The Aotearoa Environmental Socialist Party

1. My understanding is that New Zealand doesn’t have an enshrined constitution. Rather, constitutional issues are referred to precedents. The shortcomings of that system are obvious.

   Also, you forgot to add fossil fuels to your vice tax list.

   I’ll read the costings and budgetary analysis of all these policies with great interest.

2. while I think there is the need for some sort of unequivocal Left Alliance independent of the Labour Party ( which is hopelessly compromised imo)

   I do not agree with the conjecture … “if the Greens select a new strategy to work with National ”

   ….imo this is not where the Greens Party is at …most Greens are as Left as Mana/Int

   ….although I admit there are some OUTSIDERS with big egos who like to laud it over others… who would like it to become a Blue -Green Party or “TRANSCEND” …( dont laugh)… Left-Right political distinctions ( these faux Greenies like always to appear trendos…but they are really right wing autocratic fascist wankers imo)

   …they would destroy the Greens because the biggest enemy of the Green environmental movement is runaway laissez faire cronyist corporate Capitalism

   ….the Greens have many policy similarities with Int/Mana….and should work together to spearhead a genuine Left Alliance party ….which will draw from rank and file members of both Labour and NZF…and/or force those parties into the Left coalition

3. The Aotearoa Environmental Socialist Party – I wish, I wish.

   Something along the lines of the AESP is everything my staunch socialist grandmother (a woman way ahead of her time) spoke to me of, a very long time ago.

   Despite my advancing years now and the fact it’s something I’d probably not benefit from personally due to my age, this is however an aim I try to work towards, for a more egalitarian Aotearoa/NZ my grandchildren and future generations are able to enjoy.

   Bring it on 🙂

4. Good to see you promoting a lot of good policies. On virtually all the policies you have listed the Greens either already have that policy, or at least at least closer to that policy than Labour. It’s a tired refrain from the right and left that the Greens may be moving to the centre. A better strategy is to encourage them to stay left – even if it doesn’t allow the space for your envisioned new party.

   • +100…the Greens cannot afford to go to the Right…they would destroy their Green brand…and absolutely everything they stand for….however the Right is welcome to move towards the Greens

   • that is all very well keith..

     ..but the realities are that greens election ’14 were ‘relaxed’ about drilling/mining etc..

     ..and pot-reform wasn’t on their to-do list..

     ..to namecheck just a few..

   • The trouble with the “Green ” label is that it is seen as as a one issue wonder. I think that thinking NZ’ers are looking for an independent government that supports business and international trade but not at the expense of our own people or those other countries that “The empire of Chaos” has chosen to vilify this week. China and Russia are more closely aligned to what we conceive as democracy than the USA and the EU are (surprisingly) but it is extremely difficult to break away from entrenched alliances, even when these have been proven to be hazardous to life on earth as is the case with Washington. The NZ mainstream media is quite traitorous in this respect as they do not present the truth regarding American imperialism and what it may lead to (Nuclear war) but insist on tabloid headlines about ISIS, Russia, etc. This plays into the hands of the American supported “John Key Bankster” Government but where are the alternatives.
     Community Banking
     Government subsidisation of R & D
     Cooperative producer boards
     Small Business encouragement
     Disincentives to financial parasitic behaviour (derivatives, Forex trading)
     Opposition to US attempts to capture NZ before China does TPPA

     If the Green Party wishes to capture the “left” it needs to enlighten and enthuse the NZ public with these issues. This is what they believe in they just don’t know that is not the path that they are being led down by John Key who pretends to be “one of the boys” but is just a nark for the Washington Neocons.

     • IKE;

       Could not have said it better.
       Especially your comment about Russia and China.

       Unless people switch off the West’s MSM they will never to be
       able to see the extent of the lies and propaganda of the Global
       Elite’s foghorn/megaphone.

