Young Nats want to lock people up for 5 years for Gay conversion – great, can they tell us how many will be prosecuted?

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Young Nats break with National over conversion therapy ban vote

The Young Nats say they are “deeply disappointed” National’s caucus has decided to vote against legislation banning conversion therapy at its first reading.

MPs will debate the law which would criminalise treatment which aims to change people’s sexual orientation and gender identity for the first time this afternoon.

Can anyone in the Young Nats tell me how many gay conversions happen each year?

Shouldn’t we know that before passing a law that would see you locked up in prison for 5 years?

My understanding is that the Human Rights Commission and Ministry of Justice only have one on record since 1997!

This smells like a terrible woke overreach.

5 years in prison for chasing gay ghosts out of people is insanely punitive when compared to a range of other crimes!

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

Why is it that we on the Left are first to argue that prison is a violent counter productive organization and yet the second we have power to punish people for our issues we hold dear we get all Caligula like with revenge fantasies!

5 years for a religious teacher or acolyte who helps in a pray the gay away jamboree is martyrdom not reasonable punishment!

As far as I am concerned, anyone who believes in a magical flying invisible spell casting Wizard for their moral and ethical compass and uses that magical flying invisible spell casting Wizard to force a sexual orientation on another human being is fucking insane and incredibly damaging.

You can’t pray the gay ghosts away and anyone suggesting otherwise is a demented clown.

However, our own Ministry of Health questioned banning gay conversion therapy and that needs to be acknowledged and understood more because they claim criminalising this would be more detrimental.

Are we saying an adult who chooses to pray the Gay away is not allowed to? Who defines the serious harm to trigger a criminal act?

What if there is no malicious intent by the person doing the praying? What if they believe this garbage?

Now again, I think that person needs to seek actual counselling and real therapy to come to peace with who they are, but are we going to criminalise if people choose this hocus pocus?

Who will we be arresting here? The religious quack selling this nonsense or the person who assists?

Again.

I think Gay Conversion Therapy is crazy and harmful and stupid, but I think there are an enormous amount of things that are crazy, harmful and stupid that we don’t criminalise.

What I would hate to see is some religious nutter actively attempting to breach the law and becoming a martyr for this stupid cause.

I agree that the civil process via the HRC would be successful and a far better way to respond to this, but criminalising it with such extreme punishment is an enormous overreach.

Large swathes of NZ are already fearful woke activists will start a purge once Hate Speech laws are passed. Promising to lock up Christians for 5 years for praying homosexuality away doesn’t help dispel a punitive social engineering narrative from emerging.

With inequality soaring, entire generations locked out of the housing market,  22512 vulnerable people waiting for emergency housing and a climate crisis upon us, I can not understand why punitive penalties for Christians for a religious practice that is as damaging as it is stupid is a responsible use of the Legislative agenda!

We surely have far greater issues confronting us than criminalising a disgraced religious practice that we don’t know how many people are actually committing.

Surely?

Insanely this all becomes one giant moot point because the Minister of self annihilation, Kris Faafoi  told reporters last week this isn’t just about Christians praying the gay ghosts away, oh no, it extends to parents who stop their children from taking puberty blockers??????????

Expert concerned Government’s planned gay conversion therapy law could criminalise parents

There’s concern parents could be caught out by the Government’s planned gay conversion therapy law.

Under the Bill, they could face jail time if they stop their children from taking puberty blockers.

Criminalising Christians is one thing, criminalising parents who stop their teenagers from using puberty blockers by putting them in prison for 5years is another fucking world!

This woke overreach, just like the Hate Speech fiasco, is why Labour lost 18% support in one month.

This is why Labour needed Winston.

 

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66 COMMENTS

  1. Way I see it, is that if someone is covered in tattoos full of pagan insignia, has had a ‘gay conversion’ yet 20 years down the track, and then one day they ask Jesus into their lives,… what’s Jesus gonna say?- ” first you must have a gay reversion operation and remove those tattoo’s” …

    I mean seriously?

