So Southern and Molyneux might be coming – what do we do now?


Protesters at Lauren Southern event clash with riot police outside Melbourne venue
Protesters have clashed with riot and mounted police outside a Melbourne venue hosting Canadian far-right speaker Lauren Southern.

More than 100 protesters blocked the Hume Highway outside Somerton’s La Mirage Reception and Convention Centre ahead of Ms Southern’s Friday night event.

At one point, the group rushed at a bus filled with attendees, slapping it and chanting “surround the Nazi bus” while being mooned by a man inside it.

Inside, Ms Southern’s speech was interrupted by protesters with banners and chanting “racism off our streets”, according to the Whistleblowers, Activists and Citizens Alliance group.

The young provocateur is known for her controversial views on multiculturalism, Islam and feminism and was banned from entering the UK in March.

Every act of violence feeds this – an endless yo-yo of contempt and spite manifesting every injury into martyrdom and self righteous justification to demean and denounce the other in a collapsing cycle forever human born.

There is a shiver of the shadow of the 1920s that hangs across all of this.

As we pause to consider how best to respond to these crypto-fascists appearing here in NZ – appreciate every violent protest merely builds them – we’ve been successfully trolled by this pair, will we give them more recruits or less?

Phil Goff was right to ban these crypto-fascsists from  a publicly funded venue, but his need to appeal to liberal Auckland at a time when his Leadership as Mayor was eroding him support from the Left threw a gas bomb on this and allowed these Hate Merchants to play the free speech martyrs.

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It has given them a marketing coup and I would not be surprised if Southern and Molyneux have had an enormous spike in youtube views from NZ.

There is an argument that we should not platform these crypto-fascists, I say we’ve lost that opportunity by being successfully trolled by these two. I believe the best way to combat this venom is to stand and debate our values because you don’t beat protoNazi’s from trigger free safe spaces with built in emotional support peacock petting zones.

Debating crypto-fascists is NOT about turning them, it is about stopping them recruiting our fellow citizens. The economic shock waves of the next global financial collapse feed the far right narrative, if you think this debate is going away, you are wrong.

We must protest them and we should try and engage in a way that dismantles their argument, not add to their martyrdom.






  1. The best way to counter their hate speech?

    Assemble New Zealanders of every race, creed, colour, sexual orientation, etc and ring their venue holding hands. Show them what an inclusive New Zealand Aotearia looks like.

    Indulge in mass hugging and singing.

    Don’t scream, yell, intimidate or otherwise obstruct anyone going into the venue. In fact, welcome them and hand out flowers. Ignore provocations.

    Hippyish, I know. But if we want to show what tolerance looks like – I can’t think of a better way to do it.

    Countering hate with love is a damned powerful message to send those two.

    It will eat them up alive.

    • Ah la Prauge 1968, flowers in Russian soldiers rifle barrels. Was there in 1989, similar story but much better result. Don’t think this lots coming with tanks & bayonets though. Best solution is too ban all foreign prophets, regardless of their race, colour, creed, gender or ideological leanings from peddling their extreme propaganda in Godzone. Who will decide? The exalted & worldly wise few without fault or sin, as the casting of stones is a deadly serious business.

    • Ah la the Russian invasion of Prauge in 1968 where people put flowers in the Russian soldiers rifle barrels. I was there during the tumultuous velvet revolution is 1989 when a similar story was unfolding. The end result was a vast improvement on 1968. Don’t think this Canadian lot is coming with tanks & bayonets though. Best solution is too ban all foreign prophets, regardless of their race, colour & creed from peddling extremist propaganda in Godzone. Who will be the gatekeeper? The exalted & worldly wise few who are without fault, as casting stones is a deadly serious business.

    • If the FIANZ spokesmen will all hold hands with trans people of colour, and Dr. Mohammed Anwar Shahib will hold hands with an unmarried, unchaperoned woman on either side of him (one of whom is Jewish), while Valerie Morse holds hands with conservative armed forces veterans, only then we can show them that their opponents are more tolerant.

