Why Cunliffe should probably just let Nash & Robertson win



We have to face some very unpalatable home truths.

If you are a left wing political person, best you put your vote now to the Green Party, although you’ll have to do that all the while the Greens frantically tell you they aren’t a left wing party.

You’ll have to do that because the political left is dead in Labour. The right wing of the Labour Party have poisoned the chalice and it’s time for Cunliffe to stand down and allow them to appoint the new ‘centrist’ team to take over. It’s not a case of ‘can Cunliffe win the membership and affiliate vote’ – he certainly could. The fury many members and affiliates feel watching the Caucus sit on their hands and openly defy Cunliffe is being vented everywhere, but the reality is, even if Cunliffe won, the ‘centrist’ Caucus would still refuse to play ball. That means Key wins again in 2017.

I asked yesterday, is Labour a modern democratic political party whose members and affiliates have an active say in the shape and direction of the Party, or are they merely a political management team who work to not spook the corporate forces of capitalism when National get tired of Government?

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Turns out they are the latter.

We have to accept that the mainstream media won’t allow a Labour leader who is going to actually change things to ever get anywhere near power, so we have to give them a leader they can at least tolerate.

I’ve always referred to NZers as sleepy hobbits. After the result on Saturday, that’s charitable. We are a passionless people frightened of eclipses. Pundits claiming Kim Dotcom was big money impacting the election obviously didn’t see the wall to wall National Party advertising on stuff.co.nz and NZ Herald the week before the election.

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THAT’S big money in politics. That Kim Doctom radicalised people into rushing out and voting National when it was Kim who was entrapped, beaten up, all property seized and illegally spied on for America is proof positive how easy it is to spook a NZer with their own shadow.

So let’s give the sleepy hobbits what they want, uncomplicated boiled meat and 3 vege politics led by Cameron Slater’s mate, Stuart Nash as leader and Grant Robertson as deputy. Grant will be there to reassure the PSA and EPMU that they don’t need to do much and Stuart to reconnect with the ‘average’ NZer in a way that never threatens the mainstream media’s corporate masters or our neoliberal overlords. Put Goff in as shadow trade minister so America knows its TPPA will get signed, Shearer in as Foreign Affairs so America knows it can get whatever it wants  and Jacinda Ardern somewhere on the front bench so it can pretend to be liberal and gender balanced.

The 5 horse people of the mediocrity.

Stuart Nash has all the ambition of a piranha in a feeding frenzy and this should be his top 6 start list for becoming leader of NZ.

1 – Start referring to himself immediately as ‘The Nashy’

2 – Speargun a large fish over Summer, preferably an endangered Tuna so that he can start having a fight with the Greens. Hunting something with a social media photo of him standing over whatever he has killed would also suffice.

3 – Kick a ball around with some All Blacks.

4 – Pick more fights with the Greens over climate change and oil drilling.

5 – Dump all that complicated girl stuff like gender equality, rape culture, maternity leave, and social justice as that complicated girl stuff makes the blokes down at the sports bar choke on their mince pies. 

6 – Bash the bennies and make Cameron Slater’s other mate inside Caucus, Kelvin Davis, make some derogatory remarks about Maori and violence all under the guise of ‘manning up’  and confronting domestic abuse.

Those 6 will probably be enough to win a landslide.


So where does that leave those NZers who are passionately left wing? Do we give up? Certainly not, we just accept that the Labour Party won’t be the vehicle for that social change. Where will the pressure come from to force that social change onto the political spectrum? I’m sure some people are working on that question right now.



  1. Isn’t there a way for the membership to purge the old right guard from the party? If there isn’t, the party needs democratising reforms to its constitution to enable this. We need to clean these ACToids out to have a hope of restoring the party. That may mean losing the next election, but it’s better than having no hope for a left wing government for another 15-18 years.

  2. Yes, Martyn as usual you can offer up extremely though provoking possibilities.

    I will have to have some days to let that scenario sink in or the possibility of it anyway.

    We do need a grass route politician now to shine forth from afar from our mega-City as us “Provies” are simply tired beyond words hearing all the wants and needs of Mega-City and need to focus instead on the export producing provinces instead.

    To illustrate this as strongly as I can, there is an urgent need for moving away from the NatZ centrist Government policies of total control of the provinces.