       If they want mainstream the only place is RT and their web site http://www.rt.com is even better because you can get thru it
       faster. Just view your interest and the show’s and doco’s are excellent.
       No Celeb hype,continual sport and other dumbed down distractions and no continual stream of adds.

       They have to get their info on the internet and to learn where to go.
       They would soon end up gobsmacked!.

       I believe the Green’s are another controlled party and in Europe they usually team up with the right.

       Like Greenpeace(who seem to chase after whales a lot)they
       never talk about the real issues facing us.
       Like toxins and GMO’s in our food chain,fluoride in our water and massive amounts of glyphosate strewn about not only the
       enviroment but all over our fruits and vegetables.
       Like you alluded to,Round up is NOT safe,another huge lie.

       The people on the ground are probably genuine but don’t realize a lot of what is handed down by UN is simply not true and they should do their own research.

       http://www.mercola.com and http://www.globalresearch.ca should be enough.
       Get on the bloody right side of history and that applies to ALL
       party’s.

       Sometimes I really wonder whether the young people today have the cognitive abilities to do so.

       Cheers.

5. what list ,I wish. utopia is just round the corner, sorry Martyn but my eyes glazed over and this is not meant to be a negative criticism. So many of that excellent list are complete anathema to the neo liberal Right and National.. But thanks for putting it up there gives all community minded voters a taste of what might be, …..one day

   • +100..”gives all community minded voters a taste of what might be, …..one day”.

6. I just ticked 5 stars rating, for this great article, but instead it came up 3 stars. Something went wrong there. Can you change that somehow ?

   Yes ! there is room for this kind of party because it is right; fair and just.
   Something new here to seriously look at.
   Sound, sane and intelligent strategies.
   Some great ideas / plans you have put together. Great job.

   I dare anyone to discount the value of any of the above on the list.
   I dare anyone to give one good reason why the above would not turn this
   country around for the better and bring more compassion and equality.
   This is all about freedom and human rights and protecting our environment. What’s wrong with any of that – donkey jonkey ?
   Wake up Labour and strengthen the spine.
   Too bad Labour does not endorse the majority of the above great ideas for our wonderful country. Revolution anyone ?
   Others are moving in that direction and so can we.

   Russell Brand talks about his ideas for England and what he affirms, I feel, is relevant for the world as well. Please consider listening to the whole interview below as the beginning is more entertaining comedic fluff than substance.

   http://www.democracynow.org/2014/11/14/russell_brand_on_revolution_fighting_inequality

   • How is this list about “freedom”? Surely every dollar given to one person, is a dollar taken from another?

     • No. It’s funded by reserve bank credit AND taxes.

     • I agree but when that other person has gained his dollars by ripping off his workers and not being truly accountable for the full costs of his enterprise it all gets much more complicated. The dismal moral state of the USA shows us what too little control and accountability to society achieves, the failure of the Soviet Union shows us what too much central control achieves.

     • That sounds like more libertarian mumbo-jumbo. Legislating in favour of employers leads to more money in their pockets, then the Right cries over taxes, when it’s workers and labourers who create the wealth in society, not employers.

   • BLAKE;

     Hi, Was most intrigued by your comment in “If only we could be a……”
     Martyn’s march 16th. on the angle of ‘Chat room’.

     I still have part of my reply on another tab but got called away and
     then the priority of the latest post’s came into play.

     I am slow with computer skills but speeding up,especially after your
     comment on Hippie spirit.Made me realize mine had flagged somewhat.
     Thanks for the lift you gave me.Keep looking for my reply.

     Agree with everything you have said. I am starting to realize that
     comments of readers I align with are in our age group or close to and maybe it’s because we know what we once had and how important it is to make a contribution for the younger people.
     We have the time as well.

     They probably don’t know we used to have the 2nd to top standard
     of living in the world,second to South Africa, only because we never
     had a servant for every household. Imagine that. Someone,living like
     a dog,out in the back shed to come in and do your cleaning,cooking,
     washing and any thing else you may require.(now,now,keep it clean)

     Moving on;Just a word of caution about Russell Brand.

