Why Rawiri is right, Opotiki gang hysteria and ACTs subhuman comment – don’t you sometimes wish National and ACT were actually in power?

By
Martyn Bradbury
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110
2954
Former First Lady Muldoon with 'subhumans'

Preach Comrade…

Rawiri Waititi lashes out at Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon, media over commentary around death of gang leader

Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi has hit out at the Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon and the media over commentary around the death of a gang leader in Ōpōtiki.

…he’s 100% right!

Gang presence in Ōpōtiki after murder ‘unacceptable’ – Luxon

- Sponsor Promotion -

Labour’s “inaction” around the gang presence in Ōpōtiki after a gang leader’s murder is “unacceptable”, according to National Party leader Christopher Luxon.

…listening to middle class media freak out about the Opotiki Gang Funeral and scream ‘something must be done’ shows how feckless they are – what the media want is a Police State that shoots every gang member because they are as ACT claim ‘Subhuman’.

I am no apologist for the crime and violence generated by gangs, but I’m smart enough to appreciate how they formed and why.

You get that the creators of these gangs were the kids abused by the State in State care right?

You get that for those on the bottom of society, these gangs form the only family they’ve known?

You get that the drivers of poverty manifest in these types of gangs right?

Their leader has been killed and they mourn him in their fashion and manner.

The hysteria this has generated by politicians seeking to manipulate your fear into anger that votes is obvious, yet you all take it hook, line and sinker.

Part of me wishes that ACT and National were actually in power, because what are they seriously suggesting here?

That armed Police (with the backing of the NZ Military) would suspend all civil rights and declare a state of emergency using martial law to open fire on Gang members who refuse to stop their funeral procession?

Because let’s be very clear, that’s what it would take to stop them from burying their President, armed Police (with the backing of the NZ Army) would need to open fire on them to stop them.

“Oh that’s ridiculous Bomber’, you squeal, “Just arrest them all”.

Ok.

How many Police would you draft in to arrest them all?

Even if you brought every Police Officer from around the country to arrest every gang member in Opotiki, you think that won’t immediately deteriorate into shots fired?

The problem is that these gangs are enormous and they are enormous because the generational pain and damage caused by intense poverty and societal alienation have made them enormous, suddenly wanting to shoot them all because they mourn angrily is possibly the dumbest social policy I’ve ever heard, and I was alive for Roger Douglas!

This argument that Labour cuddle crims and are soft on crime and that’s why this is happening utterly misunderstands the problem, the local Police are allowing this because they know this is the best approach to take in terms of community policing!

They know that if you attempt to stop this, there will be violence that spins out of control.

That’s why David Seymour’s ‘subhuman’ comment is so disgraceful and in fact far more terrifying than angry gang mourners because once someone is determined ‘subhuman’ by the State, the State legitimises any response.

To have the leader of the 3rd largest political party in NZ start the ‘subhuman’ game is a dangerous escalation.

We are a liberal progressive democracy, not a fucking Police State.

There are better ways to bring people out of gangs, starting a civil war isn’t really the smartest and most cost effective to do it.

Grow up FFS!

 

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110 COMMENTS

  1. Using the term ‘subhuman’ really just puts Seymour in the same category as MP Micheal Woods saying ‘river of filth’.

    • gin hag. Yes, “sub-human” is a misnomer, and misleading, and not unlike referring to people as “bottom-feeders” and “rivers of filth”. They all need to clean up their act and stop using emotive language to try and manipulate the punters. Few would see gang members as sub-human the way that some of the mighty privileged bottom warmers in the Beehive appear to be.

      I thought kneecapping the Commissioner for Children was a sub-human act.

      Apart from the practical effect upon the well-being of vulnerable children, the symbolism of dumping their commissioner sends a message to kids that they don’t matter.

      The concept of the Commissioner, as a Robin Hood or Superwoman figure on the side of the children, could be the only visible symbol which some children have, of someone to watch over them. Smashing it, and replacing it with an anonymous backroom committee from the Dept of Education – with it’s gender oddballs – is worse than Orwellian in the damage it can do to kids’ psyches and their emotional well-being. Time and again I’ve wondered what sort of person Sepuloni is who could do such a thing to children, and in the face of expert advice from every direction.