    This needs to move to a more local Government controlled environment where those local Governments do know best what is required to elevate their productivity rather than technocrats in Wellington or Auckland do.

    That is the negative issue Stuart Nash is currently fighting for us in H.B and Gisborne.

    Regional autonomy is required in N.Z’s heartland now urgently, and this point is severely lost on anyone living in Mega-City or outside the regions.

    As in a slumping H.B. Gisborne region this is also being played out with other provincial regions Labour MP’s are struggling to help in their flagging regions under the weight of centrist NatZ policies.

    David Cunliffe grasped this point clearly as did Winston as two who shone amongst the electorates there, sadly David Cunliffe never got the message out clearly enough.

    Or that the Mega- City folk didn’t realise how important to them and the health of their NZ economy provincial regional support was to their pockets when they went to the ballot box.

  3. Thing is with “Nashy”, if Garth McVicar doesn’t stand again in 2017, the National candidate will take Napier back.

    If Stuart Nash doesn’t get this, he’s not terribly bright.

  4. If the media refuse to allow a leftwing labour party they will refuse to allow any other leftwing party. As long as we have this overtly right-wing media stiffling real debate and their dismissive opinions dominating the political landscape, we will never again see a truly leftwing government. This is the sad truth.

  5. The trouble is, a coalition between Labour and the Greens will always be needed to form an alternative government and if Labour becomes too much like National, such a coalition would be impossible.

    Perhaps the key focuses for the next three years need to be:

    Developing an alternative media

    Developing stronger organisational and personal relationships between all those on the left including Labour activists, Greens, Unions, IMP supporters, environmentalist organisations and so on.

    • Fambo,

      This TDB/TS blog alliance should be getting to the heart of Labour failures which is that the MSM poisoned effectively the electorate at every turn.

      No left candidate or replacement candidate has ever survived under this MSM hacking machine, and when Frank attacks Nash he is adding to the fire.

      We need to get consensus between all opposition parties now.

      This is our call for a meeting of their minds in an extraordinary move using a forum between all those political parties now out in the political wilderness to form a MSM forum debate strategy process to spearhead a new alternative TV/Radio network to counter the poisonous MSM and stop the slaughter NOW PLEASE.

      Looking back at Kim.com putting $2 million into a political party was a gamble and perhaps he may wish now to contribute to the setting up of yet another MSM free opposition media network TV/Radio medium to counter that poison that is so destroying the democracy he and us all love to see saved at this late hour.

      • Yes to the last paragraph. But favour KDC giving a lot of money to the CBB rather starting it himself, and throwing his tech expertise into keeping it safe from hacking, distortion, and interference. We need a truly independent free-to-air, FREE news media.

      • @ Cleangreen…totally agree…

        “Looking back at Kim.com putting $2 million into a political party was a gamble and perhaps he may wish now to contribute to the setting up of yet another MSM free opposition media network TV/Radio medium to counter that poison that is so destroying the democracy he and us all love to see saved at this late hour”

      • I would like to see Kim Dotcom put his money in a truly unbiased free-to-air TV and Radio as proposed by the CBB. Then step back and let them work independent of him, except perhaps for him overseeing the IT security of their sites.

  6. In the meantime, Martyn, you are right about the Greens. They are the de facto party of the left.

    I’ll be starting an automatic payment today to add to their 2017 election “war chest”.

      • Oh another “clever” right winger. Not.Did it take you very long to think up that “witty” response James?? It must’ve taken you hours. Now go have a lie-down. You’ve obviousely over-taxed yourself.

        Frank – I’m with you. The Green Party is now my preferred party of choice. Labour is an embarrassment.

      • You poor fellow James – still, keep at it, you may get somewhere in spite of your disability. Think of Forrest Gump.

        • Awww…don’t go too hard on him….being a one party state Communist means it just gets a little difficult to multi task and think outside the square for them at times , that’s all….

    • Yes, surely more people of the left will finally “get” Green. We Greens have been providing the true leadership of progressive politics in NZ for years, but have fallen into the trap of regarding Labour as our necessary partner in coalition terms. We need to cut them loose until they sort out their own shit – if they ever can. In the meantime we must continue to strive for the Green future this country desperately needs.

