Challenge the smears – it’s Zionism that’s anti-Semitic

By   /   August 6, 2016  /   53 Comments

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Israel’s supporters are directing spiteful and ridiculous accusations of ‘anti-Semitism’ towards Britain’s Labour Party Leader, Jeremy Corbyn

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Israel’s supporters are directing spiteful and ridiculous accusations of ‘anti-Semitism’ towards Britain’s Labour Party Leader, Jeremy Corbyn. Their intention is to create the impression that anyone who speaks out in defence of Palestinian human rights and against Israel’s violations of international law is anti-Jewish. But instead of saying this plainly, they choose instead to use the term ‘anti-Semitic’. As Arabic is a Semitic language, such self-defeating circumlocution will inevitably invite growing attention to the wider, essential reality – the racism of Israel’s founding ideology towards the people of the Middle East.

The Zionist plan for Palestine depended upon the intervention and continuing support of European imperialism. A statement, known as the Balfour Declaration, addressed to British banker and Zionist, Lionel Walter Rothschild, on 2 November 1917, dismissively referred to the Palestinian people as “existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine”. Zionism was imbued from the outset with an imperialist European attitude towards the Middle East. The Hebrew word for Germany is ‘Ashkenazi’ and the Ashkenazim come from Russia, Eastern Europe, France and Germany. Inside Israel, Ashkenazim discriminate against Jews of Middle Eastern, North African and Iberian descent.

Sephardi is the Hebrew word for Spain, the home for nearly 800 years of Al-Andalus, the Muslim empire in southern Spain.

“Spain was home to by far the largest and most brilliant Jewish community in Europe; elsewhere, the Jews were hounded and persecuted.”

So writes Lewis Hopfe in his book Religions of the World.

“Although non-Muslims paid more in taxes than the Muslims, it was by far less than any previous government had imposed upon them . . . it obviously wasn’t much of a burden, however, since non-Muslims freely opted and longed to live under Muslim rule.”

In 1492, the Christian re-conquest and end of Muslim rule in Spain saw most Jews exiled from Spain, and those that remained forced to become Christians. Today, the description ‘Sephardic Jews’ is often subdivided, to include North Africa and the Middle East, into Sephardic and Mizrahi (meaning ‘Eastern’).

On 18 July, the Israeli Opposition leader Isaac Herzog warned of what he called “growing hatred and racism” in Israel. The Hebrew-language news-site NRG reported Herzog as saying: “We hear hatred at every turn, whether it is directed towards women by military rabbis, by Ashkenazi Jews against Sephardi Jews and Mizrahi Jews against Ashkenazis . . .” Many non-European Jews are forced to hide their identity and culture. Rabbi Haim Amsalam says personal progress often depends on whether your family name is Mizrahi or not:

“I know many people who’ve reached high-ranking positions. They had no choice but to adopt Ashkenazi speech and physical appearance and gradually adopt Ashkenazi culture . . .”

He asks: “Why should I abandon my culture and heritage?”

Zionist anti-Arabism is clearly expressed in this quote from David Ben-Gurion, Israel’s first Prime Minister:

“We don’t want Israelis to be Arabs. It’s our duty to fight against the Eastern spirit that spoils individuals and societies; and to preserve the authenticity of Jewish values that evolved in the Diaspora.”

The Zionist claim that only in an exclusively Jewish state could Jews live free from persecution is manifestly disproven – but at a terrible cost to both Jews and non-Jews alike.

Democracy and non-Jews fare just as badly
The Israeli Army’s Chief of Staff, Gadi Eizenkot, has publicly proclaimed and supported the promotion of a Colonel Eyal Karim to the rank of Brigadier General and the position of chief rabbi. As military chief rabbi, Karim will be responsible for making decisions regarding religious matters in the armed forces. Before being promoted, he served as the second-highest-ranking religious official in the Israeli Army. In 2013, as head of the Military Rabbinate’s beit midrash, Eyal Karim published a booklet stating that “the concept that non-Jews have equal rights with Jews in Israel goes against the opinion of the Torah, and the state’s representatives have no authority to act against the Torah’s will.” This has not prevented support for his nomination to the top post from the State of Israel’s two chief rabbis and Defence Minister Avigdor Liberman.

A former Israeli prime minister, Golda Meir, expressed the Zionist viewpoint when she told MK Shulamit Aloni: “After the Holocaust, Jews are allowed to do anything”. And so, by cynically exploiting the Holocaust tragedy, Israel, in the name of all Jews, justifies its criminal violations of human rights.

