That awful moment when you realise the Moment of Truth was right – Part 2



Throughout the allegations that John Key and the National Party had passed laws that allowed loopholes for the GCSB and NSA to conduct mass surveillance upon the NZ population and that those plans to conduct such mass surveillance were being discussed between the GCSB and the NSA – the Government’s response has been that everything being said was a fabrication.

We now know that was a total lie…

No factual basis for suggesting Snowden GCSB docs ‘fabricated’ – PM office

The Prime Minister’s office has said it has no factual basis for suggesting Edward Snowden documents which exposed GCSB secrets were “fabricated”.

But it has also said some of those with access to the Snowden documents – apparently including journalist Glenn Greenwald – “have a track record of misrepresenting, misinterpreting and misunderstanding information”.

The “fabrication” claim has been part of the Prime Minister’s standard response to revelations of activities carried out by New Zealand’s electronic eavesdropping agency.

Details of the GCSB’s work have included spying on international diplomats in support of Trade Minister Tim Groser’s bid to lead the World Trade Organisation, feeding information to Bangaladeshi security forces facing murder and torture allegations and sending “full take” communications data from the Pacific to the National Security Agency.

The stories – in a reporting partnership with journalist Nicky Hager and the Greenwald-founded news site The Intercept – showed New Zealand had a job-sharing role in international intelligence gathering for the Five Eyes group of nations, which also includes Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom and the US.

The Five Eyes intelligence gathering group is led by the US, with the other countries holding “second party” status.

Other nations outside the group are the “third party” or less partners.

The Herald sought any information held by the Prime Minister which informed him or his office over the alleged “fabrication”.

The Prime Minister’s chief of staff Wayne Eagleson said “no information has been identified”. He said the PM’s office had to refuse the request because the “information requested does not exist or cannot be found”.

…NZers and the media focused only on Kim Dotcom’s decision not to reveal the evidence he is holding onto for his deportation hearing. That focus managed to ignore everything else that Julian Assange, Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden had to say.


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NZers aren’t able to focus on more than one thing unless it’s rugby.


History will damn us far harsher than the present has over our decision as a nation to collectively ignore the mass surveillance state that John key and this Government have built.


  1. Yes passively going quietly into the night.
    That hasn’t worked out too well for MANY countries in recent history has it ???
    But he’s a nice smiling man that was born with nought and made good (well probably fiddled millions on Wall St, but NO ONE in NZ LSM has been bothered to check up on that !!!!)…….well so did Hitler and he was frequently voted the sexiest man in Germany in the day.
    It seems SO easy to fool Kiwis to accept their subjugation by wealthy foreigner……so no wonder they’re happy to take the ‘candy off the babies’ and accept the lovely tax breaks offered to ease their immigration.

  2. Another member of the five eyes fascist yank club,Canada is doing the same:

    ” “The verdict from Canadians is clear—Bill C-51 will recklessly endanger our rights and our privacy, while making us less safe,” Christopher said in a separate statement on Monday. “The top privacy and security experts in the land are warning about the damage this extreme legislation will lead to in terms of the reckless disclosure of the sensitive information of innocent Canadians.

    “It’s incredibly irresponsible for this government to defy Canadians by ramming this unpopular legislation through. Regardless of the outcome of the vote, as the election comes into focus Canadians will remember which MPs endorsed this reckless and dangerous piece of legislation.”

    As the Guardian points out, “The campaign to stop Bill C-51 grew to include virtually every civil-rights group, law professor, retired judge, author, editorialist and public intellectual in Canada.”

    Daniel Therrien, Privacy Commissioner of Canada, warned in a statement in March, “The scale of information sharing being proposed is unprecedented, the scope of the new powers conferred by the act is excessive, particularly as these powers affect ordinary Canadians, and the safeguards protecting against unreasonable loss of privacy are seriously deficient.” ”

    It seems the Canadian Government has been more open about it and there is far ranging protest against its abuse of citizens’ rights.

    Here the public haven’t been told but lied to and it’s covered up. That makes us more covertly fascist even than Canada?

    • Harper and Key are cut from the same cloth. Having said that, if you hear Harper speak, he’s more blatantly in-your-face than Key has ever been. He’s from the “this is how it’s going to be, now sit down and shut up” school of communication, whereas Key is more of a “nothing to see here, apart from pathetic left-wing conspiracies, now move along” kind of guy.

      Both bastards though; that goes without saying.

  3. “Yeah Right”

    The whole affair was a media beat-up, so they actually harmed us all since for their determination seemed to be was to play it all as “nothing here”.

    I graphically recall when Paddy Gower & Duncan Garner both started by saying it was a side show.

    They are both irresponsible to true journalistic integrity here and should be pelted rocks at, (like the Arabs do to their traitors.)

    Their lack of journalistic integrity against us all has now exacted much impact as many are now being harmed by their silence.

    Shame on this complicit MSM, so again we call on all political parties to combine in a rare show of unity and send an order to court to seize half the public asset TVNZ/RNZ and take under control of half for their combined use to offer true be partisan media coverage not just the National controlled propaganda we are always now swamped with.

