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  1. I agree with most of what you are saying but think it is too simplistic. For a start to say that people vote for Trump because they have been left behind by neoliberalism is not necessarily true.

    I think there are people who actually are doing ok under neoliberalism but still are rejecting it, because they are concerned by the erosion of civil liberties under (left and right parties) and the lack of fairness being taken out of the justice system. Those people might not vote at all. They may have voted Bernie Sanders but they won’t vote Clinton or Trump. Or they might be so angry they vote Trump in protest.

    The erosion of civil liberties is showing itself in mass surveillance, lack of transparency in government and corporations, free trade agreements that clearly don’t make any sense but are pushed by both parties (i.e. ISDS that allows corporations to sue governments but not governments to sue corporations – really who the fuck would sign that in good faith?), nonsensical and complicated rules such as the EU hedgerows or VAT on butter vs chocolate.

    The idea that Obama ordering the highest assassination killings by drones without a legal trial to the victims getting the peace prize for many is a step too far into the twilight zone, the renditions, the torture, as is the constant black police killings in the USA that are rarely leading to any charges against the killer.

    So my view is that there are many people who used to vote left, not left behind by neoliberalism in the financial sense, but are not prepared to vote for the left wing parties in their current form any more due to their schizophrenic policy.

    For example LabourTony Blair entering the Iraq War and essentially ramming it through. The UK now has one of the worst surveillance laws in the world for spying on citizens. At the same time politicians are saying they are so frightened they need this massive surveillance regime they also want to open immigration, foreign investment and so forth. For many the strategy makes zero sense. Spy on citizens and then give massive investment to Chinese or anyone else to build nuclear power stations for example in the UK? Of course many people’s pockets are being lined in these non sensical decisions.

    The global .1% are taking over with the politicians at the wheel driving the changes. It is not about ethnicity, gender or nationality anymore.

    Those in the ‘club’ who meet at Davos or what the Fuck they call it, have joined forces to enrich themselves anyway they can while screwing over their countries. In their eyes I’m sure they think they are doing the world a favour under their benevolent (for most) stewardship. But if anyone comes up against them, then they will face a dirty war and not succeed (Bernie Sanders, Corbyn even Trump) so in a sense democracy is dying.

    That is why both liberals and Nationalistic people are angry. Citizens don’t wants to go back to Imperialism and being controlled by a bunch of dangerous, deluded out of touch nobs. The empire failed because countries and citizens want autonomy.

    We are getting the opposite.

    Many are worrying about Trump being a fascist – I would say we already have closet Fascism under the current system, a form of radical authoritarian globalism influenced by international syndicalism. It’s just in plain sight, with renditions, torture, surveillance, political attacks, one world MSM, integrated trade that fails most citizens etc etc

    Yes many do not notice while watching TRHA, but more voters are noticing and voting to disrupt the march of international fascism.

  2. P. S I’m not sure Gareth would get to 5% but I do think Labour could try to recruit him.

    And Labour should be saying if elected they would have a referendum on a UBI.

    They need a big ticket policy explainable in one sentence that will appeal to many and represent a change of direction.

  3. Interesting, Martyn.

    I would liken Cameron Slator with Steve Bannon from Breibart News. Two angry, white, reactionary males with inflated egos, wayward moral compasses, and outrageous sense of entitlement.

    Could Morgan be our “Trump”? Unlikely. The NZ psyche doesn’t take well to noisy, hairy chest-thumping demagogues. Even Peters in his hey-day managed only 16 or 17% of the MMP vote.

    Perhaps that is our saving grace; MMP. It was intended to dilute the power of politicians and thus far has done a fairly good job. Even Key, the darling of propertied middle classes managed only 47%, and their puppet, Act, are on terminal life support.

  4. Welcome back Martyn. Now you are on fire again. I thought we had lost you with the way you fawned over Hillary !
    I think you might be hoping for more than Gareth will deliver though.

  5. But , but , but … Ronnie and Maggie were right , really , honest ,.. they were !!! They were !!!

    Even the NZ Herald said so this morning. And the NZ Herald is the most honest, enlightened source of true journalism in this country today. And one of the people in an interview said this :

    { ‘ ManufacturingNZ and ExportNZ executive director Catherine Beard said the best-case scenario for New Zealand exporters would be that Trump’s anti-trade views mellowed and the pro-trade factions of the Republican Party prevailed.

    “The markets help keep governments honest and I’m sure there will be a lot of policy advice given to the incoming president to take sensible approaches to things, so let’s hope that common sense prevails,” Beard said.’ }

    See ? see?

    And the TTPA is good for us and Donald Trump is bad , bad , bad.

  6. I agree with this post, but it’s taken a long time before you’re finally starting to “get it” (i.e. that Trumpism can exist in a progressive Western country). After all, you were one of the many bloggers and MSM saying Trump voters were little more than knuckle dragging rednecks, xenophobes and misogynists on this very site (on numerous occasions). Voter demographics simply don’t support that (well they were never going to – since ultimately this IS still the same America that voted in Obama TWICE), something you are now finally acknowledging.

  7. Also, we need to talk seriously about Monbiot; he’s a pussy, and has zero chance at winning anything. He’s a green globalist, which means that for all his fancy talk, he’ll never really understand Brexit or Amexit because they are fundamental rejections of globalism. To understand them is to understand that he’s pissing in the wind – and he can’t do that.