Not in our names
In March this year, Rabbi Brant Rosen, Co-Chair of the Jewish Voice for Peace Rabbinical Council, observed that:

“growing numbers of Jews and others identify as anti-Zionists for legitimate ideological reasons. Many profess anti-Zionism because they do not believe Israel can be both a Jewish and democratic state. Some don’t believe that the identity of a nation should be dependent upon the demographic majority of one people over another. Others choose not to put this highly militarised ethnic nation-state at the centre of their Jewish identity. Far from being discriminatory, their beliefs are motivated by values of equality and human rights for all human beings. Blurring the distinction between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism muddles the definition of anti-Semitism to the point that it becomes meaningless.”

Jonathan Ofir, an Israeli musician, conductor and blogger, writing in February this year, noted that there was little hope for a just Israel without:

“the involvement of the international community – whose help we need so badly – not for more cash, weapons, or apologetic “understanding”, but rather for its intervention in what we are apparently unable, and mostly unwilling, to fix.”

For those who still didn’t appreciate the extent of Israel’s criminality he also referred his readers to a piece by Yair Auron in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, “I translated and put it out here and on my Facebook page.” Ofir’s article bears the title “Barbarism by an educated and cultured people.” He writes that Israel was guilty of “barbarism of a degree which indeed could be, and should be, and has been, compared to those whom we love to hate – the Nazis.”

The educated and cultured German people were also overcome and indoctrinated, in their case through the enormous propaganda power of Nazi leaders. It can happen in any society – and that is why we should be forever vigilant.

Accused of anti-Semitism in an article by Alex Ryvchin, Peter Slezak, Associate Professor of Philosophy in the School of Humanities and Languages at the University of New South Wales, wrote an article in response, entitled Denouncing Israeli violence is not anti-Semitism. The piece also dealt with the anti-Semitic slurs contained in a book by two Australian Jewish academics, Philip Mendes and Nick Dyrenfurth. Slezak noted in his article that the authors carefully omitted any reference to:

“Israel’s cantonisation and annexation of the West Bank, which represents 22% of historical Palestine. There is no mention of the immensity of the settlements or the wall on Palestinian land, all declared illegal by the International Court of Justice in 2004. There is no mention of the 40,000 houses demolished by Israeli forces or the million olive trees destroyed, to say nothing of the abuse of children in administrative detention or 8,000 unarmed civilians shot dead since the year 2000.”

Ryvchin denounced a speech by Slezak as anti-Semitic and full of the “hatred that underpins the anti-Israel movement”. What Slezac actually said was:

“ . . . we join hundreds of thousands of decent people in cities around the world to express our humanity. But each of these rallies have been described as hate-filled and anti-Semitic. I want to re-affirm what speakers have said in previous weeks, it is not anti-Jewish to be critical of Israel. It is for humanity. Most of my family were victims of anti-Semitism – exterminated in the Nazi Holocaust. My parents were both survivors. My 89 year old mother is a survivor of the Auschwitz concentration camp. So, I think I can recognise anti-Semitism when I see it and I don’t see any anti-Semitism here.”

Those who smear Israel’s critics refuse to condemn the racist settlers who spray-paint ‘Arabs to the gas chambers’ on the walls of Palestinian homes.

Supporters of the Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement (BDS), so virulently denounced by Zionism’s idealogues as ‘anti-Semitic’, include Israelis such as Uri Avnery, Gideon Levy, Jeff Halper, Ilan Pappe, Miko Peled and Amira Hass. Two children of Holocaust survivors, Sara Roy and Norman Finkelstein, also bear witness to a horrific and undeniable reality that is also attested to by Anna Baltzer and Israeli human rights organisations Btselem, Gisha, Breaking the Silence and the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions, as well as Amnesty International, the UN’s Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs and Al Haq.

A merciless travesty of justice
Arutz Sheva, a Zionist website that claims to cover what it calls ‘Arab Terror in Israel’ defends the imprisonment without trial of a Palestinian Resistance activist, Bilal Kayed, and justifies the practice known in Israel as ‘administrative detention’, by claiming that it allows Israel “to hold suspects while continuing to gather evidence”. Kayed served his full 14-and-a-half year sentence but he remains incarcerated even though evidence against him has still not been presented. In an article published in Haaretz on 30 July, journalist and author Gideon Levy reveals the merciless manner of Bilal Kayed’s imprisonment and he goes on to describe the present mental and physical cruelty that Shin Bet, Israel’s notorious ‘security’ agency, is using to abuse Kayed further. A Haaretz editorial recognises that the Israeli regime “has made the exclusion and isolation of this country’s Arab citizens the backbone of Israeli patriotism.”

