Let me get this straight – the NZDF knew the only thing wrong with accusations of war crimes was that they were mistaken villages?

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Hold. The. Fuck. Up.

So the NZDF knew the only thing wrong with accusations of war crimes was that they were mistaken villages?

So that means the NZDF played up the mistaken identity of the villages to distract from the actually legitimate war crime allegations?

That entire press conference was a fucking sham. The NZDF knew they were misleading the public with that press conference!

It is now up to the media to rip the NZDF to pieces. They’ve lied to you as much as they have lied to the people of NZ, surely you can’t let them lie directly to your faces and you’ll just accept it?

19 COMMENTS

  1. Billv English has attempted to subvert the course of justice and frame two respected NZ citizens and should resign and Nicky and John should take a case of attempted Defamation against the stupid PM puppet.

  2. I heard Bill English day on RNZ that there is no evidence of civilian deaths, yet the NZDF has admitted there was???

  3. Yes Doug Billy “Bunter” English also said He said the author’s of “Hit & Run” got the wrong village /s identified in their book, and he was wrong so will he face any legal repercussions?

    He deliberately tried to defame the two authors for damaging their professional careers and also to damage their financial positions also.

    The Author’s must now seek “defamation” charges and other charges against the PM Billy English.

  4. unless there is an INDEPENDENT inquiry….not a closed shop inquiry…New Zealanders can not have confidence in their defence force

    …and it will put good upstanding young New Zealanders off choosing this as a career

    ….the reputation of all NZers in the defence force will suffer

  5. As I have stated elsewhere,
    re defence force PR tactic:
    this is the worst PR tactic since Alistair Thompson decided to attack Tana Umaga for the week leading up to the second Lions test in 2005.

    That did not end well for the lions.

    Who are my tax $ being spent on for this incompetence?

    • PM Bill English should apologise to Nicky Hagar & Jon Stephenson for saying they are wrong, as they were totally correct.

      They should take a Deformation case for damages against the errant PM.

      http://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/29-03-2017/tirgiran-locals-tirgiran-is-not-a-village-and-therefore-tirgiran-village-does-not-exist/

      “We believe in the integrity of the Defence Force, more than a book that picks the wrong villages.” That was the prime minister, Bill English, speaking this morning.

      PoliticsBrought to you by
      Tirgiran locals: ‘Tirgiran is not a village, and therefore “Tirgiran Village” does not exist’
      By Toby Manhire | Politics Editor
      March 29, 2017

      Residents of the Afghan area where NZ forces undertook Operation Burnham in 2010 say the NZ Defence Force claim it took place in Tirgiran Village is a nonsense, like describing an attack on ‘Otago City’.

      Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson have meanwhile conceded that they were out by 2km in locating the villages, but argue it ‘does not change the story in any significant way’.

      “We believe in the integrity of the Defence Force, more than a book that picks the wrong villages.” That was the prime minister, Bill English, speaking this morning.

      He was backing the position of the Defence Force Chief Tim Keating, who said this week that “the central premise of Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson’s book, Hit and Run, is incorrect”. It had wrongly stated the August 2010 operation took place in the villages of Naik and Khak Khuday Dad. He also rejected a range of other claims in the book, including civilian injuries and deaths, the motives for the operation and the nature of a second raid.

      The most startling “major inaccuracy“, however, was location: the NZ-led operation had successfully targeted Tirgiran Village, the NZDF Chief insisted. They had never operated in the villages mentioned in the book and video evidence proved this to be “irrefutable”.

      The authors have in turn rejected that account, with Jon Stephenson telling the Spinoff, he remained in “no doubt that New Zealand SAS troopers were in Tirgiran, at both Naik and Khak Khuday Dad”.

      Now, locals from the Tirgiran Valley have responded, via lawyers acting on their behalf, throwing fresh doubt on the NZDF claims, saying, “Tirgiran is not a village, and therefore ‘Tirgiran Village’ does not exist.”

      In a letter to English and Chris Finlayson, the Attorney General, lawyer Richard McLeod reiterates an earlier request for a formal inquiry.

      He writes: “The NZDF has stated that Operation Burnham took place in ‘Tirgiran Village’, which it claims is located 2+ kilometres south of the villages of Naik and Khak Khuday Dad … We have provided the NZDF map to our clients, together with the NZDF media release of 26 March 2017. Our clients are locals and residents of this area, and of course they know the names of the villages in which they live.”

      The locals’ assessment: “Tirgiran is not a village, and therefore ‘Tirgiran Village’ does not exist … Tirgiran is a valley area. Naik and Khak Khuday Dad villages are in fact located within the red retangular box in the NZDF map. The identified Objectives 1 and 2 are located in Naik village. The most northern village (incorrectly named Khak Khuday Dad in the NZDF map) is in fact a village named Khakandy. The north-western village (incorrectly named Naik Village in the NZDF map) is in fact a village named Beidak.”

