Well hasn’t that been a horrifying week of madness?
Fresh from watching so many of my fellow comrades demand praise for pre-censoring a movie none of them had seen, (like proud bookburners), they have seized upon the Hate Speech powers with all the zeal of a cult on laundry day.
Their hunger to hand the criminalization of speech over to the State so that they can Woke nark to the cops over their latest social media lynching is gasp inducing.
Drop a drip of power onto your average Middle Class Identity Politics Spinoff/Stuff subscriber and they mutate into a thousand Tiny Hitler’s, a phalanx of little sisters whose eyes gleam with the same Dogma Cult of Mao’s Cultural Revolution.
What we are seeing is woke fascism.
The glee with which they will purge everything for their grim Identity Politics utopia should cause all Left wing people of conscience to recoil from this virus and turn on it first before we take out National and ACT!
It’s fucking time the adults of the Left stepped the fuck up and sent the children to bed without their vegan supper or cycle powered wifi!
I agree the 50year law needs changing and there should be an expansion of anti discrimination protections but criminalizing speech to satisfy the Woke’s low threshold for hate in a triggered outrage culture is a recipe for fucking disaster!
Incitement to violence is a clear threshold and we allow the Human Rights Commission to act as a filter for that bigotry by bringing people together to educate and attempt to resolve discrimination issues, but the Woke don’t want a filter, they want a weapon.
They see this Hate Speech as a means to smite the dirty filthy racists, the evil transphobes and raping misogynists.
This isn’t social policy, it’s a revenge fantasy!
Their daily to do list would look like this
-meditation
-yoga
-self actualize while taking selfie for Instagram
-correct others on their te Reo pronunciation
-cycle to drop off recycling
-call police and report a misuse of pronouns as a hate crime
-get into Twitter argument about Meghan Markle living her best life, report to Police as hate crime and try to get the person sacked
-juice cleanse
-bake bread & be present with gratitude
Throwing someone in jail for 3years using a law defined by the police is not a liberal progressive democracy no matter how noble the life goals!
I can’t tell the difference between a woke lynch mob and a sensible sentencing lynch mob any more!
For fucks sake, we are the NZ Left dammit! We don’t shy away from debate! Our forefathers bleed on foreign dirt against the Nazis in World War 2 so that no citizen should be forced to live under the tyranny of Fascism! Our forefathers fought for the belief of the individual protected before the might of the State, that no Government should abuse the gifts of Democracy by enslaving its own people!
WE SHOULD CHAMPION FREE SPEECH NOT CRIMINALIZE IT!
And yet here we are seriously debating moving hate speech into the crimes act, allowing the fucking Police to define hate and expanding jail time from 3months to 3years! We will include a fucking blasphemy law and will criminalize the misuse of pronouns and political opinion we don’t like – how the hell does that make us safer from the next white supremacy terror attack?
Why has NO ONE asked if this heavy handed over the top approach will actually generate more radicalization?
Won’t we be inadvertently creating a thousand new radical recruits by allowing Woke activists to play out all their revenge fantasies by constantly demanding Police investigate everyone they hate?
Fuck this, the Left have to push these Woke fascists out of the room, this should NEVER have been about Hate Speech and it must now be about anti discrimination and anti harassment laws!
Everyone in a liberal progressive democracy deserves the same agency. Muslims, Queer or Trans people shouldn’t feel abused and threatened or frightened of simply being in public. Graeme Edgler has written extensively upon this and makes excellent points on how we could balance freedom of speech with the right to not feel threatened.
The debate must be focused on anti-harassment, not free speech!
Adding gender identity and religion to the existing discrimination legislation is absolutely righteous, our fellow citizens and comrades deserve to live in a society that can’t discriminate against them!
The solutions here are beefing up and expanding our current systems to ensure people aren’t harassed or discriminated against, the solution is not handing the power to censor opinions to the State!
We must also be focused on better public broadcasting and more regulations on social media (including taxes to fund that journalism) to stop the algorithms from weaponising debate.
If Government wants to make NZ more ‘socially cohesive’ they should build more houses, use a wider range of taxes against corporations and fully fund mental health, education and public health – they shouldn’t implement blasphemy laws and criminalising misuse of pronouns!
Labour must urgently ignore the Woke and focus on a law change that protects minorities without green lighting a tsunami of complaints that quickly becomes an attempted purge of opinions we don’t like!
