GUEST BLOG: Talk Liberation – Suzie Talks Liberation

Imagine: enjoying technology created by a platform founder who doesn’t want to send you to Mars, plug your brain into a computer network controlled by them or transport you around in a driverless surveillance bubble. Enter Talk Liberation, the privacy-respecting software development house behind viral social media project Panquake, led by a very different kind of visionary: one that cares about the issues, without the ego. ‘Don’t depend on me to save you – build solutions and work with us’ Suzie Dawson effectively says in a rare sit-down interview. It’s a message the world needs to hear: you are more to us than just a captive audience member, more to us than a click. You have the potential to actively contribute to making change and together we can do it.

Talk Liberation is committed to providing equal access for individuals with disabilities. To view an accessible version of this article, click here.

For four years technologist Suzie Dawson has toiled quietly and relentlessly, building and growing startup social project Panquake into Talk Liberation – a fully-fledged international software development house capable of delivering the digital tools of the future to millions of internet users worldwide who are rightly desperate for fundamental change. The vision her team is working to bring to fruition is much-needed: more ethical, more people-centric and heralding a sea change: a far less dystopian dynamic than that presented to us by all other present confronting realities in media, culture and society today.

Talk Liberation is proof that technology doesn’t need to architecturally constrain or control human rights in order to serve users but can instead reinforce them – and in doing so, empower, inform, inspire and engage a customer base instead of just exploiting them for data.

“We believe in human rights, and we believe that human rights should be embedded in the platforms that we access and that we use. Right now, the status quo situation is that you have to give up your human rights when you use a platform, and it should not be that way. The platform itself should have the integrity, structural integrity, from an architectural perspective, but also in the commercialisation model, to reinforce your human rights. And that’s exactly what Panquake does as a social network, but more broadly, is what Talk Liberation does as a software development company.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

Working with talented and heart-driven team members in more than a dozen countries around the world, Talk Liberation is maturing into a modern technological force to be contended with. The dinosaurs of industry have already taken notice: Banks in Iceland and New Zealand have tried throwing spanners in the works of Talk Liberation but the scrappy tech business is fighting back, filing suit to hold them to account and launching public awareness campaigns like ‘Bad Banki’ to educate audiences about how traditional financial utilities are employing questionable tactics like ‘debanking’ that violate foundational economic freedoms in order to restrict innovation and keep newcomers down.

The old has always railed against the new – but the need for fundamental change in the tech industry is so obvious and profound, that progress will not be halted and nor will the emergence of viable alternatives, even if the powers that be slow walk them. One way or another, solutions are coming.

Recently, founder Suzie Dawson sat down with TruthWire hosts Craig ‘Pasta’ Jardula and Talk Liberation Media Director Fiorella Isabel to dig into the what, why and when of the new social world Talk Liberation is building for users worldwide.

What’s discussed:

• The Evolution: how a group of volunteers created Talk Liberation – and grew it into an international software development house
• The Tech: how keeping Big Tech, cloud computing and AI out of Talk Liberation’s technology frees users and and keeps Talk Liberation platforms truly independent
• The Ethos: how human rights are embedded and reinforced through innovation
• The Challenges: the opposition Talk Liberation has faced and is facing and how others worldwide must step up and be part of improving the internet for everyone

There is a real human-generated (not AI!) audio transcript provided below. Please share this post if these messages resonate with you!

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[Transcript begins]

FIORELLA – Alright. So we’re going to bring in our guest. One of the reasons I wanted to further talk about this is because there is a gigantic global trend on the issue of de-banking, and the issue of financial persecution, fam. We very well know that when it comes to, for example, independent journalists and independent media, and anybody that’s a dissident – if you are financially throttled, and if you are financially squeezed, you become incapable of doing what you need to do. Whether it’s your journalism or whatever other projects you may have. And we’ve been affected by the censorship. We’ve been affected by the de-throttling. And we also saw what happened during Covid. And how many people, of course in the infamous trucker movement that stood against the mandates, were also completely and totally throttled, and their bank accounts were frozen. And we have seen this trend grow in the UK. We have seen this grow, and be a concern even in the United States. And we also, really linking that, we have the issue of censorship/surveillance, and the internet data mining people to a degree that it’s becoming impossible for us to have a fair play at the system, meaning X has an algorithm that promotes a certain type of narrative. And we’ve seen it, we’ve talk about it just pretty much every time on this show. I get spammed a lot on X. I get crypto-boxed. And then, when it comes to Meta, Facebook has become just a complete nightmare. They completely are just deleting profiles everywhere. And so, as we’ve talked before with John Kiriakou, who came on the show and talked about what Panquake is, and what Talk Liberation is, and the products they have out. And I’ve been talking about it as well. I did an article in UK Column talking about everything that’s been going on. So I wanted to bring in a guest today that we haven’t had on. And, you know, she has been doing a lot of work behind the scenes, and really hasn’t been on too many independent media shows in a while. And she is somebody that I’ve known now for a while, and whose work ethic I’ve seen develop really well. So let’s go ahead and bring our guest in. She is the Founder and CPO of Panquake. She’s also an activist, a journalist, and a software developer, and a political dissident I would say. This is Suzie Dawson. Let’s welcome Suzie, fam.

CRAIG – Welcome Suzie. I guess, is what my part is to do. Suzie, you heard a lot of what Fiorella was saying, and welcome to the show by the way. I’d just like to add on all the things she had mentioned, and things she had mentioned in her article about the hurdles and what we’re dealing with. For me, it’s all about recreating or finding a place that will be the new public square, right. And that’s what I’ve always wanted, envisioned Panquake to be, or any other type of, you know, a platform that would come along, where it’s a free and fair public square. Where the, you know, the tech bros or the tech technocrats can’t manipulate because I’ve always said that, to me it would be a miracle if Panquake was to get off the ground because I don’t believe the ruling class would ever allow a public square that’s free and fair.

SUZIE – Hi guys.

FIORELLA – Exactly. Welcome Suzie, And before you go, I just want to, you know, – everything that Pasta said is so accurate. I want to let you respond to it, but I also just want to ask you in case people don’t know what, you know, the article that I have in UK Column that we’ll share in the chat right now, but in case people don’t know, what exactly have been some of the hurdles so far that you have experienced, and the company, Talk Liberation, as a whole in Iceland and also in New Zealand as well now?