One state
Every person born in the Holy Land, Palestine, now divided between Israel and Israeli-Occupied Palestine, has the right to live in peace and equality, free from fear and every kind of discrimination. The deliberate partition of the land along racial lines is at the heart of the injustices and violence that now plague the Middle East. The ‘single state’ solution, has been put forward by non-Zionists as the most rational way to encourage a shared sense of commitment for economic wellbeing and willing recognition of interdependence. The cultural flowering that such a coming together could nurture might produce something of a renaissance in the Middle East. It has happened before; people of different religions and backgrounds have for centuries shown that they can amicably thrive together. First, the world must repudiate Zionism as an utterly unacceptable anachronism. What stands in the way of this is the support for it by vested outside interests.

Heed the voices of peace
Israel’s victims are given little attention or understanding, just as Jewish voices for peace also go largely unreported, if not totally ignored. The ‘Security’ Council only ever speaks of Israel’s security; the absence of security for the defenceless Palestinian people is never given consideration. New Zealand’s voice at the Security Council, instead of forthrightly condemning the Zionist state’s hateful violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention, calls instead upon Palestinians to make compromises! New Zealand still has until the end of the year to do the right thing but its record so far has been abysmal. Earlier this year, a New Zealand Government Press Statement implied that the Golan Heights are in Israel. The statement read “Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee will today arrive in Stuttgart, Germany, following his first visit to NZ Defence Force (NZDF) troops at South Camp in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, and the Golan Heights in Israel.” Following my Press Release drawing attention to this, the statement was changed to read “Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee will today arrive in Stuttgart, Germany, following his first visit to NZ Defence Force (NZDF) troops at South Camp in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, Israel, and the Golan Heights.”

The New Zealand Government must be called to account. It is shocking that it could be, to put it charitably, so careless over such an issue. Although the international community views the Golan Heights as belligerently-Occupied territory, the New Zealand Government appeared to take sides with Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who stated at a Cabinet meeting in April that “after 50 years, the time has come for the international community to finally recognise that the Golan Heights will remain under Israel’s sovereignty permanently.” Syria is awaiting return of its territory, which continues to be monitored by UN peacekeeping forces. Supporters of the BDS movement and Palestinian Human Rights must insist that our Government do the right thing and demand justice and freedom for the Palestinian people. Until our leaders summon up the courage to witness for truth, they must be given no rest. That the Government Press Release was altered shows us that our leaders are conscious of criticism. What is needed now is a change of heart. There is an urgent need for New Zealand to recognise that the Security Council’s policies towards Israel and Palestine are blind and unjust. The Government must be told to shoulder its responsibilities because failure to restrain Israel in accordance with the UN Charter is a shameful betrayal of all humanity.

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About the author

Leslie Bravery

Leslie Bravery is a Londoner with vivid World War Two memories of the Nazi blitz on his home town. In 1947/1948 His father explained to him what was happening to the Palestinians thus: “Any ideology or political movement that creates refugees in the process of realising its ambitions must be inhuman and should be opposed and condemned as unacceptable.” What followed confirmed this assessment of the Zionist entity a hundredfold. Now a retired flamenco guitarist, with a lifelong interest in the tragedy of what happened to the Palestinian people, he tries to publicise their plight. Because the daily injustices they suffer barely get a mention in the mainstream news media, Leslie edits/compiles a daily newsletter, In Occupied Palestine, for the Palestine Human Rights Campaign. These days, to preserve his sanity, he enjoys taking part in a drama group whenever possible!

53 Comments

  1. Zionists are Nazi’s with a different uniform, yet the US props up this bunch of killers, with money and arms including the A Bomb. What Zionists fear most is truth, as do most dictators.
    So long as the US continues to feed into the Zionists plans their is little hope for change. NZ has over the last few decades had a clear policy of appeasing the US and over the past decade in particular has upped this cowardly behaviour…our present PM is the perfect example of craven immoral leadership. We should be ashamed of his behaviour.

  2. Afewknowthetruth says:

    Humanity needs to return to Sun worship, and do away with all the smiting that the Jews invented and are so fond of. Humanity also needs to stop ‘breeding like rabbits’.

    There is zero chance of that happening because money and power are so intimately interwoven with the phony religions that dominate so much of the world and the conflicts and overpopulation religions foment.

