No David Seymour – opening pubs for the RWC still isn’t a ‘win’

By
Martyn Bradbury
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70
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David Seymour will begin celebrating his law change to allow pubs to stay open for the RWC as some sort of ‘win’ for common sense because there weren’t vast drunken riots.

He’s wrong.

The issue about ramming law changes through under urgency to allow pubs to remain open for the entire RWC wasn’t about drunken riots in the street, it was about due process and using Parliament time to ram through law changes for the booze industry. They had 3 years to submit plans to councils if they wanted to open for the RWC – but the booze industry didn’t want that, they wanted to have a law change to just get what they wanted.

NZ is a nation of alcoholics but that we behaved well for the RWC isn’t the issue – the issue is having our Parliament co-opted to help booze barons by political parties that have also helped out the gambling industry, corporations and Finance companies. It’s the special interests of those who privatise their profits while leaving the costs to the public that make progressives angry and allowing the booze industry to dictate law as Seymour championed is no win for common sense, it’s the very opposite.

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70 COMMENTS

  1. No, it is about enabling New Zealanders to attend RWC events easier. They may or may not involve alcohol. In fact, by many accounts, there was more coffee’s sold than beers.I presume you would then argue that means it was all a ploy by the ‘dreaded’ Coffee Barons.

  2. David Seymour talks as if there is some purity in the logic and so much sense in what he is saying that it’s almost foolish in him having to say whatever it is because it is so obviously common sense.

    The stuff written here is not just the elephant in the room, it’s the elephant on the table 50cm right in front of him. He can’t see it and he will deny it exists. That’s the way he operates, that’s the way he is.

  3. Who keeps giving this zero percenter air?
    Why do we keep hearing from or about him?
    He is a nobody who was manipulated into parliament, his view is worth exactly what his percentage of support in the polls is.

    • Act currently is receiving about the same level of support as the Mana Party. Does that mean the ideas expressed by John Minto and Hone Harawira can be equally be dismissed so easily?

      • Difference is, Gosman, that ACT is on life-support and requires National Party propping-up to survive in Parliament.

        By contrast, it took Labour, NZ First, and National combined to take down Hone Harawira.

        How does it feel to be beholding to another political party for your continuing parliamentary presence?

        • Ummm… I believe I have seen you advocating for Labour, The Greens, NZ First and Mana to band together to try and get people elected in certain electorates. How come it is okay for you but not for others?

          • Any links to that, Gosman, or are we supposed to take your word on it.

            You’re hardly the paragon of truth here, are you?

              • Whoa, there, sunshine!!

                Firstly, Gosman, it’s you guys who’ve set the rules to play the MMP game; stitching up deals in Epsom and Ohariu.

                The Left are every bit as entitled to borrow from your rule-book. I’m advocating what your party (ACT) and National have been doing for the last seven years; vote strategically.

                Secondly, what I advocate is irrelevent. In case you’re too blinded by your own worldview, I have bugger-all influence with the political parties.

                Labour, Greens, and NZ First did not do any deals in 2014. (Though one was made in the Northland by-election to allow Peters to win.)

                Thirdly, Mana wasn’t on life-support beholding to any other party. Harawira won Te Tai Tokerau on his own, in 2011, competing against Labour and the Maori Party.

                Lastly, not only was no deal done – but Harawira’s parliamentary career was demolished when Labour, National, and NZ First did their deal to collectively oppose him.

                Can you honestly say that your man, Seymour, won Epsom fairly, without support from National? Of course not – don’t even try.

                So don’t point the finger at the Left. You guys have set the rules, to your own benefit. Then you try getting high’n’mighty when you think the Left might follow suit?

                Really?!

                ACT is on life-support and reliant on National.

                Mana is not reliant on anyone else.

                No wonder National dumped the Electoral Commission’s plans to reduce the Party threshold from 5% to 4%, as well as the “coat tailing” provision.