  2. It would have been best to ignore these people from the outset, if your hair is on fire over free speech, choose a different battle to make your point (Chris Trotter hello), start with te reo maybe, or our completely stilted rich white Auckland mainstream media.
    All this self righteous angst on free speech just increases their coverage , protesting makes these two look important.

    Stupidly, if these hate speech merchants make a connection with just one listener, they will have been successful in spreading their disease.

  3. In the sixties and early seventies publicly funded venues were only for the Right. I was a protester for most of the sixties and early seventies , and the nearest I got to a publicly funded venue was to be thrown violently out of them by the police. My venue was the streets and in particular Albert Park in Auckland.So I am somewhat bemused by the championing of exclusion from said premises by personages who claim to be on the left. Those who would limit our freedom of speech will find it is a two edged sword.

    • You may remember this; in the seventies the ChCh City Council banned the ChCh wizard from speaking in Cathedral square. He replied by standing on his ladder with tape over his mouth & gave a spirited silent speech. A very funny moment, the rest is history. This debate is nothing new.

      • Looks like my comments are no longer being posted. (comment to self as this will probably will not see light of day). Surprised it’s taken so long, must have been my mention of wizardly oratory that finally brought down the left leaning censors hammer; so much for free speech in heavily moderated cyber space; so I guess it’s back to the streets where a raucous voice & body language is the name of the game.

        • Good to see my comments (including revisions) have now been published. I take my criticism back & it’s good to know my wilderness voice can still be heard here on TDB, much to the dismay of many I’m sure.

    • @ Historian Pete … Our paths must have crossed many times during the sixties and seventies at protests then, in Auckland and Albert Park. I carried on protesting right in to the 2000s.

      I’m a bit long in the tooth now and not as agile as I used to be then, so much of my protesting is through my keyboard these days. But I do support those who are prepared to stand up and go forward and make their views known, preferably in a passive way, without resorting to agitation.

      Southern and Molyneaux must be reminded not all Kiwis support their repugnant bigoted perspectives.

  4. So how should we defeat these Crypto fascists with out feeding their martyrdom.

    You may remember Martyn back in 2012 when a similar chain of events was attempted by Islamphobic Racists from Australia who linked up with the fundamemtalist Christian movement to do a tour here, but were successfully defeated by a counter campaign for inclusiveness and understanding.

    As a result the Islamaphobic event withered and died and ran out of steam.

    Rather than confront these fascists directly and give them the notoriety they seek. We could do the same again.

    We have already been given the opening to do this. The New Zealand Immigration Department has banned and delayed the granting of visas to Humanitarian Heroes wanting to speak here.

    We should hold a rally where empty seats for these banned humanitarian speakers are at the front and they have to give their speeches by Skype as we did with Edward Snowden.

    We should approach the Auckland City Council to give us the Auckland Town Hall for this event. And bill it as an Inclusiveness Rally Against intolerance and racism.

    Hopefully such a meeting will dwarf any pitiable meeting that Southern and Molynieux can organise.

    Humanists conference organisers shocked at Immigration NZ denials for “hero” members

    • Those banned from the Auckland Humanist International Conference are the two edged sword I was telling you about. I am not surprised !!!

      • Those who call for free speech for fascists refuse to acknowledge that there is no level playing field. There is a long standing double standard that confirms the racist nature of our border control laws. Where fascists and hatemongers (as long as they are white) have ease of entry. But Muslims and non-Europeans are routinely discriminated against.

        • Sadly,Jenny, free speech for far-right-wingers is never “free”. Someone eventually ends up paying for it when some neo-fascist acts on the speech they’ve been listening to, and people are attacked or lives are lost. Andre Brevik, Timothy McVeigh, Thomas Mair, et al, are evidence of that.

          We appear to be ‘fetishising’ some notion of right to “free speech” regardless of consequences – just as our American cuzzies worship their “right to bear arms” (regardless of consequences).

