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  1. I don’t think this can be debate because our words are not evidence. I think we could reasonably say that flues effect humans most during winter so I think we could reasonably say that given our best efforts the amount of hospitalisations due to corona will rise by a 1/4 or a 1/3. Even if there was a vaccine flues attack our immune system which increases the likeliness some other pre existing illness might get us.

    There’s still a lot we still don’t know about corona. Even our best efforts won’t give us the happy outcome certain people are forecasting. It’s a mistake to assume that individual achievement can succeed during a pandemic because in bubbles there is a physical hight and width to a bubble and if people hyperventilate to much in there bubbles they may sophicate. I’m not joking the mental health crises is just a real as the corona crises. In the last 3 months on the Daily Blog alone there’ve been some dark comments I’m sure everyone has seen. The idea that there is no society no longer holds water. So if we move as a nation and adhere to the scientific advice we can claw back our lost rights.

    1. on one side you have Trump (he who sggested injecting disinfectant ) and Dr Butter (he who has been before Medical board for bad practice and is an anti vaxer ) on the other side Fauci and WHO ki rest my case.

      1. He never said that! He was referring too UV therapy! which they use on cancer patients and NEVER used the word “bleach” but you keep believing the bs mate

  2. Jacinda has returned to the neoliberal flock obviously.
    You are so right Martyn when you said; “Spending billions on trying to rebuild ‘normal’ is fucking absurd when the market ‘normal’ was what made this pandemic erupt in the first place.”

    Jacinda is blowing her one and only chance of being a global leader of ‘transformative change to a ‘cleaner, more respectful, style of Governence’ sadly.

    So much for her “Generations Nuclear moment” eh, as it was just cheap words.

    1. Cleangreen – Well, of course. Today we see the Health Minister, David Clark, doing his own thing once again, while the rest of us poor plebs have been doing our best to function as responsible human beings – and sometimes inconvenienced almost to the point of tears.

      I am incredibly pissed off with David – and myself. Trouble is, I saw this empty-headed idiot as another erudite learned Lloyd Geering, and it is now as plain as a pike staff that Geering was the last good Presbyterian.

      Clark should be booted out of Parliament, and I daresay that the church is as good a place as any for knaves who opt for a different reality from the rest of us – whom he has the nerve to profess to represent.

      Same old. Same old. In fiction, party members act for the good of the party too, but in real life there’s them that just act for themselves, and that’s it.

  3. So yesterday I commented that the constant reposting of Nigel Latta’s tweet seems nasty and pointless, and my comment never got posted – is that what will happen again today?

    1. There’s no specific way to react to the Wuhan virus and one thing Iv noticed about lefties-kiwi-style is there’s a tendency to see change coming but change is always a precursor to bigger problems either mental health issues or the assumption is we don’t handle change very well. How people deal with change is how people make sense of the cultural changes and there are people who live on the brink of disaster like Mr Nigel and so do we,. People who comment here I mean we go really deep into the Internet to find answers, and so we exist in this community where all these threats make sense to us and so how people deal with this change is culturaly specific.

      I guess Nigel kind of see’s this change as something that can be this idea that could stop the world and get off and live in the moment which is impossible like if you think about time I mean where is the moment because it’s time that’s already passed because time is always moving. And now we live in a time where change is as Iv said is a precursor to something bad so we just sort of want to stop the world and get off, or freeze history so no one gets hurt indefinitely. The past is not the present and the present is not the future.

      I think Nigel’s sudden change from outlook is a sudden loss of his future focused thinking and the lose of the utopia and the lose of any sense that society as a group can create a better New Zealand together that is better than today (and I’m saying even if some is truly racist like Don Brash he still requires the standard minimum healthcare not just because of today or because of yesterday but because it makes the future safer). Now I know Nigel is a smart man and he does plenty of good work but look at how the change was so severe that it caught Nigel up in a storm of fear and violence and it appears the destruction that progress intended to bring has to stop but we can’t. Stopping the Wuhan virus is not an option I mean we can suppress communicable disease into manageable levels with a vaccine but it’s impossible to engineer the dangers out of Mother Nature.

      As Marx once said “it is ridiculous to long for that original fullness as it is to imagine with this complete emptiness all history has come to a stand still.”

      We can’t stop the change because we can’t control history but what we can do is try and control the change and bring it to somewhere good and we can fight these evil forces together as a group by having a more optimistic understanding.

    2. Well Aaron at least it makes a change from “was dem evil chinee what done it”.

      1. Wait what? No. Beijing has things to answer for. When this outbreak first hit the headlines Beijing was saying the virus can’t be transmitted human to human and subsequent CIA leaks say they did know because the CIA was trying to warn Trump. So China has been running propoganda from the beginning and so has America. So Yknow we are going to have to appreciate how delicate this all is.

  4. Politics. Watching David Seymour still pontificating on how the market is better than government intervention. With his new perm haircut he looks and sounds like that Houston televangellist scammer, Joel Osteen

    1. Indeed, Rodel. And notice how this free market purist has never, ever criticised the government for handing out taxpayer’s money to prop up private businesses? No, neither have I.

  5. Agree with you for the most part, M.Bradbury, but I think your being a little melodramatic. Its interesting how fast nature reclaims its own…like Chernobyl, and the huge influx of wildlife there after people buggered off, so we have the same with fur seals invading the yellow eyed penguin colony’s because people aren’t around to bugger things up !…

    Nature in action !

