Maori TV Leaders Debate – What new poll means, Hone Harawira + Gareth Morgan shine

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A robust and very funny Leaders debate one Maori TV between Kelvin Davis, Hone Harawira, Tu Ureroa Flavell, James Shaw and Gareth Morgan.

Hone was electrifying.

He had the crowd on his side, he reminded you of his passion. He hammered the rich and demanded for the poor.

He is determined to win back Te Tai Tokerau and was on the form of his life.

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Gareth Morgan has to be applauded as well, he made a genuine impact on the audience and made the most interesting commentary of the night in terms of genuine economic reform.

James Shaw was respectful and identified with the working poor which was unique.

Flavell is fighting for his political life and you could sense the panic in his performance.

Kelvin sounded like he was a man who was about to gain power and was being very cautious with what he was promising.

They were all strong on the racist prison and police system, and the demand for reform was loud and clear.

NZ First and National didn’t even bother turning up, and I think that is going to really hurt NZ First and the reason Winston is stalling in the Polls is because the 19 000 Maori voters who gave NZ First a Party vote on the Maori Roll are walking away in droves.

Based on that debate, Maori could be convinced that voting for Hone while gaining Kelvin off the list would be the smartest way forward. NZ First will lose even more Maori vote share and Jacinda effect could sweep Tamati Coffey to a win over Flavell.

The Poll by Maori TV showed a huge jump for Jacinda.

 

2014 Election Results

Hauraki-Waikato – 46%
Ikaroa-Rāwhiti – 47%
Tāmaki Makaurau – 40%
Te Tai Hauāuru – 42%
Te Tai Tokerau – 35%
Te Tai Tonga – 36%
Waiariki – 38%

So gaining 46% shows that the ‘Jacinda effect’ is just as real within Maoridom.

If this level of support occurs on election day, Maori will make up the largest faction within the Labour Party with a huge number of next generation incredibly talented Maori women leaders making up the next Government.

If there is a desire for change within the Maori electorate as strong as it is forming within the General electorate we need to start thinking about a Labour + Green Government because if this Maori support joins middle class support joins workers, women, beneficiaries and most importantly young voters, Labour will have a shot at a 40+ result now.

48 COMMENTS

  1. Really speaks volumes about what the Transnational Capital Party stands for and who they really represent.

  2. Martyn both the gnats and NZ Firsts absence shows they really don’t give a stuff about our people despite us being the most marginalized with the worst stats in all facets of life in NZ (except for our Pacific Island cousins) who share some similar ones.
    This factor alone is good reason for our people to stop voting for both the gnats and Winston. Any Maori or PI voting for these mongrel needs their head read in my view they are either stupid or very selfish.
    Now based on Gareth’s policies he deserves a seat but it will be his own people who will kick him in the guts not Maori.
    Lasts night debate showed our whanaunga kelvin needs to lift his game he looks like he needs some media training. I say this because those nasty gnats will clean him out with their polished spin they have mastered the art of spinning their proverbial billshit.
    Also it seems the gnats have really shown there true blue colours they are so arrogant they didn’t even bother to make an appearance and do they think all us Maori are stupid based on their actions and policies I believe so. So I am hoping they will pay at the ballot box for there arrogance and don’t give a shit attitude .

    • Absolutely right Michelle.

      I have no Maori in me at all but even I can see that voting National or NZ First achieves a big fat zilch for the tangata whenua (as would voting ACT). I can’t imagine what leads a Maori voter to vote that way.

      In my simple pakeha mind, the Maori people are very community centred. This has the potential to be a huge plus to their political power. Unified, the Maori people would be unstoppable. Imagine the Treaty being honoured! No ifs or buts or pakeha prevarication; it just is. That is completely possible.

      I have always believed that Hone Harawira is the most honest straight talking politician NZ has ever seen. Why on earth would you not want him in Parliament? Why on earth would you not work the two for one system?

      When you split yourselves you also weaken yourselves.