        • @ JENNY re “racist nature of our border control laws. Where fascists and hatemongers (as long as they are white) have ease of entry”

          …actually this betrays your racism…most countries have border controls including Israel, India , China , Japan….to mention but a few…and they are definitely ‘racist’ as you define it…some would redefine it as ‘cultural’

          …or do you advocate open borders for all Western ‘white ‘ countries then?…like Soros and some old Trotsyists who have lost the plot?

    • “Islamophobic Racists”

      What is it then? Islam isn’t a race.

      I am not Islamophobic. This implies an irrational fear of something. My fear of Islam is perfectly rational

      Islam, at least as a political system, is an ideology incompatible with western liberal democracy
      It is an ideology that practices gender apartheid, considers itself supremacist with regard to other religions and non-believers, etc

      If you guys want to engage in cultural relativism and defend those that execute rape victims, for example, please be more explicit so that society knows who the true enemies of freedom and democracy are

        • NZ also cancelled the talk by Ayaan Hirshi Ali
          She is a former Muslim and victim of FGM

          Is she also a fascist?

        • You didn’t address his point whatsoever. Is, iyo, Islam generally realistically ever going to be compatible with our Western social democracy? If so, who do you think needs to compromise; Islam or us?

          • There are many muslims in NZ. They are perfectly compatible with our society. The same couldnt be said of settlers who came to Aotearoa and dispossessed of tangata whenua of most of their land and their culture. They werent even fucken allowed to speak their own language, ffs!!!!!!! So when it comes to intolerance, weve had more from British settlers than latecomers who assimilate very well.

      • Don’t kid yourself Andy you might think that you haven’t PHOBIA type behavior against Islam whom by the way originated in Arab lands like the Jewish religion. Oh that right Jews and Muslim are relatives from the same father but different mothers??

        So that means if primary patriarch, Abram (renamed ‘Abraham’ later) was born in “Ur of the Chaldees.” Ur was the capital city of Sumer, present day Southern Iraq then that means that he was an Arab that was responsible for cultivating the monotheistic religion including Christianity funny how Islam is to be feared because it values are not compatible with your christian western world.

  5. Phil Goff just banned them to get good publicity for himself and turn the attention away from his secret reports about billion dollar stadiums that laughably had to be hidden and redacted from his own councillors and ratepayers, so freedom of speech and transparency is something he seems to struggle with.

    But wait, lovely opportunity to yet again fill the lawyers coffer’s with ratepayer cash, by using Phils own views to ban some group that nobody had even heard of before Phil Goff inadvertently started his free publicity campaign for them.

    Banning people for speaking their views should not be the role of council. If they breach the laws while here (hate speech) then that is the time the POLICE then arrest them.

    At present many genuine human rights activists seemed to being banned from attending other countries to speak so it is a slippery slope to start a pre emptive bans based on not liking what someone has to say, or that they might incite protests!

    • +100 SAVENZ…well said ( Phil Goff , former supporter of Roger Douglas
      and Rogernomics, is nothing if not a survivor)

  6. it will be interesting to see what others come up with, “practical leadership for practical action” is required here, tough talk from keyboards is one thing, though necessary, with all the online ideological to and fro on this issue of giving filthy neo fascists freedom of speech

    personally I hope numbers are willing to put some boots on and join a demo, or help shadow and annoy these two from arrival to departure, and that a few workers and business owners deny them service…and make their stay “memorable” in unpleasant ways

    ultimately it is about making the clear link for lots of younger New Zealanders, between the nazis that older NZers know quite a bit about, and what these shitheads really have in store for people–and it is not freedom of association and assembly–be assured of that!

    • What we should be doing is listening carefully to what these people say and are saying

      ….and put our thinking-caps on

      …and engage critical faculties

      ….and question more?

      shouting them down is not really an option because it denies them free speech

      …how many here and elsewhere actually know what these people are saying and why they have a following?

