NATO has brought us to War

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Former Nato Commander calls for the alliance to be replaced with a new security architecture, because he says;

“NATO has brought us to War” 

A former Nato commander, Italian General Fabio Mini, said in a May 7 interview with AmbienteWeb that NATO should be dissolved because it has become a threat to world security, and that we are already on the brink of a third world war as a consequence of its flawed structure.

“NATO in its current configuration should be dissolved to create a new regional security structure more closely linked to the United Nations, rather than to a single member state, one which is more representative of Europe in the field of international security management,” he said. 

In its current form, General Mini says NATO restricts Europe’s capacity to determine its own defence and security. Putting the interests of the United Sates ahead of those of its European member states, all in violation of the Atlantic Treaty, “Nato has ceased to be a defensive alliance and instead become a security threat to Europe.

Addressing the Russia/Ukraine conflict, General Mini points out that wars are no longer confined to just military actions, but now include operations that use economic and financial weapons, and cyber attacks, which actually produce greater damage than conventional warfare. “And so we are now, effectively, in the middle of a global conflict – a world war,” he said.

And he says this has come about despite Nato protocols set in place to guard against it happening.  “Articles 5 and 6 of the Nato treaty, deal with mutual defence, and refer to the territories of individual member states threatened by armed attack. But Ukraine is not a member state,” said General Mini. “And yet we are supplying it with weapons and other aid.  And Article 7 states that nothing in the Nato treaty shall replace or displace the protections afforded any country under the Charter of the United Nations, or that of the Security Council, for the maintenance of international peace and security.” 

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 “Well,” says General Min, “Russia is a member of the United Nations, and Nato’s policy has infringed its rights, compromising the peace and security of the whole world.”

General Mini says, NATO puts the interests of the United States, and other states that incite war, ahead of the interest of its member states, all at the expense of European security and each in violation of the Atlantic Treaty.

“The interests of the United States have never coincided with those of Europe,” says General Mini, “…not even during the cold war when the hot war that was to take place in Europe, and not in the USA, was being prepared.”  And he blames the US for Nato becoming involved in conflicts outside its area of ​​responsibility, and for countries that fail to meet Nato membership requirements, being allowed to join.

Referring to the prospects of a peaceful resolution of the Russia/Ukraine conflict General Mini is not optimistic saying; “The main obstacle is that the United States does not want an agreement between the two countries at all. They want the elimination of the Russian ability to attack, which is equivalent to eliminating her defensive capacity!” 

Having been cajoled by the US to allow former Eastern bloc countries to join Nato, General Mini says; “New Europe” now finds itself hostage to the countries of “Old Europe,” which are less interested in Europe than they are in wreaking revenge on Russia for the years they were under its control. “And for this they are pampered and supported financially and militarily by the United States and NATO.” 

While theoretically Nato could refrain from involving itself in the conflict. “Unfortunately,” says General Mini, “under the current system and pressure from the United States, no one will object.” He says national sovereignty has become secondary to the need to avoid upsetting the United States and so risk being labelled its enemy.

“NATO will always be unanimous in obeying. The only salvation from war can only come from a backward step by the United States or from a split in NATO. I do not think either of the two is probable, even though it is now clear that the Washington-London axis is disturbing many European countries. If anything happens, it will be after the Ukrainian war. But that might be too late.”

References:

https://www.ambienteweb.org/2022/05/07/gen-fabio-mini-sciogliere-la-nato-perche-e-diventata-una-minaccia-alla-sicurezza-in-europa/

https://schillerinstitute.com/blog/2022/05/11/former-nato-commander-general-mini-replace-nato-with-a-different-security-architecture/

 

73 COMMENTS

  1. Is he saying that the EU, separate from NATO, would not even supply weapons to aid Ukraine despite the attack on it by Russia?

    That is going a lot further than just accepting a Russian veto in the UNSC of any collective security defence of a member state of the UN.

    His gripe, that the former Warsaw Pact nations have historic issues with Russia, that make them bad Europeans,

    He wants to blame everyone, but the Russians. The fear and appease the threat to be safe from conflict strategy. Is it a surprise when one considers how the mafia lasted so long?

    • Of course, is to blame for the invasion; but this chap is talking about the diplomatic failures which led to this invasion and the excessive influence the US, a country from the other side of the world, had on that failure. He is hinting at the possibility that the US, for its own venal interests, would prefer to see this war continued, on account of the damage it would do to Russia.

      • No he is objecting to NATO being involved in Ukraine’s defence – absurdly claiming this is a breach of Russia’s right to attack another nation, veto any UNSC action in response and then be “safe from anyone arming the nation” it attacked.