                • Rodney Hide first won Epsom fair and square without any deal with National. What happened subsequent is exactly what you have advocated in Hone Harawira’s case. But regardless of this it is good to see you acknowledge your double standards on this subject. By the way why is Mana polling so low do you think?

                  • It is hilarious that you attempt to justify National/ACT’s gerrymandering with an event that never happened.

                    Pitiful, Gosman.

                    No wonder so many hold your “party” in utter contempt.

                  • Frank’s urging of Labour to get the benefit of an extra seat is similar to the Nat/ACT/UF except that there is an important difference.
                    Whilst I personally don’t like the coat-tails provision (one of many crap features of MMP) the setting in TTT and that of IMP was quite different to what happened in Epsom/Ohariu as in TTT the idea was to get to the threshold (1 electorate seat) and leverage off that.
                    In Ohariu/Epsom the idea was just to get a “free” electorate seat while minimally impacting transNational’s party vote.
                    The statistics bear this out quite clearly. The ratio of electorate vote to party vote in each electorate shows this.
                    In TTT, Mana ratio was 2.1.
                    In Epsom, ratio was 15.6.
                    In Ohariu, ratio was 49.7.
                    In short, in Epsom & Ohariu the voters didn’t give a toss about the party just voted to get an extra seat in the house.

                • ACT is a transNational adjunct party. It’s only purpose is to finagle an extra seat bypassing the party vote limit if the seat was held by transNational.

                  It has nothing to do with the coat-tails provision. Dropping that would make no difference to this ACT & UF gerrymander.

              • Actually he said no such thing, Gosman. What he was suggesting is a world away from the rotting deal Act and National did in Epsom.

                The Difference is that National threw Act a lifeline. Labour killed off Mana.

                So your so-called “double standards” is crap.

                And even if it weren’t, are you seriously telling us that it’s ok for Act and National to do dirty deals, but not Labour?

                The word you should be looking for isn’t double-standards. It’s hypocrisy.

          • As long as it is part of the rules, then distasteful as it might be, you have to play by them. They can be changed once you have power, if you have the courage of your convictions.

        • So basically you’re saying Mana is just as beholden to a big party as well. The only difference is ACTs sugar daddy threw it a bone while Labour chose to kill it off.

      • Mana are NOT in parliament, exactly the same way David Seymour should not be. Peter Dunne probably has a bit more claim even though his party’s %s are similar, he does have a long standing track record with his constituents in Ohariu. But Seymour? He belongs in the exact same place as Harawira and Minto – that is, NOT in parliament!

  4. Pushing ethanol into the unsuspecting would be a crime if it were not for the Big Breweries lobbying weak minded little minions like seymour butts .

    Should we talk about douglas myers about now ? How about ron brierly ? They made off with your money and now blame you for failing in your struggles .

    A classic swindle was when brierly bought the iconic Edmonds Baking Powder factory in ChCh, sacked the staff, stripped out the building then demolished it then put a gas station up in its place. brierly also lobbied to have ethanol packaged with hops and grapes and delivered to your anxieties via his supermarket chain ( You know the anxieties, the ones successive corrupt governments give you after they stole, then sold your resources to foreign owners who now keep ratcheting up their value so as you can barely afford them. Theresa gutting ( Telecom now Spark . little bit of sick. ) knows more about that than me.
    Fuck david seymour and fuck roger douglas, The Grand Muppet Master.

  6. The Act party is National ………… and National uses its Act branch/division to push it’s more extreme positions through, eg charter schools etc ).

    Police staffing levels and rosters are to a large part drawn up and based around the consumption of Alcohol …….

    “• BERL estimated the social costs of the harmful use of alcohol in 2005-2006 (expressed in 2008 dollar terms) to be $5.3 billion, of which 76 per cent ($3.7 billion) were tangible costs.” ……….