      I won’t vote Labour or Green again, have never voted National, and wouldn’t vote for a person like Seymour who uses the same slimey divide and rule tactics. They all need to go. Welcome back Winston.

  2. Perhaps the government could outlaw any knowing participation in, or promotion of, proscribed criminal organisations — that could be strictly defined to avoid use on political opponents.

    Provisions could protect the right to associate with any organisation not proven to organise criminal activity. Long sentences (such as 30-45 years, as used in El Salvador) could be given to those participating in the syndicates.

    • ACTs level of thinking is nearly always fairytale stuff.

  4. Over the last 3 years we have tried to engage with gangs with the hope that they would integrate better with society. It hasn’t worked. In fact gangs have used it as a Trojan horse to increase and improve their operations. They are, and have taken the piss over the last 3 years while also gaining a sophistication aligned with their associates in South America and Asia. These are not the same gangs that fought amongst themselves and sold dope that Muldoon dealt with.

    They are now extremely brazen and don’t care nor have fear for the Police or any authority in the country. It is no coincidence that ram raiding and the proliferation of gangs have increased in parallel. The Ram Raiders are the next generation of gang members and only a naïve individual would argue they are mutually exclusive. Either we step up and do something now or gangs will become endemic, sustained and an endearing AND OPEN feature of our society. The cuckoldry of our Police is depressing as it is dangerous. We are at a critical juncture with regards to law and order. If we need to bring this to a head and an open war with gangs perhaps this is what we need to do.

    • The genie came out of the bottle well and truly with Costers “policing by consent” misnomer. “Police are monitoring the situation”, etc, etc. I can’t even say he gave them an inch, he gave them carte blanche! Now the cops just look impotent. Some other government is going to have to get this genie back in!

  5. Hmmm. When a gang leader dies, roads should close, schools close and businesses disrupted, In other words a state tangi.
    Strange times indeed we live in.

    • With the exception of the school piece it’s not unlike the Parlimentary protests. School kids were hassled for wearing masks, businesses were severely disrupted and all because a chunk of those gathered believed they would become transistor radios if they were vaccinated.

  6. Waititi has just shown another reason to make sure he does not get any power .
    If the gangs were predominantly pakeha there would be a must firmer hand taken against them.

    • Really Trevor? What’s that based on? There has not been a law in NZ ever that stopped people gathering for a funeral (I don’t think). They might be criminals in our heads but opinions of someone’s character doesn’t pass the test for jail time in a democracy

    • Trevor. This is the face and abrasive voice of the co- governance wanted by both Labour and National. Ask your MP.

  8. A few years ago, a young lady did her PhD thesis on gang membership – interviewing gang members from across the country. I’m sure she has some interesting stories to tell over a glass of pinot, but the reason of that work was to understand why men join gangs.

    There was one overriding factor: MOST GANG MEMBERS HAD ABSENTEE DADS

    >Children born to solo mums on welfare have a vastly greater chance of being abused and neglected.

    >Young men look for male role models and in the absence of a dad, find it in the gangs.

    > To survive on a rough street a boy needs to join a street gang, and this forms a steppingstone to real gangs.

    So the real driver for the rise in gangs is our ‘progressive’ welfare system, paying feckless woman to produce children they often don’t love, are incapable of caring for and cannot protect from predators.

    • Andrew. So all these ‘feckless’ women self-impregnate to get money from the government do they ? Then at this point the predators appear do they ? Come thru’ a time-wrap from Salem did you ?

      • Oh Andrew did mummy not treat you kindly?

    • Andrew. Seems to me, that the main driver you’re identifying, are the absent dads. If irresponsible feckless negligent unloving fathers produce children and vanish, then they’re the people you should be dumping on. You seem to think that it’s acceptable if men are inadequate and it is not. You msled need to get your acts together instead of behaving like children and blaming everybody except yourselves.

  9. NZ First wants to designate the gangs legally as ‘terrorist organisations’ to subject them to terrorism laws which would give them some next level intimidation power rather than just simple organised crime.Dumb.

    However it would be a good plan to designate all the gangs in Australia as terrorist organisations because then NZ born 501 soldiers can be rejected for repatriation in the same way as any other kiwi that goes overseas to be a a soldier in terrorist organisations like Isis.