    Naw, – He’s gonna look at your hearts intent and your spirit and welcome you in.

    You folk are all over the place except where you should be.

    ————–

    Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

    Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

    When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

    The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

    Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

    “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

    Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

    The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

    He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

    “I have no husband,” she replied.

    Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

    “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

    “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

    Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

    The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

    Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

        • I appreciate the enthusiasm for a sensible perspective in government but Winston is an old liar who will tell you what you want to hear but stands for nothing -re listen to his leaving speech.
          This current government deserves to be voted out 10 times over for the destruction they are deliberately visiting on our society.
          An old liar need not be part of changing the guard.

          • Winston Peters is currently not in Government.
            It ain’t Nationals Law, it ain’t NZ First law, it ain’t Maori Party law, it ain’t ACT law.
            IT is the baby of Labour with the full support of its handmaiden the Green Party.
            So much to the utter chagrin of Labour supporters, this turdblossom was planted by Dear Jacinda. And labour supporters should just be proud of the priorities of the Labour government.

  2. Thank the Gay God and His/Her test tube baby Jesus that this cringe worthy, one handed nob spurt’s all we have to worry about.
    I am, however, all for dumb, ugly, violent, personality disorder conversion therapy using MDMA to turn arse holes into fun loving hug-mobs who roam about looking for unhappy people to convert to add to the joyous mobster hoards.

  3. I am not surprised there has been only one Conversion Therapy case since 1997.

    Wondering what happens if a therapist counsels a parent and shows them that the evidence for Puberty Blockers is weak and their use is experimental. That the UK Sweden and Finland have pulled back on using them. Would this therapist be seen to be practicing Conversion Therapy?

    • There may have been only ONE PUBLIC COURT CASE but conversion therapy is blatantly practice in a large chunk of fundamentalist churches in NZ you just don’t hear about it.
      Why do you think a large chunk of the under 24 year old suicide victims are LGBTIQ?
      How many of you commenting on this post belong to fundamentalist churches of which NZ is littered with homophobic ministers in stand alone fundamentalist churches.
      All the crap I see above is the same bullshit crap I saw spouted back in 1986 over the Homosexual reform bill.
      Take a look at what is happening in the USA over anti LGBTQI youth .
      Same goddamn bullshit which will only protect those churches ability to let parents total screw up their kids more.
      In my Opinion as a Gay man to damn scared to come out of the closet in a very religious family back in the 1960’s through to the 80s this law is needed and a heavy penalty is required otherwise these fundamentalist church priests and the likes will ignore it and take it underground.

  4. Surely this is a cunning plan to take people’s attention of all the other poorly performing plans like fixing mental health or child poverty . So many promises so little success

    • Trevor – “All I want is a room somewhere
      Far away from the cold night air
      With one enormous chair
      Oh wouldn’t it be loverly…”

      But firstly govt has to prioritise – get the teachers to confuse my gender – aka sexual- identity, and depress me, and chastise the King for wanting to help with my depression, and tell the parents to butt out, and everyone’s going to prison, and poverty’s due to poor budgeting and the lgbtq band drum right about everything and should be obeyed, but the truth is plain to see: “ All I want is a room somewhere, far away from the cold night air.”

    • Have been voting Labour but just can’t any more . . the old ‘working-class union-based’ Labour is dead and replaced with some kind of Grey Lynn middle-class woke mess that is more focused on not offending drag queens than it is with young couples not being able to afford their first home or child poverty.