  7. No-platforming is what the Aussie protestors are doing, its not Goff or govt that no-platforms. What Goff did was a ban on council venues.
    Anti-fascists do not ban fascists they confront them and expose them as cowardly idiots to abort their movement.
    While Southern blames the Antifa as violent, she excuses herself firing flares at boats full of refugees.
    Her language and her actions are one and condemn her.
    Debating fascists does not stop them recruiting.
    Nor does begging the bosses state to stop them.
    Invariably the fascists and the state forces act together against antifascists.
    The US has just enacted a law that can jail Antifa for 15 years for wearing masks.
    Some years ago a number of us went into a meeting in Auckland with Irving the holocaust denier. We few were able to briefly disrupt his meeting.
    Irving hasn’t been back since and the National Front is a pathetic sight.
    The left that understands what a threat fascism is knows that the only language fascists understand is force.
    There is one hell of a difference between fascist violence and anti-fascist violence. Its not all one giant no-no called VIOLENCE that infects the right and left equally.
    Fascist violence is in the service of smashing the organized working class. That is why they come for the communists first.
    Workers violence is in the service of smashing an existential threat to the survival of humanity.

    • for the politically educated, those with a class analysis, and or some experience of what organised neo fascists are actually capable of, Dave is dead right

      but with our largely compliant, complacent population, and current low level of political organisation in this country, negating the “violence is violence” fascist/anti fascist narrative will be quite a task–one which must be attempted though! big numbers will help…

    • This is so progressive!First we have Tiger Mountain “Put some boots on and join a demo,” presumeably to smash filthy fascists. And then we have Dave of Trotsky/Leninist Party fame declaring”Workers violence in the service of smashing an existential threat” is great. Anti- fascist violence good, Fascist violence bad! The Brown Shirts of Hitler’s German National Socialists Workers Party would be impressed! Mao’s Red Guards would give you an award!And the storm troopers of the Soviet Red Terror would want to make you both Commissars! Well done!!!

      • The “refugee boat” was a people smuggling operation where the operators were paid several thousand Euro to illegally import Africans into Italy. The reckless behaviour of the people smugglers put people’s lives in danger, not the protesters

        The Italian government have since cracked down on these operations

        The flare was fired, according to Southern, to provide light for the film coverage

        • “The flare was fired, according to Southern, to provide light for the film coverage”

          So you say Andy. Nice bit of apologism there from you.

    • “The US has just enacted a law that can jail Antifa for 15 years for wearing masks”

      The law has been proposed, I’m not aware of it being passed. But If I recall correctly it actually makes that 15 year sentence the punishment for wearing a mask while committing specified crimes. Committing crimes in a mask is not the same thing as peaceful protest.

  8. C’mon people, some mature in depth analysis, thinking, use of terminology & debate please. I suppose we can’t expect much more from our insular, shallow, adolescent society. So let’s be honest & shine some light on all our shadowy ‘crypto’ selves that lurk behind the outrage.

  9. They aren’t fascists. They aren’t far right. They aren’t alt-right

    You could engage in conversation with them, as they have invited you to do.
    But you won’t because it would expose you for the idiots that you are

    So, leftists will resort to the tactics that they always resort to:


        • An “open Q and A session” is not the same thing as a debate. Generally, the audience is expected to ask questions; then those two neo-fascists would answer. Their answers would be difficult to challenge with speakers have equal speaking rights.

          So the whole notion of “free speech” is very one sided and becomes a farce.

          • I’ve had brutal scary in your face encounters with ‘real’ hardcore German & British neo-nazi’s, these people you’re slagging off are pussies in comparison. So why do you persist in muddying the waters with the infantile & emotive use of misunderstood & archaic political spectrum & grouping terminology. Your first comment on this matter was commendable but this one doesn’t help at all.

            • “ultra conservative” “right wing libertarians” “nationalists” “authoritarian anarchists”. – all of which are enemies of humanity

              • I think you left out ‘most of us’. There are a few saints around but in reality we’re our own worst enemy, so in the words of Leonard Cohen;
                The Maestro says it’s Mozart
                But it sounds like bubble gum
                When you’re waiting
                For the miracle, for the miracle to come

  10. While Goff rolls out the red carpet for colonists from the world’s largest organ harvesting expansionist dictatorship to buy up property and turn No Zealanders into tenants in their “their own” ‘country’; it’s the atomisation of pluralism, Bomber…

    • A good point. Phil seems ok with excepting hospitality from known organ harvesting governments who send the family the bill for the bullet for a crime such as free speech.

