While ACT are using the word ‘subhuman’ to describe gangs and comparing Opotiki to Mogadishu, National are rushing in to claim their slice of the get-tough-on-crime vote with National rehashing existing law and pretending that means something…
National is promising to create tougher sentences for gang members, adding gang membership as an aggravating factor when handed down a sentence for an offence.
However, the Green Party and Labour both say National’s proposal is already happening and “really redundant”.
The announcement comes as politicians face criticism over creating a “political football” over the Ōpōtiki’s gang funeral.
National leader Christopher Luxon said gangs “thrive by preying on the most vulnerable individuals, peddling addiction, intimidation, and widespread misery wherever they set up shop.”
…the law already allows for gang membership to be an aggravating factor in sentencing, what National will do is remove any capacity for Judges to use discretion and will instead force them to use it.
It’s is effectively forcing the judiciary to do it rather than respect their objectivity.
It’s such crude and stupid law, only National could come up with it.
National are promising to strip Judges of their agency, Winston is calling for the military to be sent in and ACT are comparing Opotiki to Mogadishu who this month saw 50 UN troops killed and in October had 2 car bombs that killed 100 and wounded 300, but sure, Opotiki is EXACTLY like Mogadishu, all the while our Prisons are creating more damaged angry men…
Some prisoners in solitary confinement for over a year – report
A review of New Zealand’s 18 prisons over a 12 month period showed thousands of inmates had experienced solitary confinement.
A report from the independent Office of the Inspectorate shows between October 1, 2020 and September 20, 2021, 5655 prisoners – or 29% of all prisoners held at that time – spent time in jail where they were segregated from social interactions.
Corrections said it did not underestimate the serious impact that segregation could have on the wellbeing of people in prison and their families, and said it was an area that needed to be addressed.
The lengthy report from the prison’s watchdog showed thousands of at-risk prisoners had spent months or even years without contact with any other prisoners, and are now susceptible to long-lasting psychological effects, such as depression and paranoia.
“We have found that many of these prisoners would likely have experienced ‘solitary confinement’ as that term is defined in the Mandela Rules – more than 22 hours a day without ‘meaningful human interaction’.
…we are so focussed on making the prisoner suffer as an act of social policy vengeance, we ignore how that process makes damaged people even more damaged.
I am no apologist for the crime and violence generated by gangs, but I’m smart enough to appreciate how they formed and why.
You get that the creators of these gangs were the kids abused by the State in State care right?
You get that for those on the bottom of society, these gangs form the only family they’ve known?
You get that the drivers of poverty manifest in these types of gangs right?
Their leader has been killed and they mourn him in their fashion and manner.
The hysteria this has generated by politicians seeking to manipulate your fear into anger that votes is obvious, yet you all take it hook, line and sinker.
Part of me wishes that ACT and National were actually in power, because what are they seriously suggesting here?
That armed Police (with the backing of the NZ Military) would suspend all civil rights and declare a state of emergency using martial law to open fire on Gang members who refuse to stop their funeral procession?
Because let’s be very clear, that’s what it would take to stop them from burying their President, armed Police (with the backing of the NZ Army) would need to open fire on them to stop them.
“Oh that’s ridiculous Bomber’, you squeal, “Just arrest them all”.
Ok.
How many Police would you draft in to arrest them all?
Even if you brought every Police Officer from around the country to arrest every gang member in Opotiki, you think that won’t immediately deteriorate into shots fired?
The problem is that these gangs are enormous and they are enormous because the generational pain and damage caused by intense poverty and societal alienation have made them enormous, suddenly wanting to shoot them all because they mourn angrily is possibly the dumbest social policy I’ve ever heard, and I was alive for Roger Douglas!
This argument that Labour cuddle crims and are soft on crime and that’s why this is happening utterly misunderstands the problem, the local Police are allowing this because they know this is the best approach to take in terms of community policing!
They know that if you attempt to stop this, there will be violence that spins out of control.
That’s why David Seymour’s ‘subhuman’ comment is so disgraceful and in fact far more terrifying than angry gang mourners because once someone is determined ‘subhuman’ by the State, the State legitimises any response.
