Groan – why the latest Feminist Billboard censorship fiasco hurts Labour’s Hate Speech aspirations

1. “Today Barry apologised if Speak Up For Women felt offended by his comment.”

   Urgh. He deserves to lose the mayoralty for that non-apology alone.

2. Agreed.

   • Delia – A beautiful name, again. Your grandmother must have been a lovely lady… in non-optimum times.

     • She was darling and I carry her whole name and I am very honoured..thank you for your lovely comment

3. Agree

4. BTW the SUFW talk is on this Thursday 15 th 6.30pm at the Michael Fowler Centre .

   They are feminists who care about womens’ rights, not anti trans as they have commonly been depicted.
   They believe biological sex trumps gender ideology, thus the sign

   • So what you are saying is they ARE anti Trans rights. Those two last sentences do not go together

     • Well I will answer it this way. I think trans activists believe the gender identity trumps biological sex. Is that not the case?

     • SUFW is standing up for women’s rights, language and their access to women’s safe spaces and sports teams and scholarships and refuges and prisons and assigned jobs without men, or people identifying as women, from encroaching on these safe spaces. They are not anti trans but are pro women.

       • Absolutely.

     • Fold Art: i also support women who stand up for the rights of biological women. Rights they have fought hard to achieve over generations. The ‘real women’ arguement is simplistic. Trans women identify as women but will only ever be trans women. Biolgy is biology and no amount of hroup think can change that.

     • How can they be anti trans rights, trans have the same rights as everyone else. What they are against is criminal men self identifying as women to gain access to female spaces. It hardly earth shattering. Unless you think ten year girls should go to the loo in the company of adult males. I agree with them, I do not want to go into ablution blocks with males. My choice, just like you have choices. Women are not on this earth to validate anyone’s identity. It should be enough we carry children, give birth and that in itself should entitle us to wholly female spaces. I know the proponents of this like to believe we live in a fantasy world where women somehow miraculously turn out babies like the Virgin Mary and do not require special provisions, but the world has not changed that much. Women, that is, females still give birth.

5. So I’m now the subject of someones complaint to HR. My team had a brief discussion about adding pronouns to our email signature. I added that it wasn’t for me. One of the children (new graduate, in her first adult job ) took me up on it, then asked me if I believed that trans woman were real women. I said that I wouldn’t answer that question & it was not appropriate in my work place. She said that she took it that I didn’t believe that trans women were women. I was told that she would complain to HR and has accused me of hate speech. HR have advised me that they have received a complaint of serious misconduct…

   • HR have advised me that they have received a complaint of serious misconduct…

     The lunatics really are taking control of the asylum

   • Best of luck Terry, don’t grovel, don’t apologise. Point them (and the wet wokelet) to a dictionary as above. You can’t be a women if you’re a man (even if you’ve had your manly bits chopped off) not matter how tight you close your eyes and try really, really hard to believe it.
     What gets me is the ones trying to make out you’re the one with the psychological condition. Gaslighting?

   • Awfully sorry to hear that Terry.

     Perhaps you should seek legal advice? Might pay to get a copy of your company policy as well. Based on your comment I don’t see how that could be interpreted as ‘hate speech’ nor ‘serious misconduct’. Legally if that’s all you said I highly doubt such a complaint would be upheld in court, however how far an HR department might take it is unknown as they may perceive their own arses on the line…

     Good luck!

   • Contact the free speech union. Would never have described them as my cup of tea but they are bloody useful with this sort of thing. Good luck. Ask them (HR) if they think it’s ok for male bodied people to shower and change in front of teenage girls. Bet they don’t answer.

   • Shocking Terry.

     This is my problem with trans ideology. They expect you to fall into line and not only concur with their beliefs, but also to use their language. In my long life no one has ever insisted that I accept their ideology or belief system and use their terms. And if you don’t comply the consequences are severe as in your case Terry, or you are called a bigot, excluded from events like Pride and for some women harassed on line.

     No one ever insisted I said Kia Ora, otherwise I was racist. And what a surprise many of us started using it.

