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  1. Chris, long time reader of your comments and always enjoy the sense of history you bring to your arguments. But I feel you and all the other left wing, progressive-whatever you like to call them commentators (Bradbury, Campbell, Hager et al), are floundering over this issue.
    Quite simply the whole windy edifice of your arguments, like an inverted pyramid, is built on acceptance the “vaccine” is safe.
    Take that away and every other righteous argument directed at the non-vaccinated collapses.
    For the record – I’m what Mike Moore would describe as ‘tribal labour’. Voted Labour till 1987 then it was another 15 years before I could stomach voting for them again. Voted for the current arrangement twice but when Ardern gleefully announced her vaccine mandate for me this was a Rubicon she crossed there was no coming back from.
    A Labour government driving good people out of their jobs because they elect not to take a medical intervention they regard, at best, as dubious. As a lefty of long standing Chris, you know the big pharmaceutical companies have a long and sordid history of fraudulence and malfeasance in the pursuit of profit.
    If you haven’t done your research in this area it’s time you did. Forget about wracking your brains and dusting off your history books. It’s not that bloody hard to
    understand why some of us ex team of five million want nothing to do with the jab.

    1. I would say you are more feral than tribal, 100 years ago you would have been interned at Somes Island.

    2. “Quite simply the whole windy edifice of your arguments, like an inverted pyramid, is built on acceptance the “vaccine” is safe.”

      Garbage. We don’t elect to accept vaccines simply based on whether they are safe. Virtually nothing in life is fully safe. We elect to accept the trade off in risks between their known benefits and known adverse outcomes when these are weighed against the risk of not taking the vaccine or against the disease it is designed to protect against.

    3. Another day, more disinformation from Nostromo. More research required, I mark your attempt a -G.

        1. Businesses sell products for a profit for starters, then you add labels like “lefties” to your argument. And driving good people out of their jobs, give me a break. And don’t listen to anything the Hitler says, he’s an ignoramus.

    4. And can we please have your EVIDENCE that the vaccine being used all over the world is not safe? Oh you don’t have any… do you suggest that the Govt just sits on its hands because of the paranoia of you & your AV cronies? You won’t be missed at the next election… looking forward to 1 more vote for Sue Grey or whatever nutter you lot prefer

  2. We live in strange times Chris! As a vaccinated person myself I cannot be totally surprised at the lack of trust in the science community among a significant fraction of society:

    Wasn’t it the science community who funded the ‘gain of function’ research that created the virus in the first place?
    Isn’t the vaccine made by Pfizer, a company previously that had to pay $2.3 billion settlement for “fraudulent marketing” of one of their products?
    Isn’t the Royal Society of New Zealand currently investigating some of its members for daring to suggest that Maori ‘cultural practices’ aren’t real science?

    2020 was the year the general public learned that scientists can be frauds too!

  3. Sometimes an unpopular minority is righteous–WWI conscientious objectors being an obvious contender. The Great War was all about imperialist powers jockeying for dominance at the expense of their respective working classes. Those swimming against the tide and refusing to bear arms a hundred years ago were trying to advance the principle of valuing and saving human life, not extinguishing it by avoidable human actions.

    The hard core of the disparate anti vaccination groups are the exact opposite. Under a false flag of personal rights and hyper individualism they are quite willing to endanger other citizens. Their core motivation is rotten and undeserving of respect.

  4. “A vast international crisis, the Covid-19 Pandemic, has exposed the irrational underbelly of twenty-first century society.” – Amongst the 20 plus anti-vaxers I personally know are evangelical Christians, vegans, health food promoters abd, homeopaths, old hippies, Ban 1080 people, artists and musicians, Maori activists, and mainstream work colleagues

    1. Sounds like a group that either failed school science or had a science teacher that failed them.

  5. You are one hundred percent right in this statement Mr Trotter;

    “If the troops of Reason and Justice are withdrawn; if Liberty’s bayonets are sheathed; there will be Hell to pay.”

    Question is; who is withdrawing from Reason and Justice, who is sheathing Liberty’s bayonets?

    I would point the finger directly at Ardern, Labour and the wokesters. The are effectively dividing the nation so that authoritarianism can be promulgated.

    The country stands at a great divide. This is by design. The promotion of “if you are not for us, than you are an enemy” is coming to the fore.

    And white people are the blame of all ills to foster this divide. The authoritarian demands an evil enemy to conquer so as to “save” the nation and the grateful citizens will fawn at their feet. Totally under control.

    Except that for now the dissidents have a voice. No matter how much rabble they contain, if democracy is to prevail they must exercise the right to that voice. Please don’t encourage this voice to be driven underground.

  6. Its a poor comparison imo partly because you can flip the narrative and thus the protagonists in the essay…

    Minority group with limited rights only allowed or able to take certain jobs, only go certain places and for those between 12 and 18 limits to educational and social opportunity in the name of public good…

  7. Still parroting the fake narratives of the [fascistic -melding of corporate and government interests] LINO government, I see.

    And still refusing to look at the evidence.

    That’s why I gave up on TDB many weeks ago, as have many others.

    I guess you’ll learn the hard way, eventually, Chris.

    And since this comment challenges the bullshit, I suppose it has to be censored out of existence.

    But the truth will emerge, with whatever silly, fascistic, censorship games games TDB play.

    1. You gave up on TDB, yet here you are. Uncensored. Tedious – about as novel as a fly on shit.

      1. Good point……..I mean, I don’t hover around the NZME comments sewer, so why l are there so many right wingnuts here?

      2. You clearly haven’t had dozens of your posts never turn up… yet. If maybe 10% of your posts get made available to the public are you being censored, or not?

