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  1. The whole event was bizarre. Those supposedly lost in the caves numbered 13. Such a favourite number to those who delve. No one answered why so many had gone so far without torches, ropes, food, hiking shoes, etc., indeed so little preparation. The rescue preparation/operation was flamboyant to say the least. So who’s right?

    1. Helena – On the contrary, the rescue effort was meticulously planned and executed, and in itself, not without danger. You’ve missed the whole point.

      The outcome exceeded the hopes and expectations of the rescuers themselves. I think the National Geographic did a feature on it.

      There is nothing, nothing flamboyant about those who take part in search and rescue operations. They are highly skilled – and sometimes they themselves get killed. They deserve our respect, and our thanks, and not being demeaned by Musk, nor trivialised by you.

      This is indeed a tragedy for Unsworth – I recall his submarine comment – and I think Musk’s reaction petulant spoilt brat territory. Anything else I could say of Musk is better left unsaid. Your reaction, Helena, is part of Mr Unsworth’s tragedy.

  2. Totally fair and predictable outcome, Unsworth’s reputation was not damaged by the tweets because his efforts in the rescue operation were rewarded with an MBE, a medal from the Thai king, and other honors. So clearly it was never believed he was a pedo. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/06/elon-musk-vernon-unsworth-trial-verdict

    In addition Unsworth started the insults by saying Musk should “stick his submarine where it hurts” and started the insults in the first place.

    Many people are tired of the law being used to settle stupid disputes, people using the legal system over being offended especially when they start the insults.

    NZ should be looking to reform our defamation laws so that people can’t constantly use defamation in NZ to curb freedom of speech aka Andrew little vs Hagaman, Sir Bob Jones files vs Renae Maihi and Colin Craig vs Jordan Williams.

    Instead the NZ defamation law should move to the US system where damages actually have to be proved so that people can’t sue each other over mere insults or to scare others, curb freedom of speech and tie up the courts.

    Damages should have to be just that, real damage for things that are said, that are not true, not insults said in jest and not believable or for just having an opinion aka petition to strip knighthood off Bob Jones.

    If Unsworth had suffered real damages aka people actually believed him to be a peodophile then he should have been awarded damages. But clearly nobody thought that, and he was considered a hero for saving the boys.

    Sounds like he was also let down by his lawyers who pushed him to sue based on subjective emotion and greed, not the facts that nobody take tweets seriously or as facts! (apart from the woke!).

    Good on both Musk and Unsworth for trying ideas to save the boys.

    Remember that one of the biggest hero was actually Petty Officer Saman Gunan who paid the ultimate sacrifice and died helping rescue the boys. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44734385

    Sadly he does not seem to get the recognition he deserves for his role in the rescue.

  3. Blazing saddles could never be made again because a small but litigations members of society, don’t understand irony, sarcasm and satire or heat of the moment exchanges.

    For the woke who have no sense of the above, don’t read the Man booker prize winner, The Sellout. Far too many triggers!

    Weirdly in NZ, dirty politics which is planned, executed over time and for private gain, seems to be completely acceptable!

    Go figure.

  4. Helena – in what way was the rescue preparation/operation flamboyant? Your comment does not make sense. I agree with Snow White. I followed this rescue as best I could through the media (print and television) at the time and from what I read and saw it was meticulously planned and brilliantly executed.

    As I understand it the boys who went into the cave system did not anticipate the sudden change in conditions (sudden increase in water levels from torrential rain-fall) preventing their exit from the cave system. Actually, the rising water levels meant they had to go further into the cave system. The point is that those who planned the rescue operation did a superb job, which gets me to my second question – what do you mean “who’s right”? Who’s right about what? You seem to be suggesting that Musk was justified in making his defamatory comment about Unsworth. He was called in by the authorities because he was an expert caver. His job was to give advice but the rescue itself was carried out by the elite Thai Navy Seals.