    Take this for example:

    “As I warned in April, the result is first disempowerment then disenfranchisement. If the dominant ideology stops governments from changing social outcomes, they can no longer respond to the needs of the electorate.”

    I remember this article; he was talking about neoliberalism, but voters whose actions he couldn’t fathom were thinking the exact same thing about the European Union, which he supported. He won’t treat green globalism or the EU with the same honesty he will view ‘neoliberalism’ in. But the EU and green globalism are neoliberal structures.

    I’m amused at the lack of agency he ascribes to Trump as an ’empty vessel’ waiting to be ‘filled’ by neoliberal think tankers. The guy who picked his own move well before Monbiot figured it out is the empty vessel and Monbiot the genius who is calling it? Yeah, no.

    “Those who tell the stories run the world. Politics has failed through a lack of competing narratives. The key task now is to tell a new story of what it is to be a human in the 21st century. It must be as appealing to some who have voted for Trump and Ukip as it is to the supporters of Clinton, Bernie Sanders or Jeremy Corbyn.”

    But this is the problem, Monbiot; the narrative will not be a globalist narrative, which means you won’t be the one getting to write it. And that’s gotta bug the hell out of you.

  8. Sometimes typos are quite funny.

    “the appealing manner people are treated by WINZ”

    yeah, right. Appalling, surely.

  9. Trump didn’t win Clinton lost.
    The Republican vote was almost the same as at the previous two elections, the difference was a big drop in Democrat votes – looks like a huge number couldn’t hold their nose and vote for Hillary so they just stayed home, also giving the House and the Senate to the Republicans.
    There was no big swing to Trump – there was one away from the Democrats, well Hillary in particular.
    So let’s be careful when trying to draw local parallels.

      1. @SaveNZ Yes like that Edwards article – especially the stuff about MMP, deadwood etc.
        Just seen the movie “Tomorrow” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4449576/ – interesting ideas in there especially about politics and local politics. One idea, elect councillors by ballot – they do a much more committed job and owe nobody any favours.

  10. I would vote for Gareth Morgan if he did that. Been waiting for Labour to show some courage but that’s never going to happen. And I am a woman, Māori, 61 and have 4 tertiary qualifications including a law degree. So it sort of defeats your point that only white uneducated males would vote for Trump. A range of people voted for Trump but your MSM news source focuses on these people, of which there were no doubt many voters – but definitely not solely. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/dr-martin-luther-kings-niece-endorses-donald-trump-believe-many-things-hes-saying/

    1. Good on you Winifred. And you would be the typical wasted vote. You are wasting your time waiting for whatever it is you want Labour to do if they don’t know it. Wouldn’t it be useful for you to join the Labour Party and put yourself forward as a candidate or just become active. There was an opportunity for anyone to put their names forward for the policy committee after the last election. Where were you. What’s the point in having 4 Tertiary qualifications if you are just going to use it writing comments on TDB. It was obvious that it wasn’t just the white middle class males who voted for Trump. There is a class of Americans who are the Average American. Their daughters train as chearleaders. They wouldn’t be voting for The Hilary’s of this world. They fill the football, baseball and basketball stadiums every weekend. They drive like lunatics on I 80 on Sunday mornings to get to the game in the Bay Area. There are 300 million of them. They are terrified of socialized medicine. They watch unmitigated crap on TV. They cue up at In-Out Burger, God knows why. They go to Disney world for their annual holiday. They own pit bulls and hand guns to protect themselves. And they shop at Walmart. They voted for Trump because he represents Average America. They are and were conned.

  11. No mention of the importance of religion to the US election result. As much as anything, Trumps victory was pushback by Christians against a secular society and abortion in particular. I personally know about seven Trump supporters in my social circle. One of these sees him as fighting the establishment, one didn’t like Clinton because of conspiracy theories, and the other five are all Christians.

  12. What is the basis for imagining that Morgan would do ANY of these things?? I’ve not heard him say anything that would irretrievably ruffle the feathers of your average predatory Capitalist.

  13. To find a spokesperson for the dis-empowered you need someone who speaks their language and who can appeal to a wide enough section of the rest of the population as well. It is possible that Morgan can peel off enough of the bored but excitable population to hand marginal victory to the Left, maybe, but not to foment sweeping political revolution. The people you hope to energize are simply not a majority. The end.

    No, if it were up to me, I would plan to flip Richie. What about a honey trap with Jacinda?…KIDDING…KIDDING…Grant…

    Seriously, there is already a joined-up narrative available, not simply a return to the social politics of the fifties, but also recognizing the needs of the environment and the individual along with the opportunities afforded by collectivism and State intervention, but what is likely to be needed for this kind of policy to prevail, is the right kind if messenger. I’m not sure that person has come to the surface yet. In the meanwhile let’s live in the real world, show a little discipline and support those who are at least trying to promote some sort of progressive agenda. We may not have everything, so let’s work with what we do have.

    Next year’s election is there to be won. So let’s win it.

  14. Attack politics do not serve the left. Their most important effect is not to win votes for the right, but to make the whole of politics look like scary mud wrestling, and intimidate people out of being actively involved, which allows the right to win even with beatable vote counts around 30%, as both Key and Trump did. What we need is a vision of our potential future that has both inspiring and practical aspects.

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