“It’s all about that level playing field; about bringing actual genuine grassroots democracy to a social media platform, and giving everybody a fair go at being seen, and being heard, and being able to communicate.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

SUZIE – OK, it’s a big topic and a long story, but I will do my best to tell it. So first of all, thanks for having me guys. It’s really great to be here with you. Fi is right, I’ve known and loved her for a long time already, and I’ve seen a lot of Pasta’s work online, and it’s really special to get to be here with him as well. So I appreciate the opportunity

CRAIG – Flattery will get you everywhere, Suzie.

SUZIE – That’s genuine. That’s definitely genuine. OK. So Talk Liberation, our company, was founded in 2021 because of the support of thousands and thousands of regular people online. Because of their support, we’ve been able to build a multi-national corporate structure. A business that is robust and is vast, and is operating now in countries around the world. Our flagship project is Panquake, as you mentioned, which is a social network that solves, once and for all, our problems that we’re all having with Big Tech social media platforms. That means timelines that you control, that you decide what is in front of your eyeballs on your timeline. It’s not determined by some content algorithm by advertisers, by AI, or by the platform operators – us. We don’t decide. You decide. You pick who you want to follow. You get to see their content on your timeline, and you see nothing else. So it’s really an old school approach in terms of software development. We’re not relying on robots, we’re not relying on AI, we’re not relying on algorithms. Everything’s very, very organic, not just in the way the product functions for the user, but in the way we’ve built the product because we’ve built the product using independent open source tools and projects. No cloud hosting services, no AI services, no Big Tech. We’re not using Microsoft stuff. We’re not using Amazon, Google, any of that junk. We’ve stripped everything out, except organic open source independent tech. And thanks to an amazing team of what started out as volunteers in 2021, we have built this amazing application, Panquake. And Fi, I know, has actually got to already use Panquake. She’s one of the lucky people, one of the first in the world to get use it because Panquake is up on a test network right now. But obviously it’s been a long run from 2021 as a volunteer project with no funding, to 2025 as a multi-national corporation operating companies around the world. We are approaching our 50 staff milestone working for Talk Liberation now, which is absolutely huge, and we’ve been able to successfully obtain funding because what we’ve built is so rock solid, and so great, and so obviously valuable to consumers around the world. Panquake is a subscription based application. It’s five dollars a month for anybody, any subscriber. We do not allow paid advertising on the platform. Corporations have – it’s like a level playing field. Corporations who want to use Panquake for advertising have to get a regular account, pay the five bucks like everyone else, attract followers to actually follow them in order to be able to see their content. They can’t use money to get ahead on our platform. Joe Bloggs down the road has got the same ability to build a following, and obtain reach for his content as, you know, some oil company or god-knows-what government does. So it’s all about that level playing field; about bringing actual genuine grassroots democracy to a social media platform, and giving everybody a fair go at being seen, and being heard, and being able to communicate. And obviously this is inspired from my background as a human rights activist. We believe in human rights, and we believe that human rights should be embedded in the platforms that we access and that we use. Right now, the status quo situation is that you have to give up your human rights when you use a platform, and it should not be that way. The platform itself should have the integrity, structural integrity, from an architectural perspective, but also in the commercialisation model, to reinforce your human rights. And that’s exactly what Panquake does as a social network, but more broadly, is what Talk Liberation does as a software development company. So we have solutions that we’ve already released to the public for free, such as Panquake Me – P.N.Q.K. dot Me – our short link service, which people are using every single day to protect themselves and their audiences when they’re sharing content online because it strips out all the nasty Google cookies, and everything else that gets put into links to track users, and gives you clean short links that you can use to share with your friends and family without participating in spying on them or capturing their data. And we have, alongside Panquake, a whole suite of other products in development, and also in design as well. We actually have five products. We’ve only talked about three publicly, and I’m not going to talk about the other two right now, but we actually have five products in our stable already. And our organization has been built every step of the way with a very long term view in mind, of being able to develop products for normal, average every day consumers, but also for businesses as well, that take the same ethics and moral compass of Panquake into different areas of life. So we want to make the internet a better place, more broadly, and a safer place for people. One that doesn’t spy on them, and doesn’t track them, and doesn’t monetize their data and sell it off to people. But we also want to change the ability of people to do business with each other, and participate in commercial activities, also without capturing user data or participating in the nasty side of Big Tech. So we’re kinda trying to make an ethical Microsoft to be honest with you; or an ethical Oracle. We want to be able to develop, one day, browsers and operating systems, and other types of software even beyond just the social media realm, and have them be able to protect the users who engage with the products, rather than exploiting them.

“Our organization has been built every step of the way with a very long term view in mind, of being able to develop products for normal, average every day consumers, but also for businesses as well, that take the same ethics and moral compass of Panquake into different areas of life. So we want to make the internet a better place, more broadly, and a safer place for people. One that doesn’t spy on them, and doesn’t track them, and doesn’t monetize their data and sell it off to people.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

CRAIG – Nice. And by the way ladies and gentlemen, that is Big Tech out there, not Bit Tick. She’s talking about Big Tech out there. Just so you know, you know what I’m saying.

SUZIE – (Laughing) We need the American ‘e’ in there rather than the New Zealand ‘e’.

CRAIG – Yeah. Fam, do you want to go ahead, or do you want me to ask some questions.

FIORELLA – No, go ahead, go ahead.

CRAIG – Well, ok. So, I mean everything you say we’re jiving with, and there’s a lot of people out there who’ve heard a lot of this stuff for quite some time. Now, the first avenue of questions I want to ask you is going over the hurdles because I don’t think that anybody out there, I think most of the people who’ve heard your spiel, your pitch out there before; what you see Panquake becoming; what it is; what it can be; they’re cool with that, but a lot of people are a little bit frustrated that the product itself hasn’t come out, right. Like no matter, I’ve said regardless of what you’ve heard, we can talk about Suzie, we can talk about the product, we can talk about, whatever, why it’s taking so long. At the end of the day, you know, if it comes out, and it is what she says it’s going to be, all is forgiven. Nobody cares anymore. But at this point, there’s a lot of people who have made statements like, “no it’s scamquake, it’s never going to come out.” I know a lot of these people, they aren’t trying to do what you’re trying to do. That’s why I’m not so critical because I’m not trying to do and start a whole start up of a public square that can be something special, and something we desperately need. But I am one who is a little bit frustrated, and a little impatient at this point, like, come on Suzie, is this going to happen. Stop teasing me. When is this going to happen? When can we expect it to come out? How can you address your critics that are saying it’s never going to come out, this is just a whole nothing ball?

SUZIE – Well, the first thing I’d do is actually kick it to Fiorella because she’s logged into Panquake, made a Panquake profile, posted on a Panquake timeline, interacted with other people on Panquake, and has seen for herself that, not only does it exist and it’s real, but it’s pretty freaking cool.