        This is way beyond criticism of NATO/US involvement in the earlier diplomatic failure, it is open advocacy for appeasement of Russia so the western part of the EU can be safe from the most mafia like nation in the neighbourhood (and its designs to return to hegemony in the east).

        • Russia has legitimate security concerns. Two Anti-Christs marched to the gates of Moscow from the western part of the EU.

          Russia will do what ever it takes to stop what is legitimately seen as an existential threat to the Russian nation.

          Washington DC neo cons have explicitly said they want a broken Russia and China to maintain USA/Israel “full spectrum dominance”.

          We are being lead into nuclear annihilation by these crazies and cheerleaders like you.

    • Of course, Russia is to blame for the invasion; but this chap is talking about the diplomatic failures which led to this invasion and the excessive influence the US, a country from the other side of the world, had on that failure. He is hinting at the possibility that the US, for its own venal interests, would prefer to see this war continued, on account of the damage it would do to Russia.

    • NATO has been training NAZIs and pouring weapons into Ukraine to kill these people https://www.bitchute.com/video/pBirmHxcqUOi/ ,,, and has successfully killed people in the video ,,, including at least one of the women …. NZ has paid for ‘lethal aid to do exactly the same thing to them…

      Watch it and identify who you would be comfortable killing ,,,, don’t pick on the ‘whale-oil’ lookalike DJ though ,,, he cant help how he looks ,,,, and dances on the inside : 2mins 50 secs

    • Russian MP etc now threatening to invade Poland and again clear that Nato likely to prove invaluable dissuading further invasions – we have all had it pointed out ad nauseam that a policy of appeasement was with hindsight flawed leading into WW2 and Nato is the embodiment of that lesson learnt.

      I for one hope that the Ukrainians manage to survive this unjustified invasion of an independent country and I am proud that the West including NZ is not standing idly by (and i completely understand why countries such as Poland who have actual living memory experience of living under Russian domination are so strident in their support of Ukraine).

      And again for all the Putin apologists on here – feel free to go over there and see how voicing your ‘independent & insightful opinions’ pans out for you . . novichoked by lunchtime.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/a-real-war-has-started-russian-state-media-warns-nato-nations-against-assisting-ukraine/I6A4PP2CR2I7MM7WCJEAYG5OHM/

      • “independent country”
        Germany was an independent country back in the thirties, so independence is no guarantee of a country’s good behaviour.

        • And the USA kept claiming that South Vietnam was an independent country with a ‘democratically elected’ government.
          Amazing how hindsight can make one cynical.
          But maybe guys like James Brown are too young to have learned when to be cynical.

    • SPC: do you know what’s been going on in the Ukraine, pretty much since independence, and certainly since the US-sponsored putsch in Kiev 8 years ago, and which has precipitated the Russian SMO in the Ukraine? It sounds as if you do not. I, on the other hand, having extended family connections back into the Donbass, do. I suggest that you do some reading. And please don’t quote anything at all from the MSM: it’s UK/US propaganda. Up to and including the Herald.

      • Personally I will stick to trusting the BBC over what you may be getting from your mad third cousin in the Donbass . .

        • ….. says james brown-shirt the racist Nazi apologist.

          Unlike james, D’Esterre obviously cares for the well-being of people in the Donbass ….

          We know james can read and knows about ,,, Poreshenko’s ‘puppet coup government launching it’s anti-terrorist-operation/ATO against Russian Ukrainians who were resisting the persecution against them in 2014 ,,, this operation created ‘free fire zones’ over designated areas/towns. 6000 dead in 10 months,,, 2014.’

          ….Therefore it seems clear he hates “filthy” Slavs/Russians ,,, It was you who described them that way james?? ,,,, I can’t be bothered re-reading your shite,, but I’m pretty sure that’s been one of your many pejoratives.

          I also bet D’Esterre feels sorry for the non-fascist Ukraine men, press ganged into the cynical contrived meat-grinder to die or be mutilated for a corrupt ‘shock doctrine’ Govt .

          This guy shown here will live ,,,, but this is the body shredding price the PDS crowd (Putin Derangement Syndrome), are asking these men to pay ,,, those that live that is.

          https://www.bitchute.com/video/8OYSuvPO2Gy3/

          • I have noticed ‘reason’ that all your crap seems to be coming from ‘bitchute’ . . which ironically seems to host a lot of far-right shit on it as well (sorry wasn’t familiar with ‘bitchute’ as I seem to become distracted with such unreliable MSM sources such as the BBC / New York Times /The Guardian etc) . .