    One slightly consoling aspect of the rapid overheating of the planet that is underway is that the Middle East will become uninhabitable before many other regions of the world, and two or three decades from now one will want to live there.

    • George Hendry says:

      Greetings. 🙂

      So Jeremy Corbyn is being vilified by those guys. He must be made of the right stuff.

      just a quick note on that ‘overpopulation’ idea – all it takes to refute it is some simple arithmetic :

      According to Oxfam, the world’s richest 62 people have the same total wealth as the poorest 3.6 BILLION.

      Therefore either

      # the 3.6 billion are living rather frugally

      or

      # the 62 are living in obscene luxury.

      No, the 3.6 billion are not the problem.

      The 62 are. They need to share more.

      • Indeed, George…

        Corbyn… Sanders… Cunliffe. The treatment meted out to leaders supported by the rank-and-file seems to be common in the UK, USA, and here in New Zealand. It appears that the “democratic process” is fine – as long as the Established Hierarchy gets the Man (or woman) that they really want. And bugger what the members want.

        I’m reminded of the old slogan attached to the first Model T automobiles available to consumers’ “you can have any colour – as long as it’s black”.

      • roy says:

        Yes, it’s not overpopulation that is out of control, it’s consumption.
        http://www.monbiot.com/2009/09/29/the-population-myth/

      • Danyl Strype says:

        I agree with you about Corbyn George, but here’s some “simple arithmetic” for you. If every human couple has four children, the population doubles with every generation. If we say that a generation is about 30 years, then after a hundred years, the population has quadrupled. If this were to continue, how long would it take before every dry surface on the planet had humans squeezed into it?

        We can answer this question by reversing the process. 30 years before that point, 1/2 the surface would be covered in humans. 30 years before that, 1/4. 30 years before that, 1/8. 30 years before that, 1/6, and then 1/30, then 1/60, then 1/120. So, if the human population doubles every generation, it only takes about two centuries to go from humans using 1/120 of the land surface of Earth, to every inch.

        Fortunately, people with an environmental understanding of the implications of uncontrolled human reproduction have been working on various voluntary strategies for limiting human population growth (free birth control, family planning, women’s liberation from enforced reproduction, normalization of childlessness). These are starting to take effect and population geographers are now predicting a peak and reduction of human population with this century. Limiting the number of humans means more space and resources for the non-humans with whom we share this planet, as well as more space and resources per human. It’s a win-win.

        • George Hendry says:

          Cheers Danyl 🙂

          I think your scenario counts on equal sharing – at the point when every square inch was occupied the sharing (one standup body space each) would be the most equal it has ever been.

          However I think we can safely assume that the wealthy few, as they are doing now, would do what they could to prevent such an outcome. ‘Population control’ on a global scale has always resulted in greater, not less wealth inequality as the wealthier are quicker to scoop up the ‘extra’ resources. As Roy notes above, the central problem seems to be wasteful consumption.

        • dennis dorney says:

          Danyl, I dont doubt your arithmetic but it is unnecessary. The world population needs to be about half the present number if we are to have a stable, balanced environment. That will take us back to the 1970’s. If our consumption, as well as our population, was at the level of the 70’s we should be able to support that economy again.
          I was a young man then and my recollection is that, with hindsight, it was an idyllic time – more pleasant than now. The problem then is to reduce population quickly – just inching back “some time this century” wont do it. Biblically, man has had his day after “three score years and ten” yet we refuse euthanasia and persist in promoting an ever ageing population, even when a large chunk of it is senile.
          When the Titanic was sinking, men stood back to ‘save the women and children first’. We are on the Titanic now, and we are sinking. (I’m 76 incidentally).

        • Nick J says:

          Interesting numbers Danyl, the growth fortunately wont occur. The Club of Rome years back predicted the end of growth. They and many others linked together all the elements and surmised peak resources would stifle population growth. We currently literally eat oil…take diesel tractors, petrochemical fertiliser and pesticides out of the equation and we all starve. Add in global warming etc we have all the makings of population crash.

  3. John W says:

    Zionism has long been recognised as a separte entity to Jewery.

    The cry of victim is not a prerogative of any group when used as a propaganda tool without current condition.

    My Irish ancestors were ruled over by England for 700 years and the famine killing over 1 million natives while food was freely exported by the English was a tragedy for such a small nation.

    The Irish fled their homeland in an attempt to survive. Many didn’t and about another million left.

    Do you hear the Irish using the “Victim” experience to lever concessions or immunity to criticism.