  11. Aotearoa NZ–we have a problem…
    Colonisation, genocide not quite achieved, assimilation failed, 39 years of monetarism, an underclass formed by Roger Douglas swinging a neo liberal wrecking ball through the provinces–Forestry, Ministry of Works, Rail, and Manufacturing including textile, footwear, clothing, car assembly etc.

    What the hell do old Torys and younger ACToids think hundreds of thousands of alienated people are going to do? Thank you for sadistic post colonial fallout? Be pleased about being discarded from industrial society with no retraining and then being demonised to boot? Get it through your rather soft skulls–the lumpen proletariat have a different world view from you smug types.

    The solidarity shown to their fallen leader is admirable. I was raised on “sticking it to the man” in a class left sense and can totally relate to this scenario.

  12. Seemore is enacting the Doctrine of Discovery. I suggest the gang leaders need to get their people out to vote. I have been encouraging as many of my whanau and wider whanau to vote as we don’t want to end up with Act and National in power it will be a giant step backwards for our Māori peoples.

  13. Seemore is enacting the Doctrine of Discovery. I suggest the gang leaders need to get their people out to vote. I have been encouraging as many of my whanau and wider whanau to vote as we don’t want to end up with Act and National in power it will be a giant step backwards for our Māori peoples.

  14. The day we move to apply ACT and NZ First policies to groups we find objectionable, is the day our democracy dies. It is the point from where Germany slipped from the most cultured country in Europe, to the most barbaric. The police commissioner has said the police all the law they need to tackle the unruly in our communities, and that they apply it with measured balance.
    More harm is caused to our communities by alcohol, tobacco, fast food outlets, sugar, and now vaping, but nobody suggests that the huge corporations that profit from producing these products should be declared “terrorist entities,” as NZ First wants gangs to be labelled. Today’s rebellious young Maori are yesterday’s members of the Maori battalion, men whose drilled companies paid a greater price than any other for our so-called “liberal democratic democracy,” and yet their descendants have been driven far from its rewards. It’s Capitalism’s boardroom bosses whose companies profit from producing products that prey on the poor, who are the real gangs getting away with terrorizing our society.
    If we had a society that was truly democratic, we would insist that, from cradle to grave, everyone deserves respect and receives everything that goes with it. But we don’t live in a truly democratic society, but rather one where the poorest are looked down on and sneered at, and where wealth is allowed to exploit them. And then we express anguish and dismay when they sprout lawless groups.
    As the great Maori proverb says – “there is only one thing important in this life – it is people, it is people, it is people”

    • Would not closing the roads for them and making them follow the same laws I have to in a public place be The End Of Democracy too?

  15. It would be nice to have a decent prime minister like Muldoon back.

    Economic patriotism.
    Equitarian tax rates.
    Compassion for the vulnerable.
    Outreach to troubled people like the gangs, and not in a p**sy way.

    • Bankruptcy due to fixing the exchange rate etc…..

      ”Don’t give me culture I am not hearing you Rob, I could hang around like a Beehive boy but I’d like to see you do my job”

      Musical flash back

    • Muldoon was more a Labour like leader than any current ones..As A Natioal voter I voted for Labour to get him out of power .The country could not afford the booze bill for another term

  17. OR Do we just stop commenting on articles that have been written by someone or some organization with a different mindset than our own.

    A leader of a Gang, Group, Team, Family, Township, Organization was murdered!! Everyone mourns differently, everyone has different backgrounds, beliefs, behavior patterns, emotions, views on law and order, intelligence, role models, responsibilities, needs and wants.