  7. The reason the political left is dead is simple: the electorate don’t want the failed policies of hard socialism. More and more people accept that the best way to get ahead is under your own steam, with help as a very last resort (but help is there).
    Not only that, but understand this. Most of the ‘rich’ get so not by denying the poor, but by adding more value to society. When anyone adds value to society, the net result is a PLUS, not a minus, and they often get $$ for their efforts. Don’t believe me? Take a hard look at your iPhone, provided by an ‘evil corporation’ (the biggest in the world). Doesn’t seem so evil when its products you absolutely cannot live without.

    • Deejay, these are just bullshit myths and straw men spun on ZB for Christ’s sake – please point to one political party who was pushing hard socialism – please – chapter and verse, their policy. Please point to just one policy from one party that was hard socialism?

      • Do we really need to remind you that Cunliffe ascended to the Labour leadership on the back of the unions and a stated push to the left? More taxes and more welfare? Remember? And the electorate resoundingly rejected it. You might like to write off the electorate as ‘sleepy hobbits’ because it went with what you deem an unpopular choice, but even Cunliffe agrees that the electorate is always right. If we want to talk about what New Zealanders want, well, the tribe has spoken. Labour and you can continue to advance a lefty agenda and that is your prerogative, but if the electorate doesn’t want it, you’re not going to get anywhere. And refer to the above…the electorate is always right – literally and, in the wake of this election, figuratively too.

        • Right, so you actually have no evidence whatsoever of actual policy that was, to use your words, ‘hard socialism’. All you have, is that the Unions and the left activists supported Cunliffe? That’s, honestly all you have? ZB rhetoric? So what if the Unions and the left backed Cunliffe, that is in no way shape or form proof of them being ‘hard socialism’ Deejay. The electorate were radicalised against Kim Dotcom in the same way the repeal of section 59 radicalised people. They were spooked by the msm and as Hager pointed out, 6 years of dirty politics helping to create those spin lines couldn’t be overcome from a few brief moments of truth.

          That’s why National won, not because Labour were in any way socialist for God’s sakes. Do you actually know what the term socialist means? I’m gonna take a punt here DeeJay, do you think Obama care is socialism?

          • Keep an eye on MANA martin. It’s holding up better than I expected, even signing new members.


            “hard socialist, commie”

        • Martyn asked you to provide evidence of “hard socialism” by Labour. You failed to do so. Ranting about Unions is not policy, it is deflection.

          Really, you can’t think of any can you? In fact you can’t think of anything that isn’t parrotted bullshit from Kiwiblog or Failoil.

          Epic fail, Deejay.

      • Martyn,

        DEEJAY shows how deejays on MSM & talkback radio how permeated our thinking of acting out nasty politics, and encouraged to be an as usual state of just fair game.

        The MSM is waging a war against us in NZ as found elsewhere and should be investigated by a royal commission.

        They did stuff in Britain over the “news of the world” issue and wont stop until forced to behave as responsible media for all viewpoints not just their own trumpeting.

    • the electorate don’t want the failed policies of hard socialism

      They why the FUCKY FUCK did they vote for John Key?

      Key’s policies – almost all carried over from Clark, or otherwise further left than Clark – aren’t just “hard socialism” — even Kathryn Ryan called them communism.

      • I love the VRW nut jobs, they are so far out their they don’t, nor can they understand left wing economics.

        I like the silly meme national are communist – it just shows how bat shit crazy the right wing are.

        When the shit hit’s the fan Angry, just remember these immortal words. How’s that self reliance working out for you now?

        • I can understand his confusion though – the Key government is so incompetent it hurts. How could anyone support that?

    • FFS dumbjay. Biggest corporation in the world??? Wrong! Apple aren’t as big as Microsoft who aren’t as big as Samsung who aren’t as big as Nestle, who aren’t as big Pfizer who aren’t as big as Exxon I could go on but who cares you’re thick.
      Don’t lecture the left about adding value. Educated people add value( invest in free education ) then everyone benefits, healthy people add value( then they’re fit enough to work long hours for years) so invest in the health system so it’s free to use. GST off food means people can eat well for less. That’s called preventative health. Ia m well off because I had a free education. My children are healthy because they were fed well they are well off because I worked in Aussie for years and could pay for their education. I have retired early because I have Aussie super. I have a choice. My children earn enough to access health care but can’t afford to buy their own homes without my help.
      Does ANY of this paint a picture for you?????
      You are a moron if you think the economically illiterate, amoral neo liberal fuckwits who have rorted this country for over 30 years have any agenda apart from enriching themselves.