  4. Even the NSA has been unable to debunk anything Snowden has revealed.
    A lot of surveillance is corporate oriented these days, and it is pervasive and far reaching thanks to the the changes under the Key govt, “nothing to hide etc…“ is so off the mark.

    People can have perfectly good reasons for not wanting to have the state snooping on them without being some kind of ’terrorist’ or security risk. Such as wanting to conduct their lives relatively unmolested by big brother, not wanting their employer to know everything they do, ditto insurance companies and ACC.

    As for “the moment of truth”, it was always a huge gamble. Win or bust. Internet Mana ran aground in the end due to a too tight time frame and fundamental mistakes.
    –not keeping KDC in the background
    –hiring Pam Corkery, Laila was otherwise excellent
    –changing the signage from basic black with vote internet Mana to smartarsery that was too hard to take in at a glance from a vehicle
    –The Road Trip should not have been extended, therefore freeing up people to hit the electorates
    –underestimating the Te Tai Tokerau battle and sellout from Labour and just about everyone else! Immense resources, and maximum effort should have been put into securing Hones seat

    But history will indeed show that Greenwald and co were correct

  5. Germany is facing big questions about very similar spying allegations that FJK has been accused of. Merkel is like FJK and is denying everything. The american influence in their elections and media is also under the spotlight. All the same things are happening here but nobody seems to be able to get the stupid ppl to wake the fark up.

  6. Yes Ann,
    Germany is a closed society as my Son has been there some years as a kiwi and the Germans still have difficulty handing the carefree independence that they don’t appear to wish to have.

    Regimentation is the term to describe their mannerism and still even after the second world war the German populous are still enslaved.

    Our PM has adopted many techniques that made Germany such a uniformly controlled society, and this causes me serious worries here.

    I as a kiwi Lived in USA during the 1990’s and the law there then was “live and let live”

    This is where NZ should be today not heading for Plutocracy and a autocratic Governance.

    USA is now suffering from the change from a truly free open society I enjoyed into a similar Autocratic state as we and others are, so really we are facing an unspoken war upon our freedom.

  7. Martyn, I write as a swinging voter, who last time voted Labour, a key factor being the loss of local industries/institutions, without those mandating the losses considering the wider picture.

    But I think I can see why — in part, at least — the Nats got back, and why you were so gobsmacked at their electoral success (to quote yourself, you did not see this coming). I attended a talk by David Cunliffe at the University last year, and he made some comment against the GCSB, got a round of applause, and he then said well, that’s the first thing I’ve said which got applause. The audience was, naturally, mostly academics, and party supporters.

    I sat there somewhat bemused. I really don’t care too much about the GCSB, and if some agency has so little to do they want to trawl through my emails looking for indicator words, I am not too fussed (only concerned about the waste of money). I don’t live in N Korea, or Burma, or Syria, or pre-war Germany, or post-war Berlin-walled East Germany (in passing, I do recommend the movie Barbara, from that era). This is NZ. And I suspect this is how most NZers feel: spying is not something most of us are worried about, it’s more our jobs, our access to hospitals, our children’s schooling and employment. And, in the regions, the funding flowing into Auckland and ChCh, aka ABC (Auckland bloody ChCh, as I’ve heard say), and not elsewhere (vide Northland).

    This academic audience purred back at David, I suppose giving him to think spying/DotCom/Snowden/Assange are what is agitating voters. But what I’m concerned about is that this group — and, apparently, most of those who offer comment on this page — comprise what is unflatteringly known as the left-wing echo chamber, whose members reassure each other that they are all In The Right, warm fuzzies all round, and that, surely, the populace will follow.

    I do suggest, cast your vision beyond your Castle Paranoia, out beyond your ramparts, and see where we peasants actually live, and what we actually want.

  8. The “Moment of Truth” was an incredible ! event and to bad the bulk of this country did not realize the truths and importance of such a happening at that time. A panel of people who were trying to expose the truths and not playing dirty politics at all.

    A bit more from one of the best journalists in the world who knows what integrity and honesty means — Glenn Greenwald.

  9. I am genuinely concerned about surveillance within our society, but you seem to be missing the point about the MoT. This was hailed in advance as the moment when Kim Dotcom would reveal his evidence that John Key lied about when he first heard of him. That is why the media turned up and covered the event. That’s why people turned up. In the end there was a big fat zero. A bit like getting 50,000 people into Eden Park promising the All Blacks and delivering the All Whites instead. It may be entertaining, but it wasn’t what was promised.

  10. The average New Zealander looks at life in a far simpler way

    If this blog is happy that the “Moment of Truth” presentation based on on information allegedly stolen by Assange, Snowdon (via Greenwald) and Kim Dotcom is okay and that Nicky Hager is an asset to this country, then as a country we have no prospect of ever being united.

    Assange and Snowdon are not welcome to their respective homes and Dotcom – who knows. Hager sells books but his rants do not appeal to me.

    • Your opinion is more akin to book burners than rational citizens. Allowing the National Party to have this level of mass surveillance is the issue, your need to slag those showing the lies is a perfect example of why NZ is so backwards.

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