      • +1
        I’ve only ever not party voted Labour once. Like you, just cannot stand by and watch Labour squander their latest mandate thinking all that’s required is to manage the message rather than doing useful things.
        Cruelty, lack of compassion or humility is OK it seems just so long as you can (try and) pretend it’s all OK to the masses.
        Unfortunately for the media marketers, there are various ‘demographics’ that are waking up – often because they’re in the thick of it – i.e. actually experiencing it. Exploited immigrant workers regardless of skill who were PROMISED nervana; various folk in the health and education sectors; people trying to buy their first home; the disabled and people with various health issues; generally a population that sees various double standards that even the more competent munsters seem “comfortable’ with – this list goes on (in this space, going forward).
        And that’s even before we begin to consider those offshore Kiwis (whether by virtue of citizenship or PR) trying to get home.
        Cudda Shudda Wudda.
        And increasingly, what’s left of the 4th Estate are going to challenge the bullshit – even those in the MSM who’ve had to prostitute themselves in order to pay the mortgage – and there seem to be a shitload of them about..
        Increasingly when the class left find themselves having to agree with many we’d once regarded as complete frikken arseholes, you know something’s up.
        For me, it’s too late for Labour to redeem themselves but I genuinely hope there are not too many others that feel the same way (Keep up the good work @ Bert – you’re a brick, and Labour will need the likes of you.)

        • Its looking like a ‘Roger Douglas’ type moment for Labour again. Another split where the wagons unhitch themselves and go their own separate ways!

          Roll on 2022/2023! A New! New! New! Labour Party is a coming over the Horizon!

      • Bro, even though the Trades Hall in Grey Lynn has been repurposed as a Design Store, there are still workers in Grey Lynn who know whats what. But, who can they vote for? Winston? Really.

  5. National Party seems to have an identity crisis. Will they work out what they actually stand for in time for the next general election?

  6. The bottom line is that it’s good that the Young Nats are discussing this issue. Their image has tended to one of party goers and groupies, and talking is an ok thing to be doing.

  7. The question has to be asked why is such a punitive law being brought in when there appears to be only one case of CT in NZ since 1997?

    Why are the govt wasting time legislating on a non issue?

    My tuppence worth is gender ideologists have infiltrated the Labour Party and labour have actually been fooled by their ideology, or labour, like most of NZ are too scared to stand up against this group.

    The gender ideologists want this bill, so they can create hell in the life of any parents who say no to puberty blockers and ant therapists who doesn’t use pronouns.

    Saw interviews with gender ideologists who said bill doesn’t go far enough, they shouldn’t have to prove harm.

  8. Opinion – Ben Thomas carries out National’s dastardly deed

    New Zealand has mostly been disgusted that National have not supported the ban on conversion therapy at the first reading.

    Let’s cut the crap.

    The reason National are opposing the proposed legislation to ban conversion therapy is to have a crack at Kris Faafoi.

    This is disgraceful and revolting but have no doubt – National and it’s leadership are 100% low enough to play politics here.

    The National Party plan is to string together the media beat up over the proposed “hate speech” discussion with a more recent media beat up over “banning conversion therapy”.

    Both involve undermining Kris Faafoi – who is Minister or Justice, Minister of Immigration and Minister of Broadcasting and Media.

    The purpose of undermining Kris Faafoi is to compete for prejudiced ACT votes and also to fuel further voters to swing away from Labour.

    The recent Reid Research Poll has emboldened National by the notion that – these media hits are doing the job after Labour dropped in party support – compared to the previous Reid Research poll back in May.

    Cue Ben Thomas and his article published by Stuff yesterday – which attacks Kris Faafoi – as if it was all planned, orchestrated and premeditated.

    Ben Thomas wrote :

    “Justice Minister Kris Faafoi has been benched by the Beehive from talking about the proposed hate speech laws, after his early interviews demonstrated a resounding lack of knowledge about which kinds of speech he actually intends to criminalise. This week he has spent two days dithering on what should be a fairly straightforward question on legislation to ban “conversion therapy”, and is probably close to being locked in a boot by Ardern’s fixers.”

    A resounding lack of knowledge?

    Let’s test what Ben Thomas is asserting here about Kris Faafoi.

    Hilariously Ben Thomas linked to an article by Thomas Manch ( Stuff ) on Monday 28 June at 22:35 – which wrongly stated :

    “Faafoi, when announcing the proposed reforms on Friday, said the Government wanted to criminalise “extreme speech” and not “nasty” or “stupid” comments. He said “political opinion” was among the new category of groups proposed to be protected under the law.”

