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  1. It is extremely demoralising to people involved in primary industries who have over years put effort into running their businesses conscientiously in respect of the environment they have chosen to make their lives in, and love not just as much but more than their city brethren who prefer the comfort and convenience of the city life, to realise how they can only earn the hatred and condemnation of the rest of society. The society that derives everything from the land and the sea they that is not provided by tourism.
    Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!
    It’s for sure that the way pigs and poultry are farmed doesn’t bare close examination. Think about it next time you are eating your KFC. The reason that chicken leg is so succulent and large is not a good thing for the chicken, The lambs however are born into their natural environment and the late snow storm is a hazard that exists for them irrespective of farming. Which brings up the point that none of these animals would have a life at all in this over utilised world except to serve to feed humanity. Few living things would choose not to live even if life has to end, but I fully agree that there is no case for making any life less pleasant than it needs to be.
    BTW the price of farm land is a curse to the farming community ; it is light years above what is economically sustainable for any other industry and is entirely the result of government policy of bout camps to encourage unlimited overseas speculation on our land for short term balance of payments statistics to look good.
    D J S

    1. I love the sanctimoniousness of this comment.

      Farmers aren’t growing all this food for NZers, they are growing it for the international market. If this was just about producing food for the 5million who live here, we would have a lot more concern and compassion, but Farmers are growing for a market of 45million others. So drop the pretence.

      1. My point was that those exports provide everything else we all use and consume. As well as what we eat. The share of revenue those exports return to the farm, just like all primary industries everywhere and always is the bare minimum that the system needs to provide the primary producer to keep the produce coming to market. Occasionally there are accidents that occur in the downstream management that allow a tiny bit more than essential but these over time are massively outweighed by the temporary oversupply generated by those windows.
        Try it sometime.
        D J S

        1. That would be because they suck up all the available resources. Good on the govt for imposing limits. It means that more of the resources will now be available for something else and if you dont have the imagination to see what else there are plenty that will take the opportunity to diversify that this offers

      2. Farmers are a private business getting handouts from our government, using free water and wrecking our rivers and streams while we fix there fuck ups and pay for there stock with m bovis costing us millions and many of us cant even afford the meat its too dare. And yet our farmers have been getting hand outs since the geckgo and now our government is offering help with water pollution options help is always on hand for farmers who never seem to be satisfied it seems to be all take and not much give this needs to change.

    1. Some on arable land will be able to grow a grain crop to feed the meat/milk factory but it would be more efficient to eat the crop directly. Hill country doesn’t have that option.
      The synthetic meat will not grow out of sand or soil or air. Or out of mineral oil either I would.t think.
      D J S

  2. Improved rural urban linkages: Building sustainable food systems

    The article of Christine Rose describes facts that cannot be disputed. Many arguments raised by the respondents cannot be disputed either.

    Building up rural or city folks as actual enemies of each other is not helpful at the end, albeit useful for analytical purpose, especially if an element of class structure would be added to it.

    Both groups, rural and urban producers and consumers, are trapped in the same system of reckless exploitation of natural resources and capitalization of every iota of life. One does not go minus the other.

    Without a perspective of radical system change the discussion tends to look like mudslinging.

    No doubt, what AONZ needs is a comprehensive rural development programme that fosters diversification of agricultural production, local market orientation, rural vocational training, sustainable forestry and fisheries, land use governing protection of natural resources, etc.

    Climate Resilience.

    System change. Now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJgMzxUTx2U

  3. For the record, I’ve condemned the banking system elsewhere. And I’m certainly not getting fat on KFC because I don’t eat that shit and don’t eat any meat at all. I don’t drink lattes either.

    1. Christine I totally concur with your horror of unnecessary cruelty to animals and your empathy with the distress that farming animals causes them at times. But nature itself is cruel. I don’t believe animals are any less subject to emotional distress than we are just because they can’t speak. Their body language is eloquent.
      But it gets us nowhere to castigate and censure the farming community the way you have done here. You could have made all the points you have about the environment without the accusations and hostility emulating Martyns natural instincts. It’s not constructive to make enemies of the people you have to work with.
      No hard feelings D J S

