What I don’t think punters get yet is just how extreme a National/ACT Government would be.
Luxon believes in evangelical prosperity theory meaning his 7 properties are proof positive Jesus loves him. This false certainty of knowing he is blessed is what National are selling a frightened electorate, his self certainty, not the numerous counter-productive policy positions National keeps taking.
In short, people pissed off with Jacinda don’t care if National’s crime policy will cause worse outcomes, because we are all being political masochists angry at the current Government.
We are collectively cutting off our noses to spite our face here with National.
Because Luxon is only interested in the first class customers (those who can’t fly are ‘bottom feeders’), he’s too intellectually vain to bother with policy and prefers ‘management’ and in Christopher’s world, the little people do the policy stuff.
This is dangerous because David Seymour desperately wants a life beyond politics so will pass radical policy so he can hand on hart tell Free Market Satan he did all he could to mutilate the State before leaving ACT.
This means the quick yellow fox will jump all over the lazy blue log.
David will get all he wants from Chris who will be convinced his win is a sign from God.
The vast majority who have walked away from Labour to National don’t understand what they are getting yet with hard right policy from ACT.
Unfortunately for Labour, as they plunge in the polls, the Left’s woke activist base are screaming at everyone how racist, transphobic and sexist they all are which is electorally alienating as fuck.
That leaves space for NZ First to return to power.
They are just shy of 3% in the latest Taxpayers Union Curia Poll and were 4% in the Talbot internal poll last month.
If NZ First are 3% today, they are almost certainly 5% on Election Day. The extremism of National/ACT vs the woke nonsense of the Left make a perfect sweet spot for Winston to return, except this time he would be a handbrake on National/ACT Government AND the Labour/Green/Maori Party Government.
Only actual death can stop Winston returning to politics, and even then he could probably win if his name is still on the ballot.
How NZ First would alter the political make up of the next Government is an essential oversight to consider if you are trying to gain insight into election 2023.
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So the choices are, the devil you know, the devil you dont know or the devil you thought you knew but keeps changing sides to confuse you.
Fucked every way.
Jack- If the devil we know has not performed well, then giving it another chance could be a bad idea.
You’re a loser Jack. No imagination to think of other alternatives than those three, or what might happen differently if some new variable can be introduced into one that will change direction.
And when did you go round high fiveing the results of an election win mate?
When you’re political hopes rest on the shoulders of a social conservative in his 80’s things have gone bad.
Peter B If you’re referring to Peters’ age, I think he’s in his early 70’s, as sharp as a tack, and not easily cowered, unlike Ardern. Plenty of hair.
Peters is calling Mallard to account for some of his anti-protest antics, whereas Prime Minister Arden said the IPCA investigation would cover parliamentary staff behaviour, which is not true and never was. Mallard out and Peters in could raise parliamentary standards.
.
He’s 77.
Rosielee. He’s carrying his age well. The wisdom of the elders should not be lightly dismissed. In Mr Peter’s case, the fact that the Ardern leadership hid its Te Puapua scenarios from its own deputy leader, raises him in my estimation, it was really quite extraordinary.
Aligned with Chloe’s comment to Victoria University students that “ experience doesn’t count”, suggests that the government may be age-ist, even if it’s difficult discerning who they are for, apart from themselves, disc jockeys and pop singers. We need more grown-ups.
Thanks for your replies and apologies to young Winston – you’re right he adds color to parliament. NZ First are – surprisingly – leftwing on economic policy. This gets overlooked because they veer conservative on social issues.
you mean Biden?
“The vast majority who have walked away from Labour to National.”
Evidence? This was a low turnout byelection vote, not a Nat landslide.
Rosie and Co
Typical loser denial excuses! It was a landslide… a Labour pasting! That’s you Labour Fans biggest problem – you’re never ever self-critical. Just like Jacinda and Robertson. Everything is just dandy…even when it’s not! Labour were really doing so well, if the people were really comfortable with Jacinda and all her govt’s achievements and policies, especially those by sneaky stealth, then a current Labour cabinet minister like Tinetti, perfectly pleasant person, would have pulled many many more votes. In fact the ratio towards National has gone up. Good thing it wasn’t a high turnout as that would have probably been even more embarrassing for Labour! Tauranga has rejected Labour full stop. Auckland is next with only 20 odd percent polling for a Labour endorsed mayor candidate and 60% polling for right leaning candidates. Rosie and Co, get your next excuse ready for that one.