     I initially stared to get taken in by David Ike.
     With all the reading I had done on my journey to today (see my story on Rachael Goldsmith column on Gardasil) I knew that what he
     was saying was 100% correct. But when he started to talk of a mystical experience and then that the Elite got messages from alien
     entities etc then I knew what I was dealing with.
     The young might get taken in but not our age group,taught to be
     critical thinkers.
     Another aspect is more likely the ploy of once you dismiss him on aliens,you are more likely to dismiss all his information.

     I believe he is a shill. ie 95% of what he saiz is true but that crucial
     5% is not.
     And when he came out to NZ,just before the election and he was
     interviewed on TV3,right at the end he said-paraphrase,”you got to make your own decision,but me? I probably wouldn’t vote”! Whamo!
     Confirmed my opinion and wonder who paid for his trip,all the way to
     NZ,right before an election. I am told one basic rule in ‘phsy-ops’ or
     deception is ‘follow the money’ and you would probably find the
     ‘Establishment’.

     To keep Key in power was crucial. We couldn’t have Cunliffe unpicking everything,especially when he talked about buying the
     the energy companies back.His biggest mistake was to say this far to early in the game and gave them plenty of time to move against him,including his own caucus. “The old guard’
     Left Key to ‘double down’ in his last term,plenty more to come.

     To discourage youth not to vote has got to help the right vote.
     Youth are normally anti-establishment,like we were. Thus low youth
     vote.I am not saying his influence caused all of it,but every little bit
     helps.

     Webster Tarpley talks of these things.
     Always keep your eye out for false prophets.
     People acting ‘under left cover’.
     The ‘experts opinion’ that’s presented with no valid documentation.
     When the trust comes,you believe the rest.
     You want to know who they are,where they come from and who are
     they working for.

     Russell Brand is entirely another kettle of fish. I like him. He’s witty
     (most good english humour is,John Cleese ) he’s very intelligent,with
     an excellent command of the english language,he can have me intrigued in his ability to rip people apart with words and his attacks
     on the establishment and status- quo.

     But in the back of my mind I think his talk of revolution etc was similar to what we got in our day with the Beatles etc.(did it come?)
     And then he has the same message about non-voteting,pull away
     from ‘the system'(I loved Saxondale).
     But just my opinion,and I love to see him in full flight,it’s just I hardly
     watch MSM anymore.

     Hope I have not damaged any of your pleasure,I still enjoy,but just
     saying.

     Keep a look out for that reply. I was in the middle of saying something about “truthseeker’ and why it seemed to be pulled after
     the 9/11 episode. When you search on site(RT.com)you will find them listed as 42 episodes. The 9/11 one was eps.23 and quite a few at the end is about the carnage in Ukraine.
     When you click on them you keep being flicked back to the front
     page. I don’t think now that RT would do this.If they were pressured
     to take them down they would not be there.
     More likely they are being blocked by intel. and our feed comes from
     America?
     Have you got 42 eps recorded?

     They were the best. Short,concise and info validated with documentation. You had to watch them twice or more with the pace
     so fast.

     See my reply to IKE above and COUNTRYBOY below.
     Cheers.

7. looks ok 2 me..

   http://whoar.co.nz/2015/the-aotearoa-environmental-socialist-party/

8. I agree with Keith. There is absolutely no desire amongst Green Party members to move to the Right. If the Greens became a centrist party, nearly all its members would simply move to a new party that represented all of the values it currently stands for. The Green Party is essentially a environmental and social movement party, meaning the party is a means to an ends, not an ends in itself.

   • @ e.p..

     the problem with the greens is they have compromised their founding-ideals so much..

     ..they are in danger of disappearing up their lowest-orifice..

9. Hoo-bloody-ray! About time Martyn, where do I sign up?

10. Yup – I’ll be in for a new party – got a few names going lol
    Our tearoa Party??

11. Put me down as candidate for Napier, cheers.

12. You had me at rejection of TPPA.

13. Great list… but to pay for it, the power to create money must be taken away from the banks and returned to the state.

