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  1. A very interesting and insightful article. And probably an accurate summation of the trend. It may or may not be fully reflected i the 2023 election, but ultimately change of this nature will occur, irrespective of which major party leads the government.

    There is a sense of an unstoppable force, both on the nature of governance, but also climate change policy. You only have to read comments on conservative blogs, notably Kiwiblog, to understand the hard right know they have lost the argument against climate change. Their refuge is to retreat deeper into denialism.

    1. Actually the climate change denialists are more of a function of age and traditional status, rather than being hard right in an ideological sense. Many of the commenters on Kiwiblog are older, typically retired. Quite a number of them note that their children and grandchildren have a different view on climate change issues. They usually accuse their children and grandchildren of being swept up by a trend and are ignoring “real” science. Of course they don’t think climatologists are real scientists, so they quite comfortable in ignoring them. However, you do get the sense they know they have lost the argument, and that power has moved away from them.
      Anyone remotely interested in politics knows, at least as far as New Zealand is concerned, political power has irrevocably moved away from the baby boomers. Though not yet in the United States, though surely that is only 4 or 6 years away.

  2. Trouble is there is no co governance in the treaty.

    But there is the promise of equal rights.
    Removing the very basis of a democracy – one person one vote, unmandated is wrong and should be criminal-in fact it’s actively working against the principle of equal rights which IS enshrined in the treaty.

    1. I don’t think you would find a legal point of view that agreed with you in terms of what obligations are under the treaty. The one person one vote line is probably not based on reality either.

    2. “Trouble is there is no co governance in the treaty”.. There doesn’t need to be.. It is a philosophical shift rather than a line by line enactment that is being mooted..
      Did you honestly think that people who would pull the “bait and switch” on a whole race of people would have been stupid enough to give them any contestable stake in their power base? Seriously?
      Your point is a purely bureaucratic one…

    3. If a person or group is deemed to have a right to something, then a majority, even if they don’t like it, cannot really contravene that right. That seems implicit in the meaning of the term “right”. So democracy is irrelevant in that context.

  3. Probably not the game changer Labour want you to believe, actually, the one they tried so hard to hide! McAnulty let the cat out of the bag, he and his government have abandoned one person one vote. Don’t recall them campaigning on that? Wonder why?

    But I’m sure PW Botha used to wax lyrical on a special South African type democracy too!

    Sorry to disagree but for all it’s faults and that we all don’t always get what we want, one person one vote is far superior to anything else going, bar none! Especially something as vague as this “kiwi” styles thing.

  4. The Political Review–Bruce Jesson’s old Banner that Chris took over. Those were the days when political debate could take weeks or months rather than milli–seconds online. The voracious pace of todays politics can lead to hair trigger responses rather than reflection and dialectical thought.

    Generational differences are indeed plausible with Kieran McAnulty. My son was schooled in the Far North with a large Māori student quotient, and in his adult city life has only a handful of Pākehā friends, most of his circle being Korean, Rarotongan, Chinese & Māori. The world is different for new gens, numbers of whom have only known a digital world.

    For his next trick perhaps Mr McAnulty could turn his attention to retiring Roger‘n’Ruth’s toxic legacy and discuss that in plain talk…

    1. A small correction, TG.

      NZ Political Review was founded in 1992 by myself and my Dad. It was published for 14 years – coming to an end in 2005.

      In 1996, NZPR joined forces with Bruce Jesson’s “Republican” – a brief collaboration that lasted until Bruce’s death in 1999.

      NZPR was always my banner, comrade. It was the Republican that got taken over 😉

      1. Jolly good. Best to get such things correct. The mists of time…unless you manage to file everything of course.

  5. Having John Tamihere utter abject and inflammatory nonsense about there being no need for co-governance in water management because Maori own 100% of the water will not help matters. A storm is upon us indeed.

  6. Probably not the game changer Labour want you to believe, actually, the one they tried so hard to hide! McAnulty let the cat out of the bag, he and his government have abandoned one person one vote. Don’t recall them campaigning on that? Wonder why?

    But I’m sure PW Botha used to wax lyrical on a special South African type democracy too!

    Sorry to disagree but for all it’s faults and that we all don’t always get what we want, one person one vote is far superior to anything else going, bar none! Especially something as vague as this “kiwi” styles thing.

  7. Well, at least we’re starting to talk about co-governance, for the last 2 years its been taboo. But this article Chris shows we’ve got a long way to go. Because of the ills you listed such as busted unions and low home ownership levels, could you cite any actual evidence that young people prefer some other form of government in response? Any when you say another form of democracy, let’s be clear, co-governance isn’t democracy. Just about anyone’s definition of co-governance is one person one vote. A system that gives, lets be honest 8% of the population 50% of the say (because not all Maori are going to sign up to this), just isn’t democracy anymore.

    And what about the many checks and balances we’ll need to ensure this skewing does not get misused, beyond vague assurances. Because at the end of the day, the tyranny of the majority will always be preferable to its corollary, the tyranny of the minority. But square that circle Chris and you’ve got me on board.

  8. A ‘new democracy’ isn’t democracy though, it’s a direct flight to hell

    The concept of one person, one vote works. It might not be perfect but it is without question the least bad option

    Shared management of resources such as the Ureweras as outlined by Ben Thomas James sense to a point. The burning of his there hasn’t pointed towards it working for all New Zealanders.