To have the leader of the 3rd largest political party in NZ start the ‘subhuman’ game is a dangerous escalation.
We are a liberal progressive democracy, not a fucking Police State.
There are better ways to bring people out of gangs, starting a civil war isn’t really the smartest and most cost effective to do it.
Grow up FFS!
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When the judiciary start applying 85% discounts for rapists, serial rapists get Home D, gang members peddling meth get giant discounts for cultural reasons alone on top of all other discounts, people lose faith in the justice systems ability to do its job. And it’s then arbitrary sentencing is forced on Judges. This was so predictable. Honestly, our judiciary put Briscoes to shame when it comes to bargain discounts!
XRAY you comment in abstraction, judges are appointed to interperate the law and apply it with fairness to both sides.
It seems I the last 3-5 years, victims ceased being part of that “fairness” equation! And I’m not so naive to think that the judiciary do not fall under the influence of the presiding government!
And you don’t comment “in abstraction”, Power man?
Here’s what you do. Ironically, this is what will never happen because, ya know, crime’s a commodity, a business proposal in a neo liberal society.
# A Decriminalise all recreational drugs immediately.
# B Tax the 14 multi billionaires and the 3118 multi-millionaires with with even a scant few %-dollars taken from their ill gotten wealth and pay the at-risk-people neo-liberal resource a living wage with a bonus monthly for behaving themselves. The rich would never miss it. Remember. A million is one thousand $-hundreds. A billion is one thousand $-millions. That’s right… $-One thousand of the $-millions… And there are 14 MULTI-billionaires in little, agricultural primary industry Aotearoa / New Zealand with a population of 5.2 million human beings. What does that say to you? Be honest. What does that tell you about our politics, our economics and the information we’re fed down from our bureaucracy? Hint. It’s what Bulls do.
#C Tax the four x foreign owned banks on their net profits. $180.00 a second in net profits from our communities and society is outrageous at the best of times and these are not the best of times.
#D Know your enemy. We each of us are not the real enemy to the each’s of us which is contrary to what they tell us. Gangs? Bad. Banks? Good. Striking? Bad. Free market? Good. The very real enemy is Banking, WINZ and the IRD and whom ever is up and behind them. I can tell you who it isn’t. It isn’t us, and yet Banking WINZ and IRD are ours, so what the fuck’s going on? I think we should get to know the enemy intimately and immediately but I don’t think we can do it alone. We need a royal commission of inquiry to pull on some rubber gloves then bend the rich over and go up them like a well oiled rat up a drain pipe.
yeah of course they do! disingenuous and downright out of touch !
Got proof of your assumptions Xray? Or is this another far-right extremist comment looking for validity by your peers?
Xray is well known for its far right rhetoric. So no, no proof Stephan, just more of the same from Xray, good for a giggle though.
Oh come on guys, Briscoes never offer 85% discounts like our courts did last week. But if youve got a bargain there for more discount, please offer proof!
XRAY you are without doubt correct hence the nerve you have struck with some others who comment here.
And you got a discount of 15 % brain function Xray, Bob is the proof, does this strike a nerve or do feel triggered Bob?
Exactly XRAY!
What we have here are activist judges with a political bent based on their total lack of experience of Struggle Street. It was the same for Three Strikes – despite it being the law of the land, many judges wriggled out of applying it and caused immeasurable harm in the community by letting psychopathic offenders back on the street.
Meanwhile they sit in their Remuera mansions oblivious of the damage they do, all while feeling virtuous.
Martyn – So what do we do with that 1% of our population who cannot/will not treat other humans well? Churches, families, marae can only go so far.
Back when New Zealand was a real country instead of a neoliberal economic zone, there were mental health institutions that provided support to many such people.
Like Kingseat? LOL
Perhaps very long sentences with productive hard labour, and then internal exile after release (to new productive settlements on undeveloped islands).
But it isn’t a coincidence that there was barely any crime when there was true full employment, in an advanced economy with rising wages (which held true for all such countries).
Hey Kristoff I think you will find all western countries are in the same boat. No one is immune from the internet influencers on our youth ( even children). These youngsters are egged on not only by their peers but by the likes of ticktock etc. etc. Violence and crime will only be solved fully when our children are not brought up on the internet. Babies are given cell phones to stop them crying or to keep them amused. The times you speak of did exist , however the internet didn’t.