            “BitChute is an alt-tech video hosting service launched by Ray Vahey in January 2017.[2] It describes itself as offering freedom of expression,[3][4] while the service is known for accommodating far-right individuals and conspiracy theorists, and for hosting hate speech.[a][b] Some creators who use BitChute have been banned from YouTube; some others crosspost content to both platforms or post more extreme content only to BitChute.[5][16] Before its deprecation, BitChute claimed to use peer-to-peer WebTorrent technology for video distribution,[2] though this was disputed.[17][18]”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitChute

      • D’Esterre: Well for a start you can’t even spell Donbas properly so I doubt your Russian connections very much. Putin is a criminal who uses Stalinist methods to subdue his own people with his FSB thugs and is now enforcing this on Ukraine. If Russia is such a liberal democracy why don’t you go over there? The only hope for Russia is Navalny.

  2. Very interesting. I do see a point where NATO will be dissolved, it’s usefulness has worn out, and there are often conflicts of opinion about its processes but exactly what it will be replaced with, I don’t know. I think we need to be careful here because there are a lot of budding organisations that could become dangerous without the presence of NATO.

    • Perhaps NATO should be dissolved, and replaced with a European only defense arrangement that did not include countries from outside Eurasia.

  3. An interesting comment. It holds quite a bit of truth as well. Sadly the UN has never been particularly good at doing anything promptly. Abandoning NATO right at the point where Russia is regurgitating its Soviet past might not necessarily be such a good idea…

  4. We do know that this war could have been avoided. The people of Ukraine did not want it. They voted for a presidential candidate who had promised to end the conflict in Donbas and who instead escalated it into a major world war. Clearly the people of Russia did not want war. Why else describe it as a “special military operation”?
    Closer to home, New Zealanders did not want to go to war and so Parliament had to draw them into the conflict by degrees, first saying it was providing humanitarian aid only, then “non-lethal” and finally “lethal” military aid to the Ukrainian forces.
    As a protege of Tony Blair, Jacinda Ardern is skilled in the art of obfuscation and luring a sceptical public to war, and as a former adherent of the Mormon faith she is accustomed to the idea that we in Aotearoa should follow the directives of “very, very good friends” in the United States of America who are supposedly “like minded”.
    So largely thanks to Labour, but giving due credit to National, ACT, the Greens, and Te Pati Maori, New Zealand is on a war course. In 1984 the Labour government opened New Zealand to global (more particularly Australian, US, UK, Canadian and European) capital and from that time forth the fate of the New Zealand economy was fully determined in Sydney, London, New York and Toronto with little reference to Auckland or Wellington. This year a Labour government has capitulated to the geopolitical and military ambitions of these same powers and New Zealanders’ fate as a people will be decided by the supreme commanders of military forces in NATO and “the Indo-Pacific”.
    With all due respect to General Mini, through the actions of the colonial regime under the “leadership” of Jacinda Ardern we have been put at much greater risk than the Italians. To save ourselves and our mana motuhake we must see the situation with absolute clarity and act accordingly. The ridiculous, disgraceful and pernicious colonial regime must be utterly destroyed. There is no other way out.

    • This is precisely why I am hoping that New Zealanders will see through our PM’s smiles and charm and choose to elect a National government to power in 2023. How can one possibly not see the perilous situations successive Labour leaders are putting our military might behind? If we’d had a National led Government now, sure, we would have had more deaths due to the coronavirus pandemic but we would not have put our military might into this war. That is not the same as saying that there’s six to one, half a dozen to the other. The coronavirus pandemic could not have been avoided, you see, but our involvement in this war could have been avoided.

      • Utter tripe Dan.
        Luxon from just 3 days ago talked about National focusing on “strengthening……….New Zealand’s contributions to Ukraine”.

        Which plainly means National wants to drag us further into war, not avoid it!!

      • Hi Dan
        I would be very interested to know why you firmly believe that National would not have reacted to the Ukraine op differently to how Labour has done?
        Cheers D J S

      • You are talking crap Dan . National would have done the same if not more to support a friend of the West and the USA and most National voters I know who back them .