    Unless you are in that township or were in an Ambulance that couldn’t get where it needed to or went to work as a police officer scared you weren’t going to be going home tonight common sence would say have an opinion, enjoy your freedom to have that opinion, keep that opinion to yourself unless you feel the need to be part of something that you really don’t know the atmosphere of or concequences of truly. You are no better than any politician or author you disagree with. It’s politician’s job to say things to gain approval. It’s a community’s policings job to make a plan in advance knowing what is coming. A LEADER with many people under him dies, not only that but was murdered. Gangs have many more members than a family does, they also have different, illegal (in our Country) ways of thinking and doing. Always have and always will.. because that’s all they know. They are intimidating of corse, but so is the white guy with aerosole cans in his reusable recycling bag walking up and down the main street of any town missing teeth, sometimes an eye muttering to himself looking right at you with possibly a knife under his jacket.
    There is always going to be more gang members flooding towns, there’s just more of them that’s all. We get pulled over one on one and still then the punishment comes in the mail… I’m sure that’s coming for the law breakers too.. but while these HUMANS are in town for the reason they are with tensions high I’m pretty sure it’s best to just chill instead of instant random collateral damage that happens all over the world. They are territorial, eye for an eye etc etc but still if and when needed they do what they have to in the same areas to get results. It’s culture. If jobs were done to perfection, and there were no snakes in the grass they wouldn’t have guns.. but when there’s guns here there and everywhere someone will get hurt, gun shoots will go off and retribution will happen for Murder… let alone a Leader. If your not in a gang we tend to instant think Scum of society, those in the Gangs don’t think twice of us. To them we are just crackers doing what we’re told to do to feel superior. Majority of tax payers money I could garentee would be wasted on scum that aren’t in Gangs. No need to correct me with stats as I’m hardly going to read any comments regarding my novel lol. I’m not bothered just need people to shhhh and remember if someone wasn’t murdered this wouldn’t be a story. Until the next one… New Zealand has much bigger issues lately wouldn’t you think… you know pretty quickly if someone’s a gang member or not, can you say the same of these new laws letting obvasly people with illnesses somewhere change there gender on a legal document so naturally. That’s pretty damaging to our nation isn’t it…? I can’t fathom the soldiers – black and white who fought for the country we all call home would In a million years have to start guessing if they are talking, dating, employing a male or female…? I know I didn’t get to choose what gender my children were gonna be at birth… DNA determined that one.

    Bigger problems, different mindsets, beliefs, environments, upbringing… keep that in mind.

    As for Seymour he has got to be every grandparents favorite. He’s got some wack ideas and facial expressions but as I’ve said “differences”

    Until Gangs under their leaders are storming homes, schools, shops, with their guns taking territory that isn’t theirs to take i thunk we should just be happy in who we are and not try to change things we can’t. If your upset you can’t act like the Gangs mourning did maybe you should join your local gang, or get a large group of people mourning together… have tunnel vision and just break the law. See what happens…? Maybe the same outcome. But you’d still emotionally be dealing with the death of someone you know and I’m sure no one’s optionally wanting that pain.

    If someone killed someone I knew, loved or respected from a different group of people and was out about without repercussions I know what I’d be wanting done about it.

    Every action has a reaction… black or white that’s just truth and facts do not care about feelings.

    Enjoy your friends readers ✌️

    • Can evangelical churches get roads closed for funerals, free of charge? Or is that privilege only for groups that you like?

      • Weight in numbers Sean, so yes if evangelical churches have the numbers, have they ever tried? Don’t you like gangs?

    • Bring back Winnie and NZF we need some policies in place to curb the growth of gangsterism in NZ and some policies to sort out our delinquent youth who are potentially aspiring gangsta’s ???

  18. ACTs absurdly incompetent,that much is very true.

  19. The neoliberal economic policies of the past 40 ~ 50 years have disenfranchised a now significant section from what was considered ‘normal’ society. The gang section of society is organised enough to know just what power they have.
    Luxon and Seymour show a significant lack of street smarts and resort to playing politics to their fan base.
    The media are absent in action by not demanding Luxon and Seymour spell out in detail how they would deal with these situations.
    Any party that still preaches the ‘build more prisons and lock them up’ policy is a danger. Such policy is no more believable than the ‘trickle down’ promise of neoliberal capitalism.

  20. I’d like to close a major road for a nice old man who has died lately, free of charge.

    Presumably, as this guy was actually not a career criminal, this should be a no brainer.

    Oh, wait, that’s only for gangs, not for us hateable bourgeouis hoi polloi.

  21. Good god, these people are simultaneously big tough and violent real men, but at the same time extremely fragile with their daddy issues? Bahahahaha. What next, talking about the politics of kindness and giving the same people $30 million for rehab who import the drugs?