CRAIG – Yeah.

SUZIE – That’d be the first thing. So yes, we did build the product. Yes, the product is everything that we promised it would be. It looks like we said it would look. It functions how we said it would function. In terms of delivery, we have a track record of delivery. We’ve delivered open source code bases, two of them so far. You can go and see, you can go and examine our code. You can go and see what a Panquake release looks like, what a Talk Liberation release looks like. So this is the real deal. Panquake will be published with all of its code. It will be examined by security researchers around the world, just as our previous two releases have been. So, again, that becomes self-evident. As to why it’s taking so long, unsurprisingly, we have had every conceivable thing thrown at us in the last four years. There’s been people, if they are in fact people, online twenty four seven posting two hundred tweets a day claiming that we’ve never written a line of code, which is obviously ridiculous. We have had the smear campaigns. Every single person I ever know, or talked to, or have interacted with, has been bombarded with ridiculous, insane smears about me and my organization. That’s kind of par for the course I guess these days, but then we had Twitter themselves wipe out all of the Panquake Twitter accounts, including our entire initial following from our initial campaign. Suspend them all, then un-suspend them, and then permanently ban them all for no stated reason, so that was a real pain in the butt in terms of being able to effectively communicate with our audience. On top of that, we had Paypal freeze thousands of dollars of donations, and never give them to us. And as we have revealed recently, the biggest hit that we took was in September of 2022, which was right after we had done our interface reveal of the application front end to our audience, which was really well received. And that was when we had obtained our initial seed funding to fund the blockchain build. And that funding, we did everything right. We had lawyers and accountants handling everything. We provided all documentation, everything, we were very proactive. We notified the banks in advance. We did everything right. And literally, at 4pm on a Friday afternoon, the bank froze our entire seed funding with no notice, and then ultimately took nine or ten months to actually give it back to us. So all of our plans for hiring, and operational plans, and infrastructure spend, and all the things we needed to do overnight just got burned to the ground. And because of that, we are suing. And we are really lucky to be represented by Wikileaks’ Icelandic legal team, who successfully won a ten million dollar suit against a payment processor acting on behalf of Visa and Mastercard in Iceland. We are headed to court next month in June. It’s been three years coming that we’ve been preparing this case, and this suit, and we’ve gone through various pre-trial hearings and stuff before this. And we are suing them for the damage that they did to our organization because that absolutely crippled us when that happened in 2022. In terms of the Panquake blockchain build, it crippled us. But we didn’t quit, and we didn’t give up. And we didn’t say, oh that’s too hard,” or “Oh well, you know, the opposition is too stiff.”

“The product is everything that we promised it would be. It looks like we said it would look. It functions how we said it would function. In terms of delivery, we have a track record of delivery. We’ve delivered open source code bases, two of them so far. You can go and see, you can go and examine our code. You can go and see what a Panquake release looks like, what a Talk Liberation release looks like. So this is the real deal.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

CRAIG – Suzie, can I ask one quick question. I don’t mean to interrupt, but I think it’s important to understand why is that the blockchain build is very important and necessary to the product, right? Can you explain really briefly in your description – I didn’t mean to cut you off – but I think people out there are thinking why is that blockchain build out so important that it needs to happen for Panquake to happen? Please.

SUZIE – Panquake is designed to be the first platform that is truly transparent to its customer base in the way that it operates and the way that it moderates content, as well as the way that users connect to each other and participate in the publishing of the data on the network. So in Twitter, when you send a tweet, you’re actually not sending it to who you think you’re sending it to. You’re sending it to Twitter, and it’s going into a little box controlled by Twitter, and then Twitter is deciding what it wants to do with it, and then maybe doing something with it according to their agenda. And you’ll never know what that agenda truly is. And you’ll never know how that data is actually handled and processed. And if they decide to moderate or, you know, suspend your account, for example, like they did to us, you’ll never know who did that; who made that decision; why they did it; when they did it; where they did it. But Panquake is the complete opposite. On Panquake, every action that is taken by any user, whether it’s creating content and publishing content, whether it’s interacting with other users; clicking the like button; sharing something, or whether it is us at Panquake suspending, or banning, or editing, or deleting. All of that is published on a public blockchain, openly. So if we suspend an account, the whole world can see Panquake suspended this account, on this day, at this time, for this reason, and this is who did it. And that is completely revolutionary. Imagine if you could actually see Facebook’s moderation practices. If you could audit them. If you could verify them. Imagine if there was a…

CRAIG – I think they should have to do it. I think it should be legal to protect you from…230, a NDNA, if you have protection, you need to show your homework. You need to show why you’re suspending these people out there. I don’t mean to interrupt, but I think that is very, very important. And that is something revolutionary when you start talking about this, Suzie, that it really, you know, it’s like, wow, one of those things. So I’m sorry for interrupting, but I thought it was just important. So, please go.

“Panquake is designed to be the first platform that is truly transparent to its customer base in the way that it operates and the way that it moderates content, as well as the way that users connect to each other and participate in the publishing of the data on the network.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

SUZIE – I agree with you. This is all about fundamentally rebalancing the power dynamic between the platform owners and the users of the platform because right now the platform owners have all the power, and no transparency, and no accountability. And we’re not OK with that. And so we want our userbase to be able to audit and check up on us, and what we’re doing, and the blockchain provides that level of transparency, but it also provides integrity for platform metrics. Meaning, on Facebook, there’s a thousand likes on a post. Did a thousand people actually click like on that post? Do you know that a thousand people did? Do you know that maybe it was like 50, and they changed it to a thousand? Or maybe it was a hundred thousand, and they went no, no, no, and put that back to a thousand. Same thing on Twitter. How the hell do you know that Elon Musk’s video got ten zillion views? You have no way to verify that ten zillion people actually saw his video. And it’s designed that way. It’s a closed system. It’s a black box system. And the owners are able to manipulate all of the data in that system, and they’re able to get away with it completely. But on Panquake, not just our platform moderation actions, but your actions, your public actions and interactions as users, are validated in transactions on the blockchain. So if a thousand people click like on a Quake on Panquake, there is one thousand traceable, auditable, publicly available transactions proving that one thousand real users clicked on that button. Not nine hundred and ninety nine, not one thousand and one. So the platform itself has a fundamental structural integrity that is lacking in every other social media application, and that’s why the blockchain is so important. There’s just one more point I’ll make on that, which is it’s also a peer to peer network, and every user who’s connected in the network, kind of like a meshnet, transmits data back and forth to each other, and shares copies of that data, which means that it’s not coming to us. So I just said to you before, when you connect on Twitter and you send a Tweet, you’re actually sending it to Twitter. Well when you send a quake on Panquake, you’re not sending it to Panquake. You’re sending it the other users of Panquake, who then participate in a process that validates that data, and then they all retain copies of that data so that they can verify they have the same data without there being that central black box repository that the data lives in. So that’s why the blockchain is so important. But, blockchain developers are not cheap. Blockchain architects and blockchain (inaudible) are not cheap. And losing all of our seed funding like (snap) that put a big hole in our plans. Now over time, we were able to recover, and like I said, the most important thing is we didn’t quit. We kept working. We kept working day and night, many times unpaid. Many times, if I’m being honest, I took my entire bank account and emptied it into the business to keep us going. I’ve had to do that several times, and I did it happily and gladly because that’s the role and responsibility of a leader in a business, to do that. But we had to beg, borrow, steal, pray on our knees, and work twenty hour days to keep the company alive, and keep the company delivering, and that’s exactly what we did. And that’s why we pivoted to doing the short URL service, and doing other projects that we knew we could complete and deliver, based off a combination of the work we’d already done building Panquake to that point, and the work that was continuing in the development of Panquake. we started designing and releasing other products in the interim, while we got established enough, and got on our feet enough to be able to pursue the completion of the Panquake blockchain.