      • Absolutely agree there JS Bark.

        Re Hone Harawira … his honesty and straight up attitude scares the bejesus out of the grubby Natz! I remember when he was last in Parliament. Listening to him was always a pleasure.

      • Te Ururoa is a cheap salesman and he deserves the decimation of his party.

        As soon as Kahununu signed there settlement the fucken Black Sand mining project went through. Nah T-boi. He’s put a curse on maori that every one can see. Just nah is all I can come up with right now.

      • I used to have a general perception of Maori pulling in the same basic direction , but nowadays , – and particularly because of the divisive force of neo liberalism, – there is great diversity in political persuasion.

        From NZ First to Mana , Labour to National there is great diversification.

        But it is a curious yet obvious fact that whats often good for Maori people , – particularly young semi skilled men and women , – is often good for the rest who are not Maori yet fall into the same sociao economic groupings , … and here lies the point. This is why people like Hone Harawira are needed in parliament. There are issues unique to Maori , – but also more far ranging issues , basic quality of life issues that only someone with the blunt force delivery of truth like Harawira can articulate.

        We are a wounded , divided community after 33 years of abusive neo liberalism , and this country needs healing.

        And ,… for those interested, it is a fact that Mana policy is the closest at this present day to Rob Muldoons style govt of social democracy based on Keynesian economics. Even the Greens are not as close to our pre 1984 social democracy as Mana is now .

        And that very fact alone should be ringing alarm bells as to just how far this country has drifted towards far right wing politics.

        And that is just one among many reasons why Hone Harawira and Mana should be in parliament.

        • +100 WILD KATIPO…I voted Mana last Election and was pissed off when my vote was wasted thanks to the Labour Party standing Kelvin Davis…Labour showed its real colours in not enabling a real socialist party into Parliament

      • Michelle
        Peters stated reason for not turning up was his not wanting to share the stage with Morgan. This almost makes sense given the spat at Rātana, though he gave as good as he got there; ” “it’s been a long time since he’s [sic] been ravaged by a toothless sheep”. The not wanting to face up to tangata whenua over his scheme to disestablish the Māori seats seems a more likely cause.

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/323013/nz-first-leader-called-%27uncle-tom%27-at-ratana

        Davis did look a bit hesitant, I think Bradbury’s is accurate with; ” sounded like he was a man who was about to gain power and was being very cautious with what he was promising”. I can’t say I’m as sold on Morgan’s policy as you are. Mainly because although there are some good ideas, there are also a lot of gaps (at least in the 13 that are available on their website), which can later translate into voting for terrible policy. Also his performance last night was just terrible (the OP has its own reasons for flattering him I assume).

        J S Bark
        I’d agree that; “Harawira is the most honest straight talking politician NZ has”, if not; “ever seen”, though Bradbury might have been going a bit far to call his performance; “electrifying”. He seemed more conversational than speechifying for a lot of the debate – which gave his words more credibility than blustering would.

        “When you split yourselves you also weaken yourselves”, seems a bit strange of a way to describe diversity in Māori representation. Pākeha have different interests and expectations of their MPs, why should Māori be so different? You are not advocating a grand alliance of all non-Māori parties are you? A one-party state might be; temporarily strong, but also brittle, in a changing world.

        • With regards to TOP policy: it’s called a democracy reset for reason; The system is a total farce.

          So let’s pull out a figurative blank bit of paper and start from there.

          If not. Then is there a difference between a dumb system and a really well thought out dumb system.

          And get yourself some smarter friends.

  3. I understand N.Z. First stance on not attending given their policy’s and values around race based parties. However the Nats not turning up is a disgraceful act given their political background.

    One question.

    Where was ACT and Seymour?

    • No mention of Act Bert its as though that party doesn’t really exist. I thought NZ First’s excuse to blame Gareth for it’s party’s non attendance very lame and pathetic indeed. You are correct in your assessment of them doing a no show. One of the reason for National’s no show is that the party is relying on the Maori and Mana parties to bring home some votes.