  8. “If the troops of Reason and Justice are withdrawn; if Liberty’s bayonets are sheathed; there will be Hell to pay.” – Great writing . .

  9. It’s not about culture wars. Its about the decline and decomposition of capitalism.
    Neoliberalism was the last chance for End Stage capitalism to stabilise the global economy.
    It failed to restore profitability sufficiently to soak up the stock of capital, leading to speculation in existing assets as opposed to producing new ones.
    This decline was not halted by the end of the Soviet Bloc. Worse, Russia and China were born again as rampant capitalist rivals.
    As capitalism decomposes, it exposes the rotting corpses of previous modes of production in its bowels.
    Slavery, serfdom and unfree wage labor return with all their reactionary cultural effluvia rising to the surface.
    Nationalism, racism and sexism break down the advances of ‘enlightenment’ of capital in the 18th and 19th century, unleashing the long overdue backlash of nature fighting back.
    We recognise this concept as the ‘capitalocene’ which expresses the deepening contradiction between capital and nature of capitalists exploiting nature for profit.
    Yet this contradiction has created the potential in its growth for counter-acting forces to resist as a return of nature to unleash the conditions for a post-capitalist future – the class struggle.
    All of this was understood by Marx by 1848 as part of the science of the enlightenment, of reason, under attack by irrationality of postmodern capitalism of today.
    The rise of the irrational, the cult of the individual mired in the particularity of nation, race and gender acts to weaken the secular, scientific, universal of our grounding in the material world.
    It expresses itself as a cultural war, rather than a class war.
    Humanity must restore itself in nature and return to its material roots to wage the class war.
    Our survival depends on it.

    1. ‘Humanity must restore itself in nature and return to its material roots to wage the class war.
      Our survival depends on it.’

      Our survival depends on the money-lender-come-industrial system collapsing immediately. And even then it may well be too late, since we are in severe overshoot with respects to most factors -especially population and consumption of resources- whilst at the same time pollution levels have never been higher and biodiversity is in terminal decline.

      Undoubtedly the burgeoning food crisis (leading to even more mass starvation) and burgeoning energy crisis (leading to failure of transport systems etc.) will bring the entire system to its knees quite soon. But whether it will be fast enough to prevent the Earth being rendered uninhabitable [for humans] is doubtful. The fake CoP 26 in talkfest in Glasgow clearly demonstrated those in power have no intention of preserving the long-term habitability of the Earth, and are only concerned with preserving the financial system and the benefits accruing to the top 1% in the short term…..thereby ensuring near-term collapse.

      What is really telling is that more people die on the roads of NZ and from drinking too much alcohol and from eating junk food than die from the greatly overhyped pandemic.

      1. “the greatly overhyped pandemic”

        Did you not see the corpses in the body bags outside the hospitals in Wuhan and Italy 20 months ago. The confirmed death rate for covid is 2%. Without Jacinda’s closed border, managed isolation and quarantine, lockdowns, free vaccinations and an achieved 90% vaccination target, there could have been 100,000 dead kiwis.

        If you are unvaxxed please get over the hype, we are not out of the woods yet, it’s likely hundreds if not thousands of unvaxxed kiwis are yet to die.

  10. Sadly anti-science is encouraged by neoliberal educational bums on seats with lecturers and those getting ahead in the education space who are cheaper, good networkers but now NOT best of breed, top researchers and academics. Expertise under globalism is now not mandatory, paid for lobbyists are getting richer with paid for science and opinions.

    Government made the polytechs in NZ equal to universities and now we have nothing, no good trades like builders and fewer academics coming out of the universities. Paid for education has let down domestic students who now are dropping like flies from higher education, instead of the false promise of more inclusion.

    Speaking of inclusion, can be very dangerous, when you have inclusions in everything, aka US creation theory, god created heaven and earth being taught in schools, pregnant people not woman, then you get voodoo science and easily led supporters.

    Combined with rampant individualism blossoming everywhere, where everyone is taking every else to court if they don’t get their way, mall terrorists with 2 armed SIS agents following them as it’s their right to try to kill others, gang members getting exemptions and millions from proceeds of crime, people with millions in cash and cigarettes somehow getting name suppression for ‘hardship’ while touting a QC, changing race is as easy as changing your sex and fully funded, while the physically disabled get funding cuts…. bonkers is the New Zealand where fairness and equality has been abandoned in individualist, identity, fuckwittery and networking, lobbyists take all.

  11. I agree Chris
    The insidious and imported element to the anti-vax movement is not to be reasoned with and this isn’t about a vaccine. The language is jarring and foreign, and pointed, and lastly dangerous.

    We’ve been protesting “freedoms” chopping down flagpoles, throwing dildos and shooting flags long before Steven Bannon’s fanatical followers infiltrated this particular movement.

    The sad part for me is some well meaning alternative folk don’t realise they are being cuckooed by other forces, and some political parties don’t realise they are being Manchurian Candidated by sinister elements to gain a footing in the New Zealand scene.
    And if the do realise, that’s even more abhorrent.

  12. Jacinda Ardern, first she was labeled a pretty communist, then a dopey socialist, then a woke millennial, then a nodding centrist, then a corrupt neoliberal, then an incompetent Labourite…..and now a fascist……..wow, what a woman eh, Buddug must be coming soon….

    There really are some badly programmed and very sick minded keyboard bots posting here.

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