  22. Organised crimes gangs are domestic terrorists. Using the tools and ideologies of military regimes, market piracy, government crime families and big pharma drug peddlers, they spread misery and ruin communities socially and economically. Gangs infiltrate and compromise government agencies which undermines our law and order, civil functions, international reputation, fairness and revenue. They show loyalty to generational violence and intimidation and attempt to pass this off as cultural kinship. They put road users at risk. They pack beat a single person (men and women). They treat the public with absolute disregard and sometimes they go on TV and project an image of hope and change. Apologists even portray them as victims. Their meth trade and standover tactics are sold as the gateway to luxury, glamour and social standing. This ethic is the antithesis of hard work and community for the future of New Zealand. No one wants to visit a country where armed thugs roam free and murder is a way of life for citizens. Ban gangs, their insignia and their symbols of hate. Ban these entities, don’t ban people speaking out and condemning their behaviour. If we can cancel one malcontent for killing multiple people at one time, then it has to follow logically that we should cancel groups doing the same thing to multiple people, week after week. Ban them from media and public spaces. Impose maximum sentences for participating in these heinous terrorist acts before they take the whole country down with them. Do the same for all criminals affiliated or not. These people must understand that this is abnormal and abhorrent behaviour which is not tolerated or wanted in society.

  23. “[What are NACT suggesting?]

    That armed Police (with the backing of the NZ Military) would suspend all civil rights and declare a state of emergency using martial law to open fire on Gang members who refuse to stop their funeral procession?”

    I mean, I would have thought they’re suggesting that they obey the law. Not martial law lol. Like, I personally get annoyed when I see gang members flagrantly disobey the law in lots of minor ways, mainly related to traffic infringements.

    Honestly, fine them for not wearing their seatbelt, slam them for running red lights, ensure that other members of the public can live their lives without their civil liberties being run roughshod over by these guys. It appears to me this doesn’t happen.

    There are two very fundamental reasons for the state to exist. The first is to protect against external threats, the second is to uphold the rule of law. It really annoys me that these guys, who are involved in a whole lot of other criminal activity, which is harder to pin, seem to be able to get away with all these minor offences en mass which I’d get pinged with.

  24. It’s even worse. Seymour now compares Opotiki to war torn Somalia capital.
    He has gone full core Qanon conspiracy theorist. I gather he believes every town should be an Epsom suburb..

  26. Interesting comments.

    Seems some are happy with two standards of law & some are not.

    A lot of arguing in between.

    Personally – I see the law needs to be black and white – clear as day or pure as new snow or it falters.

    The leeway’s we provide seem to be taken advantage of and compound issues in the community and society in general.

    When gangs kill each other in NZ everyone else gets caught having to sideline their lives or are directly affected.

    Doesn’t mean we don’t acknowledge this man was some ones brother or son but he chose a life that has a high occupational hazard in crime with violence.

    Unless we have serious gang laws passed or a society with improved housing, education & economy nothing will change – in fact it will get worse. Gated communities are starting to appear more than I ever thought because of this.

    Some urban areas are changing so fast

    This
    was
    a
    list
    of
    all
    the
    dumb
    shit
    I’ve
    seen
    this
    government
    do
    but
    it
    is
    too
    depressing.

    Just so much dumb shit when we know where the issues are – we don’t have ministers who can achieve – simple. Some one else needs a go!

  27. My wife was there at a separate tangi. Reports of lawlessness and fear were somewhat exaggerated.
    Seymour was clever enough with his words to only call the gang members “weak individuals”. It was their actions that he called subhuman.
    Heather DP seriously called for 500 frontline armed police to be sent to the tangi.
    Opposition mps were actually calling for ministerial interference in police operational decisions.WTF said Stuart Nash.
    I must have missed the reports in MSM of the final tally of the trail of mayhem, destruction injury and death that resulted from this event.
    I do understand that police gathered evidence on a number of relatively minor offenses and will be following their usual quiet and efficient inquiries.

  28. Bring back Winnie and NZF we need some policies in place to curb the growth of gangsterism in NZ and some policies to sort out our delinquent youth who are potentially aspiring gangsta’s ???

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