    Sure we are screwing things up, but take us out of the picture and nature heals, – and heals fast.

    ————————-

    ”The foundations of the 35 year neoliberal experiment in NZ have been exposed an found to be cracked to their core, with the climate crisis demanding a radical change, this pandemic is the perfect time to challenge the religious orthodoxy of free market dogma”…

    ———————–

    One thing at a time.We are dealing with a pandemic. To extrapolate climate change in the mix is a little ambitious, don’t you think? Sure it makes good headlines but right now the globe and NZ is reeling from the lockdown , covid, and the coming economic collapse of neo liberalism. And may peoples livelihoods. My point is that much of climate change issues will be dealt with in dealing with neo liberalism.

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    ”This pandemic has highlighted that when existential extremes occur to us as a civilisation, we immediately look to the state for protection, so let’s just dump the whole free market neoliberal bullshit shall we?”

    ————————-

    Well said and I concur with this. I like ‘big government’. Small government plays into the hands of the pirates- like neo liberals who essentially downgrade a nations infrastructure everywhere they go. And always will seek to do so as they wish to destroy it to eventually purchase it for a song and then raise prices. Its called a monopoly.

    The melting of ice caps and the plight of polar bear and grizzly bears turning into Pizzly bears is of lesser concern than the plight of the working poor and their immediate future as well as small business owners. That’s just the way humans are wired. Self survival. I am also glad ”the shock waves of which are fracturing the free market certainties the hegemonic economic framework has been built upon” are crumbling,…it is about time too.

    ”Spending billions on trying to rebuild ‘normal’ is another curiosity… why do it? and who are the major recipients and why? Is the plight of the unemployed, the working poor going to be uplifted with all these ‘ Too Big to Fail’ types??? I think not. Yet we are the majority. Is this democracy? Why do they get to survive , – and survive well, – when we get to starve, lose economic security and suffer societal breakdown?

    —————————–

    ”Destruction of natural biospheres alongside jowl to cheek over population and global trade exacerbated this pandemic but the climate crisis will make these 1 in a 100 year events become 1 every 10 years”…

    —————————-

    And while there’s no doubt about Destruction of Natural Biospheres occurring at an unsustainable rate ( often due to neo liberalism’s ‘capitalism on steroids’ ) I refuse to be that broad sweeping. I find it hard to buy into the theme that this is purely a naturally occurring situation. When you have America investing for the last 10 years in an infectious diseases lab in Wuhan, China and specifically to research coronavirus sp. with last years funding being 3.7 million dollars, I SMELL A RAT. And particularly when Chinese scientists traveled 1000 KM’S to caves to trap then research an obscure form of bat,… one must ask , – WHAT THE HELL IS AN AMERICAN COMPANY FUNDING A CHINESE INFECTIOUS DISEASES LAB TO RESEARCH CORONAVIRUS DOING IN THE FIRST PLACE???

    And how far is the infectious diseases lab from the wet market in WUHAN? – a mere 20 km’s away.

    Isn’t America supposed to be all up in arms about Chinese military bases in the South China seas?

    Or is it more a ‘deep state’ counter movement to cause popular western resentment against China and to recreate a new cold war while at the same time to resetting the Western economy- perhaps edging it evermore towards a cashless one?

    If you think we are under a surveillance society now, – then wait til the day the cashless society arrives, – you wont even be able to sneeze without the govt knowing about it.

    I agree with almost all of your suggestions, but trying to weave geopolitics in with the destruction of neo liberalism and global climate change all at the same time for the little people who are grappling with the immediate fallout of an economic collapse just might be frying peoples brains, esp as they are coping with economic destruction, family issues, economic insecurity in an uncertain future just might be a tad too much.

    Back to human nature , when the chips are down we seek self survival. Survival for us, and survival for our family’s.

    Ice caps, grizzly ears and polar bears come a poor second.

    And its not about pitting generation X, Y , and Z against boomers, – I suspect, – its more about focusing the battle against neo liberalism if you really want to see effective climate action. Knock that out, and you’ve got a free run home. Don’t knock it out, – and you can just expect more of the same.

    Less ice caps and more pizzly’s.

  6. After all the coffers are bled dry on frivolous projects in a mad pursuit of back to normal, the new feudalism will make the old neoliberalism look tame.

  7. Smiling Assasain, Former PM turned house flipper, John Key is replacing Don Brash in being NZ’s grizzled irrelevant zombie commentator it seems. I guess he hasn’t come to terms how irrelevant he is. The UN didn’t come calling but maybe ‘The Block’ will!

    ‘Crucially important’: Sir John Key calls on Govt to allow more businesses to operate in lockdown
    Former PM John Key praises Christopher Luxon as National leader Simon Bridges faces backlash
    https://www.google.com/url?client=internal-element-cse&cx=006730714154542492986:oh6vl0ybuqy&q=https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/121284015/sir-john-key-buys-waterfront-sydney-pad-and-lists-it-next-day&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjmw7m3_ovpAhVsyjgGHY5bDhoQFjAAegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw0ap1lU8EA9wqircv-gxdiM

    1. Who would trust a liar and thief. Perhaps another of the hair pulling kind.

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