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  1. Your intellectual snobbery is on full display here Mr Trotter. You say “That not everyone was willing to follow the science and put the interests of ordinary New Zealanders ahead of the demands of business lobbyists and pundits convinced they knew more than the experts, was clearly a comfort to Roughan.”

    The problem with that statement is the blind adherence to the science that the government of the day chose to follow. Science is a continuum where theories and hypotheses are tested with empirical rigour then adjusted as further evidence unfolds. We have seen that with many aspects of the Covid responses overseas but less so in New Zealand. There was, and is, plenty of evidence in the prestigious medical journals of growing concerns regarding the mRNA vaccines. There was considerable evidence via Israel and the UK of the very short window of efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine mid-2021 and its lack of impact on transmissibility, an inconvenient fact the Government chose to ignore when implementing the mandates and vaccine passes the protestors were so exorcised about.

    That mainstream medical journals such as JAMA, Circulation and the BMJ are now publishing articles demonstrating the alarming link between the mRNA vaccines and heart damage in the young at a rate that would normally be enough for regulatory bodies to suspend or withdraw said products from the market entirely.

    The Government ignored the WHO on the use of lockdowns, ignored the MoH regarding vaccine passes and mandates outside of frontline healthcare and is mute on the very real figures around vaccine safety.

    Those whose lives have been ripped apart by this government overreach are of course angry and motivated to question the prevailing view. If one politician had just listened, if one journalists had questioned more and one scientist had broken ranks (they are there) to present the empirical evidence emerging abroad, all of this could have been avoided. The only price would have been the dent in the hubris of this government and its pandemic faithful.

    The vaccines have undoubtedly made an impact on Covid mortality but we will now see what the cost of that was. It may make for uncomfortable reading. That there was wholesale censorship of all government pandemic policy and its underlying rationale is the reason for the anger of many. It is an anger well founded in my opinion.

    1. Salacious Crumb I was going to say something like that, but you said it better. Thanks.

      A friend of mine went for his first vaccination a several months ago and two hours later was in the emergency ward with a reaction to it. He spent two weeks in Northshore Hospital because of his reaction. He now dare not have the second shot and as such he is now classed as ‘unvaccinated’. He has been denied a vaccine pass by the government. He cannot go into restaurants or in many public venues. He is a second class citizen and might as well have a yellow star on his lapel. His reaction and those of many others were never mentioned on the News, instead our lapdog media they denied they even existed.
      Yes I know there are always people who react to vaccines, but the subsequent denial of a vaccine pass was cruel and inhuman: A feature of this divisive and thoroughly nasty government.

    2. Here here.

      I could add couple of things: first – this notion of “peaceful”, “violent” with a “mostly” in front whichever way you want to play it is as ridiculous coming from crazies down there at parliament as it is from CT. The reality is way more messy. There was a spectrum of views down there, a spectrum of sanity, it changed through time, etc.

      Second, interesting to observe CT veer off into the slightly desperate identity territory when it suits – this ridiculous notion that challenges to a “young, female prime minister” ought not be taken seriously, especially if levelled by “0powerful White conservative males”.

      We just have to accept that all these things make it difficult to parse what happened down there. It’s still too soon to say what happened, really. No one is covered in glory (except maybe ambo folks), no one is uniquely bad (except maybe Mallard). Some might say CT is looking to pen a first draft of history here, but it seems to me the attempt is less to record and more to shape to the benefit of “allies” – craven stuff on this issue.

      1. Does chris trotter have a stalinist mustache because of his authoritarian streak ,,,, or a hat tip to state propaganda.*

        Police have established and proven techniques for preventing crowd from getting out of control.

        Using under-covers in conjunction with uniformed ones, 30-40 officers could efficiently skim the aggressive trouble-makers out, by arresting those engaged in threatening behavior, intimidation, assault and other crimes against Wellingtons citizens ,,,, immediate same day court appearance with trespass orders attached as part of bail conditions ,,,, immediate two week detention for breach of order.

        Enforcement like this would have been good for everyone, including genuine protesters who themselves got intimidated or disappointed as things both degenerated and escalated….. so many of them left.

        Unlawful behavior was allowed to flourish and grow into the deplorables narrative ,,,, playing a large hand in bringing about the worst behavior worked out great for the state.

        Finally Justindas kind words and compassion are contradicted by her Govts actions,,, as NZ stood with the successful anti-vax campaign denying millions or even Billions of doses to those in need ,,, to protect drug companies profits.

        We did end up changing our position on being anti-vax for the poor ,,, when Biden/usa pretended to change theirs.

        **********************************

        * the only thing we can say with certainty about Mustaches is that Hitler really ruined it for the Charlie Chapplin type.

    3. Salacious Crumb, you should credit your sources, particularly your main ones which, I’m guessing from the BS, must have been Natural News and Prison Planet.

    4. If you were half as clever as you claim you should be able to work out the results for vaccine safety by comparing the number vaccinated (95%) to the number of problems reported. While I am aware that various websites will claim hundreds of deaths from the vaccine they use the logic that believed in a spontaneous generation a few centuries ago so no sensible person believes them.

  2. There is no escaping the logical conclusion that, after close on 40 years of American neoliberalism, all is not well in our society. Neoliberalism has indeed been an abject failure and things are unwinding at an increasing rate as the USA model Roger Douglas deceitfully imposed upon us is being exposed for what it really means to the vast majority of people. These disparate groups we bemoan are but a sign of the deep frustrations growing in New Zealand.