     Terry I suggest if you are in Wellington you go to the SUFW talk at the Michael Fowler centre 6 30pm, Thursday 15th. They are a group of feminists who are concerned about these issues

   • Terry seriously if you are able to, get a lawyer. That person’s actions are harassment and intimidation

     • Thanks, I’ve had a discussion with a senior manager who is about to go ballistic. A good friend is an employment lawyer, thinks it’s dead in the water. My Union is looking at it as well. I think HR want to make sure they can dismiss this without comeback.

       But it is intimidating, if I say or do anything, it is then retaliation, which is then serious misconduct.

     • Thanks, I’ve had a discussion with a senior manager who is about to go ballistic. A good friend is an employment lawyer, thinks it’s dead in the water. My Union is looking at it as well. I think HR want to make sure they can dismiss this without comeback.

       But it is intimidating, if I say or do anything, it is then retaliation, which is then serious misconduct.

     • Anker, yes, Terry must get a lawyer, and certainly not depend on a union. There are employment lawyers who take on these issues, and they charge only if successful, and then just a percentage. They’re easily found.

       About 12 years ago I was in a similar situation in a government workplace. I did in fact say the words attributed to me, which were a simple statement of fact in an ill-managed department. I got a lawyer, the issue went to ERA mediation. I won, and received an apology and small payout, resigned without another job to go to, very stressed. It was my second pg in that particular workplace, and I knew that I was being targeted and I quit.

       A contemporary problem, which could in fact impact upon Terry ,is that it seems impossible to state that one has no opinion about a specific issue, and to have this accepted, so that declining to agree with something is then promptly interpreted as opposing it.

       This has the effect of boxing one into a corner and enabling the protagonist to construct a false narrative and to bully, and it is happening not just in the workplace, but with eg one national utilities company, and it appears to be a strategy, and not incompetence.

       An outside lawyer is a godsend, and they’ve seen it all before.

       Kia kaha Terry, and good luck.

   • Terry Try not to place too much weight upon HR saying, “ serious misconduct” that’s just somebody being a jerk – there’s a good chance that management wouldn’t regard it the same way. With both my workplace issues in one department, senior management came out firmly on my side; in the first case the manager said that he couldn’t believe what had happened, and he was visibly pissed off about the whole thing. Human Resources can be a pretty mixed bunch themselves. Your problem is screwed- up girls, many of whom, even apparently cisgender ones, haven’t come to terms with their own sexuality; I declined to meet alone with one, and I tape-recorded another. You should be able to take a support person into any meetings, even if they just sit there mute, they can have a moderating influence. Good luck.

   • Maybe you could try changing the topic, ask if she believes in Santa or the Tooth fairy for instance. Any answer from her could give you a reason to claim to be offended & ask HR to investigate her. While my suggestion is flawed it followed the same logic she is using & might work.

   • Tell them your preferred pronoun is Maaate and that if anyone calls you a cis(y) male you will prosecute them for hate speech.

     Keep us updated on your case. Good luck.

     • Like he says ^_^

   • Tell them your preferred pronoun is Maaate and that if anyone calls you a cis(y) male you will prosecute them for hate speech 😉

     Good luck with your case. Please keep us posted.

   • Terry, disgusting state of affairs, and sadly the red guards are out in force in NZ.

     BTW – I love the use of pronouns after the woke names, it serves to identify their beliefs so you can avoid them similar to a certain swastika that was proudly worn 80 years ago and the red arm band for the red guards. So don’t be harassed into taking it up because the hate and abuse shown by those with pronouns after their names will eventually come out on the wrong side of history.

     “Mao launched the Cultural Revolution in August of 1966 at a Plenum of the Central Committee when he called for Red Guards to challenge Communist Party officials for their bourgeoisness and lack of revolutionary zeal. Articles in Party newspapers preceding this official launching introduced the concept of the Cultural Revolution.”

     We also had the hysteria in the 1980’s where people began to believe on mass that there were satanic child abuse cults in early childhood centres.