“This is all about fundamentally rebalancing the power dynamic between the platform owners and the users of the platform because right now the platform owners have all the power, and no transparency, and no accountability. And we’re not OK with that. And so we want our userbase to be able to audit and check up on us, and what we’re doing, and the blockchain provides that level of transparency.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

FIORELLA – So Suzie, I just want to highlight the revolutionary aspect of what that means because if you can create a blockchain based platform, with no data going to Google; no data going to Meta; no data going to Elon Musk. That is, in this world, in this day and age, actually what Pasta said, revolutionary. And it is a threat, right, to the status quo. It is a threat to what controls this because Pasta and I, every day on this show, we talk about how literally people as journalists and also as geopolitical analysts, we sometimes struggle in a world where the narrative is managed. The narrative is captured. Everything is controlled, and I don’t think people pay enough attention to how we are basically being programmed to listen to certain voices. To listen to certain narratives that the majority of people have pushed on Twitter, we don’t know if they are organically pushed. Obviously, in my opinion, we do know because we’ve seen Elon Musk sort of choose these users that get seen and get, you know, heard, whereas everybody else gets spammed or gets completely shadow banned. So this would then in essence be a complete and total, I guess, a weapon for a lot of political people, for a lot of journalists, for a lot of causes that don’t really have a fair shake at the system; that don’t really have a fair way to get their ideas across. What then is, I guess, the possibility as Pasta eluded to earlier, that they would even allow something like this to happen because, as we’ve seen, you mentioned the issue in Iceland. The lawsuit in Iceland that is obviously, it’s time consuming. It’s distracting. It really created a delay in a lot of things, and now there’s an issue in New Zealand. What is the likelihood of them continuing to just endlessly throw this or that on you, and what excuses are you getting at this point, for the reasons for persecution because the way I see it, if I’m them, I would be very scared that something like this could come out.

CRAIG – Who are you pissing off back in your hometown, Suzie? What’s going on? What did you do?

SUZIE – That’s a great question. What did I do? In 2011, the Occupy movement happened, and for the first time I saw a solution to problems that had been plaguing the planet and my personal thoughts for years. Much as with Julian Assange and Wikileaks, who provided solutions to major problems, Panquake and Talk Liberation are about providing solutions to major problems. We all know what the problems are. I don’t think I need to go into that, but in moments where there is a solution, it’s really important to get behind it to give it the best chance that it has of making impact. And I don’t think that Talk Liberation and Panquake is the only solution. And I don’t want to build an everything app. I don’t want you to plug your bank account into Panquake. I don’t want to sell you a grocery shopping list, or a pair of shoes. I want to see other projects spawned around the world in a decentralized fashion that take the same ethics, the same ethos, and morals; fiber and commitment to human rights of Panquake, and bake that into their architecture, and to build communities around it because if our hopes for the social media space are pinned on Suzie Dawson, I don’t like the odds of that. I would much prefer, frankly, that Suzie Dawson could maybe inspire two or three or four or five other people with software development skills around the world to start their own projects that are interoperable. That use Open Source protocols. That maybe, one day, they can integrate their service with Panquake, and we can partner or do something together. It’s about building decentralized communities. It’s about having as many solutions as possible. It’s about dedicating your life and your time to being a part of those solutions in order to increase the likelihood that all of us are somehow going to make it out of this shit show of a planet that has been engineered for us. That’s really what it’s all about at the core. And in New Zealand, I chose to stand up and be active and try and throw my support behind movements so that we could effect change. And sometimes we were kind of successful, and sometimes we weren’t successful at all. And sometimes we did some things that were actually really significant to the culture and to the political history of my country. It’s very much a mixed bag of tricks when you’re up against an international global military industrial complex with its tentacles in every layer of society and culture. I’m hearing Ray McGovern in my head saying, “We don’t fight because we’ll win, we fight because it’s the right thing to do.” That’s what we need to do. We can’t choose the sit on our ass and do nothing option. We can’t choose the give in, or even worse, participate in the tyranny option. We have to fight because it’s the right thing to do. And I still very much believe that. And everything about my life, and where I live, and what I do, and who I do it with, and everything else is all based around the fact that I made that decision to take whatever mental resources I had, and relationships I had, and be a part of the change. Be a part of the change in the right direction. So to more directly answer your question, I’m fully aware of what these people will do to try and shutdown Panquake. I’ve been subjected to it for four years. I knew it would happen before we even started the project. And yeah, it’s gonna be ugly, and it’s probably gonna get worse. And yes, in New Zealand, the establishment do not like me because I was a truth teller. They didn’t like my journalism. They didn’t like my activism. I exposed abuses of intelligence agencies, both international intelligence agencies and national intelligence agencies in New Zealand. They punished me greatly for that. Ultimately, I had to leave my country because of it. In later years, I was pretty thoroughly vindicated when the truth came out that, sure enough, exactly what I was saying all along had been happening. And who I was saying was doing it, had in fact been doing it. Nice to have that vindication, but not nice that those people are still in positions of power to this day, and still abusing their power, and still hurting people. And fundamentally, I want my life to be about creating systems that protect people, and not that hurt people. And that’s exactly what Panquake is. It is a system that protects people, instead of hurting them, in an industry where harm is inflicted upon people every day unnecessarily.