      • And creating a single party state . UNIQUE as it combines all the lovely qualities of either Fascist or Communist Utopias….they must be so glad at what they managed to achieve.

    • Please show me where the rich have added value to society! Oh you mean material value. More rubbish to pollute the planet and DEPRIVE the poor. I know at least one person who is getting richer in his own business in Christchurch contracting labour only. You can bet that the labourers are not the ones getting rich. This person now owns 5 rental properties in Christchurch( mostly acquired in the last 4 yrs) A city that is desperately short of housing for lower income people. So yeah let’s fill up the Warehouse and other cheap shops with more rubbish from China so the poor are not deprived.

  8. The real fight is how to get the message across with most of the news media owned by wealthy offshore investors. Set up a ‘newspaper’ on social media like Facebook and serious articles in it. We desperately need more of the heart and belly of the MICHAEL JOSEPH SAVAGE type, and more great orators like Kirk and Langey.

    • I agree! there are so many different Facebook pages such as John Key Must go/wake up Nz/John key has let nz down then etc and The Daily Blog and the standard (who also censor as they took down two comments of mine instantly that we’re not rants but my disappointment in the way Labour stitched up it’s potential partners of Internet Mana) etc
      most of these sites attract political junkies and more traffic around election time and the little group of Nat supporters who make unintelligent and mainly abusive childish postings!

      It seems to be a little counter productive to have many different sites and would be good to have a site/page/you tube channel which may have contributors that write/share their blogs/posts from those other pages that becomes known as the place to go for an opposing view to the mainstream media.

      It’s no real surprise that since the demise of Paul Holmes slot to 7 sharp and nightline to Paul Henry that the cultural psyche of Nz’ers has been subtly influenced and I think that reflects in the election result and the comments that average Nz’ers make on social issues!

      Unfortunately though the 6 o’clock news and radio live et al are the most easily accessible to most people and they have a bias that isn’t apparent to many, and the apolitical 700k non voters would more likely tune in to X factor and Facebook gossip than any news alternative so little would probably change!

    • You may be right, Dorothy. Today’s editorial and column by Rosemary McLeod in the Dominion Post could have been written by the Nats media-spinners. Who knows, maybe McLeod is Jason Ede in heels and lipstick?

      • rosemary mcleod just going the way of all msm, they are all chanting the party line – if they dont they will be out of a job. no surprises there….same with all of them really…how many left wing journos are left with a paying job in the msm?

    • Exactly Dorothy, I have already mentioned on this blog site the SN &R. Actually, Sacramento News and Review. It has a website also. This is a free weekly newspaper which gives some very interesting views on relevant issues in America. The latest issue has a story about an investigative journalist Gary Webb who in 2004 joined the staff of SN &R after being betrayed by the Newspaper he worked previously. He committed suicide, but then that was probably never fully investigated. Anyway the movie “Kill the messenger” will be out soon. NZ really needs a newspaper like this.

  9. Voting Green is the go, Red has stopped its own traffic sadly.Blue will see an elite 1% living in fear behind walls with the 99% baying for blood as the myth of the middle class collapses. The center road is blocked and is in gridlock. A lifetime labour voter I switched to voting green as I became more informed outside of the main stream media about the sham that is bankrupting the gifts of our planet and mesmerising the middle class. What vital conduit to this crazy headlong rush to destruction is not about to suffer an emolisim-energy, water, air quality, food,, a shift in the planetary weather patterns,invented debt, and the corrupt monetary system in the hands of corporate rule of law (TPPA).
    Only a serious and determined Green shift will help to address the remnants of a global collapsing ecological and social disaster.Sustainable infrostructure has a narrow window in which to impliment off the back of current supply lines and post peak oil. The 99% rising against the greed of the 1% will be a nasty rear guard action that will collapse all of the 1st world leaving little to salvage for future generations.
    You are being fleeced sheeple, Turn away from the old model it is terminally ill. Thinking beyond a 3 year term and try to leave something for your childrens future.Vote Green.

  10. If you are a left wing political person, best you put your vote now to the Green Party

    Ahh Martin – since when has leftism really progressed via the ballot box?

    Take your nickname seriously if you want to move NZ left.

    • Oh shush – you have your single party state… you should be happy. What more do you want ?

