What happens if war comes? The true cost of an Independent Foreign Policy for NZ
As TDB pointed out last week, the reason NZ was clear to articulate a different vehicle for criticising China was because there is concern within NZ that America and Australia are foolish enough to start some type of military adventure against China and the last thing we want to do is help provoke that.
Australia yesterday played up that war…
Australian official Michael Pezzullo warns ‘drums of war’ are beating with China
One of Australia’s top national security officials has warned that free nations “again hear the beating drums” of war, as military tensions rise in the Asia-Pacific region.
Australian home affairs secretary Michael Pezzullo said in his Anzac Day message, released on Sunday that Australia should do everything in its power to find peace “until we are faced with the only prudent, if sorrowful, course” of opting for war.
…if conflict comes, it comes, but we have no interest in helping the American Military Industrial Complex start a war in our neighbourhood!
Look, we all despise China’s abuse of human rights as much as we despise America’s corporate wars against CIA client States and we are as horrified by China’s mass surveillance capabilities which are almost as evil as America’s mass surveillance tyranny.
B-U-T thanks to John Key’s ‘All-our-cows-in-one-Beijing-Paddock’ strategy, all our cows are in China making us reliant on them economically. Nanaia signalled we are looking to de-couple that power they have over us, but that is a mid term strategy, not something we can do immediately.
Could you imagine the screams from this fucking twat and the rest of NZ rural sector if NZ cut ties with China overnight? The Farmers would cause an armed insurrection against Jacinda and announce a new State of China in the South Pacific.
Wouldn’t that be the perfect irony? It wasn’t Uni students waving around Mao’s Little Red Box that caused a revolution, it was debt ravaged Farmers desperately trying to sell bulk milk powder to China that did it!
Th drum beat for war is sounding louder now and NZ is gong to have to start to understand that the true cost of an Independent Foreign Policy for NZ requires a large independent armed forces to defend NZ, not to deploy external force.
We don’t want to be dominated by Washington OR Beijing, but to do that we need to be able to independently defend ourselves in a climate crisis world that is primed for conflict.
This is a debate that needs to be urgently had.
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I read in the ABC yesterday that Australia should prepare for war. That worrying line from their rather antagonistic Home Affairs Ministry, the same one that gave us that fuckwit Peter Dutton, who when not participating in taking out Australia’s home made trash to NZ and treating us with utter contempt, is looking for the next threat to Australian’s that doesn’t really exist.
He is of course now Minister for Defense. And I imagine if this tool is looking for a war and that proposition is not hard to imagine, then he’ll find one. But I seriously now worry about Australia’s delusional opinion of grandeur their politicians have invented for themselves and the inevitable sorry place that will lead!
Everyone wants there own vaccines, our own masks and our own logestics chain and that kind of competition is no good. Long term globalization will struggle.
People may not feel like globalization benefits them but I have no doubt if NZ economy closed everyone will be worse off.
We must be able to keep the borders open and trade flowing. We must be able to upgrade the workforce with constant government funded education and retraining programs and Willie Jackson is working very hard on this. It’s not easy to say that America and China will come to blows while they are focused on domestic issues but if they’re fighting over the same resource then there will be a clash.
No one wants a situation where in the lead up to WW1 everyone believed that all was wonderful until it wasn’t. We don’t want a repeat of Gallipoli. In this new environment our tactical commanders, lieutenants and sergeant’s require instant support whether it be air support, sea lift, air lift, extraction, direct or indirect fire support we can not leave them vulnerable on top of a hill alone.
If you’re a hammer everything else looks like a nail
Maybe they’ll conscript the 501’s and send them as cannon fodder?
You rightly point out that we need a re-think of our military – what is it’s role and what resources does it need if we are to be more independent? I would have thought that defence of our shores and fisheries, obligations to the Pacific region and peace-keeping functions would be the priorities rather than deploying an external force for other than peace-keeping purposes.
We also quickly need to widen our markets past China and look to ensure that we have enough skilled local workers to provide the infrastructure we need and to re-incentivise local manufacturing so we are not so dependent on imports from abroad.
Australia are deluded if they think they can match it with the big boys the likes of Russia and China. And we have just wept for our Anzacs, no more war, talk is the best.
If China the US and Australia get into a military conflict and we opt out, we will need the military resources to protect shipping across the Tasman sea, if China sent its navy around the Australian coast to attack shipping. If we opt out, I doubt the US and Australia will spare us the resources to protect shipping across the Tasman sea.. At the moment we have 2 frigates and some anti-submarine aircraft, which is not enough. We used to have 4 frigates. And we don’t have any long range anti shipping missiles.
And don’t imagine that serious peace operations force will be cheap. E.g. the UN in Mali, the Congo and Central African Republic use helicopter gunships and armoured fighting vehicles. Very expensive surveillance equipment, drones and precision guided weapons are needed in these insugent type conflicts – e.g. to avoid civilian casualties when insurgents are attacking civilians. Maybe countries like Sweden, Ireland, NZ and Canada should combine efforts to set up an ‘on call’ substantive UN Peace Operations capability.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDUAEegImXY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSwRz9D8jJc
I imagine if there is a war it will be short and sweet This is why China and Russia being the adults in the room do not respond, as they could, to the constant provocations from the USA and NATO. They are primarily defensive by nature. Notice how it is the Americans that have 800 military bases ringing China and Russia and in other parts of the world including Australia. How it is NATO that sends troops to Afghanistan to help the USA undermine Russia southern border. How the UK sends warships to the South China Sea for god knows what reason.
Modern missile technology has rendered power projection using Aircraft Carrier battle groups obsolete. Imagine if China or Russia destroyed one of these battle groups, never leaving their own territory but simply using unstoppable hypersonic precision missiles. What then would the US response be. Either backdown or resort to nuclear weapons. This would then result in a deadly response from Russia who have confirmed they will use nuclear weapons if their homeland is attacked. Where would that leave us? Nuclear winter? As Clint Eastwood famously said . Do you feel lucky ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I530sPVQSc8
Hang on!
Wasn’t it Auntie Helen who signed that free trade deal with China?
Makes no difference. The CCP have been waging war against the west for the last few decades. New Zealand is not restricted from it.
https://warontherocks.com/2016/04/a-new-generation-of-unrestricted-warfare/