protest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vod5wi-88yY
Where is the NZ Inc ANTIFA, do you have ANTIFA, or are you so weak and useless, and hypocritical, you may talk and do damned nothing?
It is ridiculous what goes on here online.
If you oppose go and damned well PROTEST, you have the freedom to PROTEST!
This is a losing discussion, a totally losing argument, there is only the chance to boost the right wingers all over, if you carry on to block them full stop.
Go and argue, go and protest, and go and take action, do not cowardly back off, as this non existent left movement in NZ Inc does.
Where are YOU ‘leftists’? I never see or hear you, where are you?
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