      Makes these two seem pretty tame when looking at real actions our government turns a blind eye to.

  11. The idea of confronting the fascists, (and the police that will be called to protect them) mightn’t be the best ideal. (I have seen enough life changing violence in my life to make me want to stay away from it)

    I think that the following method of humiliating the fascists might be a better template to use.

    Pastor Stuart Robinson, Australian author of the book Mosques and Miracles, has drawn about 200 people to a conference in Greenlane this weekend aimed at revealing what he says are the true dangers of Islam.

    Meanwhile, rebel British left-wing MP George Galloway is expected to attract about 450 people to a rival meeting in Freemans Bay tonight to condemn Mr Robinson’s “islamophobia”.
    But Mr Galloway, a Catholic who has backed the Palestinian cause for 32 years, said New Zealand’s 45,000-strong Muslim community was moderate and law-abiding and had never carried out any terrorist acts.

    “Have you seen any signs of New Zealand’s Muslims launching a jihad [holy war]?” he asked. “Of course you haven’t. These people [Mr Robinson’s followers] are trying to place fear and hatred in the hearts of ordinary New Zealand people against peaceful neighbours.”

    He said statements at a Mosques and Miracles conference in Wellington on Wednesday that good Muslims must kill Christians and Jews would be illegal under a British law passed last year to ban religious hate speech. New Zealand does not have such a law.

    “One of the reasons we have it in Britain is the prevalence of this kind of anti-Muslim hate propaganda which becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy,” he said. “If you generate hatred against Muslims, you will get a reaction from young Muslims seeking to defend their community.”

    Mr Galloway’s public meeting is at the Auckland Girls Grammar School Theatre, Howe St, at 7.30 tonight.

    The Mosques and Muslims conference is closed to the public but Mr Robinson will preach at the venue, the Greenlane Christian Centre, at 9am, 10.45am and 7pm tomorrow.

    The huge counter meeting humiliated the Islamophobic racist campaign of Pastor Stuart Robinson, and nothing more was heard from him and his followers in this country.

    Why don’t we use this model again and fill the Auckland Town Hall with progressive and anti-Islamaphobic and refugee speakers. We could bring in the Humanist speakers banned by the government by Skype.

      • Since Iranian and Middle East oil interests sold out there brands to colonialist powers during WW1, now administered by the White House there has not been a true Muslim King. Consensus amongst Muslim and Islamic people say that those at the top want to maintain the current cash flows to further maintain the political hegemony.

        Analysts claim Middle East disputes have become vitriolic because of the Israeli brand in The Middle East and its association with the Kissinger model of lies, deceit, militarism and corruptibility in public life.

        Trump is a rear display of public acrimony at the top of this tightly controlled society where the boundaries of free speech are vigorously policed. It also highlights the nature of power where oil used to fuel the U.S military industrial complex is then used to kill the golden goose.

  12. Why is the modern left whipping up fears about a non-existent far-right threat? Because it makes them feel purposeful, and explains away why they are on the wrong side of the populist revolt.

  13. Martyn 100%

    Yes the more we resist this pair the more we fuel the fires of discontant among us all.

    NZ is a typical country who fights to protect our ‘independance’.

    I for one do welcome anyone telling me what to think.

    I have always used the ‘rational’ that we all were all born without rules printed on our bodies so who gave others the power to tell me what to think and do when they were also born with no rules printed on them to have their right to order me around???

    This is the real meaning of liberty.

    “The economic shock waves of the next global financial collapse feed the far right narrative, if you think this debate is going away, you are wrong.”

  14. Just who, exactly, is going to turn up?

    How many will be curious to hear what the fuss is about? How many are already convinced? Facts are important here.

    When these people have gone – is there much in society here that supports the growth of these beliefs? Fix that first. Clean up the weeds.

    And all the haters/resisters: maaate! This is not an existential threat to your diet! For the fight’em! Stomp’em! brigade – from the outside you look just like the people of whom you’re complaining: closed minded, shouty, paternalistic. Right and left.