Neihana, the victim was the president of the Mongrel Mob that was murderer, your logic defending the indefensible similarly your undenying support for apartheid Israel subhuman treatment of the indigenous Palestinians. I think you need to check your moral compass?
If you are the president of a big gang and someone/s take you out it is not murder, it is simply karma.
But no one took Key out Peter?
Tipene – Not really comparing apples, with apples with that statement…please visit Israel for proof.
I think David Seymour is more in tune with middle NZ on this topic than anyone in the Labour or Green caucus.
Add in news today of surgery being approved on the basis of ethnicity, and it’s Labour’s millstone.
Not everyone has been the victim of a gang member. But everyone knows someone who has been on a waiting list for a long time.
And on that subject Ginny Anderson proved, almost beyond belief, that there could be a worse police minister than Poto! Her not so subtle kite flying for a segregated justice system this weekend was terrible! What the fuck is it with Labour’s us and them obsession with race?
Apparently the segregation of health provision also excludes non Maori/Pacifica from mental health too, especially over 25!
ada your probably right but just because vengence gives people a stiffy doesn’t mean it’s effective…..compare and contract USA and finland(finland having a big bike gang problem too)
Thanks gagarin and good point.
The tensions between good politics and good policy.
Ada. “ Surgery being approved on the basis of ethnicity “ ? If this is so, then it is racist, and also a shocking position for the medical profession to be put in, as well as for patients in pain. It also violates basic human rights, but unfortunately our various human rights commissioners seem to act as government lackeys – apart from the Commissioner for Children who was kneecapped for being independent.
It would surprise me if middle New Zealand agreed with gang members being described as sub-human; it’s very much on a par with bottom-feeders and rivers of filth, and blatantly misleading. Most realise that social and economic conditions have contributed to gang issues, but their links to organised crime and drug syndicates aren’t the activities of sub-humans.
Is there a reference for preferential surgery based on race please?
try the heralds front page.
Does anyone have the actual weighting figures given to each of the surgery priority criterea? Without the figures we are not in a position to have an informed position.
Hollyhock of the Valley, funny because I’ve been waiting for my knee replace for 5 years now still no set date and I belong to this privileged group that you claim gets special treatment?????
any and I do mean ANY race based policy is by definition racist
These days most people know people in NZ who are both victims of some sort of crime and know people who are still on the hospital waiting list. It’s getting so common!
Another article that ignores victims – getting a bit silly now.
We don’t care about collateral damage. There is too many of them.
After the 4th violent home invasion or ram raid on business, just give up and leave the spoils for the vulnerable criminals, they need more hugs, more ‘gang’ led programs and money spent to help them, and more woke counselling telling them, it’s not them, it’s everyone else’s fault! Oranga Tamariki with their critical race theory are onto it!
It always cracks me up, how government and industry keep going on about how they can’t get any nurses and teachers, truck drivers, fruit pickers and doctors but instead they incessantly advertise only for corrections jobs and training in NZ – which is made out to be some incredible career instead of something like banking. (Meanwhile on a side topic, weird how millions of scams involving banks is not actually a priority for anybody in banking and government to stop, https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/investment-scam-man-demands-law-change-after-losing-400000-in-elaborate-scam/FSE4UB2VJZCTXD5HFQPFUL3GDM/!)
The victim was the Mongrel Mob president that was shot and killed!!!! But hey they’re subhumans living in Mogadishu so they can’t be victims????
And a Maori gang member no longer faces jail time under a Labour government.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/06/police-minister-ginny-andersen-attacks-new-zealand-s-prison-system-says-it-s-no-place-for-m-ori-offenders.html
“It comes as the Government on Friday kicked off the multi-million-dollar extension of Te Pae Oranga, a scheme where offenders are placed before community panels instead of the courts.”
So not only will gang members not face jail, they will not even be accountable to the justice system as all other non-Maori New Zealanders.
So we have separate system for Maori in justice and law enforcement plus in health as well.