14. What a silly little list mostly . Sorry , but it is . ‘ Vice tax ‘ . Oh My God . The worst possible vice to have is to be terminally ‘normal’ . I like fags , sugar , booze and gambling ! I also like swearing , fighting , shagging and driving fast and I’m ok ! If you could see me you’d be amazed !
    Death duties ? Fuck off . People should be allowed to build capital around their lives to hand on to their kids . It’s how the capital’s gained in the first place that should be more closely examined . A capital gains tax however . Now , that’s more like it .
    And no mention of where you think all the money will come from to enact your New Left strategy ? None of your wish list strategy is possible without income . So where does the mythical income , come from ? If you’re thinking from borrowing then think again . That’s what we do , that’s where jonky came from and he’s leading us down the gurgler with billions of dollars worth of debt . Oi Vey ! What a disaster ! ?
    So , where does the money come from then ? Tourism ? Hahahahahahahahahahhaha ! ! ! Can’t breath , can’t breath …… !
    Who earns our income ? Come on , cough it up . You know you have to . Sooner rather than later . You can do it .
    And interestingly , you never mentioned constraints on that Bastard Industry that is Banking . Those fuckers are the real enemy . And money lenders generally .
    Any New Left must be an entirely New beastie . A brave , proud and classy wee beastie . Not some sluggish , mincing ninny of a thing with its little hand held out . It must start with a roar and keep on roaring until no one can ignore it and no one would dare get in its way .

    • Gotta agree with you about banking country boy but a vice tax is fine. you can always brew/grow your own. Death tax I agree with you too. If you have worked hard for your offspring to benefit. why not? Where does the income come from? Financial transaction tax. Don’t tell me about Sweden’s experience I don’t believe it.

    • COUNTRYBOY;

      I partly agree with your opposition to a tax ‘fags,sugar,booze and gambling’. I used to part take in all four.
      To tax something that is truly addictive, like nicotine and sugar is cruel.
      It hurts nobody but your self and before those that will jump to say
      ‘but the cost takes food out the kids mouths’ is true but ponder this.

      Tobacco used to be really cheap and taxes paid,even then,was more
      than enough to cover any heath costs associated.
      The Maori Party has done more damage to their very own people than they would ever admit by rolling out this destructive policy.
      $70 a pouch and $20 a pack! Come on. Now how much food is missing!
      And how long does this go on for?

      It’s my opinion that these partners of Gvt are handed policy to do just that-like Act with Charter schools,the first step on the ladder to privatization of education. Designed to destroy our high standard(or was).Hasn’t worked anywhere yet still gone ahead.
      To dumb us done and impoverish us.(poor even more)
      Note the continual attacks on teachers.

      For some people the addiction is to strong.
      My father was a chain smoker(hence the family) till later years and died 86.
      He smoked tobacco but these cigarettes have chemicals in them to
      make You more addicted,just like processed food.

      Cost of sugar is minimal, so to me its more about education.

      Where as alcohol and gambling which are not really physically
      addictive can truly hurt the people around you with
      violence and absence from your family.

      You are worried about the funding and of course the Banksters.
      Couldn’t agree more.

      First of all, a financial transaction tax is included in Martyn’s list.
      Webster Tarpley will tell you that a 1% tax on all transactions would
      more than cover what’s required.
      Europe is seriously considering this.

      Coupled with going back to
      tariffs on all imports (and exports?) on particular classes of goods
      We can all end up paying NO TAXES AT ALL! (or minimal?)
      ie you are paying on all goods bought and sold.

      This was the situation in America prior to 1913 and was how it
      prospered immensely,until a small group of families managed to take
      control of the FED. (which has never been audited properly I might add)
      Imagine, 8 private families printing money for nothing and CHARGING THE GVT INTEREST! How obscene is that?
      This is the concept of Central Banking. What I would like to know is
      what is the real situation here?
      And to add insult to injury,money is not even backed by gold anymore.
      It’s called FIAT currency and has never,ever,worked in history.