    As an example of Seymor and his butt licking lackey Gosman showing their hypocrisy……..this gloating over being able to sell more piss at all hours…….but not a squeak about the profits of the booze industry being subsidized through the tax payer, including non alcohol users ……

    The tax on the drug booze should cover the costs caused by its consumption……. that means paying for all the extra police, hospital workers, prison wardens etc etc that alcohol abuse brings about …..

    John Key has said this never happen under his watch …………

  7. I saw 2 of the matches in pubs and the crowd behaviour was exemplary, its sickens me that in order to score political points against ACT, Martyn describes kiwis as a nation of alcoholics – complete rubbish as alcohol abuse rates are falling as is tobacco consumption.

    Second when did the political left take it upon itself to infantalize and control its citizens – I vote left, adore rugby and enjoy beer (I brew commercial quality ales in my garage) and resent some self important and self righteous beardie suggesting I’m some kind of infantile lout because of it.

    Get off your high horse Bradbury and mix with the ordinary beer drinking, rugby adoring folk you claim to represent – you’ll be a better human being for it.

    • We are a nation of alcoholics, the stats clearly show that, pretending otherwise is just pretending.

      This isn’t about infatalizing NZers, this is about allowing corporate booze barons the ability to take over Parliamentary time to rush through a law change despite a clear pathway allowing for those who wished to open for RWC.

    • Your little speech ignore the problem that alcohol has become in our society, Tauputa.

      According to a BERL research paper some years ago, it was costing New Zealand $4-plus billion per year in cleaning up the mess and social problems caused by cheap, easily available booze.

      Part of the problem iust that some folk seem to juxtapose their own “responsible attitude” toward alcohol with addressing the problem. It’s as if close-identification with booze is clouding peoples’ judgement to recognise the real damage caused by liquor.

  8. The booze company s have been very successful in pushing and normalizing their drug into almost every facet of New Zealand life.

    The damage and destruction it’s abuse causes is HUGE with so many victims being woman and children …….. it plays a large part in our number 1 world ranking for domestic violence in the developed world.

    The Nats have twice pushed through pro-alcohol laws at each of the last two world cups ……

    In between times ‘Tough on crime’ pretenders like Key and Collins scuttled the Alcohol law review recommendations …….. Which would have lowered alcohol abuse and the serious crimes often involving violence and sexual abuse that flow from that.

    ……. Does anyone believe that the Roast-buster booze rapists would still be running around if Helen Clark was Prime-minister ?????

    John Key said they were ‘silly boys’ or something to that effect …… and that’s all they got as punishment under this pro-booze National/act government.

    Slightly off topic …….. but Imagine if the police had put the effort into the Roast-busters that they have against Nicky Hager ……….

    That’s the influence of National for you ………………..

  9. Agreed Martyn, corporates controlling Govenments – sound familiar – TPPA and all that…laws to make more money.
    Tauputa has a point though – most kiwis probably had a few and watched the game with friends – with a minority causing issues – could be due to the time of the games though…will never know.

  10. There is a clear political agenda in Seymour’s mind: To have booze gushing out of taps 24 hours a day, every day. It appears that the booze hours amendment didn’t create any significant extra problems for the police at this stage, although there have been no stats issued on this and even if there were we all know by now that you can’t trust National government stats.
    When the next big sporting event comes up then we will have a similar bill on the excuse that the last one worked so well then we should have another. And then the excuse will be that the second one worked so well we should just make it permanent to save time and money.
    Another win for the booze barons’ wish to have NZ society in a desperate need for alcohol while they laugh all the way to the bank.
    David Seymour probably gets free unlimited booze as an appreciation for all his efforts on behalf of the industry.
    That is what it is all about: Seymour working for the booze barons to have NZ awash in a pool of booze, vomit and violence while they take the profits and others clean up the mess.

    • It’s funny, I’ve just spent 6 weeks travelling around Europe inbetween World Cup games where you can buy full strength beer with your Big Mac and walk down main streets drinking openly out of wine bottles in broad daylight, yet the little doomsday scenario you describe hasn’t happened?