“I don’t think that Talk Liberation and Panquake is the only solution. And I don’t want to build an everything app. I don’t want you to plug your bank account into Panquake. I don’t want to sell you a grocery shopping list, or a pair of shoes. I want to see other projects spawned around the world in a decentralized fashion that take the same ethics, the same ethos, and morals; fiber and commitment to human rights of Panquake, and bake that into their architecture, and to build communities around it.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

CRAIG – So we know now what you’ve experienced with your personal critics, right. We know people in the same circles. We’ve been close to you. Some people who still believe in you. Some people who don’t believe in you. You’ve gone through the banking issue right now, where they’re de-platforming you. Obviously, they’re doing it through a different method of, you know, seizing your funds to the tune of nine, ten months. You can’t ignore that stuff. That stuff exists, right. So I think that lends credence to what you’re trying to do because if the banking industry is trying to stop you, you must be a threat to them. You understand that the ruling class, right, I mean, your history with Wikileaks and Julian Assange and stuff. I mean, he was creating a system that was very much liberating. Where people can tell, you know, what the government is doing without, you know, knowing the person they’re talking to at times. Creating this system where it’s just all about the liberation of the way politics and what the ruling class is doing. The real meaning of the fourth Estate, as Fiorella would say, is to hold the government accountable, right. The fourth estate. That’s what real journalism’s about. That’s what it’s meant to be a journalist. You seen all this happen now in front of you. What is the immediate plan now to get this over the finish line? Because, you know, I’ve said to Fiorella, regardless of anything that happens to Suzie, whatever, yada yada yada, I don’t see the ruling class ever allowing a platform that’s gonna be open sourced, and have transparency where they can’t control the narrative. They’ll never let Suzie’s Panquake take place because they will not allow it. Simply no way, right. But we’ve seen situations, from people’s points, Pavel Durov, and, you know, Telegram, you know they snatched him up because he was also saying that he wanted to produce something with transparency. It seems like now, he’s probably given in to the ruling class. He’s gonna give them what they want, their back doors, and everything they need to get. But what do you need right now, what’s the plan for the immediate future to get this over the finish line?

SUZIE – I’m smiling because I think that Fi knows that in our organization, there’s no shortage of plans. We’re pretty thorough.

CRAIG – What would you tell the people out there the immediate plan is? They don’t get the purple and orange and the yellow out there as much as they should, right. They used to be really excited for it. They thought that Panquake would be…

SUZIE – Look. I think that a big part of that is me because to be honest with you, I didn’t even bother going back to Twitter for the last several years. I haven’t seen a single tweet. I haven’t really posted videos. I haven’t really done any interviews because I’ve been working with my development team 24/7. So that’s how I spend about twenty hours a day if I’m being honest. About twenty hours a day of my life is spent bridging three shifts, across three different time zones around the world working with UI/UX designers. Working with software engineers. Working with dev ops. Working with analysts. Working with architects. This is what I do day to day. I’m not a content creator. I respect what content creators do because I know how time consuming it is, and how much thought and effort and energy goes into it. And how tied you are to continuing that journey of being a content creator. But for me, personally, that’s not something I ever wanted to do. I didn’t even want to be a public figure. I mean, if you actually know anything about me, I did everything I could to not get on stages, to not speak at events, to not do interviews. I have avoided the public eye by every possible means, except that on occasion I’ve needed information or truth to get out to the public, and I’ve had to step up and be that person who did it. That’s why I made my documentary “Diary Of A Person Of Interest,” because I needed people to have access to that information. It’s why I did all of my journalism. I never wrote an article because, you know, I was just reporting news or whatever. I wrote articles where there was an absolute dire necessity for people to have access to information, and to know and act on information. And so, I became the conduit for passing on that information. Not out of a personal aspiration to become a journalist, but out of a fundamental need for that process to happen. And that’s how, I’m pretty sure that’s why Julian starting picking up and promoting my work way back in 2014. He saw the scraps I was having on the ground in New Zealand. He knew I was being targeted. Many people who are actually smart and actually read people’s work and consume their work were able to see what was going on there. The writing was on the wall way before I ever left New Zealand, as to what was happening. If you study my work. If you read the articles I wrote. If you watch the videos I made. If you read the architectural documentation I’ve released, and the other thing, the published work of Panquake, which is a significant body. I mean, we’ve got something like sixty updates, I think, over the last four years. If you actually consume that content, you will come to your own understanding, and your own truth about this journey, and what’s going on, and where we’re going, and the kind of level of effort and drive that we’ve given it, without me having to sell it to you. You, yourself, will discover. You’ll make the discoveries, and you’ll be able to see the writing on the wall of what’s going on and what we’re up against, and how far we’ve come despite all of that shit that’s been thrown at us, and that will continue to be thrown at us. Super smart people will do their own research. They won’t believe what some dude DM’d them on Twitter saying ‘Don’t like Suzie’. They’ll actually go, “Mmmm, I just read ‘Understanding World War III’ in 2016, where Suzie just predicted kinetic action between Russia and NATO. Oh wow, she actually was an investigative journalist with a hundred source materials in a single article, and that’s why Julian Assange was sharing her work.” They’ll work these things out for themselves. They won’t need to, you know, look at a popularity contest online to decide whether or not I have credibility. The credibility is in the work product.

CRAIG – Absolutely.

SUZIE – That’s undeniable.

“We’ve got something like sixty updates, I think, over the last four years. If you actually consume that content, you will come to your own understanding, and your own truth about this journey, and what’s going on, and where we’re going, and the kind of level of effort and drive that we’ve given it, without me having to sell it to you. You, yourself, will discover. You’ll make the discoveries, and you’ll be able to see the writing on the wall of what’s going on and what we’re up against.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

CRAIG – So the final part of that is, right now it’s we’re gonna be on hold until we take care of all these banking situations…

SUZIE – When’s Panquake coming out? Well I think there are people who oppose us that really really want to know the answer to that question. What I can tell you is that we’re getting closer and closer by the minute, which is why we just announced, like a week ago, two weeks ago, that Panquake is on a test net. So we now, for the first time, have people not just inside our organization on our team, like Fi, but people outside of our organization, now actively using Panquake daily. I can’t, unfortunately, give you a precise date as to when it will be out, but I can tell you that if you go to Panquake.comand follow the news page, you will be one of the first in the world to know. Or if you go to TalkLiberation.substack.com and follow our Substack, you will be one of the first in the world to know because you probably won’t hear about it first on Twitter.