      The Daily Bell,Webster Tarpley and Paul Craig Roberts will tell you that this evil system is the real reason that we are not all in control
      of our Nations.
      “Who ever prints the money is in control of the country” unquote.

      We are never taught in education how money works.
      The real reason JFK was killed was that he was setting up a Bank of America (money based on silver) that belonged to the people.
      Also he was going to wind down or end the CIA.(not the Mafia myth)
      He could have been killed anywhere or how(like I believe Norm Kirk)
      The big public spectacle was designed to prevent others.

      This idea should be added to the list. With what value base you might ask?
      On the total value of NZ’s resources! and with our huge
      Continental Shelf that is enormous!
      Under the ‘system of the powers that be’ these bastards are eyeing
      all of it up for themselves.

      Remember too that capital gains tax is paid almost everywhere so
      why not NZ? That’s the big question.
      And no bloody party ever goes into an election with a policy to raise
      taxes if they want to win! (you do that when you win)
      And to raise the retirement age on the very people you represent!

      I believe the phony ‘left and right’ are controlled by by the same
      people and they work in tandem achieving other peoples goals.
      I’ve told you who they are(believe it or not)in past comments and we get a chance
      when the next collapse comes.
      All it needs is mass awareness and the right people in the right places with courage. That tipping point is coming.
      We have to break away from these people.
      Don’t let them provide ‘another solution’ which has been their game
      for centuries.

      “Evil happens when good people stand by an do nothing!” unquote.

      Martyn’s list is a good start.
      We should all praise him for setting up and providing us with this
      excellent forum.
      It is developing into not only a source of idea’s and opinion but a
      data base where wide awake and concerned readers are providing valuable links of information all in the one place ,where others might
      go because they do not have the time to do their research.

      As CLEANGREEN saiz, ‘many eyes’ and many eyes make lite work.

      Martyn,keep up the good work.

      Cheers.

15. It seems to me under this proposed regime the only part the Government is not playing in one’s life is telling a person how many breaths one should take in a day or how many times it is possible to visit the loo.

16. Some good ideas in the list, also some questionable ones..

    “Treaty of Waitangi enshrined in new upper chamber of Parliament”

    Why on earth do we need an upper chamber? All it will be good for is adding more bureaucracy, I think the current system is definitely preferable. And if this includes your idea of having mandated 50% representation of Maori then it is just ludicrous.

    Also most of these policies are incredibly expensive and simply not feasible, at least not with massive tax increases (or borrowing lots of money, usually not a good idea), though I understand a smaller party such as this would only be advocating for the ideas, not necessarily demanding they are all implemented.

    Also a vice tax on sugar? For it too have any effect it would need to be fairly large, which of course would effect the poor more than anyone else.

    “Fundamental changes to the way sexual crimes are prosecuted and investigated”

    This definitely needs to happen, but on a police/investigation level, no changes to the judicial system that put due process at risk, as it has been proposed in the past.

    • Don

      We had an upper chamber until 1950 when Holland’s Nats stacked it with their own appointees who promptly voted to abolish it:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Legislative_Council

      The advantage a bicameral system offers compared to our present unicameral model is that; there is a check upon the passage of laws that might render tactics such as the current government’s misuse of urgency less effective. With a written constitution, we would be able to have an upper house check laws passed in the lower house for consistency with that constitution (as opposed to the present system where the Attorney General can regularly state that given laws breach the NZ Bill of Rights, but then turn around and vote for them anyway).

      The room is still there, but only really used on ceremonial occasions involving the monarch or their elected representative (who is barred from entering the main chamber). If the council was to be reestablished in some form, it would be important that it was not appointed by the PM (through the GG), but instead was democratically elected. Though perhaps for a longer term to counteract the short term thinking so evident in our current parliament (but not for life as previously).