      But I guess the hard thing now is what to call it….Watcha’ think ….Fascist with a capitol ‘ F’ ….or Communist with a capitol ‘ C’ ?

      Enjoy your Brutopia while you can .

  11. I don’t know the personalities but all seem decent people. Problem is the public smell dissention – and so did the Nats – just look at their boating advt. Sorry, and sadly, that is not the problem – problem is too many NZers are not thinkers. RNZ morning report illustrated that voters went for the charisma of JK. How many questioned the rise in debt from 10 to 60 billion even after selling assets. Sure a third was due to the earth quake. But that also was the reason behind Nat’s owning the GPD growth – how many know the flaws of GDP as a measurement of wellbeing – all we need now is for another earthquake and watch the GDP rise !!!!

    • The rise in debt is not really the problem. Given the tough economic times that have visited this country – along with the rest of the world – the government did right to increase expenditure. That’s what governments should do when times are bad. They can always recoup at least some of those losses in the good times.

      I can even make a case for tax cuts in such a situation. But the problem there is that the benefits of across-the-board tax cuts is that the effects are too trivial at the bottom end of taxable incomes (where most people earn), and consequently at the top end, there is little incentive to invest the windfall into anything new and productive.

      Tax cuts are also untargeted towards what led to the crash, and will lead to another in the next couple of years or so, to wit: private debt. Bear in mind that the debt position of New Zealand by and large remained unchanged in magnitude from 1984 to 2008. But the proportions of public and private debt changed dramatically, with the vast bulk of it privately owed by the end of that period.

      Even worse, this government gave the bulk of the cuts to the top end of the income spectrum, which negated what little benefit it might have been to lower incomes, and left the top end with even more money they didn’t know what to do with. The whole exercise did almost nothing to achieve what ought to have been the aim: to boost the velocity of money, and hence the health of the nation as an economically viable entity.

      The Christchurch earthquakes did more to affect money velocity than any actual policy, but even that has been handled (evidence suggests) in an entirely ham fisted manner. The six-fold increase in th public debt I have no quarrel with. Where it becomes problematic is in the use to which that money was put. If it went to finance tax cuts, that’s simply stupid. If it went towards the Christchurch rebuild, that makes sense (provided it was used with brain).

    • Yep there is a lack of intellect out there but it was really the result of the monopoly media that mean’t they just heard how JK was doing an AMAZING job of the economy (I heard that time and time again) and no one bothered to say how about the mountains of debt. Also the Greens & Labour don’t seem to be able to use new media either to counter discourse. They rely on the herald and TV 1&3 – not a good idea and are too incompetent to sort something else out. But really TMOT was like a massive present to them but what did they do undermine the message and help JK – they are hopeless so don’t blame every kiwi ‘s stupidity for that.

  12. The future of Labour as I see will be a move towards the supposed centre & even though i think it would be wiser to stick with Cunliffe as many lessons are learned through going through an election campaign even in spite of a loss.
    To me it takes time for voters to trust a leader and by ganging up on Cunliffe as soon as the election was over shows the party to be wanting power at all costs and would have been wiser to show some loyalty and stick to their guns regarding policy and wait for the shine to wear off Key!
    Most Nat voters are very politically naive and fall for personality politics despite the truth of the facade being exposed! Personally I feel there is a kind of ADD amongst the voting public and they would rather believe what they are told than research or investigate themselves and that is why Natz keep winning!

    If Labour decide to move more centre and change leaders again then the only true left will be Internet Mana and personally I believe a lot of their policies would be good for the economy and future of New Zealand! although I’m not sure the partnership will survive until the next election! Depends on whether Laila wants to give it another go and if Hone has the stomach for another go after a 3 year absence. The Natz knew that Internet Mana would have grown their support if in Parliament and that is why they had to destroy them!

    A lot of those generation that vote for National forget that they received the luxury of free tertiary education and all those that have gentrified areas of Auckland, forget that those solid old state houses they renovate we’re once the result of a Labour initiative!

  13. It has become clear to me that the visible political spectrum has become extremely narrow, and that at the blue (right wing) end. I accept the greens are not at the red (left wing) end, but precisely where their name suggests: right in the middle somewhere: green. And that’s nearer blue than red at that. So I believe them when they say they are not a left wing party.

    But absent any political party of the ruddier hues, the Green Party is going to look left-wing, as that seems to be where it is standing: at the left-hand end of a very short line.

