The SIS won’t use 48 hour warrantless spying for ‘evidence’



Let’s just slay one of the myths the Government are trying to use right now to justify the SIS 48 hour warrantless search fishing expeditions shall we?

The Government has been telling all who listen over the weekend that the SIS will need to ensure all 48 hour warrantless searches gain warrants OR the surveillance won’t gain the evidential threshold necessary to take the case the Court.

What a load of double speak bullshit.

Sure, if the point of what the SIS is doing is to gain a Court conviction, they will need to gain a warrant, but that’s not the only reason the SIS would spy on people. They could simply be spying on people for 48 hours for intel. There is no reason whatsoever for any of what the SIS does to ever come to Court, their ability to gather surveillance and gain intelligence on various groups is their strength, they will use 48 hour warrantless surveillance for what ever purpose they like, and seeing as they get to decide what is a threat, everyone in NZ is impacted by this.

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This law allows for the SIS to break into your home, plant spy cameras and spy on you for 48 hours without a warrant.  The claim by the Government that those warrantless searches will gain warrants if the SIS want a successful prosecution is a cleverly spun lie as it assumes a prosecution is what the SIS is after rather than raw intel on activist groups. How sad is it that NZers can be so easily tricked and deceived by fear mongering into willingly handing over their civil rights?

The PR spin job used to justify this erosion of our civil liberties has been skewered perfectly by Andrea Vance over the weekend.

The sleepy hobbits of Muddle Nu Zilind with their ‘in-John-we-trust’ mentality deserve the Eye of Mordor they get, horrifyingly for the rest of us that means we live with their blind faith and wilful ignorance as well.

The only threat to our democracy comes from John Key and his dirty politics, mass surveillance lying, civil liberty eroding Government – not bloody ISIS!


  1. This is a very valid point. If the SIS wants to use the information they obtain under these sneak-and-peek powers in court they would need to be sure it’ll meet the threshold to get a warrant afterwards. As Martyn has rightly pointed out, what if they don’t want to use the information in court?

    In most cases I would imagine, the SIS isn’t interested in taking people to court, that’s what the police do. So, the reassurance that any warrantless spying will have to meet those standards is worthless.

    Another thought I had over the weekend. What is to stop the SIS ‘rolling over’ these 48 hour periods? They spy on somebody without a warrant for 48 hours, don’t get quite what they need, so just do the same again for another 48, and another, and another, and so on.

    I can think of several ways in which this power can be abused, but let’s not forget that they are inherently an abuse of our civil liberties. With a population living under the threat of invasive surveillance, never knowing whether they are or are not being watched, they will internalise the watcher and limit their true feelings, thoughts or statements if they oppose those in power. These powers have the effect of stifling legitimate political dissent, that’s not healthy for democracy.

    For those who state we need these powers for safety, I’ll just remind them that all of the massively expanded powers of surveillance in the US and around the world since 9/11 have not stopped one single terrorist attack.

    So, to conclude, these powers undermine our civil liberties and they’re not even fit for the purpose they are supposed to be introduced for.

  2. You saw the photograph of the crowd protesting against the TPPA . How about we see a photograph of people protesting FOR the TPPA ?

    How about we see a photograph of the 48% who voted for The Corporate jonky-Bot ?

    How about we see the million people who didn’t vote at all ?

    We Hobbits aren’t so much sleepy as wide awake in a nightmare and none of us know what to do about it .

    The Corporate jonky-Bot can , and will , put spooks in your house but it has nothing to do with ISIS as you rightly point out here . The Corporate jonky-Bot is paving the way for the Corporate take-over of NZ .

    Get rid of the banks , wipe out mortgage debt , renationalise our assets . Lets go it alone . Otherwise , the link below should give you a clue as to where we’re headed .

    You want to see Tomorrow Land today ? Here it is .

    Enjoy .

  3. Its dawned on me that National have been elected by the rugby crowd. You see them going to the rugger, generally conservative white middle class, all dress similar, the Bobbsey twins who go along to hurrah the chaps, even in the depths of the paint drying boredom their national game generates, maybe even chuckle at a bit a “claret” being spilt on the filled but all dreadfully well behaved, orderly drones nonetheless and at the end of the day it’s all jolly predictable and safe being the same and not to be questioned.

    Hence this is why we get this shit, never ever question anything in NZ, just believe that evil lurks at the next taxi stand or the good news story headlines that come out (Westpacs big thanks to John Key and boys for keeping us in debt with their “Houdini” economy comment, being the latest stinking pile of manure) and especially believe the John Key myths and legends that tell them he is a wealthy businessman who therefore knows what he is doing for the best.

      • Yes, I call them ‘the Thems’ (as in not one of us), it’s a little bit chilling living with ‘the Thems’. I avoid parking next to them, and when I come back to my little Morris 1000 and a ‘Them’s’ has parked next to me I can’t bloody see backing past their stupid oversized machines I’m sure they park next to me to piss me off, it’s a wonder they don’t use my car as a step to get down from their ridiculously high cock pit.

  4. Instead of viewing it as forcing people to hide their true feeling/expressions etc, why not see it as the State forcing everyone to become an artist? The exposure of everyone doing all those things on camera that curently only pop-stars do via the evil of the paprazzi: imagine the effect on society.

    Forget creeping Fascism, it would be a self-inflicted Anarchist revolution by the Right. Free at last, Free at last, thank god almighty we’ll be free at last! No more respected Doctor of medicine hiding the quick joint out by the garage, no more wife bashing and child abuse by the protected classes, no more rugby fans denying they sneak a quick peek of mum’s Woman’s Day because they do actually like the articles, no more “we’re rich and perfect and you aren’t” mentality possible. People exposed as people, and flawed, and unique, and common. Cool. Bring it on!

  5. Strange that there’s no mention of the TPPA protests in Auckland from NZ Herald…Surely that’s newsworthy! I guess not for Pro National media companies…

  6. Keys plan with the non court spying is to monitor who is standing up against him with the most power and threat, then he’ll act with a warrant to get those people out of the way, and that’ll help clear the way for his corporate takeover plot.
    Well Key, here’s some sad news for you from me, I’m not backing down and licking your boots, get your own party lockers to do it for you, you’ve got enough of them.
    To the supporters against the TPPA, I’ve put up a petition calling for a vote of no confidence against Key himself, you want Key out, then sign the petition.
    He can’t arrest the masses, there’s no where for him to put us. Let’s do this folks, let’s get rid of Key before he does it to us.
    Trevor Mills.

  7. I think it is appalling that the ex minister of Justice is bff with Cameron Slater and passing intel to him. Imagine what will happen with the 48 hr surveillance bill? Forget Justice! It is not here in NZ now and is going to get a lot worse with this bill and the TPPA combined.

  8. As has been quite rightly pointed out, SIS isnt going to court anytime soon. Its like those Fonterra milk supply contracts which exclude dirty dairying, never been used, ever.
    What SIS is worried about is being ‘dragged’ into court over its spying, thats when the 48 hour excuse will be used to prevent any judicial review of their activities.
    So I guess all those hand my heart assurances Key gave us before the election about ‘safeguards’ are now shown to be polishing a turd.
    WE can look back and see the SIS dont keep correct records so they have given false information about their overall activities, SIS agents have been directly involved with some targets( Rajesh Singh) rather than just be doing background intell and sureveillance.
    So the place was a rats nest and the last fig leafs of so called warrants has been blown away. if they are using GCSB to access computer hardrives 48 hours is more than enough to take it all.

  9. The Right love state surveillance as long as it’s left-wingers who are being surveilled. The moment a left wing government does it, it’s NANNY STATE!!!!

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