     Starts off like this, with allegations and bullying to others to make them believe and join, but then gathers momentum and soon people will be in prison, removed from office and publicly attacked (for not having pronouns or thinking woman are biologically woman or any such combination of the ‘new’ hate speech which seems to be normal critique or in Terry’s case, just refusing to take the millennial Kool aid). Harry Potter author. https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2020/06/10/j-k-rowling-rebukes-trans-activists-attempting-to-police-speech/

     Neokindness NZ! Where woman’s groups are told by the major to hold there events in the council waste bin. Don’t forget nobody is allowed on universities anymore if they have any non woke belief as it might be a “health and safety” violation to have non woke on campus now.

   • Probably triggered by your name, office TURF wars have started over less.

     My advice, tell them only your friends call you Terry, they can call you Terrence. And use the pronoun – They, Terry and Terrence.

   • So I’ve had a meeting with my manager, CEO & the company solicitor. I was given a letter of apology for the way I had been treated etc. I think the other person will be spoken to about making an false complaint. So all good in the end. But this sense of entitlement from certain “protected groups” seems to me to be something of a form on group narcissistic disorder.

     • @ Terry. Great news and thanks for the update. Sense prevails in this case, but mostly due to your own skills and getting the right advice, having a solicitor and be part of a union which all probably made this get the outcome it should have.

       The sad cases will be when a worker complains and harasses more vulnerable people without support networks and skills and they lose their jobs, forced to participate in ideas that they don’t believe in. etc.

       Or when the so called ‘hate speech’ comes in and then there is no work being done because everyone is complaining and trying to prosecute their colleagues about their beliefs being hate speech.

     • Terry. Thank goodness, and well done; it’s massively stressful, and having CE0 involvement should temper further similar scenarios for you or for other victims.

       You’ve also shone a light on the sinister side of speech-policing, so thanks for that too.

     • I hope more people like you, on the receiving end, also stand up and say, “NO! Enough is enough!”

6. the state of things in 2021

   Yeah, we’ve “evolved” to a real-life state of the Theatre of the Absurd

   So Now the biological description of “women” is problematic to some people

7. Serious Misconduct is as per definition in your employment agreement, it can’t just be made up by others. There’s no way they can get you out of your job for this, if they tell you otherwise, say you’re seeking legal advice, say nothing further until you do. It’s just bs, your colleague needs to familiarise themselves with law not make stuff up. Remember hr are the company’s friend not yours.

8. We had better pull the O.E.D. from NZ library shelves. Pronto.

9. Richard books are being pulled or rather Liberians are refusing to stock them. A number of women about 13 or so requested the Wellington library stock a book on the health consequences of transitioning medically to the opposite sex. The librarians refused to stock it.

   • We may have to start our own libraries. By “we” I mean anyone who has an interest in just about any particular topic. Some books seem to be vanishing, not just in AO/NZ. (So if you have any that you especially value, anyone, …Keep them secure!)

   • Anker – Librarians can be weird, but there could be budgetary constraints or even space restraints around the purchase and stocking of books. However Wellington Public Library could be requested to get a particular book on inter-loan from another library, and if they declined to do that, then they’d need to say why. I’d go straight to the Minister – if there is one – saves time – or to the downtrodden mayor.

10. Dear Martyn.
    I notice you have a problem I call catomania. It is when a cat, in my case a furry ginger monster, decides to take over the keyboard leading to VAST repetitions of particular words. I personally welcome the current wave of feminism, which can best be described as dealing with unfinished business. Progress may be slow, Comrade, and it may at times be annoying, but it is inevitable. Yes, the whole of human history must be overcome, and how we think about ourselves as the dominant beast on this planet must change, so that we have a future ahead of us and can save the world. Vastly.

    • “The whole of human history must be overcome “ ? I guess this is why the National Library is burning books then.

      I don’t mind too much about reverting to living in a cave without a hot water bottle, and about men being men and girls being girls, or showing power by banging bones on stones, but living without that musical magic of ‘ The Blue Danube’ wafting throughout my spaceship ? Never.

    • just for you, Dr Liz: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9765401/Get-meow-t-billboard-Giant-3D-cat-comes-life-brilliant-Tokyo-display.html

11. Interesting. Are people and/or lobby groups actually upset about this.. ..or not really?

    I don’t think this will gain much traction. Can an advertising site/billboard legally refuse service like that? I guess they can. The whole thing is a bit odd.