The backlash is going to be massive for Labour
Gerrit, making shit up again! the article says Maori not Maori gang-members
even so stephen if you were observing the same situation in the US red states…you’d be appalled…a panEl of good ol boys pontificating on young leroy shooting that ‘darkie’
While its true the long-term solution to gangs is tackling things like poverty, there is a much more simple short term solution that no-one is discussing: Legalize meth – No not the ‘sold in every corner dairy’ type of legal like with vapes, but like with the methadone type of legal or decriminalized ‘sold from the chemist with a script from your doctor’.
This would be a great way to defund the gangs, making them and their lifestyle (cash, flash clothes, gold chains, bikes, cars) much less desirable to children. It would also end the crime related to coming up with the money addicts need to get their fix.
Now while were at it and we now have gained control over the drug: Let’s make it safer. It’s a no brainer, there are safer analogues of amphetamines out there. Lets get those and mix them up in a form that can only be used orally, not smoked or injected. Now let’s add the amino acid precursors (L-tyrosine, 5-HTP) to the neurotransmitters (dopamine, serotonin) depleted by meth, along with the required vitamin and mineral co-factors. Now lets provide the addict with loads on information on how to wean off the stuff. How about switching to a safer drug all together, which can also be purchased at same chemist? This is harm reduction.
Now with all the money made selling legal meth at chemists and saved from no longer fighting the war on meth/drugs and solving all the associated crime, re-direct this mega cash toward poverty and the other conditions that are fueling the growth in gangs. Too simple huh? 😉
too simple mate – in a world where meth is a shit drug no-one bothers with – NZ is cartel central.
There’s actually something to the Mogadishu comparison. Between 2000 and 2006 the indigenous, homegrown ICU was able to wipe out the various criminal gangs that the US financed to destroy Somalia, before a US-sponsored invasion from the regime then in power of Ethiopia that dropped the entire country into chaos again.
Bringing in a bunch of upper-middle class WEIRD social workers from Wellington and Auckland isn’t going to fix Opotiki’s problems.
Nope. They need Raylan Givens.
Labour is fucked. Simple as. It does not matter how bad National will be, this current lot has made Labour so fucking unpalatable it ain’t funny anymore. Those that are reflexive left voters – on the grounds of their own rosy colored ideas of socialism, communism and won’t somebody please thing of the worker – are shit outta luck. Very sorry to break it to you, but the fuckers that currently run Labour are scarier then ACT, National and the Bogyman combined. Heck, you can add the Freddy Krueger Party into that and i would still not vote for Labour.
Our hospitals? Fucked
Our schools? Fucked
Our infrastructure? Fucked and getting more fucked by the truckload
Our economy? Fucked beyond believe
Surgeries? What is your ethnicity
Prison sentences? Depends who you are
Rape? Decriminalized, home D and a Netflix subscription should do. Ditto for any other ‘petty crime’.
Our national spirit? Broken, hopefully not yet beyond repair
Our sense of belonging? Taken by a bunch of wankers and declared indecent on the ground of ethnicity, sex, religion.
Everything Labour has touched over the last 5+ years turned to shit. And let me tell you there are levels to shit. You can have firm, solid, dog shite that is easy to pick up and carry to the next rubbish bin. Then there is the medium shit, you leave behind what you can’t pick up and you carry that smelly stuff to the bin. Then you have that real upsetting shit, that yellow colored, runny shit, and you just look at it, throw some dirt on it and walk away.
I am sorry to have it to break to you, but your party has become abusive, selective, intolerant, uncaring, duplicitous and mendacious. Runny, yellow colored stinky shit, so walk a way from it.
Labour has stopped some time ago of being a part of the solution, Labour is now part of the problem.
National is not gonna fix it, far from it. But they no longer are scarier then Labour.
Labour is fucked. Simple as. – Bollocks
Our hospitals? Fucked already beforehand by National!
Our schools? Fucked already beforehand by National!
Our infrastructure? Fucked and getting more fucked by the truckload – already beforehand by National and Labour
Our economy? Fucked beyond believe – can’t agree it’s fucked.