    I have already stated, quite flatly, that the current Labour Party has taken over the role of the erstwhile Social Credit lot: the ‘poor man’s’ National Party. I predicted that Davis Cunliffe won’t survive this year (even if he wants to, given that the support he got from his caucus must have felt like a bed of nails), and it looks very like he’ll leave much sooner.

    But you watch what will happen when Cunliffe does go. The Labour Party’s abandonment of their working class and professional constituency will leave it without a grassroots support. The Party will haemorrhage paying membership; its long-suffering voters will do as I have done by and large from the early 1990s, wash their hands of the whole sorry crew; and the opinion polls will continue their slide into the oblivion of a minor Party. Requiescat in Tartarus the Labour Party.

    I’m not sure what will happen to the Unions’ support. I have long held – even from the late 1980s – that Unions and Service Organizations both pretty much gave up any real fight for their members. I have occasionally wondered where their thirty pieces of silver came from. I suspect it came simply from the coin still being dropped by their hopeful members into their outstretched hands. So easily and cheaply were they bought off.

    “We’re trying to preserve jobs,” they bleated, trading off pay and conditions hard-won over decades. And they didn’t even achieve that pitifully modest aim. Yet, boy, did they continue to demand, and collect, their subscriptions! But it came as no real surprise. Even well before 1984 I was saying to anyone who would listen that Unions’ executive bodies (I’m not speaking of the delegates, mark you) were become just another management, with all that implied.

    Look, I’m not anti-Union in principle – quite the contrary. But their worth is measured only in the value they give to their members. Since 1984 that has, by and large, been pretty damned skinny.

    So I reckon the Unions may well stick with supporting Labour for a bit of a while yet. Much good may it do them.

    • It continued to seem like a left wing party for about half its first term. But I knew some Labour Party members who even back in the late ’70s were telling me that they we seriously concerned about Roger Douglas’s economic notions (Chicago School, Milton Friedmanite, Neo-Classical economics as I have discovered far, far too late). Damn.

  14. Question 1: Do the Greens actually want us? I can’t tell.
    Question 2: Would David Cunliffe like to join Mana? His heart is in the right place (or, I mean, left place)

  15. There is a balance – ‘old labour’ used to have it. The left do need to stop bashing the rich as they are not the enemy and the also most NZer’s do want to see people off benefits, and if they are on one, actually justifying it ( i.e. unemployed looking for a job, DPB – raising children and doing a decent job of it, sickness benefits not because of obesity etc). Yes I know it sounds hard but that is the reality of getting 50% of the votes here. Also although I agree with the article I do not think the left should just throw in the towel and give up on Labour and I think if more people blogged support for Cunliffe then he might stay on. Yep Labour is a complete shambles but they still have a brand and the 2nd biggest vote base and surely there must be some decency still in there? It’s policy and messaging and a lack of integrity that is letting them down. Would love to see KDC or anyone else put a bit of money into helping a Guardian type newspaper – ha ha Herald – I hear most investigative journalists or journo’s with a brain are unemployed now so hopefully lots of talent out there

    • I think actual newspapers are/ will become a thing of the past, sadly! That is why it is easier to start online forum/site and much cheaper! Also I would just like to advocate on behalf on beneficiaries! I don’t think the “left wing” encourages beneficiaries as they are often portrayed. I think they just have more understanding about the whole raft of reasons why some people fall down in society and it’s much more complicated than “they are losers” “they brought it on themselves” ” should have done better at school/not had children if they couldn’t afford them” etc
      I can say from my own experience working in mental health that there are a LOT of people out there with pretty serious health issues, mental and physical to cope with and would struggle to get regular work even in a booming economy, many have real problems finding places to live in such a high rental market.
      If voting/supporting labour is seen as encouraging those bludgers that just LOVE being on welfare is why Labour don’t win elections then the alternative is heading down survival of the fittest route and we all know where that leads!
      Ps I think it’s the country that is in complete shambles and the current media narrative about the Labour Party leadership is turning half the caucus into fkwits!

      • Agree – I hear “beneficiaries are blah, blah, blah” and when you point out “Isn’t your daugher/ grandson, our mutual friend ___ on a benefit?” there’s that “Well, they are but they’re not like those other ones.” The only person I’ve really seen ‘slacking round bludging’ as the call goes – is the one living off her husband’s rather large salary. And p.s. good on her!