      The letter adds: “Tirgiran is the name of the river valley and the greater area depicted on the NZDF map, and both the Naik and Khak Khuday Dad villages are located within Tirgiran Valley. To be completely clear, there is no separate settlement of any kind named ‘Tirgiran Village’, anywhere in the Tirgiran Valley … For the NZDF to claim that an operation occurred in ‘Tirgiran Village’ is akin (in New Zealand terms) to claiming that an operation took place in ‘Otago city’, ‘Waikato town’ or ‘Waitakere village’. It is plainly wrong to conflate an area into a village as the NZDF has done in this case.”

      They further write: “It is unclear to us whether the creation of this flawed document has been the result of misunderstanding, error or otherwise. However, it is plainly incorrect and unreliable. It must follow that so too are the conclusions which the NZDF seeks to draw from this map, namely that they have never operated in our clients’ villages. Indeed on our instructions, the latest NZDF statements are effectively an admission that they did so.

      “We reiterate that the villages of Naik and Khak Khuday Dad were raided by international forces on 22 August 2010, and that six civilians – non-combatants – were killed and 15 were seriously injured … The flawed NZDF map and its derived conclusions therefore reinforce our view that it is untenable for the NZDF to assert that Operation Burnham was a separate operation on the night of 22 August 2010 to the military operation that was carried out that same night in our clients’ villages – or indeed that no NZDF military operations occurred in relation to our clients’ villages.

      “For the sake of our clients and the New Zealand public, it is imperative that the truth of what happened during the military operation of 22 August 2010 in Tirgiran be established. Allegations of serious human rights violations have been made against the NZDF Operation Burnham. These must be addressed now and at the outset by way of a formal inquiry.”

      The book’s authors, Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson, have also just issued an itemised rebuttal of the NZDF position.

      Hager and Stephenson statement on the NZDF press conference
      The raid described in the book “is not an operation the NZSAS conducted”: INCORRECT

      The information presented in Keating’s press conference leaves no doubt that the book and the defence chief are talking about the same raid. Keating gave the name of the raid (Operation Burnham), the times and date (12.30-3.45am on 22 August 2010), the location in the Tirgiran Valley, and said the SAS arrived in two Chinook helicopters, used SAS snipers, found a quantity of ammunition in one building and had one SAS trooper injured by falling debris. All of these are details of the SAS raid publicised first in chapter 3 of the book. There were not two different raids with the same operation name at the same time in the same valley. It is obviously the same raid.

      An NZDF power point presentation shown in the press conference showed three main SAS objectives in the valley called A1, A2 and A3. The book had already identified the SAS’s main targets as being the house and guest house of an insurgent named Abdullah Kalta and the house of an insurgent named Naimatullah, neither of whom were present during the raid. The NZDF objectives A1 and A2 are the buildings belonging to Abdullah Kalta seen in a photo on p.60 of the book and NZDF objective A3 is the house of Nematullah shown on pp. 39 and 60 of the book.

      The SAS raid was in a different village with a different name: INCORRECT

      The defence force claimed that the SAS raid occurred in a village called Tirgiran, not the villages of Naik and Khak Khuday Dad named in the book. This is not true. The locals know the names of their own villages and they are called Naik and Khak Khuday Dad. The raid occurred there.

      The SAS raid was about two kilometres from the position we gave in the book: CORRECT, BUT DOES NOT CHANGE THE STORY IN ANY SIGNIFICANT WAY

      After the NZDF press conference, Nicky Hager said that the authors stood by the whole story and that at most the NZDF denials might mean that the events in the book occurred two kilometres from where we thought they were, ie. a slightly different location in the isolated mountain valley.

      We have checked the NZDF maps shown at the press conference and it appears the location of the raid and the villages is indeed slightly different to what our local sources told us. But the villages at that location are definitely called Naik and Khak Khuday Dad, and all the rest of the story in the book is unchanged. Likewise the photos in the book of the villages attacked in the raid are correct, as are the photos of the victims and destroyed houses.

      The Defence Force leapt on this and tried to sow doubt about the rest of the book. Keating said the “central premise” of the book was incorrect; that there were “major inaccuracies – the main one being the location”. But the location is a minor detail, difficult to establish in mountains with no roads or detailed maps (there are no known maps of the valley that include the locations and names of the villages along it). Contrary to what Keating said, the central premise of the book is that the actions of the SAS and its allies in the villages of Naik and Khak Khuday Dad led to civilian deaths and injuries, destruction of houses, neglect of wounded people and then a cover up – and none of that has changed.