    The post WWII push for a Zionist state was planned and colluded without any consideration given to the native people of the area.

    The hype and hubris of defenders of a Jewish state is appalling and should be soundly rejected.

    Most of the Palestinians are Semitic as are Iraqis and many other tribes of the area.

    “Anti Semitic” has been used as an emotive nonsense.

    We live in a world of today fraught with power and control of a few who depend on our support to continue. Just criticism should not be modified by fear.

    The perpetrators of that fear have a lot to hide.

  4. Andrew says:

    Leslie: It’s OK to “speak out in defence of Palestinian human rights” but when you do that you need to be even handed to avoid being just a troll.

    You need to include the terrible human cost of Hamas operated ‘terrorist schools’ in Gaza

    You should mention the hate-filled TV indoctrination in the West Bank

    You should make note of the civilian human shields used by Hamas to defend their rocket launching sites and ammo dumps

    You should bear in mind the terrible human cost for both Israelis and Palestinians in the Hamas orchestrated knife attacks in the West Bank.

    and lastly maybe you should mention the Russians bombing Palestinian camps in Syria.

    • Andrew, I think your error is to confuse the right of Palestinians to self-defence with that of terrorism.

      The Palestinians are responding to their captors just as the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto responded to theirs.

      Or are you suggesting that the Jews imprisoned in the Ghetto should not have fought back against their Nazi tormentors?

      • Andrew says:

        You willfully missed the point once again Frank

        My focus here is human rights abuses by Arabs against Arabs.

        It’s clear to see they’re their own worst enemy. A self destructive culture still living in the Dark Ages.

        • John W says:

          Andrew
          Arab history is worth reading about. Hardly a dark age heritage.

          Are you attempting to justify conflict. land confiscation without even compensation or what.

          • Andrew says:

            You’re right John.

            It’s a Medieval heritage. It’s development stalled somewhere in the 15th century.

            This is the culture that refused to allow the printing press into Islam because it was a heresy.

            This is the culture that smashed the only telescope in Istanbul because it was k’fur.

            I’m well read on the subject and can carry on in this vein if you wish. 😉

            • This is the culture that refused to allow the printing press into Islam because it was a heresy.

              This is the culture that smashed the only telescope in Istanbul because it was k’fur.

              Citation? ‘Cos you make an awful lot of claims and never substantiate them.

              As I have pointed out to you in the past, and which you studiously ignore, Arab astronomy was considerably considerably advanced while Europe was declining in the Middle Ages. But don’t take my word for it;

              After the age of the Ancient Greeks and the end of the Roman Empire, the science of astronomy went into decline in Western Europe. Barbarian incursions and empire building meant that little attention was paid to science and learning, and any such pursuits were limited to monasteries and the homes of nobles.

              The rise of Islam saw a shift of scientific knowledge from the philosophers of Greece, and the engineers of Rome, to the East. In 762 CE, the Abbasid Caliphate rose to prominence in the growing Islamic Empire and moved from the Arabian Peninsula to Baghdad, perfectly placed to govern such a vast area. Here, they allowed scholars from all over the world to meet and share ideas in the great Houses of Learning.

              […]

              Advances were made in many fields, and the Islamic scholars further refined the scientific method. Amongst the advances were the improvements in the field of astronomy, a very important part of life to Arabs. The scholars translated texts from Persia and India into Arabic, along with Ptolemy’s ’Almagest’ and works from Euclid and Archimedes. These works acted as the nucleus around which Islamic astronomy grew and, as with so much of the Islamic knowledge, it passed into Europe and fueled the Renaissance.

              […]

              As a result, astronomy took on a completely new importance and became one of the most important sciences to Muslims, encouraging the development of sophisticated mathematical and trigonometric techniques. In addition, the Islamic calendar is based upon the lunar cycle, and measuring and predicting the timing and position of the moon throughout the years is crucial to the Islamic world.

              ref: https://explorable.com/islamic-astronomy

              Here’s a bit of information for you, Andrew;

              Algol
              Altair
              Deneb
              Fomalhaut
              Rigel
              Vega

              – are common star names. They are Arabic. And are still in common use.

              Here is a list of some Arab astronomical designations; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arabic_star_names

              As stated in Wikipedia;

              A significant number of stars in the sky, such as Aldebaran, Altair and Deneb, and astronomical terms such as alidade, azimuth, and nadir, are still referred to by their Arabic names.[8][9] A large corpus of literature from Islamic astronomy remains today, numbering approximately 10,000 manuscripts scattered throughout the world, many of which have not been read or catalogued. Even so, a reasonably accurate picture of Islamic activity in the field of astronomy can be reconstructed.

              ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world

              So as usual, your chauvinistic claptrap is a fantasy based on your racist views, nothing more.

              I hope you continue to learn from our exchanges.

            • You can’t be as “well read” as you make out. Otherwise you’d know that the Arabs adopted the Hindu-Arabic numeric system before Europe in the High Middle Ages. (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system)

              Face it, Andrew, they got there first.

              • Andrew says:

                This isn’t exactly the best place to debate history, but in summary, yes the points you mentioned are all correct. The Caliphate picked up the knowledge gained by Greeks, added the beginnings of algebra from the Indians and was for a that time the repository of global knowledge. Whilst Christendom was a backwater of ignorance the Arabs had not only worked out that the world was round, but measured its diameter!
                But (and here’s the big but) this all happened between the 8th and 13th century. The so-called ‘Golden Age’. Then it stopped. From that point on the region stagnated and Europe overtook them. They had no Renaissance, Reformation nor Age of Enlightenment.
                So, just as I said, they somehow got stuck in the Medieval Era.

                • John W says:

                  Andrew
                  Do you consider that the Western world is not stuck on a suicide course.

                  History alone seldom justifies present actions.

                  Arabs or other groups are human and we are all related. There will be some people you agree and feel comfortable with and some you won’t. Some of that depends on you.

                  Many are quick to bathe in glory if one of the group is acknowledges in a positive way but disassociate with a person who earns disrespect.

                  All tribes, races or large collections of people have a variety of qualities.

                  When you condemn a race outright then there are many words to describe such a state of mind.

                  Fear and lack of understanding is often involved but not always recognised. Some just have limited empathy for others.

                  What you end up with usually depends on where you start.

                • Theodore says:

                  Andrew, I was going to go into a long sermon why your racist diatribe is so full of holes, but others have said it better than I have.

                  So I’ll simply say it briefly; you’re a racist.

                • Andrew, I asked you for a citation to your assertion;

                  This is the culture that refused to allow the printing press into Islam because it was a heresy.

                  This is the culture that smashed the only telescope in Istanbul because it was k’fur.

                • They had no Renaissance, Reformation nor Age of Enlightenment.

                  Nor did they have two world wars, concentration camps, mass-guillotinings, the Irish famine, Stalinism, Spanish Inquisition, Gulags, mass imperialism extending globally…

                  “Age of Enlightenment”? Not so “enlightened” after all.

                  You are living in a fantasy, Andrew.

        • Sally's Husband says:

          So Andrew, “human rights abuses by Arabs against Arabs”?

          Is that an excuse for Israel to abuse Palestinians? Is that your logic??

          Seems to me that Europeans have been no less guilty of slaughtering each other. Napoleonic Wars, two world wars, the break-up of former Yugoslavia, when it comes to bloodshed, Continental Europe leads the way.

          As for “living in the Dark Ages”, Arab astronomy and mathematics was light years ahead of us when Europe *was* living in the Dark Ages.

          Your chauvinism is clear. Your logic is not.

          • Andrew says:

            Nope, that’s not what I said.

            I’m saying that if Leslie’s intention to help Palestinians was genuine – she should firstly look at what their own people are doing to them, as I have listed above, rather than just demonize Israelis.

            The awkward fact for her is that Israel has only ever gone to war when they have first been attacked by their neighbours. Their stance is and always has been defensive.

            • That is precisely what you are saying, Andrew. You are justifying abuses against Palestinians by pointing to the past and how some Arabs treat other Arabs.

              This is racist claptrap.

              Using your “logic”, we should be pointing a finger at Germans for their actions in the 1930s and 1940s.

              Because while you’re on your moral highground, pointing a finger at people you don’t like because they dare to stand up against Israeli aggression – our own recent past in the 20th century resulted in the deaths of some 92 to 108 million (est.) people during two world wars.

              So don’t get too moralistic, Andrew. When it comes to slaughter on an industrial scale, the West is unbeatable.

              And we’re supposed “more advanced”?

            • The awkward fact for her is that Israel has only ever gone to war when they have first been attacked by their neighbours. Their stance is and always has been defensive.

              Again, untrue. Israel launched the beginning of what was later called the Six Day War, on 5 June 1967.

              ref: https://www.britannica.com/event/Six-Day-War

              • Andrew says:

                This was a pre-emptive defensive strike because Nasser had mobilised his army and was massing tanks on the border at that point.