A valiant effort, Cabbage, and some of it correct, but basically Tauranga is full of people so old that they make Winston Peters look like a callow youth. They’ve always voted blue – the colour of granny’s hair – nothing particularly profound, and can be quite nice sort of people, albeit thick.
That’s dreadful labelling old people thick.
Jacindas appeasement (enrichment) of Luxons buddies has caused this shitshow. “Labour” does not exist.
Here’s a reasonably alternative.
Labour needs to stop the bullshit, stop the obfuscation and build housing. If this don’t have the talent within cabinet, and that is crystal clear, then get experts on the payroll and get it sorted. Even something as anonymous as plaster board had crippled an already dysfunctional market under your watch.
We have seen them walk away from the number one problem facing this country, maintain the National Party status quo and preside over the ever worsening mess that is happening.
I mean painting the alternative as worse ignores the fact the incumbent is so useless that it’s not worth the effort.
I understand there is so much building going on that suppliers can’t handle it.
The internal wallboard farce is holding it all up. Many many jobs on hold, waiting for product!
Exactly how is this not building enough, for you??
GreenBus, it’s just a continuing drone with no substance. Buildings are going through the roof( excuse the pun), we can’t get enough tradesmen to meet demand and the wallboard farce mentioned goes back to National’s days of importing everything cheap and cutting corners, similar to the whole leaky buildings disaster. It’s also a stark reminder of a certain right wing mayors abysmal tenure and what we can expect from Molloy…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/the-wellingtonian/3714519/The-Wellingtonian-editorial-Whos-to-blame-for-leaky-homes#:~:text=It%27s%20time%20the%20two%20parties,undertook%20to%20fix%20the%20problem.
“As if” there is not a whole beautiful bundle of Kiwis that did not want be forced to take a shot they neither wanted or need.
Tabatha Did they even actually want to be NZs those beautiful bundle of Kiwis? It is terrible that they should be forced to live in a country that tries to pull together and consider others so that disease isn’t spread and people get sick and debilitated and may never fully recover or end up dying leaving their families and communities without their support and love if they were caring people.
Those who don’t want vaccinations to help in being part of a healthy community should find an island that they can all live together on and congratulate themselves on how free and wonderful they are.
Follow the science.
https://twitter.com/SpacemanSteven/status/1537546073870409728?s=20&t=aPcIXjzLxV04KJ8KV7bGVg
Grey Warbler. “ Find an island that they can all live together on and congratulate themselves on how free and wonderful they all are.” Now that could be a nice practical solution to the gang problems too, islands.
There are thirteen uninhabited islands off the east coast of Ireland alone. Islands galore, fresh fish from the fresh North Sea, wind power, Trevor Mallard our man in Dublin to sort any probs from a safer distance than watching from a Bowen Street balcony listening to dopey music. The plot thickens.
He’ll be Labours only choice/chance to form a government in 2023!
We already have ideological extremism under the current Labour Government.
How is keeping the status quo extremist?
Haha, brilliant standalonecomplex .
Simply because that’s what we have.
Slow day at the retirement village boomer?
Status Quo.
Pretty low when you use “ retirement village “ when you mean it to be derogatory.
You mean we don’t already have “ideological extremism & political polarisation”, Martyn?
But yes, come back Winnie, all is forgiven! But please choose your “friends” better this time.
God forbid (ha!ha!ha!) that any Labour MP is ever outed as a practising Christian (out of that number there must be one or are they all of the alphabet letters – mind you, even they can be Christian), as they’ll get tarred and feathered as does Luxon. Mind you, there could be MP’s who worship at whatever shrine their religion is, but we won’t cast aspersions at those shall we……
people don’t bag fester for being an xtian…but for not publicly acknowledging what his brand of secret squirrel fundamentalism actually entails.
I don’t care what kind theological brand of fundamentalist you are, a feature of the entire breed is wanting to inflict the laws of your chosen sky pixie on the rest of us…and I for one am not avvin it.
The current government are extremists. Changing them with a new set of extremists will make no difference. What surprises me is people that think politicians actually give a damn.
Bomber, whilst there are many who have forgotten how bad an Act/Nat coalition may be, many of us havent. But we have a stark choice – Uphold our democracy at the cost of the underclass or watch our government unabashedly destroy our democratic traditions and still crush the underclass largely underfoot.