      The NZDF has now replied to the allegations in the book: INCORRECT

      The defence force has not replied to most allegations in the book. Most strikingly, Keating’s presentation did not address the deaths and injuries suffered by children, mothers and elderly people who were obviously not insurgents – which are the most important allegations in the book.

      The allegations that the defence force has avoided or answered inadequately to date are:

      * SAS-controlled attack helicopters fired at civilians in Khak Khuday Dad village with many casualties, including the three-year-old child Fatima

      * SAS snipers appear to have shot at least one civilian, a recently graduated school teacher home on holiday

      * SAS-controlled attack helicopters pursued two farmers who opposed the Taliban along the valley and killed them

      * Twelve houses were destroyed despite there being no military necessity to do so

      * No assistance was given to the wounded at the time, including in houses that Defence now says it knew might have contained civilians

      * Nor did the SAS go back to render assistance later, despite knowing that civilians were likely to have been injured

      * The SAS returned for a second raid on the village Naik and blew up a house or houses

      * A bound and blindfolded prisoner was beaten by an SAS trooper while his colleagues looked on and did nothing

      * The prisoner was then handed over to the Afghan secret police who were known to have a notorious reputation for torturing prisoners

      * That prisoner was then tortured by the Afghan secret police and when the defence force learned about this it kept it secret

      * The SAS arranged the extra-judicial killing of some other insurgent suspects

      * The NZDF repeatedly denied and covered up what the SAS have done, and continue to do so to this day.

      An ISAF investigation has already occurred, there is no need for another inquiry: A WEAK SELF-SERVING ARGUMENT

      First it is important to explain about the investigation done in August 2010 by the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) coalition headquarters, which was cited repeatedly during the NZDF press conference. In 2010 the subject of civilian deaths was very sensitive in Afghanistan and so ISAF was attempting to investigate all suspected cases of civilians being killed by ISAF forces. But these “assessments” were very far from being full or independent.

      The ISAF investigation into the 22 August 2010 raid was completed in less than a week and did not involve anyone going to the area or talking to the affected villagers. It included a review of attack helicopter weapons system video and concluded that several “errant rounds”, caused by a gun sight malfunction, “may have resulted in civilian casualties”. However reports from SAS members and local people interviewed for the book describe multiple heavy attacks that wounded and killed civilians in different locations. Thus the hastily-conducted ISAF review appears far from being adequate. It is silent on most of the allegations in the book.

      There is no need for New Zealand to rely on the brief and inadequate ISAF review. Most of the information needed to confirm whether or not the allegations in the book are correct is located here in New Zealand, in the SAS files. The best option is an independent inquiry where this information can be gathered and assessed.

      Keating said the insurgents may have used civilians as human shields; aircraft video showed insurgents were killed; the conduct of the New Zealand ground forces was “exemplary”; and so on: UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS AND SELECTIVE INFORMATION

      Much of Keating’s presentation was unsubstantiated assertions. This does not help the public find the truth since the defence force has an obvious interest in avoiding bad news about itself. He also said that the book claimed the SAS “deliberately killed civilians”, which we did not say. If we are correct that bad things are being covered up, we cannot expect the people at the heart of the cover up to provide impartial information. Once again, this means that the only acceptable option is a full and independent inquiry.

      Lieutenant General Tim Keating told the press conference: “The ground force commander was an NZSAS Officer who controlled both the ground activities and provided clearance, after the appropriate criteria had been met, for any involvement of the aircraft. These elements were co-ordinated by an air controller in his location.” CORRECT AND IMPORTANT INFORMATION

      This statement contradicts earlier statements by the government (in 2014) where ministers suggested that if there had been any civilian deaths they were the responsibility of the US pilots, not the New Zealand SAS. It confirms what we said in the book: that the SAS commanders in charge of the raid have responsibility for deaths and injuries caused by the US attack helicopters, which they controlled and had requested to be part of the raid.

      Finally, Keating told the press that there were legal complications for having an inquiry: INCORRECT

      This is not correct. We are not proposing an inquiry by the defence force about itself. The government has the power to launch a full and independent inquiry at any time. We believe the NZDF is trying to avoid a full and independent inquiry precisely because some officers are scared of what it will show. But the issue will continue to fester, as it has for years, until that happens.

      • +100 well said CLEANGREEN

        ….there must be an independent public inquiry to restore faith that this is not a cover up of war crimes

        ….and restore faith in the NZDF

  6. How deep does this issue go? The more you study it the uglier it becomes. Why does Tim Keating look so guilty? He looks like he’s about to be marched before the War Crimes Tribunal. Either that or he’s about to fall on his own sword. there must be some very apprehensive people in the Military right now. Not to mention notable politicians who’s reputations are at stake.

