There is a real danger in NZ Politics that when you attack policy as racist to Māori we play the ‘is it racist’ game where everyone screams it is or isn’t, everyone goes back to their polarised corners, nothing progresses.
We’ve done it with Police shootings, we’ve done it with Police taking photos of kids and we did it with the vaccination rates.
Back in November 2021 when we were chasing vaccination rates, there were 159, 810 Māori unvaccinated, 42, 183 Pasifika unvaccinated and a staggering 317, 544 Pakeha who are unvaccinated!
By constantly screaming vaccine hesitancy is a Māori and Pasifica problem, we let 317, 544 Pakeha off the hook!
I fear we’ve done the same thing with child poverty.
Right now there are 156,700 children in poverty in households with less than 50% median equivalised disposable household income before deducting housing costs (BHC), 53,600 identify as Maori, 72,600 identify as pakeha.
There are more white children in poverty than Māori children and that might be difficult to visualise because the focus is almost exclusively on Māori children.
Yes, proportionately these stats hit Māori hardest, but by allowing that to decide the entire focus of the debate we ignore the far larger numerical problem of those issues impacting poor White families and that allows an escape to scrutinize what’s really happening.
By constantly blaming Māori we can’t see that this is a failure of neoliberalism that cascades across race. Look at the chart above, the poverty rate soared post Rogernomics!
It’s not an identity issue, it’s a class issue exacerbated by a neoliberal economic hegemony that purposely rigs the system!
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But we don’t see the poor white people. If only they killed their children more, we would know about them.
Glen – Pakeha do kill children, possibly at higher rates than Maori; the stats have been published at odd times and will be accessible. It does suit some Maori to appropriate issues and victimise whatever they can regardless of accuracy or the bigger picture, to toe the line with the global Indigenous anticolonialist narrative, some of which, most unfortunately, can be a bit warped and divisive.
I’d like to see the figures broken down, where are they hollyhock
Gagarin. Within the last 12 months child murders per se have been addressed online, with ethnic profiles. I currently recall two separate instances of white killings in the Wairarapa, with two little girls in the same family. Media may give the impression that child abuse and child murder is predominantly a melanin issue, and this enables it to be stereotyped as a Maori problem, but it needs to be recognised as a societal problem.
Sue Bradford’s anti- smacking bill was an important first step in addressing family violence and I think it’s fair to say that it was white right wing commentators who objected the most vociferously, on the grounds that government had no right to interfere in how parents disciple kids, and that unreasonable force was already covered in criminal law. The best thing John Key ever did was supporting that legislation.
ok no1 not accusing just inquiring, I don’t need a lecture on ‘media perception’ that’s why I ask the question..but as you are unable to produce the alleged breakdown………………..
Gagarin. You can probably find all this if you want to; sorry, I’m busy, might be able to tap someone about it tomorrow.
cheers I’m genuinely interested in ending the public debate one way or another.
the only study I could find was an old one from chch which resulted in maori having higher ‘child abuse’ rates no mention of child killings.
If you were to base it on blood quantum. They’d all be pakeha children who have been murdered G.
Poor white people AKA white trash. These are the white people who are just like the brown people. But they are letting us down and are quite frankly an embarrassment to us civilised white middle class. Therefore we should just ignore them, they don’t exist.
Civilised white middle class my arse what a disgusting comment. And how did white middle class become middle class, cause the colonials settlers were mostly lower class which is why they came here in the first place.
johns just being a prick for the sake of being a prick
Hey it’s ok, I’m actually white trash myself. I grew up in a pretty bad neighbourhood, so white trash , natives and other darkies etc. So I’m only repeating what’s been said to me by my betters (By that I’m talking about middle class woke white people I’ve worked with) Most of whom think that I’m just like them! But fuckme the look of horror when they find out where I came from.
So true.
John There’s nothing wrong in being a Martian. I’m from Venus. Both are better than Dipton, Wanganui,
Bishopdale, Lower Hutt, Ashburton, or being donged by the University of Waikato.
Hollyhock, well you’re obviously further along the evolutionary tree than I am (me being white trash) and or course as you have agreed, You are far better than the darkies natives and other people of colour.
Maybe you and all the other woke middle class white people could round up the white trash in Dipton, Wanganui, Lower Hutt Bishopdale & Ashburton. Put us in cattle trucks, take us to a camp. Give us a Zyclon B shower. And the to the ovens. No doubt that would be to final solution to create the world you wish to live in
John, it seems that your satire went straight over their heads.
LOL
Yes I also read it a satire.