                • Andrea says:

                  I wasn’t around then – but I thought Nasser was from Egypt?

                  Were the Zionists attempting to annex bits of Egypt, or what?

                • This was a pre-emptive defensive strike because Nasser had mobilised his army and was massing tanks on the border at that point.

                  The same could be said of why Egypt, Jordan, Syria, et al, took pre-emptive strikes against Israel.

                  It goes both ways, Andrew.

            • John W says:

              Andrew
              So forced occupation and annexation of land is defensive. You display something that belies a misunderstanding of humanity.

            • Priss says:

              “The awkward fact for her is that Israel has only ever gone to war when they have first been attacked by their neighbours. Their stance is and always has been defensive.” – Andrew

              Utter rubbish! Israel’s entire war-policy has been predicated on aggression, land seizures, building up their arms industry, and developing the nuclear bomb. On top of which they have blockaded Gaza and occupied the West Bank, building illegal settlements.

              You have a cheek, Andrew! No one believes your Zionist bullshit for one nanosecond!

        • Samwise says:

          “A self destructive culture living in the dark ages”?

          I suppose continuing super-power interference in Middle East affairs would have nothing to do with it, Andrew? Especially the US seeking to secure oil supplies ahead of competiting nations like China?

          Or securing trade routes like the Suez Canal?

          Or supporting military coups such as the one that installed the Shah of Iran ??

          Oh no, it’s dem darkies, eh, Andrew? Easier to blame the victims of super-power meddling rather than actually addressing the causes. Otherwise, god forbid, you’d actually have to fucking THINK through the issues instead of just being your usual crass, racist ignorant fool.

          • Andrew says:

            SAMWISE: A agree that American interference in the region certainly hasn’t helped matters. As Churchill said: “Americans always do the right thing, having tried all the alternatives…” 😉

            That said, the origins of Islamic intolerance and terrorism go much further back. A noted Muslim writer said in the 19th century:

            “It is permissible … to ask oneself why Arab civilization, after having thrown such a live light on the world, suddenly became extinguished; why this torch has not been relit since; and why the Arab world still remains buried in profound darkness.”

            As I mentioned above, the Abbasid Caliphate is called ‘The Golden Era’ of Islam and this was ended by a mixture of military defeats and the rise of the Ash’arism, which regarded the quest for knowledge as irrelevant when the Koran is the final word of Allah.

            So Islamic culture froze in the 13th century whilst the common man in Europe steadily fought both kings and clergy for personal liberty, education and freedom.

            Does this explain where we stand now? I can give you links to more detail if you wish.

            • John W says:

              Andrew

              You may be Muslim and follow edits of clerics. prophets and Muslim academics, but each to his own.

              Tolerance of difference and empathy for others is just not established by cherry picking bits of inflammation to build and argument.

              I notice you quote Churchill. Does that man hold your respect or do you just have a predilection for pro US comment.

              • Andrew says:

                John, judging by your response I think my post went whizz straight over your head. Read it again please.

                • John W says:

                  Andrew
                  Perhaps we are looking from different viewpoints.

                  I see a terrible situation and some justifying the promulgation of violence for material gain.

                  Peace is in Israel’s hands.

                  Is that not evident from where you view.

                  • Andrew says:

                    Agreed John. It is a terrible situation for all concerned.

                    I think the Palestinians have been horribly abused by the region’s various tyrants and thugs. They are the meat in the sandwich having been manipulated by Iran & Syria into being front line soldiers in an irregular war against Israel. I’m not excusing the Israelis but it certainly ‘takes two to tango’ and the Jews certainly didn’t want a 60 year war when they returned to their ancestral homeland.

                    • John W says:

                      Ancestral homeland?

                      That is a myth for most who have come to occupy the area.

                      For the few who may have been able to tace their family ties back to an area, do not earn a right to take occupancy. That would not apply in any part of the world.

                      You also neglect to address the lack of consultation and protection for the natives living there when the immigrants arrived in overwhelming numbers and were resisted.

                      That resistance was overcome by force and the conflict started.

                      Your perspective is hard to understand if you have read the history.

                      But you are not alone it appears but military power of the USA backing the Zionist annexation by force, does not make for justice in the majority of the Worlds eyes.

                      Occupation can be rightfully resisted by native people.

            • Priss says:

              “So Islamic culture froze in the 13th century whilst the common man in Europe steadily fought both kings and clergy for personal liberty, education and freedom.” – Andrew

              Whereas Spain was busy invading South America and destroyed entire civilisations in their maniacal greed for gold?