FIORELLA – How can people try it out because you said it’s on a test net? So what is the process for certain people like journalists? Especially people who doubt, you know, you or the organization as a whole, how could somebody be like, ‘alright let’s see what you got. Let me try it out.’ Is that possible right now?

SUZIE – Actually, we have all along allowed journalists, and this is part of why even though you see smears about Panquake on social media, there’s no actual articles saying that Panquake’s a scam. And the reason for that is because journalists have always been able to contact us. They have to sign an NDA because it is commercially privileged material, but they’ve always been able, they’ve always been invited, and on many occasions we’ve done this with journalists. We’ve invited them in. We’ve shown them all our architectural documentation. We’ve shown them our code base. We’ve shown them the application, in whatever stage of development it was at at that time. We’re very happy for them to do that. So if they go to our press page on Panquake.com, click on ‘Press.’ There’s a media request form. You can reach out to us – media@talkliberation.com – and we’re happy to actually show you under the hood. We don’t mind showing good people a closer look at at what’s going on, but obviously we’re not giving it to the competition.

CRAIG – I believe what’s under the hood is great, you know what I’m saying. It’s just when is it going to be up and running, I think. And I get it, you can’t give us the exact date, but you keep moving forward, and I think that’s a great thing. And here’s the thing, Suzie, regardless of what anybody says about you or Panquake, once it’s out all bets are off. It doesn’t make a difference. Now it’s here, it’s in front of us. I can just imagine what it would be like to use an open source transparent system. I mean it would just be like – because people don’t realize what’s going on. It’s amazing. You probably haven’t been in the states in a while, and you don’t understand maybe completely because you haven’t been looking at Twitter, how much more controlled it is now today. You know what I’m saying. Now the whole Trump regime has come in – the MAGA media – and they have now kind of capitulated to the lowest informed voter out there. You know, it’s just cheerleaders, and it’s so controlled. But a lot of people aren’t talking about transparency enough because they pulled off this whole Kabuki theater act, where they made it look like just the conservatives were getting demonetized, and shadow banned, and censored. When it was always been anti-establishment has been censored. So what we’re seeing right now is so disgusting. I mean, Twitter is just awful. But there’s nothing else to use. What are you gonna do, go back to Facebook? Instagram and TikTok – it’s terrible. So I think once this gets across the finish line, and it gets out there, forget about it – it would be amazing, it would be revolutionary. So I really do hope it gets across the finish line because I know that if the banking’s fucking with you, that means it’s people behind the banking system that don’t want you up because you’re a threat to them.

FIORELLA – Yeah, and that’s kind of what I wanted to go on, Suzie. I mean, agree with what Pasta said. You know, one of the things that concerns me is, you know, you mentioned AI, and how this is kind of like a back to the future approach. It’s definitely old school in terms of how to not use AI because that’s where the world is going. I mean, we’re going into a world where we see robots on the streets now in every major country, right. In every major country you have robots on the streets. You have AI everywhere. How can we keep up by opting out of AI. That’s one of the, I think, things that I value about Talk Liberation, but at the same time makes it very susceptible to, “Oh well, they don’t have AI. They don’t have this, so they’re not going to be able to keep up.” What is the alternative if we’re already headed into a world controlled by multiple AI’s. We got the Deep Seek. We got Chatbot AI. What’s the other one Pasta? I forget. There’s the AI from X…

CRAIG – ChatGPT…

FIORELLA – ChatGPT – yeah that one…Google…all these…

“At the moment, they’ve got businesses spending enormous amounts of money on subscriptions to AI that, in the warranty, says this is an experiment. A research experiment under development, and therefore, we take no liability for the actual real world impacts of what this does to your business, your staff, your workflows, your sales, your customers. I think it’s a matter of seconds, if it’s not happening already, where AI integrated into businesses actually starts to systematically sink those businesses, and put them under.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

CRAIG – Grok. Is Grok one too? I think we sense, Fiorella. We’re like three movies before the original Matrix comes out, where the humans are using the AI for bad before it starts to turn on them, rather than using the AI for good. They’re using it as a security weapon, a spying weapon. The data collection. It’s not just about getting your data so they can us it and sell it, but it’s also about flagging those out there they know are gonna be bad, Suzie. You’re one of them.

SUZIE – I think AI is a giant experiment on users, and I don’t think that they actually know what they’re going to get out of the AI in many cases. And I don’t think that AI in software is producing a better user experience. And it’s not producing better business outcomes. At the moment, they’ve got businesses spending enormous amounts of money on subscriptions to AI that, in the warranty, says this is an experiment. A research experiment under development, and therefore, we take no liability for the actual real world impacts of what this does to your business, your staff, your workflows, your sales, your customers. I think it’s a matter of seconds, if it’s not happening already, where AI integrated into businesses actually starts to systematically sink those businesses, and put them under. And I think that we are headed towards a moment similar to the first dot com bubble, where this AI investment of companies all around the world, because when we are talking about AI investment, we think about the top level of it. Of hundreds of billions getting invested in these big companies. But we don’t think about the people who are paying a thousand dollars a month for their little AI agent that’s been marketed to them as the future of their business, and therefore, they should do it. Or ten thousand a month, or a hundred thousand a month that they’re paying for it. I think that it’s going to sink a lot of businesses. I think that a few leaders will emerge out of that, such as happened with the dot com bubble, but there will be widespread economic disruption in the commercial sense because of it. And I think that businesses who are biding their time, and waiting before integrating AI into their systems, are going to come out of this way better than ones that are diving straight in and trying to replace their work force because the AI is not up to the job of replacing the work force. There are some things that it may be useful for, but it can also produce really unpredictable outcomes. And in some cases, really damaging outcomes, as we’ve been doing a lot of reporting on in our Talk Liberation Substack about actually. In terms of AI in social media, I don’t see any benefit other than as a cost cutting exercise for content moderation practices, and we don’t want our business to automate our decision making around moderation. We actually want to have humans providing customer service, not AI agents. We want to have humans performing content moderation, not AI agents. And we think that we’ll get better outcomes from that. We think we’ll have better relationships with our subscribers because of it. And we think we’ll have a better reputation and integrity from having more old school systems in place. I can’t think of any, actually, person that I’ve ever talked to about AI who said that they would use one social network over another because that social network has AI. It’s not about the users, and it should be about the users. It should be about the user outcomes. That’s my personal opinion.