Surgeries? What is your ethnicity – or $$$ – whether you can afford private – which is also an ‘ethnic thing”
Prison sentences? Depends who you are and the nature of offending
Rape? Decriminalized, home D and a Netflix subscription should do. Ditto for any other ‘petty crime’.
Our national spirit? Broken, hopefully not yet beyond repair – Rape could only be petty under Nats or ACT
Our sense of belonging? Taken by a bunch of wankers and declared indecent on the ground of ethnicity, sex, religion.
Everything Labour has touched over the last 5+ years turned to shit. Bullshit – like the party you suck up to
National is not gonna fix it, far from it. Fullstop. They have no ideas or policies that are helpful for anyone but their harpies.
Absolute BS post – but to be expected by ACT/Nat’s cheerleader!
AS
Everything you say about NAT/ACT is correct. Everything else you say is true. Conclusion – Labour is still fucked.
Adam Smith despite everything you say the current Labour Government are the worst Government in our history.
More MPs under investigation than any time in our history,as an example.
MPs including the Prime Minister having a history of failure,non achievers.
“National is not gonna fix it, far from it. But they no longer are scarier then Labour.”
you did not see that then? I don’t consider National a solution at all, i am just stating that Labour can no longer win on ‘we are the lesser evil’. And you have not made a good case for them either. So, Labour is still fucked.
I can’t wait till you find out about resource depletion and the atmosphere over-heating. You’ll really lose the plot – lol
Perhaps we could focus on one of the other gangs in our society THE POLICE!
I know which one I would want as a neighbor
me too – and it wouldn’t be the po po. bloody shift workers are the worst.
Two tier justice system where violence is being encouraged by low or non existent justice.
If you are a woke male, middle, aged MP that gets randomly punched then it’s jail for your perp.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/man-who-punched-green-party-co-leader-james-shaw-sent-to-prison/JSE6DD2LQ5PAUPXYDBTSA5TMQY/
But if you are a elderly woman who gets their jaw fractured wearing wahine T-shirt, then it’s diversion (aka no crime).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/posie-parker-protest-young-man-accused-of-punching-elderly-woman-granted-diversion/UK6SUZYJVJDMJJMJRP5ZCJNODQ/
Likewise the woke always are so arrogant that the rules don’t apply to them.
Meng Foon has had a long history of making money off government to do with property investments including pokies and liquor, but somehow fails to declare a 2 million conflict of interest, and now seems be to arrogantly backtracking https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/race-relations-commissioner-meng-foon-reveals-he-hasnt-formally-resigned-and-makes-call-for-explanation-of-potential-removal/SIPXQVFEJRE7DBNEKXYGE5YXMY/ after Wiki has already had him resigned – I guess the woke are above the law and ethics after all.
Race Relations Commissioner Meng Foon rejects allegations of pokie grant ‘kickback’ in historical investigation
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/125432465/race-relations-commissioner-meng-foon-rejects-allegations-of-pokie-grant-kickback-in-historical-investigation
From wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Foon
“He served as New Zealand’s race relations commissioner from August 2019 to June 2023, resigning after failing to declare payments of $2 million he took for emergency housing while director of an investment company.[3]”
“Foon expanded his family’s market garden business into several shops. During the 1960s, Foon and his family also bought Gisborne’s Kaiti Mall and opened a liquor shop called TAB. In 1985, Foon’s parents retired and emigrated to Sydney, Australia before retiring in Hong Kong. Meng, his brother, and their wives subsequently took over the family business.[5]
In 2018, Foon and his relatives sold Kaiti Mall. By that time, Kaiti Mall’s land and buildings were estimated to be worth NZ$3.8 million. By 2018, Kaiti Mall had 12 tenants including businesses, government, and commercial tenants.[7]”
A look we see often with woke in positions of power that are now above the law but in their woke world, still think they have some moral high ground.
Green Party MP Elizabeth Kerekere won’t face charges for breaking Covid-19 rules
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/128214776/green-party-mp-elizabeth-kerekere-wont-face-charges-for-breaking-covid19-rules
You could be right gangs might not be the biggest problem that NZ faces in criminal justice, there seems to be many closer to parliament who break the rules and they are paid paid by taxpayers to be in positions of power, that they no longer deserve!