              I think you have a blinkered view on Islamic culture, Andrew, and not helped by your patently racist attitudes.

  5. John W says:

    Population and breeding programs are anti all – except those who have some idea of where we are heading.

    China still has the one child policy rigorously enforced in spite of a reported minor adjustment for a few special cases.

    China’s population will peak and decline. We all need to follow suit in one form or another.

    India does not have a collective mandate being deeply divided and yet to throw off the shackles of colonial rule and elite classes. So India’s population continues to grow uncontrolled towards crisis. Instituting a a state run old aged pension would be a start.

    Global population will decline anyway as the continuing damage being wrought by present numbers will cause a sharp involuntary decline with food shortage being one of the factors.

    War propagated by the greedy wealthy may get us first.

  6. Jono says:

    We dont want to make amends and give just compensation to Maori, what moral standing do we have to denounce the colonisation of Palestine?

  7. Afewknowthetruth says:

    The sustainable human population for this planet is the population that can be sustained without the use of fossil fuels, without the use of unsustainable energy systems to pump water (and to process sewage), without the conversion of forests and jungles into industrial farms, without stripping the oceans of life and without acidifying and polluting the oceans to the point of ecological collapse -all of which ‘we’ are doing at the moment. A sustainable human population is WAY BELOW the current population and is arguably a lot less than 1 billion: many say as few as 500 million.

    The fact that humans have managed to ‘breed like rabbits’ and explode the population from well below 1 billion to nearly 8 billion by using coal and oil to produce and distribute food is completely lost on the bulk of the populace and the majority of commenters on TDB. Few seem to understand that current arrangements are a very short-term aberration in the grand scheme of things, an that collapse is on the horizon.

    It will be when global oil extraction goes into severe, terminal decline that the reality of our predicament will finally hit home hit. That point is now extremely close, and those still alive a decade from now should not be at all surprised to witness a continuous decline in population.

    Additionally, the consequences of overheating due to the burning of fossil fuels have not really hit home yet. Although climate chaos is increasing as temperatures steadily rise, few people seem to be aware just how dire the predicament now is. Atmospheric CO2 is about 100 ppm above the level which causes irreversible [in time frames that matter] changes to the energy balance of the Earth, and atmospheric CO2 is being pushed up at an ever-faster rate by human activity (yesterday’s atmospheric CO2 was about 5 ppm more than a year ago; a century ago it hardly changed from year to year).

    https://www.co2.earth/co2-acceleration

    Much of the abuse of the planet and its life forms we witness on a daily basis comes from doctrines based on dominion over and domination of the Earth, which are promoted religious maniacs who take ancient musings and myths to be ‘the word of God’.

    • George Hendry says:

      ‘…many say as few as 500 million.’

      Citation, please 🙂

    • John W says:

      And you may well add that a level of human occupation that can be fed without using non Renewable Natural Resources. The planet is finite.

    • Andrea says:

      Hehehe

      Apart from a ‘few’ – most women don’t want to breed like rabbits. We know the costs, and they’re mightier than any number of dollars you might care to fling.

      When are the blokes going to stop their ‘no contraception, no abortion, make the whores suffer’ drivel? You know – manage your biology? Other primates do. And your domineering, competitive, exploitative stupidity.

      You don’t have to be feminised. Of course you don’t. But can you stop behaving like mindless celluloid stereotypes? Strutting, rutting, macho and seriously lacking in the ability to deal with keeping the challenges and intensity without wrecking people, the planet, the future of all?

      And those patriarchal religions. Those aggressive, over-breeding, evangelising power trips. The ones that infantilise women, advocate cruelty for differently-sexed people, and make mega-bucks from the whole misery. Up for revision yet?

      If that’s not ‘you’ – yeah. So? In the vernacular, “What are ya?!” And where’s your voice as a mentor among males?

  8. Kropotkin says:

    The latest smear in the UK press is that Corbyn has received a large donation from Hamas.

    • Wensleydale says:

      I also hear he has shares in a company that manufactures balaclavas, rocket propelled grenades and explosive vests.

      Honestly, is there anything they won’t say in a sad attempt to discredit Corbyn?

  9. Andrea says:

    Thank you Lebanon!

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/36998989

    The old ‘mot du jour’ – “””RACIST””” Add lots of shrieks to that, too.

    ‘Hey buddy! We know we’re at war with you but, c’mon, bunch up on your bus so we can ride with you. And if you don’t you’re RACIST’

    They’re something else, those Israelis.