Well said Bomber – Finally, someone on the left with the balls to confront this issue. Of course, Maori are disproportionately disadvantaged and will be therefore disproportionately advantaged if we build more state homes, lift incomes, improve public health care, reduce domestic violence, and improve primary literacy – but only if we focus on the job at hand and not the race of the afflicted child. Focusing on Maori health, Maori poverty, Maori domestic violence is the job of Iwi themselves, whereas central government needs to focus on health, poverty and domestic violence for all New Zealanders (including those Maori who are disproportionately effected by problems in these areas). A focus on ‘Maori child poverty’ is an arrogant and stinging dismissal of 72,600 poor pakeha kids. Let’s build more state homes, improve our health system and reduce domestic violence – that’s what these kids need – not more banal beltway racial guilt, half truths and half-policies from Wellington mandarins.
seconded jason
And again.
“As prime minister I want to see urgent progress in this area. That is why we will be introducing measures and targets to ensure our policies across government are making a difference to the lives of children.”
October 2017….looks like another Labour non delivery almost 5yrs after her quote above.
Well I have to agree on one aspect, she did indeed tell the truth on… ” ensure our policies across government are making a difference to the lives of children.”….making them WORSE!!
What would your reaction have been had he PM and her government honoured the commitment by overturning neo-liberalism and had reacquainted the country with socialist polices that previously served to country well?
@AOM….then she would have kept her promise, kept her commitment then!
She hasn’t and didn’t….whataboutisms/whatifs makes no difference, child poverty is worse than when she took the reigns of PM!
No ifs, no buts.
Apparently, the policies in place before Rogernomics did serve children well by keeping more of them out of poverty.
Really?
Civilised white middle class my arse what a disgusting comment. And how did white middle class become middle class, cause the colonials settlers were mostly lower class which is why they came here in the first place.
Civilised white middle class my arse what a disgusting comment. And how did white middle class become middle class, cause the colonials settlers were mostly lower class which is why they came here in the first place.
Civilised white middle class my arse what a disgusting comment. And how did white middle class become middle class, cause the colonials settlers were mostly lower class which is why they came here in the first place.
Covidispa. Respect for our history please, Michelle. Read it. Read it and you may reconsider your stereotyping colonial settlers in the way which you always do, and your determination to entrench social divisiveness by wrongly demonising all contemporary Pakeha. Not a wise game to play, but, I suggest, doing exactly as the masters of the universe want you to.
I’ m right according to Stats NZ you are not ( right). The target was missed but to say the overall number got worse is not true.
“In the year ended June 2021, 13.6 percent of New Zealand children (156,700) lived in households with less than 50 percent of the median equivalised disposable household income before deducting housing costs. This was a decrease over three years from 16.5 percent (183,400) in the year ended June 2018. The intermediate target of a reduction to 10.5 percent for this measure was not met.”
The ‘rules’ changed, Labour ALWAYS do away with measurements/targets or they change the way the measurements are measured when they become Govt.
Look at the numbers (and the measurement format) pre October 2017, and after….they change the way calculations are calculated, and by jingo…it’s always in their favour as the numbers are always down…or up, if a rise in something is needed.
Bahahaha, your figures change to suit your argument or theirs?
You’re a joke.
Spot on I’m right.
Fabulous
“It’s not an identity issue, it’s a class issue exacerbated by a neoliberal economic hegemony that purposely rigs the system!”
Identity politics the shiny bauble diverting middle class progressives since Occupy Wall Street.
yup
Good heavens what does that mean?
Maybe the problem is not that Government are blaming Maori for being poor, but Goverhemnts are blaming white people for the poverty of Maori today cause ‘systematical racism’. And so as long as we blame white people and their “inherited white privilege and coloniserdom = wealth” for the poverty of Maori or PI, we can not also point out that white people are also poor or even poor in larger numbers. And that is what we do now.
It is an identity issue, because our classless suits in Government made it one. And it is profitable to them, and as long as it will be, they will continue to treat is as an identity issue to the detriment of anyone else too. Winners? Only the classless dudes and non-dudes in Government, NGO, Charities, Moteliers, and other highly paid bottom feeders hanging off the trough of Government welfare.
Great to see that some one is finally acknowledging the elephant in the room.
Maori are but a subsector of a wider group of people all facing the same difficulties.
However the people in power insist that Maori are a distinctly different specie of human to the rest of us. That only Maori are failing in health, education, employment, crime and by every other measure. And the solution is more money specifically for Maori.
Maybe if they wernt identified as “different” but just with others in a similar predicament, better more durable policy could be put in place to lift all, not just the chosen few who happen to carry a bit of early settler DNA
Nicely put Clifford j.
Great insight Bob. Except, the common denominator is neoliberalism, which sold off all the state’s income-generating publically owned assets.
With these assets sold off by the ACT party in its various iterations, the BRT to corporate bloodsuckers like Sir Michael Fay and Sir Ron Brierley et al, then Sir John Key, there no more government assets left to provide social financial safety nets for white, brown and other low-paid kiwis.
They had to be Government subsidised that’s why they were sold.
They didn’t make any money.