17. I’m voting for that

18. Language is important, or should be. The concept of a Vice or Sin Tax really deserves to be framed as a Public Health Tax; vice has altogether the wrong associations.

    As for New Zealand’s non-existent constitution, this has already been dealt with by someone else; after much searching you’ll find it along with New Zealand’s robust democracy inside the Holy Grail.

19. Only thing missing from that list is a progressive tax system.

20. I agree with Keith, it looks a lot like the Greens.

    It is also less radical than the Labour Parties of a century ago (or even 60 years ago), which gives you an idea of how far to the right Western politics have shifted following the end of the Cold War.

    I think a real left alternative needs to revive these classical socialist demands:
    * Full employment (existed in NZ 50 years ago)
    * Transition to democratic public ownership of the economy by nationalisation (Labour policy until Blairism/Rogernomics)
    * A maximum wage, and other measures to ensure distribution according to work
    * Opposition to ALL imperialist wars and alliances (Labour leaders went to jail for this during WWI)

    You can’t tax and spend your way to socialism while the rich elite still own everything – they’ll still be pulling the strings (and eventually they’ll kick you out if you don’t play by their rules). In the end you the workers have to take back all that they built – but this requires a mass popular movement, and one hell of a fight. Just look at what’s happening in Venezuela right now (see also Chile 1973, etc. etc.)

    • It looks nothing like the Greens. A minimum wage isn’t even close to providing anything other than wage slaves. Even the Living Wage is only that at forty hours. The Greens are weak on labour law, unionism, their housing policey last election was a joke & they didn’t back free tertiary or decriminalisation, instead opting for medicinal. WTF? The Greens with their talk of Green Economics, under the leadership of Russel and Meteria have moved futher to the centre already.

      There is space for an alternative left wing party that embraces UBI and the ability for everyone to live a life with dignity, not forced to beg for top ups from WINZ. I want a NZ where having an education, house, food & time off with your family arent privileges reserved for the few, but are instead entrenched rights for all.

21. Puritanical taxes like the ones promoted as ‘vice tax’ here is extremely anti-working class. Bomber would do well to have less musings on what this imaginary parties platform could be, and maybe consider some actual analysis of why one hasn’t occurred here but has managed to come to power in Greece.

22. Good list Martyn,

    We do need to revert back to rail as our roading bill is throttling us all with the burgeoning increasing truck gridlocked roads killing our citizens every week/day it seems. Every death on the roads cost us $3.5 Million now draining our economy.

    Restore a dedicated Minister of rail as we had last time we owned the rail network, and be aggressive at moving freight back to rail, and set about eliminating the powerful NatZ inspired Road Transport Forum.
    Another thing is we need a truly independent Governor General as this one is useless he is a figurehead “Uncle Tom” for Key’s corrupt Government with no spine or teeth to check their runaway toxic lies and threats and use of NZ Police as their Protection force.

    Lots to fix in the wake of Key we fear or a revolution will eventuate.

    Illumination of hedge fund operations in NZ as they cause damage with speculation which leads down to corruption.

    Then sign me up comrade.

23. It’s pointless to target the Greens yes again as having the potential to sell out to National. It’s impossible that they do that. As Keith points out your list of policies are Green party ones (the only exceptions being free tertiary education and public transport right now – they aim for free tertiary education and plan to bring it in, but it’s difficult to do with a click of the hands, plus their Green card policy is a start towards the free public transport). In my view it’s better to aim it what can be built instead of continuing to attempt to split our cause like this. We need all like minded parties at the table. Without this we cannot change the government. This was the strength of the Alliance at first – but it lost its way due to a lack of democracy with New Labour’s leader Anderton. We need to learn from that and the Green have shown that their consensus system can make it work. The Greens are actually your allies Martin, not your enemies.

    • Let’s see who they elect as Male co-leader

Comments are closed.