    Why is no one one asking the hard questions? I mean our politicians. Is there some collusion going on at a certain level? Have the US got us by the short and curlies?

    NZ’s deployment of troops to the Middle East needs to be reviewed. 2001 would be a good place to start.

    Tim Keatings remark about it there being a blurred line between combatants and noncombatants should be a cause for concern. What are we doing sending our troops into such a confusing environment? Is this comment softening the public up for some more bad news? We won’t know until the film is released.

    At the same time, we are told that reinforcements are being flown to join our partners in Iraq.This is despite assurances from the Govt that there was not going to be any Mission Creep. And never beyond the wire. Provincial Reconstruction Team is very innocuous sounding. And what is meant by Force Protection?

    the time has come for our politicians and our Defence Force to be accountable to the people they are meant to serve!

  7. How deep does this issue go? The more you study it the uglier it becomes. Why does Tim Keating look so guilty? He looks like he’s about to be marched before the War Crimes Tribunal. Either that or he’s about to fall on his own sword. there must be some very apprehensive people in the Military right now. Not to mention notable politicians who’s reputations are at stake.

    Why is no one one asking the hard questions? I mean our politicians. Is there some collusion going on at a certain level? Have the US got us by the short and curlies?

    NZ’s deployment of troops to the Middle East needs to be reviewed. 2001 would be a good place to start.

    Tim Keatings remark about it there being a blurred line between combatants and noncombatants should be a cause for concern. What are we doing sending our troops into such a confusing environment? Is this comment softening the public up for some more bad news? We won’t know until the film is released.

    At the same time, we are told that reinforcements are being flown to join our partners in Iraq.This is despite assurances from the Govt that there was not going to be any Mission Creep. And never beyond the wire. Provincial Reconstruction Team is very innocuous sounding. And what is meant by Force Protection?

    the time has come for our politicians and our Defence Force to be accountable to the people they are meant to serve!

  8. Pat Buchanan had a few uncomplimentary things to say about the NZDF’s proclivities for lying, spin, deliberate confusion, and avoiding the truth.
    Everything so far indicates a real need for a commission of inquiry. As the Tories are fond of telling us, nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

  9. If National were in opposition they would be SCREAMING for an enquiry.

    A bit different when they are in office.

    • Yeah, that’s about right, mosa.

      Let’s hope labour will be more forthcoming if they win the next election.

      The stench of corruption from theNZDF is overpowering.

  10. Don’t let this one get away… It puts Key’s knighthood in jeopardy (strong enough reason for a cover up? Probably to him).

  11. The ultimate responsibility for the fiasco in Tirgiran lies with John Key!

    In a footnote at the end of Hager and Stephenson’s book ‘Hit and Run’:

    “In the case of the Tirgiran raid, it is likely Key could legitimately blame the SAS and Defence Force for not telling him everything. But he knew enough. When news stories appeared, one after another, with evidence that his decision had led to a disaster, the whole concept of accountability is that it was his duty to investigate and take action.”

    Further on: “He [Key] made the decision as prime minister to let the SAS go ahead with an attack in civilian villages. He appears not to have followed up properly when news of the tragedy emerged. He has shown a lack of interest and remorse.”

    Well, that’s what you can expect when you make a lying, one-dimensional, ego-centric money-trader the leader of a democracy.

  12. Well, well, well, the Prime Minister and his loyal government have gone further than I expected, they are even ruling out any inquiry now, I had expected they would set up a ‘white washing inquiry’ of sorts.

    There is NO talk about an investigation, as Bill simply trusts what his loyal soldiers “present” to him.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/328074/%27no-basis%27-for-afghan-raid-inquiry-pm

    “Mr English said the Defence Force had reviewed all the material related to the incident and found the personnel involved took all feasible precautions to minimise civilian casualties and the destruction of property.

    “I trust the facts as presented.”

    If the Defence Force had presented material that was in any way misleading, the government would view that very seriously, Mr English said.

    And he said there were also some significant errors made by the authors of the book.

    Mr English was asked why no-one outside of the Defence Force had been allowed to view the footage, and whether this process could be seen as independent.

    “Well, the CDF [Chief of the Defence Force] is independent, he wasn’t involved in the operation. He has access to video of the actual operation itself along with all the planning that went into it, the review afterwards by ISAF [the International Security Assistance Force], and we trust that process.” ”

    It is like leaving ALL Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) “investigations” over to police to “investigate”, and then claim that they are “independent”.

    Now when it comes to “presenting” stuff, what did Colin Powell once ‘present’ to the US President, the press and the public?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/feb/05/iraq.usa

    Years later:
    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/colin-powell-invasion-iraq-badly-flawed-n422566

    So let us see what Deborah Manning et al will come up with now, shall we?

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