Mark my words comrades, I told you muppets that deplatforming those two crypto fascists in Auckland would only wake the dormant electoral fault line of ACT and it did! The more the woke attempt to cancel free speech, the more the right win!
The Left should be championing free speech, not trying to kill it off!
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The Blairite is THE QUEEN of this movement and is positively embracing IT!!! Unless of course it affects her re-election chances then the move-to-the-middle half truths begin and to date sheeple without penises accept this as cannon.
Rinse, Repeat in little Aotearoa.
I would ask what the basis for some of the more ridiculous statements you are making of late, but I don’t wish to give you any more complexes than you already possess. This is just childish, and utterly lacking in relevance. I suppose it’s time I accepted that nzers are just too immature and isolated to actually bother to test their sillier theories..
Don’t worry Stef – you’ll be able to put me in jail soon for hate speech or not wearing a mask in public. I’ll take my Benjamin to your Clover any day.
Hopefully you are from a generation old enough to understand the analogy…..
Your reply suggests reflexive defensiveness rather than critical thinking probing an interlocuter’s position. I can’t see anything in your words that actually present a principled rebuttal.
An interesting thing about this issue is that the more straight talking people from both left & right completely agree on their reasons for their opposition to it.
Reading both TDB & Kiwiblog reminds me that we NZdrs have more in common than youd think from reading the MSM.
I like that thought RobbieWgtn.
Kiwis are overwhelmingly easy to get on with and accepting of most cultural differences despite government meddling not because of it.
You can’t mandate basic human empathy, trying to force it on those who mostly have it will fracture the easy going society we currently have.
We can only hope there is still enough sensible people left in this country to stop this reversion to 1930s Alabama.
Lol. You mean Cambodia in the 1960s……
LOL you mean the Key years.
Lol that was a sharp comeback there Bertie. I’ll give you that one.
This is Labour 2021. They don’t change anything. They make announcements, never follow through and pin their hopes on the next Covid crisis to distract us from the fact they have delivered nothing.
Labour 2020-2023 will go to the electorate telling us, celebrating in fact, that they got tampons into schools. Yesss… That will be the sum total of their achievements because some bureaucracy threw them a bone to pretend they are the People’s voice. House prices will have doubled by then but our Labour cabinet would not have noticed. Many more people will be harmed or dead because our mental health system is such a disgrace but at least there will be 1.799999 billion left over from their 2018 mental health services funding announcement!
Aside from the astonishing irony that for a government wanting to move away from jails they increased the maximum jail term for insulting someone, x 10, I now fully expect the hate law crime to be as unworkable and as pointless an exercise as anything and everything Megan Woods pretends she does on housing.
This is Jacinda’s Labour. They just don’t do shit!
They also banned plastic bags from supermarkets.
And gas extraction so we can power our electric cars by coal and diesel. Lol.
+1 Xray – “Labour 2020-2023 will go to the electorate telling us, celebrating in fact, that they got tampons into schools. Yesss…”
If the government had done nothing about housing starting from 20 years ago we would all be in a much better, fairer place. Weird that the lefties who are incensed about Nimbyism in zoning have nothing to say about the rise of 10 million apartments springing up https://simplesmentesantos.com/business/five-level-120m-development-plan-for-ponsonby-rd-site-with-apartments-retail-and-office/, the next wave of leaky death trap housing in equal measures, grandiose housing white elephants on flood zones with first time generationally rich developers [having a go] who rely on the Waikato council ratepayers (the poor) putting in 100 million for waste water upgrades for their folly and set to get some possibly affordable houses in the next 7 years but not guaranteed that nothing will go wrong and the workers have to ‘have the right attitude’ to rent/buy one.
Meanwhile completely approved zoned land for housing still has no housing on it unless the developers get massive handouts for so called affordable housing. Now NZ developers are trained to just wait for the handout from councils and government and it just takes a cheap media campaign who will print anything verbatim to get the poor aka ratepayers and taxpayer to chip in a few hundred million for infrastructure! Still the government can’t work out what has gone wrong with housing. Poor Bernard Hickey is still scratching his head!
It would be better at the terrible job they are doing that the government do NOTHING for housing, so stop the corporate bonuses for developers who are joining the gold rush and will create the next Crater farms, red zone liquefaction and housing and banking crashes in the next few years in NZ!