    The idea of the billboard was clearly to create a stir.

12. Any reason my posts are not publishing? Am I cancelled?

    • Could be any reason from unreadable to ideological differences. That Martyn would respond with an argument to every indiscretion fir one guy is just not happening. He does respond though but not to all thousand of them a day.

13. Hi Terry, tell them your preferred pronoun is Maaate and that if anyone calls you a cis(y) male you will prosecute them for hate speech.

    Good luck with your case. Please keep us posted.

14. Terry – just make sure you don’t approach employment lawyer (and former winner of “Wellingtonian of the Year”) Steph Dyhrberg.

    She’s full-on “TWAW” and encouraged people to “punch terfs in the face”.

    Employment Law Firm of The Year winner, if you can believe. And (sadly) on the left.

15. Um taking down that sign was an act of misogyny but perhaps it was just a precursor to the erection of a proper bilingual effort. I am as affronted by this as any ‘christian’ type person or ‘muslim’ or ‘buddhist’ (even though buddhists practice non-confrontation) because I regard my dictionary as numero uno publication in my house. While I am here can anyone explain why it is impossible to get hold of a reprint of an H.M.Ngata dictionary?

    • why it is impossible to get hold of a reprint

      Books are disappearing, mate. They’ve been cancelled, I think… Unless they’re the new dogma then they’re heresy maybe. If you can still get one 2nd hand, grab it and hide… (Not kidding.)

16. Terry – I am in the same age bracket and now in a new job (finished my university studies) as the young woman who got upset and complained to HR about your comment and I want you to know that I and many, many of my (girl) friends are not like that. I, and a few of the ones I spoken to about this, are very embarrassed and angry. As my wonderful father said – “what a crock of shit, no wonder this country is in a mess”.

    I am not a lawyer but I have spoken to a lawyer friend and she can’t believe what this person has done. The question is – what is the serious misconduct when you simply expressed your opinion and declined, as is your right, to answer this person’s question”.

    So, by not answering the dumb question from this individual, who by the way is an embarrassment to all young women and women generally, you are now accused of hate speech which by its very word requires you to say something. My Dad reckons she won’t last long in her job. I agree with him.

    Good luck Terry – not all of us are like that stupid B..ch

    • My Dad reckons she won’t last long in her job….. it would not surprise me if she finds some ministry in Wellington and promoted to harrass people there, (oh I mean diversity division of some ministry)… seriously could happen!

      Practicality seems absent these days… taking a billboard down because it has a definition of a woman wouldn’t that be the opposite of good PR and make the feminists angry?…. then the mayor telling woman to meet in a dustbin? seriously bad state of affairs… and there is about 25% of people I see now putting pronouns after their names (possibly mostly from Wellington… _)

17. Once upon a time, safe women’s spaces meant places where no one could be openly lesbian because other females might be sexually insecure. So the special one was the only openly lesbian female at Yale University Graduate School.

    Then came the TERF’S, women insecure about those not born biologically female in women’s spaces (which began with hetero sexual right wingers who support marriage between a man and a woman). And some lesbian women (who had been active in feminist causes, including women’s refuges) supported the cause. But the special one (who claimed the best idea man had was God) was now openly transgender.

    But others also openly lesbian did not come out as transgender, they remained lesbian cisgender, and yet were more openly in support for the breadth of the rainbow cause than the chosen one.

    So they tried to de-platform the chosen one for being anti transgender (those identifying as women but were born male) – to be fair the chosen one annoyed as many feminists as she could could before she became transgender and did the same to them.

    To quote a cisgender male who was also to annoy people of the cultural group he was born into “it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a transgender lesbian to please everybody” (something about having too rich or fine a taste in flesh).

    Then came the queer friendly feminist cisgender female solo parent who created a character who rebelled against her creator, with these magical words “Trans rights are human rights”.

    So many are betrayed by what they create. But it always begins with a woman giving birth.

Comments are closed.