    G News has a recorded transcript of what Kris Faafoi actually said on the Friday June 25th announcement and what Faafoi actually said was :

    MEDIA
    { inaudible } ..for expanding the protected grounds under the Human Rights Act, that could mean people could also be protected against hate speech based on their political beliefs. Do you have any concerns about how that could impact political debate or have unintended consequences in terms of protecting people who have white supremacist views?

    KRIS FAAFOI
    To a degree, I think we don’t want to be seen from standing at this place ( parliament ) – to be giving ourselves protections from any criticism. But there could be some instances where people hold political opinions and any hate speech directed at them could be inciting hatred. That is not necessarily the ground we are most concerned about, but again we are asking for people’s opinions through the discussion document to make sure they engage and give us their opinions too.

    This was a text book perfect answer by Kris Faafoi. It was correct and showed a comprehensive knowledge.

    Later in the same press conference ( on Friday 25 June ) Kris Faafoi was asked again by media about political opinion :

    MEDIA
    What about Winston Peters calling the National Party sex maniacs, is that hate speech towards political parties? Where is your line?

    KRIS FAAFOI
    That is why, particularly around the political opinion issue we are seeking public engagement about that and feedback. Again I want to reiterate that we are not looking to get particular protection for fair political opinion. I am not giving any judgment on the one that you just used.

    Clearly Thomas Manch was not accurate and complete when he paraphrased that “He said “political opinion” was among the new category of groups proposed to be protected under the law.” – because Kris Faafoi never said that at all.

    The six proposals in the discussion document do not explicitly include political opinion – but instead refer – to how the groups protected under the Human Right’s act in the appendix “could be” included subject to feedback from the public.

    That’s precisely aligned with Kris Faafoi’s words and he has not misunderstood a single matter.

    Subsequently, a few days later world famous PM Jacinda Ardern attempted to make a pointed clarification on the AM Show on Monday 28th June – where she referred to comments made in The Nation between Kris Faafoi and Tova O’Brien on Saturday 26th June about political opinion.

    The world famous PM told Duncan Garner that “The Nation” had implied political opinion was included but it is not included ( in the proposals ) – and she intended here to point out that cabinet had taken political opinion out of the proposals inside the discussion document. This was further clarified at the Post Cabinet press conference on Monday 28th June where the PM pointed out we don’t live in a nation where you are persecuted for your political beliefs.

    The result was that political opinion is not included in the starting point proposals – but is included in the discussion document in the appendix.

    Political opinion “could be” included if the public feedback about it was overwhelmingly in favour – but that’s unlikely – and at no stage did Kris Faafoi demonstrate a resounding lack of knowledge about which kinds of speech he actually intends to criminalise – as Ben Thomas wrongly asserted yesterday.

    Just to 100% reinforce how wrong Ben Thomas is – a barrister named Steven Price confirmed on Q&A a week ago that Kris Faafoi’s answer about Boomers and Millennials was text book correct – while uninformed media wrote that he was wrong or unprepared or not making any sense.

    So having cleared that up, the second issue is about how Kris Faafoi undertook an interview with Heather du Plessis Allan on 30 July about the proposed legislation to ban conversion therapy.

    In this interview Kris Faafoi responded to questions perfectly again whilst Heather du Plessis Allan demanded “Yes” or “No” answers to a question concerning a hypothetical 12 year old who’s parents stop from using hormone blockers because the child is too young.

    Kris Faafoi answered from the perspective of someone walking through the proposed legislation – and what the tests and steps were – that would have to be “hurdled” before such a case would ever result in a jail term…but he was shouted at by du Plessis Allan who kept saying she was not talking about that…much like how Duncan Garner talks over Labour MPs.

    Subsequently NewsCrap ZB listeners and right wing opinion writers defamed Kris Faafoi suggesting he had fluffed the communications and did not understand his own legislation.

    But Kris Faafoi was totally accurate again.

    That chorus of “wrong takes”- is the reason – why National now seek to capitalise upon this wrong perception amplified by wrong media – and to deliberately – but falsely feign their concern about how parents could be jailed.