    If you don’t like what you’re seeing in the mirror then stop villainising so many segments of society (ostensibly to ‘right historic wrongs’). All this outrage and virtue signalling has done damn’ all to create employment and a fairer deal for all in this country. We’re more divided and anti than ever, in some quarters.

    Had you noticed that? Before you put your bovver boots on.

    Of course, if you want a totally unnecessary ruckus – please proceed. And pay for the inevitable damages out of your own pockets. Including compensating the innocent ‘collateral damage’.

    Play fair.

  15. For Southern and Molyneux’s arguments to be countered by standing and convincingly debate our values ,some written and incontrovertible facts have to be acknowledged about what they are talking about. This from someone who has not sought to learn what they are saying, I’m happy to assume it isn’t good.
    But what Andy says about some of the teachings in the islamic texts is there for people to look up. And it is evident that currently in the middle east some extremists are applying it literally with murderous effect.
    The same of course has been done by western christian powers in the past, taking extreme interpretations of the bible to justify and generate recruitment for the crusades, with no more moral rectitude.
    If these two are condemning Islam from the perspective of good devoted Christians , saying Islam bad Christianity good, well that should be pretty easy to counter. But if they are saying that most, esp Abrahamic religions can be invoked to persuade recruits to murder rape and destroy the lives of people of other religions , then I don’t think that can be countered.
    I suggest Quakerism if you have to be Christian , or Buddhist if your more flexible. Agnostic if you are truly honest and determined to avoid any religious doctrine that could be read as inciting violence.
    But if the objective is to minimise the exposure of some undesirable trouble-makers then treating them with ignore would have been my grandfather’s advice. As Keepcalmcarryon suggests.
    D J S

    • They are defending Westen liberal democracy over the forces that seek to destroy it, which includes enemies within mostly

      If you think that is easy to counter then good luck

      They are both very well informed and have lots of experience debating

    • They are not condemning Islam from the perspective of good devoted Christians. As far as I know, Molyneux is an atheist

      No one has said they will be condemning Islam, including them.

      It would help if someone actually bothered to find out a bit more.

      As it happens, I do have some concerns about Stefan Molyneux, and his attempts to get people to sever ties with their families (“De-Fooing”) and his wife’s professional misconduct allegation in this regard.

      I don’t recall anyone in the media raising this as an issue.

      To busy chanting “Fascist” I presume

      • +100…Thanks for your comments ANDY…I know virtually nothing about these people, except that they have a following by some people who are not stupid

        …I would like to know more

        … instead of having them shut up by people whose arguments are very dubious and verge on fascism imo

            • Red Buzzard;

              Many will be in the same boat, along with Goff. I suspect he will be ‘under orders.’

              I knew Southern had been banned from UK to interview Tommy Robinson a while back who
              was exsposing child grooming/sex rings in Luton. (He now is in jail. Sensitive subject)

              So I went to her website to find out more.

              She is a journalist, author and documentary maker.

              Her feature is a doco called ‘Farmlands’ – highlighting white genocide in South Africa.

              FARMLANDS (2018) Official Documentary

              Lauren Southern website.

              Stefan Molyneux has been called “Canada’s Chomsky”.
              He prides himself with Reason and Logic. Highly intelligent. Would out-debate most in NZ.
              Has one of the largest and most popular Philosophy sites on the Internet.
              Many might view him as a ‘smarmy smart arse.’ His humour is subtle. Entertaining.

              His contraversial interview on Race and IQ.
              “Stefan Molyneux on Race and IQ (Pt. 2) – The Rubin Report”

              Stefan Molyneux website.

              Makes you wonder what all the screaming hordes are all frightened about.
              Truth maybe?
              Hope to be some help.