      • I believe in the welfare state, but the reality to win an election, is you actually need to have a vision and an inspiration. You will never be considered mainstream if your vision is to help beneficiaries stay on a benefit. That is because it is not an aspirational position. One thing that is not being said is that JK has gotten where he is by using beneficiaries as a way to get more votes by ‘helping’ them off benefits as a type of social justice. That is half right no one wants to survive on a benefit, the difference between Right and Left should be the same message but with more real and practical help from the left. Ie we will help the mentally ill, we will target health initiatives to help disability, we will not get rid of ACC, we will give extra money to help people get to work, we will have public transport so people can actually get to a job, we will give people more job security, etc That should have been vote positive, instead it was we will raise income taxes, we will put a CGT on property etc. And then we will give your taxes to beneficiaries. Lost them a lot of votes. Even the Greens failed with messaging their core economic policies of lowering company tax etc.

        The socially Just need to actually start mobilizing and do 2 things, get the message out there of their policies that are not related to raising taxes and also rush around interviewing the whistleblowers out there and actually give them some political protection. And Labour and the Greens should be out there right now doing it.

        Otherwise it is 4 terms for our saint JK. Notice JK is trying to get on Winstons good side as no one wants him looking into the Slater scandal around I’m sure.

        Also another scandal, hope you are aware that the chairman of Oravida apparently bought Hotchin’s 30mill mansion but for only about 9 million… bargain apart from for Hanover Finance Mum and Dad investors. HMMM hope Nicky Hager has looked into that relationship. Soundbyte it and then post it around.

        ….Seriously with Pike River, Finance scandals, KDC surveillance, CHCH earthquake -they had so much ammunition, but did we hear any of that messaged from Greens or Labour – nope like robots, Absolutely no clue at all. Wouldn’t put it past the right to actually have sabotaged their campaign by infiltrating Labour and the Greens marketing and strategy.

    • I think it is high time the rich stop bashing the poor, though.

      If you want to know something about rich and poor bashing, economic jealousy, and where they lead allow me to commend to you the story of Naboth’s Vineyard. Google it.

      Have you ever noticed by the way, that whenever the state ordains some benefit for the poor, the rich are surging round with their hands out for the same, and more? It was ever thus.

      All this is not ‘bashing the rich.’ It’s telling it as it is.

  16. If Stuart Nash became leader of the Labour Party I would LEAVE,
    as his actions have shown him to be disloyal and incompetent. He won in Napier because of the slitting of the vote.

  17. Mainstream media who in my opinion, won the election for national, are trying to dictate over the Labour party and have stepped up their attack against David Cunliffe, and thats even more reason for Cunliffe to remain as Labour party leader. Despite Labour losing the election, national and the media obviously still see Cunliffe as a threat, and are using this as an opportunity to get rid of him.
    If I was labour I would completely ignore everything the right wingers are saying and do the opposite, and that includes the questionable advice from the so called “left” pretenders as well.

    • No, David Cunliffe should leave and save himself a lot of grief. I don’t know much about the guy, but the fact he’s not a neo-con plonker is a solid plus in my book. Perhaps he could found or join some other left wing political movement. At any rate, Labour is a sinking ship, and he doesn’t deserve to go down with it. The neo-con rats will vanish when their feet start getting wet, don’t you worry about that!

  18. So Martyn, mainstream media have won, we should all give up the fight. Why bother voting then, you have just put up an argument that its unwinnable and nothing matters anymore, so why bother.

  19. “NZers sleepy hobbits”; I’ve been giving a lot of thought as to how so many people can be so stupid. I think the answer is chemtrails. The government has been progressively spraying and poisoning the population with a substance intended to make it more subservient.

  20. “I’ve always referred to NZers as sleepy hobbits. After the result on Saturday, that’s charitable”

    Ah, the people. How thoughtlessly they irritate their wise betters.

  21. Where can i find out who is in the labour caucus now? Also other than Goff, Mallard, Hipkins who else is part of the ABC lot?