    We all saw Simon Bridges make that speech in parliament yesterday along with Louis Upston – using these wrong reasons to try and play politics over this important matter.

    The way this false concern and the wrongful defaming of Kris Faafoi has been “deliberately created” by right wing media disgusts NZ citizens ( once they see the truth clearly ).

    National will kick around those who have been hurt and harmed by sick practices for political gain – and Ben Thomas was right there – part of the messaging team yesterday.

    I will admit that Ben Thomas started his article by suggesting National’s “culture war” was not the centre right direction he would prefer National to take – but I suspect the true purpose of his error ridden opinion was to justify National’s position about refusing to support the conversion therapy ban – but feeding the false grounds upon which that objection stands.

    Ben Thomas is 100% wrong about Kris Faafoi – who has been accurate, on top of his work and an excellent rising star.

    How dare these sloppy opinion writers play into the dirty politics National and some media are playing right in front of our noses.

    It’s a bloody disgrace.

    Shame on you Ben.

    Opinion – Ben Thomas carries out National’s dastardly deed

    G 🙂

    • Outstanding, backed by facts and evidence. In fact the best post I have seen all year. Far from many posts which simply offer nothing.
      Dirty politics and gutter journalism at it’s best.

    • Geoff, I have read through what you’ve written, and thought about it, and agree that, Yes, Kris Faafoi probably was the recipient of at least one and probably several media beat-ups. Ok, so he himself is not the problem, although he has failed to alleviate the genuine concerns of parents about aspects of the bill (which has now been passed).

      If not him, then was there not even one person in govt who could speak to our parental concerns? Why not have someone clearly articulate the precise limits of the legislation? In particular, the limits of the State’s intrusion into family life and family communication, and vice versa – some clear limits for parents as to what they can and cannot now say to their children, under whatever specific circumstances?

      • Actually the bill has not been passed .
        It has only had it’s first reading and will be open to public submissions etc before a select committee where parts of the bill will be changed due to those submissions .
        The bill has to be debated twice more before it becomes law.
        So everyone in this blog has a chance to make public submissions on it.

      • Actually the bill has not been passed .
        It has only had it’s first reading and will be open to public submissions etc before a select committee where parts of the bill will be changed due to those submissions .
        The bill has to be debated twice more before it becomes law.
        So everyone in this blog has a chance to make public submissions on it.

    • “The world famous PM……….”
      ?
      What’s that got to the price of fish in your argument?

      I’m no fan of Ben Thomas or many other sperts and commentators but your petticoat is starting to show.

    • This Comment above about Ben thomas.
      Comes from a Facebook post By Gerrard OTTO who posts as G News and shares his posts in Various blogs and in his own name.

  9. Absolutely bang on analysis, in particular

    “My understanding is that the Human Rights Commission and Ministry of Justice only have one on record since 1997!

    This smells like a terrible woke overreach.

    5 years in prison for chasing gay ghosts out of people is insanely punitive when compared to a range of other crimes!

    Many kids not even in puberty are now convinced they are gay or transgender, due to the aggressive lobbying of transgender and virtue singling of the woke, teenagers now see male/female as a personal choice not actually related to sexuality.

    Criminalising parents who get understandably upset by this or a child deciding to take puberty blockers or whatever, and then criminalising parents/teachers/psychologists/psychiatrists/academics/doctors other for not agreeing is a complete over reach of the state!

    Cancel culture gone mad!

    “Organisers say that they no longer have “the appetite or the energy” to stage next year’s London Anarchist Bookfair, following fraught scenes at the event last month. A group of feminists were confronted by other activists who accused them of distributing “transphobic” leaflets that promoted prejudice against transgender people.”

    “Heather Brunskell-Evans, an academic whose invitation to speak at King’s College in London was cancelled after she took part in a discussion on transgender issues on Radio 4. On the programme she called for caution to be exercised in relation to children who expressed confusion over their gender. Brunskell-Evans said the party told her that three members had alleged her “conduct” on the programme had “promoted prejudice against the transgender community”.”

    https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/26/transgender-anarchist-book-fair-transphobia-row

    Can’t find the link, but apparently has impacted UK version of Oranga Tamariki and doctors, where professionals are too scared not to agree to extensive transgender surgery for their charges.