      • I think you misunderstand the point: It is not about people being able to have a drink when they want, it is about the booze industry peddling a booze culture where people believe that excess alcohol consumption and binge drinking is somehow a normal part of life and growing up.
        It shouldn’t be but David Seymour is too selfish to realize that his preoccupation with money making is hurting New Zealand society.

        • No, what YO are missing is that the extended opening hours for the RWC was NEVER about allowing people to booze to excess. It was to allow them to the chance to behave like responsible adults and get together in pubs to watch RWC games. This may have involved some alcohol but on the whole was about the event and not the drinking. The results showed that the vast majority of people took this opportunity in the way it was intended.

          • “Responsible adults”?? Gosman, have you been paying attention at all?? We have a multi-billion alcohol abuse problem in this country and you’re trivialising it and sweeping it under the carpet??

            Who pays for the alcohol abuse? The extra p[olice? Health staff at AE Wards at our hospitals? Drunk drivers? Court cases where alcohol was a factor in violence and sexual assaults?

            “Responsible adults” my ass. This is about you supporting profit making businesses while the costs are socialized.

    • If the booze barons and their puppet Seymour had to spend Saturday nights and Sunday mornings cleaning up the vomit and excrement after the latest booze binges, plus reviving comatose teenagers – perhaps their enthusiasm for more drinking might drop a bit.

  11. Opening the bars late was a total waste of time. Maybe Seymour thought the same atmosphere would return from the last RWC. But that was never going to happen because of the time difference, and we were hosts of the last “party”. The next RWC in Japan will be interesting because the time difference will suit proper opening hours for bars etc. Hopefully we’re more mature in dealing with it. I doubt it though.

  12. Marytn should ban Gosman for being a dishonest Troll who argues in bad faith ………….. eg “Are you advocating that alcohol should be banned? Please push for this then.”

    No one in this thread has called for alcohol to be “banned” ….. and Gosman knows this ……. but typically for him he still used a bad faith straw-man to try and score some pathetic point.

    Gosman reminds me of the dirty politics that the Nats played when scuttling the Alcohol law review recommendations ……. leaving us with things like the shameful number 1 ranking for domestic violence, child abuse and other serious crimes …….

    Gosman and others like hime can’t help telling lies ……………. its in their nature.

    Here’s some similar behavior from another shit sack ……………The Minister responsible for the government’s alcohol policy, Peter Dunne today dismissed Professor Doug Sellman, an addiction specialist, and 450 senior doctors and nurses as a group of people who don’t like a drink of wine at a wedding.

    “These people are campaigning to stop the harm and violence that erupts as a result of alcohol abuse, particularly the harm done to young New Zealanders,” Jim Anderton said.

    “They are not campaigning to stop people enjoying a glass of wine at a wedding, and to suggest that shows how ill-equipped Peter Dunne is to be a minister anywhere near alcohol regulation.

    “Although Peter Dunne claims to know what people like Professor Sellman thinks, Mr Dunne could not name the 5+ Solutions that Mr Sellman and Alcohol Action are proposing.

    • Here’s a thought, if you don’t want goose to Participate, don’t participate in comments involving goose.

      Because it’s all to easy to just create another profile.

  13. I’m just calling him for what he is ……… a bad faith troll who lowers the tone of the place.

    Also the TDB admins can see posters ISP address’s…… which means a troll changing their handle/name would be apparent.

    AndrewO is another troll who has just pulled a de-rail on John Minto’s post on Paratas plan to punish schools with poor pupils ………..

    These trolls are here in total bad faith with the purpose to stink the place up …….

    They should hang out with the angry rednecks at Whale oil but they don’t stand out as special there ……. so they come here to shit stir and get attention.

    If I wanted to bathe in shit I’d go to whale oil …… I get offended when they spread it around the internet and bring it to places that I visit.

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