Luxon is from the Corporate NZ world where Executives have to learn Te Reo, perform a song and do a Pepeha while never mentioning race relations ever again.
He can’t criticise co-governance because his DNA is frightened of offending anyone and because his angry white base want him to be far more offensive than he could ever be.
That leaves him looking like he’s frightened of the debate ACT have called for on co-governance and he’s been left with only attacking the Māori Health Authority which is politically schizophrenic when you consider it was National that set up the framework of co-governance which Luxon is now denouncing!
The Māori Health Authority aren’t even a seperate system, it’s a board split 50-50 that decides Māori Health priorities. Painting that as a seperate system doesn’t understand the words ‘seperate’ or ‘system’.
The game changer here is that Seymour has made the referendum on co-governance a bottom line in any negotiation with National.
I think this could ignite on the Right and trigger an MMP dynamic that could see an overhang.
It is not impossible to see that the pull for a referendum on the Right could be so great that National voters vote National for their MP and ACT for their party vote.
If National win more electorates than Party vote it forces an overhang which pushes up the total numbers the Left need to get a majority, which could require Labour and the Greens to reach out to the Māori Party to win.
That in of itself would add fuel to the polarisation of the debate.
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Well put Martyn,
Good to see someone actually understands how MMP works
Current polling when applied to electorates (rather than just total seats) predicts the Nats to probably take back the 18 seats they lost to Labour. If vote spliting takes place on a large scale, say 20 +% a 130+ seat parliament is possible.
I suppose if you look at it this way.
Race based arguments are easier than doctrine based imaginary belief systems like we have at the moment with the mental goods and Marxist Stalinista’s from the burbs.
At least in the race argument you know who your enemy is. Where as the with the other lot, they seem to have a split personality. A bitsa belief in all sorts of bs doctrines they’ve dreamed up in their widdle bubbles.
Bring it on!
all belief systems are imaginary that’s why they’re called BELIEF systems….EVEN YOURS tane
Martyn
With your understanding of the word system and the word separate and how MMP works, I’m surprised you aren’t leader of the majority? Surely it would be a piece of cake?
Bang! At least someone is getting it. This was an exceptional move by Seymour and everyone including Te Reo Luxon knows it. The problem with co-governance is the same problem we have had with covid. Left-leaning and young people naively believe co-governance will be the silver bullet that will take the bottom 40% of Maori out of poverty and welfare dependence. It won’t. It will just make the tribal elite more financially and politically wealthy.
All parties know this deep down in their heart but only Seymour has the balls to publically say this as the balance are knee deep in the swamp that created this.
Finally the right is getting it’s shit together as Te Reo fights for the middle, feminine vote and Seymour courts the right, masculine vote. If only he had the balls to back the removal of vaccine passes earlier Act would be in the high teens by now.
Sorry to disagree Frank but amongst my friends of a similar age there is no big desire to be vaccine pass free .Many are right leaning and business friendly but enjoy the added comfort of knowing fellow dinners or drinks are vaxed and not part of the loopy brigade not vaxed . Some places I know have decided to keep,passes as a means of atraction.
Australia is back to normal. We are living the dream over here with lovely weather, hardly any inflation, cheap food, cheap fuel. You are being fooled by your master. Get on your VPN’s and find out what is happening in the real world. Escape tyranny.
That explains why so many Kiwis high tailed it back here when covid hit and still do when they need cancer treatment despite them paying taxes in Aus and compulsory super and Aus is sending back 501s who learnt their criminal trade in Australia. Fair dinkum nah!
Big difference between being anti vax or being anti mandate.
Government and their sponsored media have worked very hard to conflate the 2 things.
Granted there is a large selfish demographic of retired people and public servants who are very happy to keep everyone locked up indefinitely to increase their own chance of protection by 0.001% while suffering no financial ill consequence from restrictions unlike working kiwis and small businesses.
ACT disappointed some purists by not being anti mandate, it was obviously a political trade off to not be tarred by the anti vax brush.
Until polls began showing reasonable support for the protests and ACT suddenly “realized” mandates were no longer needed -who knows if it works for them or against.
kCC I think the protest in Wellington did the job of conflating everything by having a melting pot of messages and theories. You can’t blame the media for what was visible to the naked eye.
Wheel, there were a bunch of different messages on display weren’t there.
That’s the point.
It may have been white noise to you and those in the tower of orthanc looking down – especially with a media refusing to give balance- but 30% of NZ could relate to enough to slide support for the government considerably.
Even protesters have said their messages got lost and over taken by arseholes that turned up with less than helpful behaviour.
Frank how do you make such sweeping statements. It wasn’t left leaning or young people that put the framework in place as Martyn points out. It was (conservative, and a few miles on the clock) legal minds that realise, no matter how you try and paint it, that something needed to be done to attempt to redress past wrong doing (the same crowd that signed us up to the UN Indigenous Rights thingy). They can also see co governance as an alternative to forking out a loads of cash in settlements.