Bullshit. Why is it subsidised when it’s for the social good and prudent investment when it’s handouts to farmers? Or businesses? I suppose it will be that money magically trickles down to the poor if it’s a “handout”, but it is used as a club to beat the poor down every election cycle?
It’s part of our politics DNA – the National Party does not care about the bottom third of society and identifies as a white (and male leadership – currently the promise keeper pentecostal type) middle class party. And the early arrangement of Maori support for Labour was on the basis that the dispossessed indigenous people had common cause with the working class party.
It’s become confused because of the one New Zealand line of Don Brash, Winston Peters and David Seymour and Christopher Luxon rejecting a hand up for Maori, restored chieftainship in delivery of services and indigenous peoples rights of partnership with the national government in management of their historic resources (land and water). Which has been deliberately misrepresented as a threat to democracy (some sort of CRT challenge to white majority rule …).
We can restore Maori mana with indigenous peoples partnership rights (and connect it to Treaty honouring too) and improve delivery (as part of restoring the chieftainship taken along with their lands) – but as Jason put it we can give them a hand up by doing so to all those in the botttom third who are neglected for every term of a National government.
so further entrench the corrupt iwiocracy that do little or nothing for actual maori…yup that’ll sort out poverty.
It’s the population percentage numbers Martyn that make things look at a disadvantage to Māori descendents …Smaller population numbers with high representation in all the disadvantaged stat’s seems to be something we just don’t know how to deal with…..As we get more touchy-feely as a society any criticism of Māori descendant’s is seen as racist , and I feel good caring folk are just not saying anything , not wanting to be labeled racist…..Is more money directed at descendants going to help.? Health , education , trade’s training, higher education all seem to be under the spotlight….but the results do not seem to be that great…..would I be correct in saying that….I can give an example of perhaps why things are not going as well as expected…I was waiting for a flight at the airport and met up with a high up chap in a certain tribe…We got discussing the closure of schools around the country..A specialty of the now speaker of the house…and I suggested the tribe could get hold of some prefabricated classrooms and set up a iwi school to teach young kids carpentry…even a woodwork class might be spare….My friend looked at me and said…..” why should we have too “ ….
It’s 2022, I’m sure we could fashion a device that detects skin pigment and plots it onto a monochrome gradient scale. Then all NZ children can be ranked from white-to-black.. with funding granted accordingly.. with extra funding for children with documented Maori ancestry of course.
The above sounds rooted in racism to me, the left call it “targeted” and “fair”.
It’s like teaching Te Reo Maori, sounds nice, expect NZ kids are largely illiterate. Wouldn’t it be better to focus on teaching kids English vowel and consonant sounds FIRST~?? Soon more “Pakeha” children will speak Te Reo Maori than Maori children AND the education system’s literacy results will be worse than ever.
Unions are probably blocking charter schools and ruining NZ education. There are many adult Te Reo Maori courses around which is great, but what about reading recovery for children and adult literacy courses? Again, things like NZ Maori history are great.. but students need to be able to read the textbooks first.
The way things are going the Maori elite will have to start seeding their power to trans-racial Maori (Pakeha with no Maori ancestry). The left eats itself when its’ philosophies are taken to their logical extremes.
I don’t have children so meh.. but I’d prefer not to be stabbed in the back by a 12 year old while walking down the street.
https://www.corrections.govt.nz/resources/research/over-representation-of-maori-in-the-criminal-justice-system/3.0-early-life-environmental-influences/3.6-other-findings-from-longitudinal-studies
Great research that shows poverty alone does not account for violent offending (nor ethnicity). It is dysfunctional family life including violence, physical punishment and substance abuse.
Yep and a National Party white, pale, stale evangelical male, with 7 houses will fix all this poverty overnight, just like John Key did when he visited McGeehan Close? https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2016/12/mcgeehan-close-has-life-changed-for-residents-under-john-key.html
With slash and burn David Seymour as Finance Minister? The NACT neoliberal transformation will be complete:20% GST, 20% flat tax and 20% business tax – oh btw 20% unemployment to drive down wages. Seymour will be expendable as the 20% Neoliberal plan is completed.
Good luck with that New Zealand. Even Mike Hosking and Kate Hawkesby will reconsider leaving to go to Oz to stay in New Zealand to help out with poverty?
And when the 20% neoliberal ACT Seymour revolution is complete, Seymour will go live with his robot.
KeyLuxon will retire to landlord heaven, leaving the poor to wait for another Labour Government to try and create a social contract.New Zealand, if you think poverty is bad under a Labour government, use your f*cking imagination and think what it would be like under a 20% NACT government?
@ Mike Judge….Labour have been the Govt for 5yrs this year, yes yes let’s go into ‘whataboutisms’ and ‘whatifs’ as a leftie that’s just a cop out. ohhhh look, a squirrel tactic…now Mike, back to reality/the present/not an alternate ‘whatif’ the actual govt of 5yrs and explain why the stats are fucking terrible…according to your ‘squirrel’ outlook it would be worse, but no explanation apart from brining up National/Key!