  4. National had nothing but lip service to offer, so ” a no show”

    New Zealand First want to wipe the Maori seats, so “a no show.’

  5. National had nothing but lip service to offer, so ” a no show”

    New Zealand First want to wipe the Maori seats, so “a no show.’

  6. Natz and NZF’s no show at the debate, was a one finger salute to the Maori electorate, something which I hope backfires against both parties. An insult!

  7. Yes Hone Harawira and Gareth Morgan were desperate to get attention.
    Hone especially expressing views that he is unlikely to be in a position to implement or be accountable for.
    A member who is part of the major party in the next Government will have influence, especially if he is a good team player and there is evidence now that Kelvin Davis is a team player .

    • Dotti
      Because he is such a good; “team player”, Davis is almost guaranteed to get back into parliament as number 2 on the Labour list by virtue of his deputy leadership. Given that, there is a lot more chance of Te Tai Tokerau voters deciding to go for the two for one deal of spit voting with Harawira as electorate vote and Labour/ Māori/ Green/ whatever as party vote. It is no longer the either/ or choice that it was when Davis was not even on the list along with the other Labour Māori candidates all-in gamble.

      As for being in position to implement his policies, Harawira was clear that if his vote is needed he is ready to talk to either a Labour or National government. The policies are a better fit with the left however (and a bit of a work in progress, at least in terms of being typed up online):

      http://mana.org.nz/

      [Moderator; I’m having a bit of an exasperating experience with these comments. I replied to Michelle & JSB above when they were the last two on the thread, but it hasn’t appeared. Instead there are now another half dozen comments some of which say much the same as I was (in particular; Wild Katipo). I am really missing the ability to edit comments here!]

      • There is no two for one deal with Hone, hes been pulled up more than once for making up that claim. He should be talking with Labour but hasn’t, besides he has already done a deal with the Maori and National parties. Labours two for one is kelvin and Willow Jean as kelvin said.

        • Hey Louis, have you noticed a very noticeable softening by the Maori Party leadership toward Labour. They see the writing on the wall?
          Sad then that the vile attack by Marama Fox on Labour may go unnoticed this election. You know the comment ” I can never forget Labour over the Foreshore and Seabed issue”. This even after Labour realised the huge mistake and apologised.

          Sort of makes me think that Marama is in it, just for the baubles of office.

          • Yes I have noticed that Bert and I couldn’t agree with you more on what you have said. Last night in the debate Flavell attacked Labour too yet no one brings up the Maori party’s treachery with the Marine and Coastal bill that repealed the Seabed and Foreshore. What about the RMA punitive welfare reforms among other sell outs the Maori party have supported? They are in it for themselves Bert, there’s no doubts about that.

            • The Maori party and NZ First have both shown they will run with and support National.

              The words they speak mean little.

        • Louis
          Yeah it was a bad choice of phrasing; “two for one deal” implies that there was a deal made between Labour and MANA (I was going more with the salepitch cliche). That’s the sort of thing I could really have done with editing time to have picked up. The maths works out though, and I’m pretty sure the voters in Te Tai Tokerau are quite capable of doing it for themselves.

          [I can’t be bothered with commenting on this site anymore. Will continue to re3ad the excellent posts though. Good luck.]

          • … ” [I can’t be bothered with commenting on this site anymore. Will continue to re3ad the excellent posts though. Good luck.] ” …

            Keep on commenting , if you can.

            It takes time, I know, but it keeps it interesting , and keeps the ideas flowing. There are a lot of commentary’s that bring up interesting angles that others haven’t considered, or pieces of information they are privy to but others are not.

            I have learnt a lot from people submitting perspectives and material that I otherwise wouldn’t have been aware of, and at the age of 54, I have discovered there is still much to learn about politics in NZ.

            I liken politics to a living , breathing contemporary culture. And when that ceases,… so to does that culture. So do please keep on thinking , keep on contributing.