      1. I’m lactose intolerant, and I’m not a calf. I was weaned years ago 🙂 Though I do commend the happycow milk company

  4. You’ve lumped a bunch of primary industries together all with different issues, all irrelevant to each other , all important but you are coming across with a classic urban vs rural uninformed spray, your (apparent) historic country roots don’t forgive you some basic knowledge.
    Some specific points:
    Pigs: by law must be stunned before bleeding out when slaughtered commercially. Farmers cutting throats without first shooting dead even on farm would also be reported and fall short of current welfare codes. If your family was cutting pigs throats on farm even back in the day without shooting, that’s a shit show, and your family have issues, not normal.
    https://www.agriculture.govt.nz/dmsdocument/1409-commercial-slaughter-animal-welfare-code-of-welfare
    Sheep: clearly unbeknown to you some farmers are already moving to local anaesthetic for docking.
    Lamb losses to snow? Before agriculture goats/sheep would have been simply eaten alive by wolves or mountain lions. Well farmed animals live a better life on farm than a naturally predated one.
    Nature is cruel and doesn’t have welfare standards.
    Good farmers, which is most of them, empathise immensely with their stock.They suffer mentally when their animals do and consequently have a higher suicide rate than social justice warriors.
    They are animal people, not urban preachers.
    Dairy? Not a personal fan of corporate farming, most aren’t corporates , it’s crap to lump everyone in with some over irrigated farms in Canterbury. How to unwind the over intensification of some areas without hitting the guys doing the right thing should be the question. Solution is nuanced and will involve compensation as in Taupo and overseas. More stick, no carrot seems to be what’s on offer.
    Good luck with that.
    Fed farmers? Have done more harm than good at national level being pig headed despite some genuine good reps at ground level IMO
    Commercial fishing? Different thread?
    This post of yours further impresses on me that the left aren’t looking for solutions for NZ they are just looking to put the boot in to who they perceive as their political opponents- they certainly will be now.
    The politics of kindness.

  5. Farming is like housing.

    The land is overvalued. And we want higher farm and land use standards and we want better quality housing.

    Farmers with the debts they have will struggle with higher standards and given land for housing is so expensive and we have a housing shortage – every move to improve housing quality results in increasing unaffordability (prices and rents).

    The government is doing more in housing (1000 new state houses a year) and now rent to own.shared equity (capped numbers), lower deposits for Kiwi Build homes. But not enough.

    As for farmers – I would suggest interest free loans for money invested to raise farming practice standards (the money plus interest accruing repaid on farm sale, so the government books are OK), so that farm operating costs are unaffected.

  6. I didn’t say the pigs weren’t shot first – but that doesn’t diminish the horror and really, when such acts of barbarism as bashing calves to death or killing animals without stunning them first, the chances of any scrutiny let alone reporting are incredibly low – you’d need to be a very courageous whistle blower to report such travesties, and yet that is what reporting and compliance relies un because there are less than 30 MPI inspectors for the whole country. I also know finally now in 2019 that MPI are consulting on mandatory anesthesia for significant surgical procedures such as tail docking (unless for example in the case of piglets less than seven days old), -and we’ll see whether those measures actually get through the system and get implemented on farms with thousands of animals. To say that this treatment of animals is acceptable because they otherwise wouldn’t have a life and because in the wild animals die from cold and snow and wolves is a farcical argument. 70 billion animals are farmed every year and this is a systematic commodification and derogation of animals’ lives and rights. The sectors aren’t separate from each other, it’s a broad institutional problem.

    1. You certainly implied the pigs weren’t shot. If they had been then they were dead when bled and your revulsion is to the blood not the suffering.
      It is not legal to bludgeon calves to death either.
      I’m not sure that waxing emotive (and slightly misleading) on illegal activity really demonstrates anything – bad people break laws, that doesn’t mean we should stop farming.
      NZ has recently upgraded welfare laws and good farmers are well ahead of legal minimum standards.
      The tail docking local anaesthesia thing has potential, but I’m not sure it’s at a stage yet where it’s proven 100% effective, or practical but at least they are trying eh.
      Good for you going vegan and walking the talk.

      1. Keepcalmcarryon – it was never my intention to imply they weren’t shot, but they certainly weren’t dead when they were bled. I know the horrors aren’t legal, but by the bravery of whistleblowers we know it happens. In fact I’ve heard from people working in the industry directly that there’s more on-farm booby calf killing even than there used to be. There are some good farmers and some improvements signalled for animal welfare standards, but the basic premise of farming in my view – and that of a growing proportion of the community, an abhorrent, unjustified and unncecesary practice. I recommend some of the vast array of literature on this – starting with Peter Singer’s highly rational views, but also Sue Anderson & Will Kymlicka’s ‘Zoopolis’, and ‘Making a Killing; the Political Economy of Animal Rights’, as well as looking at NZ’s Animal Welfare Act and many of our current practices. Look at MPI’s ruling announced today for example, that winter grazing of animals in chest deep mud doesn’t contravene the Animal Welfare Act. Southland farmers might say the cows weren’t in mud for long – but how would they like to spend a night in mud with their young. There’s physiological and psychological evidence of the impacts of even small traces of mud in cows’ water supplies – the AWA just hasn’t kept up.

        1. Farming is unjustifiably inhumane – example given: lots of blood but pig was already shit/stunned-
          Yet you loudly advocate for aerial use of a poison (1080)that takes up to 24 hours to kill, affecting countless thousands of animals whose young then die of starvation. The SPCA found it was in humane.

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