  3. I think its pretty simple. It would not matter what Arden does as far as the tribally aligned John Roughan is concerned. He’s quite happy to be a complete hypocrite and depart from the good old fashioned “tough on crime” stance (assuming trespassing and vandalism are considered such) when it suits. Roughan would probably ‘take a knee’ if he thought it was the opposite of what the PM would do.

    As for W&F Arden is probably way too right of left (and she probably is despite all this rubbish about her being communist ) so they minimise the brick throwing and fire starting to a few bad eggs (I think by day 23 there were more than a ‘few’)

  4. Salacious Crumb, very well argued, re science is a continuum. The only empirical science is that which takes place in a controlled environment – and we don’t live in one. It’s such a hackneyed, arrogant and pompous phrase, to say ‘The science says ‘or ‘The research shows’. One really is referring to the one bit of evidence one cars to quote that backs one’s view. Lazy, weak news media do it all the time.

    And Chris, unless you’ve had good first-hand experience of the protest (that lasted over threes weeks), how can you validly make summations of the the of folk who were the occupiers. In my three visits to the sight – unmasked but tripled dosed with Pfizer – I didn’t see a skerrick of violence or harassment.

    That’s why I enjoy reading the journalism and reportage of pre-internet times; scribes generally witnessed what they wrote about. Now we have idle keyboard warriors who parrot, tweet, cut and paste or conflate what they’ve read about on the inter-web.

  5. “What neither writer attempts to explain, however, is why so many other working-class New Zealanders – Māori and Pasifika working-class New Zealanders in particular – who are also the victims of “social and economic deprivation”, fought Covid by organising collective action and mutual support.”

    Actually there was huge resistance in this demographic, took forever to drag them over the 90% vax finish line and only with a massive drive using tax payer funded carrots and sticks.

    They complied and then they got screwed re:housing catastrophe.

    Too bad 25 or 50k of them don’t rock on up to Parliament and occupy the lawns until serious measures are taken to end child poverty?

  6. Excellent commentary.

    I particularly agree with the point on people “not losing their jobs, rather giving them up after declining social obligation.”

  7. If we had gone down the same road of USA ,1 death/ 300 people, NZ death toll would be over 15,000. Somewhere in there, I think the government has done something ok.

  8. Usually enjoy CT articles but this was not up to his usual standard with name calling and stereotyping lazily employed.

    Did you visit the protest, CT?

  9. I think I have said it before Chris, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. What you say is not wrong entirely and similar those with opposing views thatyou quote. The protest wasnt our best hour as a nation on either side but it was a mish mash of many groups so the evaluation of what occurred is also not starightforward. Lots of reasons why and lots of blame to go around.

  10. Yes! Roughan quoted the PM as saying, “the occupation would not define us.”
    Here is an RNZ link to her statement: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/462598/pm-jacinda-ardern-on-violence-outside-parliament-we-will-restore-these-grounds
    What she said was, “we will not be defined by one act by a small group of people.”

    Roughan somehow managed to take offence at that statement.
    He wrote: “But she doesn’t get to decide what defines us. Not all of us.”
    He seems to want to be able to be defined by the occupation.
    Incredible.

  11. The only freedom sought was the freedom to ignore the obligations attached to being fully human.

    And, by engaging in and prolonging a maskless superspreader event, they stole the freedom of many to remain Covid-free for just a while longer.

  12. Great article, Chris. I too found Roughan’s defence of this incoherent mess and his whitewashing of the blatant thuggery that occurred extraordinary, and indeed, chilling. In fact, he seemed to elevate the whole affair to some noble number eight wire display of Kiwi ingenuity. Even to label it as anti-mandate is a misnomer. Depicting Ardern as some sort of sinister dictator is frankly preposterous and inflammatory. One of the most compelling and in fact heart-rending pleas for common sense came from Wellington Girls’ High School students, whose school was closed because of the daily intimidation.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/28-02-2022/we-dont-deserve-this-wellington-students-kept-away-from-school-by-parliament-protest?fbclid=IwAR1tPa2W6Sxz_IM2sEC_9vUuMpT5oIpsCGlZq3qYvNBYd31V2Xq5WnfAXgE

    Nobody could honestly call this protest a success. Somewhere along the line, surely, the attendees, including the drop-in celebrity poseurs, knew that in fact the answer that they claimed that they were seeking had been given a long time ago, but stayed on as they were spoiling for a fight. And yes, I believe in the right to freedom of expression, and yes, I have attended many protests since teenagerhood, but nobody hung around indefinitely like a spoilt brat stamping one’s foot. What politician deliberately applies a mandate on vaccination in order to assert dictatorship, knowing full well that it may well be an unpopular and potentially divisive move? Not Hitler that’s for sure: he knew better than to apply the vaccination mandates that had previously existed in Germany: better to let smallpox run riot, eliminate undesirables and survive politically. Surely a mandate of this nature is applied for the common good? I have long since given up on attempting to furnish pro-vaccination information to those who are anti, and have long since acknowledged that their stance may well be implacable. But what I think many in Aotearoa NZ found really distressing about the protesters was the refusal to sincerely engage in dialogue. It was they who set that tone, they who accused, bullied, burnt, spat and shouted. No amount of white-washing it, Roughan-style, will make that sense of an assault go away. And as for those who claimed that this was not the Aotearoa New Zealand that our forefathers fought for in World War Two, troops were, for the record, triple vaccinated against typhoid and other diseases. I doubt that they envisaged a march on Parliament to query their personal ‘freedoms.’

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