              • +100 thanks for that information…I have not yet studied their views in detail

                … but I agree with you about the over- reaction by so -called anti fascists who would close down debate

                (war criminal Madeleine Albright is one who prides herself on being a leader of the anti fascists so does Soros ….much irony!…)

                …however I have the general gist of the arguments made by Molyneux from a younger member of the family with whom I debate regularly

                …of course Molyneux’ s views must be debated but it would be wrong ( fascist) to shut him down and brand him and his followers as fascist

                …if nothing else we owe it to the younger generation who lives on and by the internet to bring the discussion out into the open public arena and debate the issues in a civilised way

              • +100 IAIN MCLEAN…re “Makes you wonder what all the screaming hordes are all frightened about.Truth maybe?”

    • Very good post, David. I agree most especially with this:

      “If these two are condemning Islam from the perspective of good devoted Christians , saying Islam bad Christianity good, well that should be pretty easy to counter. But if they are saying that most, esp Abrahamic religions can be invoked to persuade recruits to murder rape and destroy the lives of people of other religions , then I don’t think that can be countered.”

  16. I have two words for these people ” fuck of” never mind all the bullshit people have been espousing on this site. Who will be paying the police security bill when they speak, hope its not us the tax payer.
    Also I didn’t hear anything from these freedom of speech people when bob the knob jones said he will sue the two Maori women calling him and his views racist. So much for freedom of speech what a load of bull when millionaires can sue your backside of when they aren’t happy about reactions from their long held entrenched racist views.

    • Actually it’s “off” not “of”

      As Mark Stein has pointed out, it is easier for conservative males to adapt to the new order. We just need to grow longer beards and get a few more wives. It is not so promising for women and minorities, but don’t say we didn’t warn you

      • gays and women and racial minorities are often victims of patriarchal religious fundamentalism and cultural clashes

        …in the secularised West women and gays and indigenous peoples have fought long and hard for their rights and freedoms

        …however one has to ask Mark Stein why masses of people are being dislocated from their homelands?…Western imperialism and warmongering has a lot to do with it, particularly in the Islamic Muslim Middle East!

        ( maybe the criticisms should be directed at the source of the problems of mass refugees and dislocation and economic desperation eg Democrat feminist Hillary Clinton and the destabilising of Libya and the killing of Gaddafi…ironically Gaddafi was a reformer)

        ….also all the monotheistic patriarchal religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have fundamentalist sexist , racist and homophobic strands( just look at the history of the Catholic Church) …as well as the reformist and more moderate humanist egalitarian strands…so not all Muslims are fundamentalist or sexist or homophobic…and in fact many are reformers and secularist

  17. Build a coalition willing to attend and debate, ideally large enough to comprise a significant proportion of the audience. Research their ideas, history and the format of their events. Prepare compelling arguments to dismiss their tenuous ideas. Interject in a civil manner. Film the event.

    Conclusion: engage and challenge them in a reasoned manner, not emotive, deny them an unchallenged opportunity to deliver a sermon to their ilk which would be attractive for possible future such events.

    Employ this tactic amongst other protest actions ensuring they are all reasoned and dignified.

  18. I’ve had scary in your face encounters with both German & British ‘real’ neo-nazi’s. These Canadians are just opportunistic pussies in comparison. So why muddy the waters with the infantile & emotive use of misunderstood political spectrum & labeling terminology. It doesn’t help at all.

  19. What the left should do now is stop parroting the virtue-signalling MSM’s disingenuous use of “far right” – an emotive term designed to smear and silence those who simply question identity politics, oppose open-borders, and support free speech – none of which are remotely radical positions.

  20. Always a call for debating, but it misses the point hugely. People who are attracted to alt-right (or however you wish to describe them) aren’t interested in ideas. It’s the chance to have some form of power in their lives that attracts them. Don’t believe me, check out the level of debate and comments on right wing sites, or even sites like whaleoil and the daily mail. There is a dearth of ideas being expressed, but plenty of unthinking, bigoted bile.

  21. “So Southern and Molyneux might be coming – what do we do now”

    Me, I’m doing nothing. I have familes in real need, living in garages to assist. I’ll leave countering these neo-fascists to the free speech warriors who welcome their presence as an opportunity to debate till the cows come home. For the lowpaid and homeless this doesnt rank on their radar, strangely enough.

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