After the bottom feeder comment I am not sure I agree with Martyn that Luxon is too frightened to offend. Didn’t Luxon say the government hasn’t explained what co governance actually means? I am not sure that can be classed as denouncing or, if he is, he looks pretty stupid denouncing something that is not defined!
Yes Frank, it surprises me that the other parties can’t see that their opposition to a referendum is politically damaging. The people deeply resent being told that their opinion counts for nothing, just STFU and we’l do what we want – like Labour did in hiding their divisive agenda pre the last election. If they all had any sense they’d be saying let’s incorporate a referendum into the next election. Labour, by hitching their horse to He Puapua will see them out. Good riddance as far as I’m concerned but, by taking co governance out of the equation, they might have some show. You can’t reason with ideologues or though.
So why create a framework DG? Were National supposed to have a referendum? Were they secretly plotting to divide the country? Of course not because it makes no sense politically.
I am not even a fan of the PM but I can see a good chunk of the division in this country is more about self interest for a lot of people, and delusional thoughts for others.
As for that utter tosser Seymour, he has just come out and said of the out going DG of Health, our COVID response has been a disaster from start to finish. From a health perspective what utter bullshit. How can Seymour be taken seriously
Which says a lot about the types that would vote Seymour Wheel. Tell me again what doctorate in health Seymour holds again?
Fuck he even failed in Dancing With the No Stars so no chance he’d know anything on health.
I’d live National to run a candidate in Epsom and rid ourselves of the racist, misogynistic that once and for all.
“He EVEN failed at DWS so he knows nothing on health”. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Fucking stupid.To equate failing at DWS with any sort of political performance shows your intelect is at kindergarten level. So when are you turning 4 so we can send a clown to entertain you?
A moron telling someone how stupid they are just makes them more of a moron, Richard Sivell, coward.Not only that you no nothing of politics, you are a retarded embryo.
You’re describing the farming of the ‘deplorables’ that haunt and polarise American politics…thankfully we don’t electoral colleges…
Co governance was established by ACT and National in coalition Frankie and Seymour is attempting to denounce this.
Actually Seymour sees this as his only way to retake votes lost to National. It is his Orewa moment.
I believe that our indigenous citizens ought to have more political power and thus more representation in parliament.
However, an increase in Maori representation may result in an increase in conflicts of interest so, really, all of the Treaty of Waitangi claims ought to be sorted out first.
Additionally, many Maori people in New Zealand still retain socially conservative values whereas the values of the majority have changed somewhat, at least since the 2000’s. Maori MP’s would be going up against women on the abortion debate, they’d be going up against gay men on the homosexual law reform debate, etc. The refreshing aspect would be that some of these law changes which have been made in recent years, may eventually be repealed.
In order to reduce Maori poverty, though, you do not need to have more Maori representation in parliament. What you do need however is a group of politicians who are passionate about making some changes in that area but the selfish pack we’ve got at the moment doesn’t fit that bill.
I do not think that a system of co-governance would ultimately be able to succeed amidst all the various agendas, debates, and egos.
“I believe that our indigenous citizens ought to have more political power”
More power than everyone else?
Perhaps we could have a system based on how long you can trace an ancestral line back – overseas born Kiwis get no voting rights. That makes as much sense.
Does’t it bother you at all that this is fundamentally deeply racist?
well theoretically and I do mean THEORETICALLY my lineage goes back to the saxons and as lizzy the 2 is still queen of NZ I think I should get 10 votes.
The concept of indigenous people having a fair degree of political representation in the echelons of power is not a new one. If you look at English politics, their politicians are mostly English. In France, the politicians are mostly French. The same goes for a whole host of other countries. But in New Zealand, our politicians are mostly of English ancestry, this in spite of the fact that Aotearoa was not internationally recognized as a British colony until after the mid 1800’s.
We also have other ethnic groups now such as the Chinese who make up a significant percentage of the population and who’ve lived and worked here for many decades and yet have grossly inadequate representation in parliament.
If it is a priority of both of the major political parties to have a balance in gender representation in parliament, then why not a fairer balance in racial representation?
I personally would like at least one quarter of our MP’s to have Maori heritage. This would equate to 30 MP’s. At least five MP’s who are from the Pacific Islands, and four MP’s with Chinese heritage.
Lol.
Are you deaf and blind? Have you not noticed how diverse our current parliament already is, in terms of identities (sex, ethnicity, sexuality etc)? Before the last election Tamati Coffey was crowing about how NZ was going to have the queerest parliament in world history. But what use is all that picturesque diversity when most of our parliamentarians are freaking useless? Your “diversity” doesn’t guarantee anything better optics.
“indigenous citizens ought to have more political power”
It appears your racist vision is coming to an electorate near you:
“This bill over-rides the existing electoral law which requires wards to be roughly the same size, so that a vote in one ward is worth as much as a vote elsewhere. The same law applies at a national level with a 5% tolerance.