    Don’t forget all the legal challenges to follow for not allowing transgender, or allowing transgender but then it all goes wrong if the person was not transgender but already changed!

    • Fuck me Geoff, that’s all you’ve got as evidence?

      A 3 year old TVNZ story that shows stupid religious people saying stupid religious things over coffee?

      That’s your fucking proof of wide spread exorcisms that are so terribly damaging someone needs to be locked up for 5 years?

      The gleam in your eye, the joy and glee with which you want to punish and hurt for your noble reasons are fucking psychotic.

      We need to be kinder to individuals and far crueler to Corporations. You wokies Geoff are locked into micro aggression policing while the real enemy glides away effortlessly.

  10. Tell me again who has a full majority government and who is pushing this Law?
    Oh yeah, that would be the LABOUR government of Jacinda Ardern in 2021.

    • No – This appears to come from Chloe and the Greens, and it isn’t the first time they’ve pushed for it – don’t pin it on Labour. One Green’s maiden speech blamed colonisation ( deep sigh) for cutting back on the diversity of the gender practices of the tangata whenua – one wrote about how extensive Maori sex experimentation was pre- colonialism ; I doubt the missionaries went around peeping thru’ keyholes ( because there weren’t any) and someone may have mis-translated the “ Wee Willy Winkie” nursery rhyme, but there’s things that happen in intimate environments which might be better left there rather than brought into a political arena with more important things to be done.

      • And yet it is Labour who took this from their wholly owned subsidiary ‘The Green Party’ aka “Of Labour aka “Handmaiden to Labour’ and pushes it through. Or have i missed something where Labour resigned and handed the keys to the land over to the Greens?
        That bullshit was and is shat out by Labour – and it is dear Jacinda and dear Kris who are unable to say anything reassuring about it.

  11. I despise any ideology that claims that people are stuck with some “identity” they invented as an adolescent or worse, as an innocent yet clueless child.

    Identity changes over a lifetime, as you gain life experience, as your body ages, as your relationships and social networks evolve, and as your own thinking evolves.

    The love of God also has the power to change one’s identity; from lost to found, dead to alive, alone to beloved.

    There is a huge scandal brewing as political ideologues are persecuting medical professionals and have captured jurisprudence, completely undemocratically and unaccountably.

    judicial capture:\
    https://twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1423364506936397834?s=21

    therapists silenced:
    https://twitter.com/taniaamarshall/status/1417604322909691904?s=21

    • Roblogic – It’s very disturbing if counsellors are being swamped by young clients struggling with their gender identity.

      How much of this has been triggered by Education Dept policies forcing the issue upon school children is an unknown, but as I understand it, the raison d’être for doing so, is that it helps children get to know their gender ID, an umbrella term basically looking at sexuality.

      The Dept of Education needs to provide evidence for this massive intrusion into childhoods which ideally should be carefree, with the freedom for children to be able to develop and blossom at their own pace.I doubt that they could, and I wouldn’t hesitate to describe it as sinister, even if it is the unfortunate outcome of having a plethora of second-rate educational institutions now called universities.

      This pre-occupation with oneself is very much a millennial indulgence, and parliamentarians being more concerned with advertising their own proclivities rather than being concerned about our battered, abused and murdered New Zealand babies and infants, is outrageous, is irresponsible and is amoral. Being ostentatiously
      LBGTQ should not be confused with splitting the atom or climbing Mt Everest.

      The Uk has some national NGO’s which lobby and act practically on behalf of their children,and we need them here now too, given that successive govts have not just let kids down, but damaged them and still do so.

      The whole bogeymen of churches forcing gay conversion practices on people is self-evidently absurd, when we are not a nation of church goers, and again there’s no evidence to show this has been happening to any great extent – the whole issue looks like yet more virtue signalling by the unvirtuous who think that we’re the fools which they are- while our beautiful children are being harmed, and that is unforgivable.