Housing has a demand problem in NZ.
It really is as easy as stopping hundreds of thousands of new people coming into NZ buying up property and getting NZ residency, and make them wait 10 years and prove they want to stay and are good corporate citizens instead. Maybe Dotcoms true crime, was to rent a mansion, not buy one! With NZ’s quick residency many foreign housing owners leave NZ but still hold property in NZ when they leave. Or they leave on a different passport and the bovine NZ government are none the wiser!
Government and media seem sure the solution to skills shortages is more people, but fail to calculate that we have already got 1 million new Kiwis into NZ and the skills shortages in NZ are much worse than before they started! Sounds like the fake jobs and fake skills, entrenpreurs for property buying up land/assets and half the permits for piggy back people with zero skills hasn’t worked out well for the country! Soon it will be a hate crime to point it out.
We keep hearing about government opening the borders for all the ‘skills shortages’ but it looks like it’s more for the ski season or Cannes…https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/spy-mile-high-european-proposal-as-rich-listers-flee-nz-winter/Y2DVEIZBPZTA5Y7AH5PV3GQD7I/ for those that see the Wiggles, or the dysfunctional to come here https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/439805/new-zealand-taxpayers-footed-bill-for-extra-miq-after-australian-woman-refused-covid-19-test. Once getting Covid they will be back and the media will be eating up their sob stories.
Meanwhile can the government spare a moment to crack down on fraud and deception and crimes that have become the norm in NZ. Such as sucking all the wealth out of the elderly in NZ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/sad-life-and-lonely-death-of-pensioner-who-found-she-didnt-own-her-home/2XFOQISXK3QQ72OX4Z56B5KD7I/ or constant underpaying of employment or selling fake jobs which is not a criminal act https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/124459253/convicted-fraudster-spared-from-deportation-due-to-family-hardships.
Actions that should be criminalised is not in NZ, and people who are trying to stop criminal behaviours seem to be silenced with the new woke laws!
“Housing has a demand problem in NZ.” This. #deportgarylin
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-woman-annie-chen-serving-home-detention-in-10m-remuera-mansion-for-fraud/DNSZAZZTYVSVYIBZUIPZOUJEDY/
You forgot that they are getting rid of fruit labels (over 10 years maybe?)
This government has failed so spectacularly in addressing such tragic and debilitating and socially damaging issues as child poverty and homelessness, that it would be foolish to let them pass legislation which would enable citizens to cause difficulty for each other at ‘best’ because of hurt feelings, and at worst, through malice, or as a means of coercive control for various agendas.
Blithely tossing over it’s execution to the police, is the thin end of the wedge in utilising police, i.e state force,
to act in the interests of government, rather than doing their proper job of protecting the people. The time for knee-jerk reactions to the Mosque murders has passed.
It is certainly timely for them to reflect on their priorities .
D J S
Why are we saving Jacinda? She’s pushing for this or it wouldn’t be happening.
Save our freedom.
The hate speech laws have absolutely nothing to do with the actions of the foreign terrorist here, or his radicalizing overseas.
That they were put forward as necessary by the royal commission shows it was never really about finding what government agencies did wrong, it’s about hiding it and blaming and punishing citizens that did nothing wrong.
It’s been used to push a cynical controlling agenda on the population.
Those kind words by the PM after chch hid a very dark truth of what she is going to take from all New Zealanders-our freedom of expression.
I like your choice of photo, – the queen of dragons who was the worlds great hope, who said all the right things but really was a monster who attacked and burned her own people.
On the money there Keepcalmcarryon. You have described exactly what is going on here and why Ardern needs to go. She’s dangerously thick, and as the daughter of a copper will keep handing all the power she can to the Police. Anyone who cannot see her utter ineptitude is a fool .A robot could make be wheeled out each time a government needs to announce anything. We need politicians capable of formulating and writing policy themselves and with the ability to think deeper than their belly button. Jacinda can’t do this. She has to go.
Shona -If you’re saying that the attack on free speech is very much Arden’s party, then I agree, and I certainly don’t see hugging and smiling as indicators of any sort of intelligence.
But dumping it all in the lap of the police because her father is or was a copper, doesn’t necessarily follow.