FIORELLA – Yeah. Well, you know, the younger generations are so ingrained in it that they’ve actually just sort of just given themselves to it. You know, I’m a big – I don’t know if you know this, Suzie about me, but I’m a huge Sci-fi nerd. I watch as much post apocalyptic, dystopian, Sci-fi, read it…

CRAIG – That’s not the only nerd she is…

“In terms of AI in social media, I don’t see any benefit other than as a cost cutting exercise for content moderation practices, and we don’t want our business to automate our decision making around moderation. We actually want to have humans providing customer service, not AI agents. We want to have humans performing content moderation, not AI agents. And we think that we’ll get better outcomes from that. We think we’ll have better relationships with our subscribers because of it.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

FIORELLA – The more I can get my hands on it…everything from Star Wars… everything… West World actually was really good. It basically became about the robots taking over through and creating an alternative world where they basically data mined people who thought they were just getting a free vacation, but they were actually data mining everybody and using that information to create more robots, and to control people essentially. To put all that data in a giant computer and control people. And the reason I love that kind of stuff is because I feel like a lot of the arts kind of represent where we’re going. A lot of that reflects where we are and where we’re going. And I see it in a very very scary way. I see a lot of things that are on, like, Black Mirror. That are on a lot of these Sci-fi shows essentially becoming a reality. And I don’t think enough people are paying attention to what the surveillance state is and what it’s doing. We’ve seen it, for example, with Israel having, working with Microsoft to target Palestinians in Gaza. We have seen how we’re watching the drone attacks, the telephones being hacked. All of this happening. This is the reality that we’re facing, and if there is some sort of solace, it’s like the alternative is to opt out. Now it’s no secret that you live in Russia. And living in Russia, for anybody that’s any sort of dissident, or anybody that has a different political opinion, labels you some sort of, you know, Putin bot. Some sort of Russian Kremlin agent that receives, you know, millions and millions and billions of Rubles because the Russians tell you what to say and do. And as someone that is in Moscow as well, I’ve been thrown all sorts of things about what I think, and what I believe, even though I had very similar political beliefs years before I was even here. And that doesn’t matter. You get labeled some sort of Putin bot. What led you to choose Russia, and are you in any way what so ever getting money from the Russian government. I have to ask that because this is a usual thing.

CRAIG – Does Putin pay you in vodka, Suzie? Let us know. (joking)

SUZIE – I love that you ask that question. I love that you ask that question. No, I’ve never met Putin. I don’t live in one of his palaces. I’ve been here…believe it or not…

CRAIG – (inaudible) Lavrov…(inaudible) Lavrov…don’t lie! (joking)

SUZIE – I thought I’d just clarify. Two weeks ago, I was asked in a compliance meeting with an international business supplier, if I had a Russian oligarch husband. (laughing)

CRAIG – A-ha!

FIORELLA – Do you Suzie, do you?

SUZIE – The funny part…I’ll tell you what, the funny part about that after I said, “what!?” The funny part about that was I thought to myself, “Oh my god that sounds time consuming.” Imagine how time consuming it would be to have an oligarch husband. That would be like hours and hours and hours a day. I’m going, how do I fit that in my schedule? Like seriously! How do I service…

CRAIG – You didn’t think, wow, that would be nice and relaxing. A Russian oligarch husband. I could just kick back and, you know…

SUZIE – How do I service an oligarch husband on my schedule? I can not do it. It’s not doable. So no, I’ve never even dated a single Russian, let alone married one.

CRAIG – Who wants to date a Russian?

SUZIE – I’m getting there… I’ve been here for ten years, and I have never earned a single ruble. Or charged or billed a single ruble. Or received a single ruble at all. In fact, when I applied for asylum here, there’s literally a box on the form that says, ‘would you like to receive 8,000 rubles’ – I think it was at the time – a month of state assistance that’s provided to asylum seekers. And I literally ticked the box that said no, and I didn’t even accept that. So I’ve never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever taken any money from anybody in Russia the whole time I’ve lived here. A hundred percent of my income is earned outside of Russia. And actually, I declare my tax, and pay my tax in New Zealand. And I pay substantial amounts of tax in New Zealand, where I am a business owner, and a New Zealand tax resident, and a New Zealand citizen. And I have been banking with the New Zealand state bank for twenty five years. And in March of this year, they sent me a letter and said we’re closing all of your accounts. Your personal and your business accounts. And I said, “why are you doing that?” And they said, “we can’t tell you. We’re not going to be telling you that.” I just think after twenty five years…my accounts are in credit. I don’t owe them anything. I have no debt. I have no credit card. No overdraft. No mortgage, no whatever. They just shut all of my accounts. And I’ve actually been going through a process now, because to be honest with you I’m going to sue the shit out of them too. I’ve decided that I’m not taking any prisoners. If you want to take law abiding citizens, you want to violate their rights across the board, we’re going to court. And we’re doing that in Iceland, and we’re going to end up doing that in New Zealand as well, quite frankly, because it’s just completely not OK what’s going on. And so I’ve actually got some disclosure documents from the bank through the banking Ombudsman’s office in New Zealand, which is how you can achieve some level – some level I will reiterate – of recourse when you are having issues with the banks. And in those disclosure documents, lo and behold, it actually says: ‘Do not tell Suzie why her bank accounts are being shut down.” It was literally pre-meditated that they wouldn’t give me a reason. And now, it seems that the reason is, or the reason that they are claiming, is that it was a change in bank policy, their general policy which has led to me being de-banked in New Zealand. But there is no grounds for it. There’s no grounds whatsoever. I don’t violate sanctions. I haven’t committed a crime. I have no criminal record or history, or anything like that. So it’s not OK. I will just answer why I chose Russia. I didn’t really choose Russia. I just chose not to be persecuted in my daily life. And in New Zealand, that was a daily reality. And I tried, actually, first to go to Germany, not to go to Russia at all. But in Germany, I was experiencing the same types of targeted harassment, stalking, interference in everything that I did. I was not able to live peacefully at all. My children, as well, were being impacted by it. And we visited Russia. And for the first time in four or five years at that point, all of a sudden, I was not being targeted. I was not being harassed. I was not being stalked. I was actually to be able to just live a normal life peacefully. And I’ve been to other non-NATO countries, and it’s pretty much the same deal. But in NATO countries, I’m on the shit list, and that’s rather unpleasant, unfortunately.

CRAIG – We know it’s not a New Zealand oligarch that you’re married to as well, because they wouldn’t have taken down your bank because he would’ve been able to protect you. So that kind of eliminated my other question. Fam, should we just wrap this up, and ask one final question to Suzie about how we can support, or take a look, or what she wants people to do. What actions she wants to take, or?