    • Denny – “ Car conversion is more dangerous. “ Nope. Not now that the police can’t chase the little turds. This frees the cops to chase the praying pastors with their gleaming motorbikes and gold jewellery as keen on straight sex as half of Parliament seems to be on the other. Those MP’s need to grow up and get real jobs.

  12. Yes Sabine that seems to have been conveniently forgotten?
    This a Jacinda Ardern led bill not a young National led bill?
    So why the criticism of the young Nationals?

    • Actually the bill has not been passed .
      It has only had it’s first reading and will be open to public submissions etc before a select committee where parts of the bill will be changed due to those submissions .
      The bill has to be debated twice more before it becomes law.
      So everyone in this blog has a chance to make public submissions on it.

  13. Let us pray,

    Oh Lord, please help me retain my virginity
    Oh Lord, please feed the starving in Africa
    Oh Lord, please let the All Blacks beat Australia
    Oh Lord, I’m gay please help me like girls.

    Gods only going to bet on the All Blacks

  14. This seems an ill informed post. Really needs to speak with survivors and try to at least get a glimpse of what it’s like for them. It’s not possible to understand what it’s like when you’re standing on the sidelines using your imagination informed by your own experience which didn’t include discrimination, marginalisation, exclusion, ridicule, harassment etc because of who you are, because of your sexual orientation or gender diversity.
    So much misinformation.
    Fact check: the bill has a high threshold. It explicitly excludes “providing acceptance, support, or understanding of an individual; or facilitating an individual’s coping skills, development, or identity exploration, or facilitating social support for the individual”. Good parenting surely includes “providing understanding, facilitating identity exploration”.
    The bill also requires actions to “cause harm or serious harm”. It requires approval of the attorney-general before a case makes it to court. It must be “performed with the intention of changing or suppressing their sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression”. 

    • That’s a typical ‘middle class’ woke retort!

      “Oh ‘you’ people have no understanding …. your opinion doesn’t matter …”

      Hold on a minute! A democracy is all of the team of 5 million who are entitled to an opinion and by ramming through poorly thought out legislation cooked up in the back room with a cross-party cartel of low-level MP’s whose political careers hinge on pandering to the 1 per cent of the population is a disgrace if you’re defending this kind of an authoritarian regime!

      Have you ever considered that the need for this legislation is already considered in the current Crimes Act! All it needs is enforcement by the current government and its agencies!

      If I was you I’d stick sorting out the major immigration bottle-neck! 10’s of thousands of people and families, oh, and doctors and medical specialists could do with this kind of urgency!

      Get Twyford off his bum and into it! Oh! Second thought, no!

    • Maria L – Many non-cisgender New Zealanders do lead productive and peaceful lives, and as high-achievers, and in fact at all sorts of levels, without undue consequences. You may not know them, or know of them. They are not exhibitionists or ‘look at me’ victims. They get on with life. The current manufactured debate is not germane to most.

    • Yeah Nah, are you talking about people dying from Gay conversion therapy or exocercism. I think there was a very sad case of the latter in Wainuiomata and they faced manslaughter charges

    • Marja, I think your Minister has let the side down badly here his Radio Interview with Heather D=A.
      Kris raised rugby coaches and parents and didn’t not rule out that parents will come under investigation for saying no to puberty blockers. This seemed to be a completely different issue to the abhorant practices you talk about and to date no one has categorically ruled out that parents won’t be investigated under this law.
      Most of us assumed the bill was to protect people from the horrific acts of conversion therapy you talk about. And most of us agree with that. However can you tell me the frenquecy and statistics around this occuring in NZ?
      Can you tell me the “techniques” the converters use? Can you tell me the ages of the people administered this therapy? Can you tell me how many outfits/therapists use it?

  15. Depends on what they do to get the gay out of them. People of died from getting the devil taken out of them. 5 years might not be long enough

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