      • There is a cross party consensus in the New Zealand parliament on the Ukraine war as there is on relations with the United States, the PRC and other great powers and also on fundamental economic and social principles (to be specific, economic neo-liberalism, globalism and social liberalism).
        This grand consensus extends beyond parliament to include other major institutions of the regime such as the fourth estate (the media) and civil service, police and armed services. There are of course some differences in emphasis, and differences about ways and means to the common ends (as in the debate over co-governance) but broadly speaking all parties from ACT to Te Pati Maori are in agreement over the big questions of the day. So it is not a simple matter of saying “We don’t like this party’s war policy or economic or social policy so we will vote for the other lot”.
        You can choose whether to have a “boofhead” or a “vibrant young woman” as head of government, you can choose to give representation to ethnic and gender based minorities, but you cannot choose whether to have war or peace and for the most part you cannot make policy choices through the ballot box.
        Such unity within the institutions of state might be taken as a great victory for common sense and the common interest, and proof of what can be achieved through the institutions of representative democracy.
        But before making that sanguine judgement one should ask two questions.
        First, does the unity of the political classes reflect unity, harmony and contentment within society as a whole?
        Second, can we be confident that the policies of the grand consensus will have the desired outcomes?
        My answer to both questions would be in the negative, and if I am right in my judgement then the single-mindedness of the political institutions in New Zealand should be seen as a source of weakness rather than strength. Without diversity of views and open debate the regime lacks the means to alter course except through a full on collision with the facts on the ground.
        The Ukraine war is a case in point. If New Zealand achieves its war aim of “a weakened Russia” and full restoration of territory to Ukraine that will only lay the foundations of the next conflagration between Russia and the west. If Russia prevails New Zealand will be in the familiar position of being on the losing side of yet another war. Although the impact of each of the recently unsuccessful wars of the Realm of New Zealand (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan) have been minor, in aggregate they have sapped the vitality of the state and society. An unsuccessful war with Russia will further erode the strength of the state, and a war with China – the next item on Jacinda’s agenda – will have catastrophic consequences regardless of whether it is won or lost.
        For better or for worse, the grand consensus leaves no way for the institutions of the colonialist state to avert such adverse outcomes. There is a way out of course, but it requires us to proceed in a different direction and under a different political constitution.

      • If that was the Tories we’d be on the front line like we were in Vietnam All the way with LBJ). Jacinda is a global leader (as Biden said) and is more aware of the international political scene than Luxon’s lot. The Tories have always been under the influemnce of the USA. Jacinda is also more respected overseas by all leaders than by teh nasty grumpy old right wing men and woman. We dont want NATZACT back on the scene as they’ll raise borrow $2bn, give tax relief to the rich then invite their property speculator mates with promises of subsidies for the interest on their mortgages and send kiwi’s to the battle grounds. They’ll reduce the housing waiting list by returning to 2017 and clear the motels and send them back to live in garages. cars, caravans, under bridges, living 15 to a house.

    • If NATZ make govt, Gerry and his friends will probably start bombing Fiji and other Pacific Islands to rid them of China’s presence. Jacinda has done the right thing and even Key supported that in Q & A at weekend. China just told NZ to stick to its independant stance and we have. All a Tory dirty politics beat up.

    • You have some strange logic Geoff Fischer. Ukraine never wanted war ever. Only Putin and his henchmen wanted war. When you are against the devil incarnate, what do you do? Some of the Ukrainian language policies were unwise and baited the bear. However it is not that difficult for a Russian speaker to learn Ukrainian anyway.

      • Ukraine was keen enough on a war with the Donbass for 8 years when there was a large power advantage in Ukrain’s favour. Not so much with Russia when the power imbalance is the other way. Very understandable. You might have noticed the US selects it/s foes that it chooses to make war on on a similar basis.
        D J S

      • Cantabrian: The only people who wanted this war are those who knew that they would not have to fight it, and I do not need to tell you who they were.
        It is all very well to say to a people that you have conquered or dispossessed “it is not that difficult .. to learn our language anyway” but that is a good way to make enemies and no way to make friends.
        This was an avoidable war which was provoked and encouraged by the outsiders who are currently profiting from it.

        • You do need to tell me who they are. Your big problem is myopia.The sanctification of V.V. Putin as if he is some saint taking on the wicked US and its cronies. It is not like that at all. Putin is a kleptocratic evil monster who never made it as a top KGB officer. He resented Litvinenko who out ranked him. Elimination of opponents is Putin’s stock in trade.

  5. NATO from it’s inception has been an adjunct of the US that’s why prior to this Llittle local unpleasantness many in the EU had been talking of a separate EU army free from american influence and control, which I personally think is one of the drivers of the US funded brexshit subversion…tories paid to do the yanks bidding in the vain hope the EU would split up….didn’t quite work that way though did it…instead the UK is an example of why not to leave the EU….ask the poles and the hungarians who’ve quit their bitching about the EU.

    cue–scalded cat screams from brexshiteers.