    I totally align with Snow White’s comments. Musk’s idea of using a mini-submarine was ridiculous. If you had watched the television reports at the time some of which showed the water system in the caves and how it worked it would have been obvious to you that a mini-submarine would not have worked and this is what Unsworth quite rightly pointed out. To be called a “pedo” for pointing out the obvious was appalling – but then again what does that say about Musk?

  5. You can it seems claim someone has Russian ties or similar without evidence in the US and get away with that too…

    That said its a shame a good man Unsworth has had to go through this……..

  6. It will be interesting to follow up on any change of fortune for the jurors in a year or so. It’s a great cave home of a big white rabbit which adds another angle for me. The movie is out.

  7. “…on the provisio that it was an “insult”, instead of an “accusation”, and apparently somewhat regardless of how just about anybody else might have potentially taken the remark (either as indicating something about Unsworth, or as indicating something about what Musk *believed he knew* about Unsworth) … it’s protected speech, and that’s that.”

    I asked a household member – who has some knowledge of this area – about this case. Under US law, defamation isn’t protected speech, unless it’s made about a public figure. Which Unsworth most emphatically isn’t.

    To wit:
    “Public figures claiming to have been defamed must show that the alleged defamer knew the defamatory statement to be untrue or was recklessly indifferent to the truth.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times_Co._v._Sullivan

    “Specifically, it held that if a plaintiff in a defamation lawsuit is a public official or person running for public office, not only must he or she prove the normal elements of defamation—publication of a false defamatory statement to a third party—he or she must also prove that the statement was made with “actual malice”, meaning that the defendant either knew the statement was false or recklessly disregarded whether or not it was true.[3][4]”

    Knowledgeable household member has opined that the jury worshipped Musk and let him off the hook out of adoration.

    God knows I’d rather not be posting a link to the Guardian, of all dreadful little rags, but here it is. The jury actually found that Musk did not defame Unsworth, that Unsworth’s lawyers had not proved their case; not that what Musk said was protected speech:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/06/elon-musk-vernon-unsworth-trial-verdict

    In my view, Musk is an odious little man, and the jury was wrong. But my opinion matters not a jot….

  8. I tried reply to a comment, but upon refreshing that comment I was replying to disappeared. Oh well. I’ll leave my own. Wanted to say, Musk released emails way back when where his complete efforts were cautiously offered to a contingency planner who welcomed his efforts and coordinated with him. He didn’t want to be thought of or seen as interfering only helping if and where and how he could. So clearly when the dude said yes, and someone else later disparaged him, perhaps from ego and just echoing the way the media covered him as butting in, and competitiveness as if it was a race. He was supposed to be offering a backup plan, not a primary plan. The other dude was running a primary plan. Perhaps the other dude didn’t like the thought that anybody needed to make a backup plan because that presumes there is a risk of his failing. Where peoples lives are involved nice to have plan b(s) just incase. I think his disparagement of musk caught musk offguard because he was welcomed to participate by the guy he was in correspondence with. Unsworth comment was really disrespectful to someone just trying to help. He was in a moment where he could get away with saying anything and went with it. Musk’s reaction was reasonable but his choice of response clearly wasn’t. I actually wanted the case to go against him because I agree that you can put someone in a socially ostracized situation by calling them out in such a taboo style. Though an article covering jury comment had one saying, it was more that unsworth’s team played up trying to sway jury emotion rather than sticking to logic and facts and proving their case that route. If he had different lawyers perhaps he would have a potentially different result. Guess hard to know quality of ur lawyers till after the fact.

    1. Esteb – Okay, I’m going to come clean here. I don’t like Musk because I think he’s bloody ugly. Plus all that other stuff.

      I guess that puts me in some alphabet category. Please don’t say feminist. I don’t know what it means. I have a neighbour whose son leaps up and spouts stuff about feminists whenever he sees me, and I have to creep past their house now the way my poor old Mum crept past the Campbells in case their dog heard her.

      How do you think I feel about judging a man on his looks ? Just how bad is that ?

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