“I’m firmly of the belief that once people are using Panquake… once they have the experience of using Panquake, we’re not going to need a sales and marketing team. People are going to connect to each other by word of mouth. And they’re going to spiral it. And they’re going to use it. And they’re going to adopt it.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

FIORELLA – Yeah, so Suzie just to, you know, wrap it up, I mean, I think there’s a lot at stake here, not just for you, but for a lot of people, and I think you know that. A lot of people would benefit from Panquake being released as soon as possible. Also, a lot of people have a lot of stock interested in that not happening. I have tested it, and I have seen what it is. And one of the words I used when I first saw it was this is revolutionary. And it would benefit a lot of dissident journalists. It would benefit a lot of people. But my next question is because of everything going on. You know, you’re not the type of person to give up, but there’s so much being thrown at you. A lot of these accusations, not just from people in the establishment, but people in the anti establishment. A lot just coming from every which way. And I know as somebody that likes nuance in discussions. Sometimes I get accused of things by opposing team, so you end up pretty much, you know, fighting, I guess, a war on multiple fronts, right. I think it’s important to address where Panquake, where Talk Liberation in general, right, the company itself, is going. And anything that you would like people to know. Both supporters, and perhaps, those that don’t support you.

SUZIE – That’s an interesting question for me, because I don’t spend very much time thinking about it to be honest with you. We have the luxury now of being at the point where we have a marketing team whose job it is, they’re responsible for actually marketing the product. And marketing is not something that I ever really wanted to do. And sales isn’t even something that I wanted to do. And I know this is a super unorthodox answer because I know I’m supposed to get on and sell, sell, sell and market, market, market, but actually I don’t really feel like that’s my job. My job is actually just to work with the devs and deliver the product. And that’s what’s going to happen, regardless of whether people like us or don’t like us. And I’m firmly of the belief that once people are using Panquake, as Pasta said, actually, once they have the experience of using Panquake, we’re not going to need a sales and marketing team. People are going to connect to each other by word of mouth. And they’re going to spiral it. And they’re going to use it. And they’re going to adopt it, whether or not people like Suzie Dawson. I mean, who cares who likes Suzie Dawson or not. You know me well, Fi. I’ve got a really small circle in my life. My life is completely centered around my kids and my team. I don’t live the life of a socialite. I don’t try and rub shoulders with, you know, powerful people. I don’t try and…to me, it’s a very immature, kind of high school thing – the whole popularity contest and what not. I don’t care how many followers I have on Twitter. I don’t aspire to being an Elon Musk. I look at someone like Elon Musk, or, you know other, I won’t name other platform owners, but I look at them, and I don’t want to live my life like they live their life. I don’t want to have the things they have. I don’t want to run my business the way they run their business. I don’t want to be them.

CRAIG – Yeah.

SUZIE – I know for a fact, one hundred percent for a fact, the true reasons that Elon bought Twitter. I knew them before he bought Twitter. And they had absolutely nothing to do with free speech at all.

CRAIG – Yeah.

“I don’t care how many followers I have on Twitter. I don’t aspire to being an Elon Musk. I look at someone like Elon Musk, or, you know other, I won’t name other platform owners, but I look at them, and I don’t want to live my life like they live their life. I don’t want to have the things they have. I don’t want to run my business the way they run their business. I don’t want to be them.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

SUZIE – He had very specific, very personal reasons, that suited him personally why he wanted to buy Twitter. I won’t go further than that. Those are not the motivations that I have for Panquake. I don’t care if I ever have a million followers on Panquake, or ten million. I don’t care if I don’t even have a Panquake account. But I do care that I deliver Panquake. And I do care that people get to use Panquake. And so, for me, it’s all about motivations, right. If I could live happily and peacefully with my kids, I will be over the frigging moon. If I could live with my dogs and work with my team, that’s awesome. It doesn’t need to be more than that. And so, I hear people saying there’s criticism, but it kind of just runs off my back, because I don’t need for people to love me. I don’t need to be cool. I’m never going to have a Wikipedia page that says I’m a great person. I’ve know that all along. You can’t do what I do and have a good Wikipedia page.

FIORELLA – I don’t think any of us will.

SUZIE – People will not give me software development awards, no matter how amazing the software is that I build. I saw that in New Zealand. In New Zealand I created hashtags for movements that outperformed the commercial hashtags in New Zealand a hundred to one. And then there would be the social media awards in New Zealand, and they would trot out someone as being the most effective campaign of the year, and they had one percent of our metrics. The whole system is rigged. I’m not in it for the superficial stuff.

CRAIG – Well Suzie, let me say this much, you may not be in it for the superficial stuff, and you don’t want to live like other tech programmers do, but I would like to live like Pavel Durov. Dating supermodels, and flying all around the world and eating fun stuff.

SUZIE – Maybe we should make you CEO.

“Build solutions. Don’t just watch the problems. Build solutions.” – Suzie Dawson, Talk Liberation Founder

CRAIG – I’ll take it, right Yeah, I’ll be your face, there you go. I have something that, I don’t know, you know what I’m saying, you ladies both of you are very forward, very candid, right, you know what I’m saying, like that. Fiorella always gets on me for my fluff, for my schmoozing abilities. But, you know, that’s what the majority of the world wants. They want to be schmoozed. They want to go to a nice restaurant and be treated well. Not Suzie Dawson, boys and girls, by the way.

SUZIE – You definitely are super congenial.

CRAIG – Well, thank you, I appreciate it. And I appreciate that Suzie Dawson is not only taking on Big Tech, she’s taking on Big Tick. She loves dogs. We’re gonna get this guys. Thank you so much for joining us today, Suzie. And Fi, I look forward to reading a lot more of your articles. The ones we were looking about, talking about this. Regardless of any relationships, there’s still a lot of, I think, a movement where people are having conversations about data mining, AI. Where we’re going. They’re just being censored and suppressed, so just like what you’re trying to bring to the table, I think we still should continue to highlight those voices who are talking in those areas. So thank you again for coming on today, Suzie. And good luck with everything, by the way.

SUZIE – My last two words: build solutions. Don’t just watch the problems. Build solutions.

FIORELLA – We need that pragmatic, practical approach too, because we all know the problems. Yeah – there’s a lot of them. So we need something to help us. All of us here on that side. So that’s it everybody. Thanks so much for tuning it today. Make sure to follow and like and share, in case you haven’t. And Pasta, are you going to say your line that you always say that I hate?

CRAIG – No. I’m not gonna say truth out.

FIORELLA – Bye everybody.

[End of transcript]

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