But what this bill does is legislate for 22,000 voters on the Māori roll to elect three ward Councillors and 56,000 voters on the general roll to elect three ward Councillors. This means the votes of people on the general roll will be worth 39% of the votes of those on the Māori roll – which is of course restricted to those who have had at least one Māori ancestor.
So Labour and Greens have voted for a bill that will, in Rotorua, reduce the votes of those on the general roll to 39% of those on the Māori roll. And the media deem this barely worth reporting on.
Make no mistake, if this law passes for Rotorua, it will eventually become the standard everywhere – for all Councils, and eventually for Parliament. Anyone who denies this is deluded. The Māori Party openly advocate for this.” Report by David Farrar.
I believe a petition is being prepared to oppose this mad plan, I will post it up ASAP.
Lex Luthor, Gordon Brittas or Cruella Deville? NZ really is fucked you know….
How, in the name of God, can anyone discuss those two above with solemn contemplation?
Two greedy, power fetishists and no doubt narcissistic psychopaths demand our attention. Does that not worry anyone else?
Calling them variously Rat Face and Nob Head is beneath me and yet, there I go. And that, is what seymour and luxon inspire in me. By their mere presence, I’m dragged down to their level whether I like it or not. It’s like debating the various nuances of flies on dog shit.
The history of their political callings is an abhorrence to contemplate and has been a disaster for our beautiful AO/NZ.
The National Party, a right wing, therefore fascist party by it’s very definition, has had it’s sweaty little pink fingers, fingering away down our farmers trousers for at least one hundred years. ( Yep. Look it up. ) while seymour’s bristles can be heard scratching around our parliament’s halls doing darling roger’s bidding.
The solution? There is none. We must learn to bow down and acquiesce to those fucks. We have no alternative. All we can do is watch on in horror as they sell us out to foreign money then they’ll eventually force us into accepting our AO/NZ becoming a republic, then they’ll sell us out to the Global Riche and we’ll become D grade citizens in our own country.
While the brainless working-class Right prance about with their dicks out and the gutless Left cower in subservience, rich yanks will come here on invitation and indulge in a buying frenzy, as they’re doing as I write.
We have to remember!? Narcissistic psychopaths in politics are empowered by money. If they’ve tapped into a source of significant wealth which is always public money, they become unstoppable.
That’s why, for example, our unions were neutered and goff sold us dipshits trickle-up GST.
Jacinda now says she wants “a conversation about co-governance”, which is a bit rich when she’s used the last two years of pandemic as cover to slide through a whole raft of blatantly racist legislation.
It tells me she’s running scared.
So was it racist legislation when ACT and National set up Co governance or is it just a left wing thing Andrew?
It is Seymour running scared, scared to be a one man party gifted by the National party again.
“was it racist legislation” of course it was, governance by racial category is racist by it’s very nature.
I’m not exactly sure what you’re referring to though.
There were some co guardianships of natural features set up by National (and opposed by ACT) but this mad plan – racially selected municipal water authorities, health authorities, statutory authorities and ultimately a separate parliament and God knows what else are in a different league altogether. Anyone with a whit of sense or a knowledge of history can see what a seriously bad idea this is.
Former Act Party Leader Rodney Hide, as Minister of Local Government, explicitly recognised the need for local government co-governance in the setup of the Auckland supercity in 2009 by adding an (unelected) statutory Māori Board with voting rights to the new Auckland Council.
It is thus an irony verging on hypocrisy for the now Act Leader David Seymour to assume a rigid anti co-governance stance.
In 2013 National Party Minister Christopher Finlayson executed a Treaty Of Waitangi settlement with the Ngai Tuhoe which included co-governance of Te Urewera National Park
The Waikato River deed of settlement, again concluded by a National Government, included the same principle of co-governance. It reads: “The Authority will be made up of equal numbers of Crown and iwi appointed members, including other iwi with interests along the river”.
This is a lesson for Sour Kraut aka Richard Sivell, coward, retarded embryo.
You say National set up the framework for co-goverance and I don’t remember them consulting with the NZ public on co-governance perhaps Luxon needs to get up to speed on this issue and read the documentation instead of saying people don’t know anything about the issue he could speak to his mentor John.
Thankfully you’re nowhere near parliament David. With such a divisive rant anyone with a whit of sense can see this is a racist attack by Seymour. He has already stated the Maori Party should not be allowed a right of reply to the PM’s speech to the Nation because they only have two MPs . Didn’t worry him when he was the only ACT MP.
Seymour is seriously a joke.
“The Māori Health Authority aren’t even a seperate system, it’s a board split 50-50 that decides Māori Health priorities.”
I’m not sure this explains how the MHA will function. It is a new, statutory entity with its own separate funding. (We still don’t know how much this will amount to, and we won’t now until the Budget, but you can be sure it will be a lot. The Maori caucus will make sure of that.)
And it’s not just operating at the national “board” level. “Iwi-Māori Partnership Boards will have decision-making roles at a local level, and jointly agreeing local priorities and delivery with Health New Zealand.”
The MHA will also have an effective right of veto over decisions made by Health NZ.