Funny enough with them in power more stuff seems to be going really wrong for NZ, and the endless money goes into some questionable areas.
Judge questions value of Mob-led rehab programme at sentencing of gang member
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126405710/judge-questions-value-of-mobled-rehab-programme-at-sentencing-of-gang-member
Remember how the police generally don’t have the resources to prosecute violent or fraud offenders! Well they do with climate activists who send out clear pranks to the oil industry as part of protest, but police are now too woke to joke!
Police and the many government agencies and banks, can’t find the missing hundreds of thousands in the forged bank scammers operating in NZ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/investment-scam-man-demands-law-change-after-losing-400000-in-elaborate-scam/FSE4UB2VJZCTXD5HFQPFUL3GDM/, but they have plenty of time to investigate and prosecute a victimless, climate change, prank!
Dunedin grandmother guilty of forgery in petroleum conference fake email trial
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/petroleum-conference-fake-email-trial-dunedin-activist-grandmother-guilty-of-forgery/4HBJLVMKNJHDVCQQG3AWAX5YRQ/
Go Get Em, Justice NZ!
Our corrections system has assisted the growth of the gangs; increasing sentences under the current system will only continue that growth. Until we change the prison model, fund and staff it adequately, don’t expect any improved outcome. Politicians promoting longer sentences without detailing what changes they will implement in the corrections system are the problem, not the solution.
Most of those subhumans that attended the murdered victims funeral in Mogadishu are dare I say it “Maori” and if they belong to another ethnicity than they’ll have strong affiliation with Maori communities.
Acts comments about subhumans has a more sinister tone that fits into his anti-Maori rhetoric his party pedals for votes. It’s a clever conniving strategy but hey he has pakeha elites money at his disposal to push his rhetoric.
Maori are already treated more harshly by police who’s institution originates from ethnically cleansing maori from their lands and livelihoods for european settlements.
Maori were called subhuman names then to make it more feasible in the european colonizers mindset to treat them accordingly. This sarcastic individual will light this country on fire if he gets his way.
I’m sure the Harley importers don’t think they’re sub-human. Is ACT really free enterprise or just Another Corrupt Tosser Party.
Indeed, our prisons are a disgrace. At best they’re warehousing crims.
Now if we had newly built, modern prisons with single bunking and opportunities for rehabilitation that would make a difference, wouldn’t it?
But we don’t have those facilities because Kelvin Davis cancelled the projects when Labour came into office!
Labour cancelled new highways and new prisons both desperately needed. Bring on the change in October
National canceled upgrades in health and education services and infrastructure, canceled real time wages to meet a low wage economy, all were desperately needed.
No change needed October unless your deaf as well as dumb.
no one wants or needs private prisons andrew the US prison industrial complex (gulag) is a warning to us
Appreciate the insightful readers comments today. Thank you.
lol – at this stage it wouldn’t surprise me if National announce a ban on alcohol and hand the gangs more black market free enterpirse opportunities.
Lets have a War on Gangs. It’ll be about as successful as all the other wowser wars. SH the MMM.
I love how all the wet and whiny whingers all cling to the government for protection. Big “C” conservatism has to be the most hypocritical political position of them all. A close second are the big “P” progressives aka unionists. Both rely on the status quo to remain and have no interest in reformist or traditional roles at all – it’s all about the feudal power and keeping everyone in their place. If the ACT party are far right I’d love to see what a nationalist party would be. Ultra Right? what about a true socialist reform party. Ultra left? complete centrist bollocks.
I have been watching Rowan Atkinson give a demonstration of how English public (priavte) schools are administered. I am sure that NZ schools are very different and I can understand the complaints emerging about the teaching profession here which is no doubt very plebeian. Schoolmasters will no doubt want to follow the USA mode where apparently everyone feels they know everything anyway and the students’ object is to impress this on the hapless teacher, or that is my impression.
Rowan Atkinson is very dedicated to proper behaviour by students and will brook no shilly-shallying. We should send our 501s to his academy. Though I have heard that the firm on contract to the government, which is running our prisons is trying various methods rather similar to that in the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppVpdsClN80
“too woke to joke”. crackup
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