    How that idea can then be applied to John Tamahere’s Stuff article that Maori own all the water and therefore by default all the infrastructure I’m not sure.

    What does seem to be clear though is that there isn’t anywhere that I know of where a society based on one group having a greater say in affairs due to ethnicity or any other criteria has been more successful than a democracy based on the fundamental principal of one person one vote

  9. It is a game changer that Kieran is saying the quiet bit out loud.

    The polls will show whether you’re right Chris. For this country’s sake, I hope you are wrong.

    1. I guess we take from your comment Matt that you want us to continue on the enviromentally destructive path we are on.

      1. Why on earth would you think that?

        It always strikes me as bizarre how quick people seem to be these days to ignore a point and assume that because someone is making it they must believe something else that is unrelated. Pretty much everyone agrees water infrastructure is stuffed in a lot of places in NZ and that it needs to be fixed. Some people apparently think that doing so requires both a loss of local control and an abandonment of democracy.

        Alternative structures that would achieve substantively the same aim without losing local control exist and would be just as cheap if not cheaper. Alternative structures that lose local control but don’t abandon democracy exist. And would be as cheap if not cheaper.

        Try your best to discuss political matters in good faith… when you assume, you make an ass out of U

        1. I am well past believing local councils are capable of delivering on our water problems.
          The belief that ‘democracy’ achieves sustainable outcomes for infrastructure is clearly not supported by the current state of our water, transport, or many other services, so I would welcome Iwi representation, as promised by the Treaty, in decision making.

      1. You want to regress to a state where someone’s political power is a function of the consequences of their birth?

        Do you place no value on universal human rights or the principles of the enlightenment?

          1. It is literally regression regardless of whether the polls show it or not. Someone’s level of political power and participation being a function of their sociodemographic group is the oldest form of human social organization. The long arc of history curves away from that and towards egalitarian democracy as society gets less racist, sexist and classist. We reached equality in political rights for all groups in the 20th century, and have been reaching equality in social rights in the 21st (i.e trans rights).

            Apparently ‘progressives’ now want to regress and treat people not based on the content of their character, but the colour of their skin.

          2. We are no where near an ‘egalitarian democracy’; with political parties getting huge donations from business interests and overseas ownership of many strategic assets, such a utopian world is not going to happen. We do not have your ‘equality in political rights’, as obvious from our statistics, that you claim.

  10. “Could the Māori make a worse job of looking after Aotearoa than Pakeha democracy? Could co-governance with mana whenua be any worse than co-governance with capitalists?”

    Of course they could get worse. It is a big assumption to believe that many Iwi corporations are not driven by the same Neo-liberal & capitalistic forces that drives the rest of New Zealand. That Maori leaders are not susceptible to the same corruption that infects Pakeha politicians? Donations, bribes or koha? That there isn’t the same desire to just clip the ticket? To add layers of bureaucracy & tribal consultation, that delays or halts projects, unless sufficiently “oiled”? Things are definitely getting worse, but if you think this is the solution, then I suspect that you don’t understand humans or the power of Neo-liberalism.

  11. Co-governance is not a Maori governance system rather it’s a neo liberal attempt at equity. We’d be better off focusing on equality – lifting Maori as a whole from poverty, from perpetually renting, from being at the wrong end of so many stats and then you would not need co-governance, a foot up; it would instead be a level playing field.

    1. Co governance is a myth picked up on by the right and driven by business leaders and right wing media.
      Evidence…John Keys National government of 9 years in coalition, thus co governance with the Maori party. End of story.

  12. So repression under capitalism or repression under the treaty.
    Hardly seems worth bothering about…

  13. Hope he’s right. A lot of anti-Maori discourse on r-wing sites like Muriel Newman’s New Zealand Centre for Political Research and Bassett Brash and Hide – but possibly the same people? Called out MN’s lot for being racist whingers (whingeing about number of Maori nominations for the Ockhams, would you believe…), and was blocked. (Saw CT was on their Breaking News blog recently.) Then Muriel Newman parachuted into Bassett Brash and Hide. Had to move from there before I was pushed….

  14. All the oldies I know don’t care who runs the country. I think they are quite happy to vote for a co-governance framework and see how it unfolds for better or worse. They are prepared to at least give it a go.
    In the past they have seen all types of politicians and parties come and go plus install huge experimental changes to society and politics.

  15. Co-governance with mana whenua? What proportion of the Maori in Auckland are mana whenua in Auckland?

  16. I scrolled this far and decided, save for highlighting this gem of a quote; “Could co-governance with mana whenua be any worse than co-governance with capitalists?” this posting doesn’t need my input.

  17. I’m reminded of Shadbolts concrete mixer named Karl Marx. It apparently worked well in theory.

    Co – governance may sound fine but the devil is in the detail. I’m not going to stand in its way, but I hope that the future governance of Aotearoa is for all Aotearoans. I don’t wish us to replace the tyranny of colonial institutions that favour a pakeha elite with further divisiveness. We are now a multi ethnic and cultural country, this offers us a chance to create a better, more inclusive nation.

  18. So Labour sort of finally fronting up around 2 years after introducing 3 waters is to be lauded? Painted into a corner and purposeful tactic to postpone til as close to the election as poss.

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