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  1. The rush to almost full population vaccination is not because Jacinda and her governments have gone all fascist or communist. It’s much more simple.

    They did nothing, less than nothing to prepare for Delta, did nothing to even improve things after alpha. Knowing just how bad our health system is, that it couldn’t even deal with an outbreak of the common cold, they knew the death toll would be horrific. Without world record setting vaccination, it was game over Labour! And for quite a few New Zealanders.

    That’s it really in a nutshell. Nothing more sinister than arse covering ones incompetence.

    1. Xray, it takes years to fix a 30 year problem of deliberate underfunding. Just what could have been done overnight to prepare for Delta ?

    2. What? Who did nothing? They? The Labour govt? The ministry of health? You must be joking Xray!

      Elimination was a useful strategy. It bought time. Somewhat fortuitous as the early variants were late getting to these distant shores. Had it not been for ‘go early go fast’ it would have been a very different story given the state of the public health system. Even now it’s a stretch. MIQ for all its faults kept Covid 19 – and the Delta variant – from small town NZ. I suspect Westport, Gore, Reefton, Kaikohe and Stratford don’t have any grumbles. Arguably the vaccination rollout could have gone better – but hindsight’s a wonderful thing.

      “Simplicity is not a simple thing”. So said Charlie Chaplin. Maybe you need to see the big picture Xray.

      1. The picture I see Bozo, as does most Aucklanders, is zero prep.

        Elimination was fantastic with Covid A, useless without nailing Auckland with Covid D.

        Yes the muddled MIQ system was better than nothing but it was always having issues and Aucklanders were always the victims of it’s many shortcomings.

        Show me evidence our ICU’s are better placed by August 2021 than March 2020. It was revealed yesterday there were actually less beds with staffing. We’ve now had 3 Covid positive/sick people die in the community!

        In fact where has this government demonstrated they were ready for Delta? All they had was lasts years go to.

        By August in Auckland there was a waiting list as long as your arm to get vaccinated and two places operating, business hours, to get the jab. Hopeless! And they just wiped peoples bookings when this outbreak began!

        The damage done in Auckland is down to their incompetence. As Andrea Vance quite rightly stated, saving lives was the bare minimum we should have expected especially with vaccinations and advances in treatment. What we’ve got is a 3 ringed circus!

    3. Given ACT etc would scream about increased govt spending, what do you lot think they should have done?

      1. I don’t know who “you lot” are but:

        I would have recruited overseas staff for ICU, making their immigration a tick the box exercise to enter NZ as well as boosting pay for current staff to international levels plus begin an internal recruiting drive to at least get the ball rolling for future ICU staffing.

        I would have strategised multiple scenarios of Delta entering with contingencies to deal with each one including the likely failure of elimination.

        I would have risk forecast for Auckland to ensure if it broke out, and of course Auckland was always going to be the front line, that Auckland was not cut off from the rest of the country a moment longer than needed and businesses were not destroyed.

        Replacement for the level system that is not fit for purpose under suppression.

        Proper alternatives to school attendance.

        Government departments being adapted to deal with Covid as normal in terms of infrastructure.

        Who needed to be mandatory vaccinated and who didn’t.

        Contingency planning for the Facebook believers antivax squads and those who genuinely want a right to choose. And those who cant.

        Sadly, none of the above occurred to our government. Hence it’s make it up bumbling as you go clusterfuck we’re seeing now!

        1. Labour stopped the virus at the border. Have pretty much acheived 90% vaccination rate. Kept deaths below triple digits. Thats not bumbling thats well and truly acheiving great KPI. An almost best in the world successful response? Mate count yourself lucky you live with this government and not Trump or Boris or Bolsanaro or live in Italy or France.

          1. And now look at the Netherlands…
            ‘However, the Netherlands ditched most restrictions on September 15 when it had only achieved a 77 per cent vaccination rate among eligible adults. It dumped social distancing and functioned as normal, albeit with vaccine certificates required for entry into most places. The Netherlands have gone into partial lockdown after stating they were a thing of the past” 16,000 cases a day.

  2. The Russians, given their long history of state lies and propaganda, have an understandable tendency to not just doubt the official line but to believe the complete opposite. You can build a tower of lies, start believing them yourself even, but reality is much bigger, infinitely bigger, than your bullshit.
    I agree with X above, the Nazi etc. epithet has been overused to the point of meaninglessness. I wouldn’t worry about it Chris. Racist and genocide are other examples – I’m looking at you Rawiri.

  3. A very good observation Chris, and one I have known for yonks.

    As usual, this insane right-wing bullshit doesn’t stack up against facts.

    Maybe this is what is behind the inability to discuss things rationally these days.

    The opinion matters more than the truth (oh Lord, does it ever!).

    When simple facts shatter an opinion, the only (supposed) recourse is to bunker down and repel boarders.

    End of discussion.

    Let them eat covid…

    1. I ask for facts and evidence on this site yet the far right wing conspiracy theorists seem to believe it’s not important.

  4. The debate is much, much older. It goes back to ancient philosophies: why should society become organised and have government? What kinds of rights and freedoms do organised societies bestow on their members, and what would happen if such organising principles were withdrawn and we all became equal in our (non) power over others.
    Those who conduct such debates almost universally agree that organised societies inevitably limit but also enhance freedoms for some or all of their citizens. More importantly, without such organising principles, life is nasty, brutish and short (to paraphrase ole’ Hobbes).
    But the detail of whose rights and powers, and when, and how, are constantly struggled over. As you say, there is nothing new under teh sun.

  5. Is it possible to simultaneously follow the Soviet and Nazi policies on vaccination?
    Well yes, it is.
    Have a more or less compulsory vaccination system which proclaims “The state is in charge, it cares about you and is taking strong action to protect the public in the face of a pandemic”.
    The proponents of a strong and ostensibly benevolent state are well satisfied.
    Then, administer a vaccine whose efficacy declines sharply to near zero over a relatively short space of time.
    The eugenicists approve. So do those economists who in private bemoan the inefficient utilization of capital tied up in the service of the old and the chronically ill.
    There, in a stroke of social democratic genius, you have happily married the virtues of bolshevism and fascism.

    1. With a new vaccine surely it is wise to be careful and go on the light side and do a top up than go in to high . When the pill was first invented it was 6 times more powerful than now and some had side effects. Due to the urgency of the situation around the world we were lucky this drug was in the pipe line. 3.5 billion doses have ben given wold wide so it is now well researched.
      I am gobsmacked that so many eductors are refusing the protection perhaps this shows the low moral fibre that these teachers are installing in our young minds.

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