  6. He talks straight and good SENSE.
    NATO neocons and their n a z I proxies started this shit storm a we’ll be lucky to see any peace out of it for a good long time and Goddamn ’em;
    because they sure have goddamned us.

  7. Nato/World Bank, I dunno, all roads lead to Washington DC where the Pelosis vacation and have a laugh at the price of wine….dear Jens Stoltenberg, this arms proliferation scheme would be better accepted were it a proliferation of cooking pots. It is hard to get used to the concept of free public transport but state of the art personal transport is reserved for the rabid and the rich and the ultimately soulless. Were you to devise a scheme whereby you could control the world’s private transport register would you not indeed be a rich fella?

  8. Thanks for your contributions everyone, and special thanks to Geoff Fischer for his cogent and concise comments on where we find ourselves and why, echoing Antonio Gramsci (another Italian) all those years ago. It’s to be hoped that those whose views are still captive to the propaganda might give them more careful consideration.

    • Malcolm, thanks for getting a column on this site that takes a heterodox approach. So many commenters here repeat so much msm nonsense and propaganda in the most uncritical way. Its nice to see that some people are both curious to establish facts and then think about what can be deduced. Well done.

  9. If either the Minsk 1 or 2 agreements had been followed Ukraine would have kept the Donbass and officially recognised the LDR and DDR without further bloodshed.
    Peace was never an option for the US and along with the usual cabal of allies they have been working diligently to drag Russia into a proxy war with the express aim of weakening Russian defences.
    Although neutrality of the the Ukraine has always been a red line for Russia this has been the weapon the US and their allies (with NZ support) have used to destabilise the area.
    Make no mistake this is just a prelude to the frightening empirical overreach of the US and co. in regards to China which seems, sadly, inevitable with how far right the US has dragged the world in their respective foreign policies no matter the respective party’s ideology.

    • There was nothing in the Minsk agreements that said Ukraine had to recognise the puppet governments in Luhansk and Donetsk. The main driver of anti-Russian policies in the region is Poland. Poland has had many interests in Ukraine in the past. Poland is the most pro-US nation in Europe. The reason for this was the subjugation of Eastern Europe by Stalin starting in 1945. Who can blame them? It is an oversimplification to say that this war is a proxy war between Russia and the US.

      • the thing is the poles have never been shy about seizing their neighbours territory and like a bit of ethnic cleansing as much as any eastern europian…the poor little poland thing is wearing very thin..especially in it’s current autocratic theocracy phase.

        • Yep – the Poles and Ukrainians seem to be no better than the Russians when one looks at history.
          Yet we are now being fed exclusively Ukrainian propaganda, and suckered into believing it.

        • I find your remarks to be offensive and racist Gagarin. Have you been to Poland or Russia for that matter? I think you need to read some serious history about the area instead of making sweeping generalisations about the people. Norman Davies’ History of Poland would be a start.

  10. All that I can say in Putin’s favour over Hitler is his ambitions are limited. He’d stop at the border of the former USSR.

    • Sum, I reckon Vlad will quite happily remain within his borders. Poland merely represents a belligerent nation that has no economic worth, ditto Ukraine, the Baltics and Balkans. They all represent borderlands that Germany and France launch aggresion across. Vlads absolute best option is to control Europe economically through gas, oil etc. The USA is of no economic help to Europe which if it is to prosper will need to be friendlier to Russia.
      It seems that European politicians cannot see that they are powerless and redundant, their populations however are getting the picture reinforced daily as prices soar. Expect a new Europe to emerge.

      • I’m very happy to see Europe’s resistance to Putin. The memory of Hitler brought them out of their self-centred cocoons. Re-energised democracy after 40 years of neoliberalism. Despise the trend of the comments here.

      • Nick J, what a senseless comment. Poland is nothing like as belligerent as Russia! Putin hates them because they beat up the Bolsheviks in 1919. My grandfather fought the Bolsheviks as well. Then you had Soviet aggression in 1939 with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and the Katyn forest massacre. Go and read some history Nick J and stop talking rubbish.

  11. evidence of re-energised democracy in europe please…nb anti russian statements are not a measure of ‘democracy’….so examples of increased democracy in europe please…ta muchly sumsuch

    • Where is the democracy in Russia Gagarin? Many Russians want democracy too but they can’t even protest against the war without being arrested. The sad fact is Russia’s military and FSB,GRU etc need to be beaten down to size so they cannot oppress the Ukrainians or their own people any longer.

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