  8. Hone didnt answer the question on whether he would support National or not. A lot of obfuscation in his response but no actual answer to that question.

  9. For me the person who shined the most was James Shaw, he didn’t muck around with his responses he was clear concise and he stayed on message, he won that whole debate imo.

    • Too calculated, too measured. He’s a good politician, but the requirements for being a politician makes you seem too detached from reality. And he’s trying to talk to Maori, who are normally suffering the most from our current politics.

  10. I wasn’t happy with kelvin and thought he could have and should of done a hell of a lot better. He appeared unprepared and was kind of like all over the place and he obviously is in need of some urgent tutoring.

  11. I thought Flavell got off very lightly in view of his support of the National party. It didn’t escape my attention that on one of his spiels, he seems to think he’s won something in supporting the RMA for Christs sakes, he got no applause from the crowd, that I thought were generally very generous and supportive of everyone, including Flavell, in the debate.

  12. its vital that greens stay at 8 percent or above after the last urm pole jacinda only needs 2 percent to end winstone king maker status

  13. The Daily Blog’s love affair with Morgan is a bit disturbing g. He is a neoliberal and has no policies that will take the poor out of poverty. It will only benefit the middle class and the most wealthy. Their asset tax requires high house prices in order to generate enough revenue, they’ll sell off TVNZ and make RNZ compete for the funding boost they desperately need, they will Allie developers to offset their destruction of ecosystems by buying their way through it, they do not even want a minimum wage rise, they have no industrial policies and do not want to change the government. I would have thought this blog was left leaning and the editors would see through all of this.

      • Consistent profitability is volume multiplied by commission. So the amount of people that provide a service in exchange for other goods and services is what’s called a market.

        Maori Television for example are way to scared of leaving the bosom of TVNZ. With out huge subsidies Maori TV would fold almost immediately. Same goes for the Hosk.

        Under the TOP model, programmes that provide a public good indicating when your tax dollars are being miss spent, the public will have felt good to know that they weren’t funding commercial interests.

        But what I’v been arguing is if the public are given shares and they choose to sell before the price has a chance to rise then that’s there business. But the money should go into public good to illustrate when public health initiatives fail, health, education, state housing, defence and the rest, so that no one loses money.

        I see Little reason other than age and succession why Morgan couldn’t carve up TVNZ and the rest.

    • He’s denounced neoliberalism. He believes in classic capitalism with the government leveling out the playing field.

  14. So jacinda’s voting record below reflects Maori values? __ I DON’T THINK SO __ Look AGAIN __ EXPOSED ** jacinda ardern’s ** CHARMING attempt to DRIVE New Zealand DEEPER into helenGrad _ i.e. Eugenics, PC, Sexual Deviance, Anti Men _ With THANKS to; Bob McCoskrie and the Family First TEAM:
    Go http://www.valueyourvote.org.nz/2017-general-election/

    Jacinda Ardern
    Mt Albert
    Leader of the Labour Party

    Same-sex Marriage 2013
    Support

    Marriage Referendum 2013
    Oppose

    Marriage Conscience 2013
    Oppose

    Decriminalise Light smacking 2009
    Oppose

    Euthanasia 2017 (Projected Vote)
    Support

    Medicinal marijuana 2017 (Projected Vote)
    Support

    Easter Sunday Trading 2016
    Oppose

    Ban Street Prostitution 2015
    Oppose

    Raise Drink Age 2012
    Oppose

    Medicinal Marijuana 2009
    Support

  15. Question for you Martyn:

    Who do you think will get more seats?:

    Nat + Act or Lab + Greens?

    If the latter, surely it’s in Labour’s interests for Flavell to win Wairiki?

    In other words, if anyone is going to be able to form a government without needing NZF, is it not Lab/Green/MP?

    In fact same could be said for Hone in Te Tai Tokerau to form Lab/Green/MP/Mana?

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