For all anybody knows, this could be Ardern’s way of sticking it to her dad – as well as doing a Pontius Pilate and washing her hands of the whole business and making the police the fall guys for the inevitable damage and destruction which ill-thought out legislation will cause.
The only police officer I’ve talked to about it, is fairly apolitical, is not happy about
curbing freedom of speech, and seems to know more about cancel culture than I do.
It’s a win-win situation for the PM – recommended by some commission, with the police forced to execute it, and Jacinda keeps her waving hands squeaky clean.
How easy it will be to brand objectors racist, and wreck the lives of reasonable persons in doing so – and how very dangerous.
“It’s a win-win situation for the PM – recommended by some commission, ”
Wrong! The Royal Commission only came out in December. What little of that whitewash( more controlling the narrative by Ardern becasue the plebs must not know who was really responsible for the failure to catch Tarrant in time, NZ police being one of those of agencies)was made public did not recommend that transgender people be especially protected by criminalising derision of such members of our society. This is Ardern’s baby she has campaigned on criminalizing hate speech in the past. And as the daughter of a copper she has a limited view on how society can be cohesive. She is ashallow thinker and has had a free ride to a position of power that is well beyond her abilities.And we all know cops are human and are even capable of forming heir own opinions, doesn’t stop them from applying the law or HAVING to do so . Your comment about your friend the cop is that of someone who has NEVER been on the receiving of the NZ police’s viscous incompetence. Arse covering is the modus operandi of the NZ police who do not make mistakes….ever!
Shona – Wrong. My cop acquaintance in his younger days was out on the town one night and caught urinating in an alleyway by the police. The police officers told him to take his jacket off and use it to clean up the pee on the ground. He refused. And there’s more, involving a bad experience of mine I won’t elaborate on.
I was unaware that Ardern has previously campaigned about criminalising hate speech – whatever that is – and think it extraordinary that having done so, she is now saying leave to it up to the police. She may be relating to the police officers of her father’s generation, but that’s not good enough either. And I do think that leaving it to the police to decide what is hate speech, is not just hopeless, but also sidesteps having to be held accountable for damaging outcomes.
Certainly any talk of a cohesive society is unrealistic in the context of a government which has presided over the gulf between the haves and the have-nots increasing, and the dire situation of the homeless and downtrodden, lacking the means to improve their own lives through no fault of their own. I used to think that having worked her teenage years in a fish and chipper, and having a mum in a humdrum job, she’d have some sort of acquaintance with the reality of life at the bottom, but it looks like I might have got that wrong, and I think that “ social cohesion” is just another pr term to try and look kind and caring. Everything’s buzz words and feelings now.
The new ‘hate’ speech laws seem to make any of the politicians hate crime speakers …..
Green MP Golriz Ghahraman accused of anti-Semitism over Instagram post
‘How Israel Became a World Leader in Vaccinating Against COVID-19’, but the group “fixed it for them” by crossing out ‘Vaccinating Against COVID-19’ and replacing it with ‘MEDICAL APARTHEID’ in bright red letters.
Under the new laws this protest sign, will be a crime under the hate speech rules! I am sure that Golriz Ghahraman has had anti Semitic activities before.
Kelvin Davis made the comments that Melissa Lee should ‘go back to where she came from if she didn’t like NZ lazy workers” – again now will be able to be investigated and criminalised for that racist outburst.
If your neighbours are gang members and in emergency housing, and you complain then apparently it all be racist and classist and now a crime under the new laws…. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/124585071/national-mp-nicola-willis-confronts-green-mp-marama-davidson-over-racist-accusation so I guess those who are not MP’s won’t have the right to speak out anymore…
even when it seems true…
‘I told you someone would get killed’ – Christchurch man angry after complaints about social housing problems ‘fell on deaf ears’
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/i-told-you-someone-would-get-killed-christchurch-man-angry-after-complaints-about-social-housing-problems-fell-on-deaf-ears/OQEZ4OSINXDVNVJM43PEV7CK4U/
No complaining allowed about housing, it’s now a hate crime!
Complaining about drug gangs, will be a crime!
Winston Peters – now a hate speaker…
“NZ First leader Winston Peters has launched an attack on immigration policy and questioned whether Auckland is becoming “the supercity of sin”, linking crime and other problems to immigration from China.
In the speech to a North Shore Grey Power meeting he denied his party was anti-immigrant, saying it was not against bringing in people with skills lacking in New Zealand.