  22. I think the election result reflects the low standard of education and political awareness generally of much of this country. They all wanted to answer the call of National and be part of Team Key. They wanted to belong to the ‘best party’ and hoped that Key’s millionaire status might somehow turn NZ’s fortunes around, and with it their own…and so they voted for the rich guy, hoping to join him and his rich mates, hoping that his good fortune might rub off on them one day. I mean, after all, that is the dream that Key sells isn’t it? The state house boy with the widowed mother, who worked hard and became a self made man. The Key mantra, ‘a party vote for National provides stable government’, was repeated ad nauseam all over the media and that word repeated endlessly, finally sunk in by 20th Sept. Everyone wants stability – no one wants instability for gods sake! Why would you vote for that? Its a no brainer, though the voters, and off they trotted down to the polling booth and ticked the National box… done like a dogs dinner. All over rover. Sad but true. NZ in the main, is a bunch of suckers who can’t think for themselves in the presence of such greatness as millionaire Key ( or is he a billionaire by now? Wouldnt surprise me actually).

  23. After nine years of Clark et al who would vote for Labour anyway. You guys just don’t get it. NZ is sick of Labours moaning and back stabbing. They just can’t work as a team. Who would let a party govern that has that clown from Rangitata and the other clown from Selwyn as candidates. You want to be seen as a credible alternate and you put those morons up. Really? If that’s the best you can do give up now and let NZ First or the Greens be the main opposition party. If Labour wants to run the country they need to have a clean out and attract some new talent. I never thought I would say this but go the Nats.

    • Get rid of the neo liberal ideology and replace it with Keynesianism and youd see a difference .

      Youd also see some very scared neo liberal ABC rats scuttling away as fast as their little ratty legs could carry them under the nearest pile of effluent to make their new homes. Their experts in effluence…and an orderly ,clean house they just cannot abide….

      Now …back to my original question….if the Vikings immigrated here….would they need to have work visa’s ?

      Watcha think?

  24. Well put, Martyn. My polyanna thinking would have Mr. Cunliffe step right out of his moribund party, though some of his comments in interviews after the election give me grave doubts as to where his heart really lies. His blame meme sounds right out of the right wing playbook, and I much fear if he had won the election it would have been another case of ‘fool me once’ which agony the US went through with Barack Obama, and I’d hate to see New Zealand suffer through that. Better the enemy you know…

    As to ‘why did they vote for Key?’ – the important ‘they’ (or at least half of them) used their non vote to make a strong statement of ‘none of the above.’ And why not the Greens, then? Well, I had a dear friend about whom I would say butter would not melt in her mouth – she was darling but so sweet one could only take her in very minute amounts before rushing from the room for a breath of fresh air.

    Forgive me, Greens (I’m registered as one myself in the US) but the Mana/Internet party had what you have not: verve, excitement, dedication to reversing the harsh realities under which more and more kiwis truly LABOUR. And the Greens do a great disservice to those citizens as well as to the ignorant ones by refusing to acknowledge what the Mana/Internet party brings to the table.

    There’s your opposition, if you truly want to win next time. It’s all split up right now, but it has the makings, which is more than I can say for politics in the US where I live.

  25. Except that Nash has publicly said he is not seeking the leadership.

    Martyn your article is a succession of self-loathing left-wing memes employed when things don’t go our way.

    Please take some time off, like you said you would, and engage your rational, dispassionate mind upon your return. You are unsettling good potential activists into pointless self-destructive behaviour.

    Yes, mischievous right-wing clowns in the Labour Party need to be expunged. It needs people other than the Paganists speaking for it in the media. But your analysis is emotive and reactionary, and you haven’t thought this diatribe through.

    Labour still overwhelmingly represents the poor, people of South Auckland and West Auckland, Maori and Pasifika. Whether you think it has the right to (or the behaviour of Parliamentary NZLP is worthy of it), we don’t get anywhere by fracturing into stupid little cliques, just more scorn from the general electorate, who hate this shit.

    Take some time off.

  26. I can just imagine the uproar from Slater & the rest of the right wings trolls will come out with should Robertson become leader of the labour party, given Robertson’s sexual preferences.

  27. Look, I’m trying to understand. You present Cunliffe as someone who was going to ‘change’ things. How? I mean, how, in any way that would have been different from any of the others? Was he going to rewrite the policies after the election? Did either the “left – ” or “right – wing” of the party not agree with those policies? Precisely what is it that makes him left wing and the others right wing in any serious practical way?

  28. Um no. Definitely not. Just no! What were you thinking when you wrote this Bomber?
    Those two in charge of Labour would drive me to drink!

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