On the one side, we will hopefully get, democracy and some trimming down of the bloated Wellington bureaucracy and who knows, this could open the door for an improvement in hospital services (Not holding my breath but its possible, doesnt look to be possible under Labour).
On the other side, we flush democracy and the rule of law down the toilet. Maori are not the problem, it is the undemocratic move towards co-governance that is. Once achieved, free speech will go, democracy will go, authoritarianism will come and that’s everyone’s future gone, not just the underclass.
The Republicans for years have jiggeriy pokeried their elctoral system to achieve and keep power. Then Trump came along and bald faced said, we will use the electoral laws to justify an overthrowing of the popular vote. A bald face and planned attempt at a coup d’etat. Well shit happens but the worst of what he did was spit on democracy and the american people by forever damaging their democratic institutions.
Contrast this with Ardern’s co-government agenda. Hidden, continuing to be hidden. Did anyone see He Pua Pua come before parliament in April 2021 as we were told it would be. Media paid off with an absolute ban on discussing cogovernance or any aspect relating to Maori that isnt in favour. Operating practices in all or most govt departments rewritten to support co governance, legal moves afoot 3 Waters, Maori Health, Rotorua and Canterbury, DoC etc, uber positive discrimination in recruitment in govt etc
So what is the difference is between Trump and Ardern. One is a bald faced defiler of democracy with contempt for the average voter, the other is a sneaky defiler of democracy with kindness and contempt for the average voter.
I loathe Trump but in his favour he didnt openly attack free speech and had the balls to go out unapologetically with guns blazing. Ardern would far rather play dirty tricks and manipulate from a place of cover. Make no mistake, she is no different to Trump. Different animals, same Beast.
Hence I will vote for Zombie Winstone if that’s what it takes. Death will not keep him down!!!
Fabulous Fantail.
Great post and I agree atm the only sensible vote is for NZF
Well said Fantail.
In general I think relating everything political constantly back to Trump is usually Trump Derangement Syndrome and it makes my eyes glaze over.
But I happen to think you have hit on a real truth here.
Check this out:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue
“ A demagogue /ˈdɛməɡɒɡ/ (from Greek δημαγωγός, a popular leader, a leader of a mob, from δῆμος, people, populace, the commons + ἀγωγός leading, leader)[1] or rabble-rouser[2][3] is a political leader in a democracy who gains popularity by arousing the common people against elites, especially through oratory that whips up the passions of crowds, appealing to emotion by scapegoating out-groups, exaggerating dangers to stoke fears, lying for emotional effect, or other rhetoric that tends to drown out reasoned deliberation and encourage fanatical popularity.[4] Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so”
Explains a lot don’t you think?
Ardern and Trump, so different but so similar.
KCC very well put.
Yes it does absolutely.
Fantail Ok, you’re right as far as the current New Zealand government goes. The faux kindness alone is sickening, arrogance irritating, and redefining concepts like ‘transparency’ calls for the naughty corner.
If Luxon is willing to distance himself from the evangelicals as he’s done and not all evangelicals believe in the prosperity gospel we need to ask a question to him to see if he believes that. He’s obviously not suicidal, knows our cynicism about born agains.
JUSTIFIED cynicism of born agains
there fixed that for you sumsuch.
Seymour probably deserves his chance to be the main player in a National /ACT led Govt. Done the hard yards a lot longer than Luxon.
Oh please give me a break all this crap being spouted on this forum. Who ever lived through Roger Douglas et.al should be ashamed to foister another extremist right wing government on NZ. My goodness can you imagine those 2 parties fighting for control. Who do you think stopped any progress in Jacinda Arderns first government Winnie of course, get nothing done vote for Winnie unless of course it suits his own personal agenda. The crisis we find ourselves in ( not including covid) has been many years not 4 years in the making and those on this forum would be disingenuous to say any different. I can just imagine David Seymour’s first budget Ruth Richardson eat you heart out it will be the twerkers of all budgets and at what cost to New Zealand, the damage will be insurmountable .
What has Jacinda Ardern free of Winston Peters done in her second term?
See consumer confidence at the lowest point since recording it began.
Children in poverty.
Maybe Bob a small something like a pandemic might be a bit of a hindrance don’t you think.?
Yes Queeny certainly a hindrance I’ll grant you that.
Okay “Mark” the right-wing PRC colonist. Vote ACT for Featherston II you myopic fucking muppet. Please do it.
What I think the punters now get is how extreme the Labour – Green – Māori party are….