It’s hard for a leftie to admit your saviour in St Jacinda has failed….why has it failed?
Don’t tell me ‘9yrs of neglect?’…hell even Labour are not using that line anymore lol, ohhh I know ‘Rogernomics’!
From a Labour minister no less, and 40yrs to dismantle it but Clarke and St Jacinda haven’t even touched it…
You are right – another right-wing troll blah blah white pale stale male.
More misogyny again from you Eggsteins and Donnadummasses.
It was Helen Clark and Jacinda Arden, not “Clarke and St Jacinda”
You right-wingers all the same, get some therapy.
Sooooo Mike, attack the messenger and not the message?
I guess asking your political opinion/insight as to why Labour have failed in the major stats is meaningless as you cannot do it without going back in history (Labour have been the Govt for almost 5yrs now) or the classic ‘would be worse if National/ACT were running the show’….BUT they are not Mike, so…..again I ask, have you any ideas or political assumptions why Labour and St Jacinda have failed in so many key areas?
Guess it’s easier for you to call others, who do not agree with your version of politics, trolls and far right wingers. Not cross your mind to even put up an idea or three of your own as to what policy you believe would work or indeed what current policy needs to stop/change?
I’m asking too much I know, perhaps ask your wife?
Blah blah blah white, pale, stale male, with an overdeveloped right forearm.
Can’t even use an apostrophe in your Eggstein troll-name?
St Jacinda, more misogyny from you and your Eggsteins. A polite (sic.) misogynist troll name for Jacinda Ardern – say her name!
You’re right-wing you are, but you’re definitely NOT right. Leave my wife out of this Eggstein.
I’m Right aka Whale Oil.
Thanks for that heads-up bert – I didn’t realise that Judith Collins’ best mate was here on TDB? I thought he preferred the rabbithole-idea-cesspit of BFD?
Gee I think your getting upset MJ.
The apostrophe is a lost art for you Eggsteins! FFS bob…..You‘re bob, not your. Don’t they at least give you some basic grammar at the Eggstein and Donnadumass Troll School?
Gosh Bob/John, do you really need to comment on every comment?
Have a fantastic teacher called Bert.
Very interesting Anker – so it is not our ‘racist justice system’ after all, that is responsible for high Maori incarceration rates. It is exactly as some courageous Maori like Alan Duff have already noted – Why are there proportionally more shit Maori parents than shit pakeha parents? (notwithstanding that the vast majority of Maori parents do a great job, and there are many pakeha parents who do a lousy job) And more importantly, why is the incidence of shit parenting increasing generally across our country? No doubt poverty has some influence here – if things are financially tough it is harder to be strong and caring – but not impossible and too often poverty is used as an excuse, by middle class pakeha people who wouldn’t know what poverty was if it kicked them up the backside. When we are prepared to have an adult conversation about this high level of ‘shit parenting’ in our country- then we can move forward on many issues – including domestic violence, education disparities and crime. country.
one of the reasons could be ‘middle class shit parenting’ my little ronnie isn’t a psycopathic little bastard ‘he’s on the spectrum’ little julie stabbed that boy in the eye cos ‘patriarchy’
part of our problem is parents want to be bezzies with their kids, that’s not the job and no one is ever responsible for anything from pollies down to little ronnie..
100% Gagarin
This cycle of poverty and anger will not stop until every child born is a wanted child born to a family that has a good warm and dry home at an affordable rent or mortgage. As they grow quality child care is available to all the the children who at 5 progress to a school where classes are limited to no more than 20 with 2 helpers to attend to the less able integrated children. Teachers should once again be on the same salery as MPs . The return on this investment will be in 15 years as these happy intelligent children move into uni or trades missing out time spent on breaking the law and a future in prison . The costs and problems involved in getting immegrants to fill holes in the skilled labour force.would be avoided and we would have a happy country.
Surely I cannot be that hard !
yup trev that would certainly be a start.
Trevor – that would be a good start but would require a government that does things, builds things rather than bans things and eschews virtue signaling.
Well, when you have half the caucus that only seem interested in helping their own race Labour has set itself up to be divided and conquered by neo-liberalism. Those 72,000 pakeha kids in poverty are just using their “White Trash Privilege” to ruin the Prime Minister’s poverty KPI.
?
Too many people judge others, be it race, age, education, number of houses. We need to bring the elites down. Its time to wreck them and ruin them, show them how it feels.
That sounds like judgement?
Yeah let’s start with Ardern and Roberston.
LINO doesn’t care about maori either, their aim is to coddle the iwiocracy which will then do the job of suppressing maori for them…kinda like wot the british did do.