And he pointed to comments by the new premier of China that the biggest challenge facing China was the level of corruption.
“It stands to reason that corruption can be exported and imported,” Peters said.
He said the Government was talking of a million more people in Auckland soon “and there is no prize for guessing where most will come from”.
He cited a free trade deal that works when it suits China, massive investment in local farms, forests and factories, fast-track schemes for students and rich Chinese tourists, and huge investment in the housing market.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8714017/Peters-Immigrants-brothels-and-sin-city
Phil Tyford is racist too.
Chinese NZers 9% Akl popn. People of Chinese descent bought 39.5% of houses sold by major Akl real estate firm. This is foreign money. 2/2
https://twitter.com/PhilTwyford/status/619616896460062720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E619616896460062720%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tvnz.co.nz%2Fone-news%2Fnew-zealand%2Ftwyford-s-racist-cynical-chinese-property-buyer-statistics-de-bunked-q00964
Truth or even an opinion will now becomes illegal in NZ.
SaveNZ – I, personally, already regard Golriz and Marama as two racist persons in the New Zealand Parliament, and possibly feeding off each other, and I think it crucial that we, the people, be afforded the freedom to know what they think and say, and to not have their voices suppressed.
I want Winston Peters to able to say that he thinks the Nats are sex maniacs, not just to give me a quiet chuckle, but also to draw attention to the puerile nature of some of their MP’s and Parliamentary candidates who have the audacity to think themselves capable of representing everyday New Zealanders. If Peter’s hyperbole also gets Kiwis thinking about Chinese ownership of New Zealand, that’s ok too. It could even be time to ponder if any rich Nat MP has links with American spooks, and why not ?
I am starting to think that the epithet ‘colonial’ is now also being deliberately utilised as hate speech by a fairly limited number of activists operating on the ‘divide and rule ‘ principle, but given that in this country most of us have families of fairly broad ethnic diversity, I doubt they’ll get very far with that particular game, and only rue that impressionable young persons who need and deserve community support, may become unnecessarily hurt or confused or victimised – but it is important that extreme views be exposed to sunlight, and that dialogue is enabled.
“Freedom of speech is the concept of the inherent human right to voice one’s opinion publicly without fear of censorship or punishment. “Speech” is not limited to public speaking and is generally taken to include other forms of expression. The right is preserved in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and is granted formal recognition by the laws of most nations. Nonetheless the degree to which the right is upheld in practice varies greatly from one nation to another. In many nations, particularly those with authoritarian forms of government, overt government censorship is enforced. Censorship has also been claimed to occur in other forms (see propaganda model) and there are different approaches to issues such as hate speech, obscenity, and defamation laws.”
The new laws means anyone can accuse others of hate speech…. creating a thought police culture and suppression of views and ideas, because most people will be deemed as criminals within the new non freedom of speech, NZ!
Even those who think it’s a good idea, fail to understand how they can be prosecuted under it, for example those who continually abuse the police in NZ on-line (aka police brutality) could be now criminalised.
It seems clear than NZ needs the opposite aka greater freedom of speech, which is not actually legislated in under our laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country Thus a dead man can sue Andrew Little for defamation (and they won on one count in the first case and Andrew Little was found guilty and then changed the law to allow a dead man to sue him again).
COL seems not content to pretend to build affordable houses, keep NZ assets in NZ hands, use the 10% petrol tax for public transport like rail, take guns away from licensed people and create a black market of unlicensed guns, but now make the majority of people in NZ guilty of hate crimes just for any views they have about politics, groups like police, unemployed, rich, zionism, white supremecist, men, woman etc
‘Delete yourself, bro’ seems like hate speech against men, while ‘ok boomer’ is a hate slur against the elderly…. anti monarchy, etc can all fall under these new suppression laws.
More dumb committees taking up time and energy and creating a police state in NZ, while Rome burns.
I agree Golriz and Marama often have elements of racist speech, but I don’t think it’s a crime…. yet…
Agree absolutely.
Free speech is fundamental to a fair society.
Well it’s good to see SOMEBODY on the left is opposing this obnoxious bill, but …
“The solutions here are beefing up and expanding our current systems to ensure people aren’t harassed or discriminated against …”
Wasn’t this legislation supposed to be a response to the mass murder of March 15th? How will this “beefing up” reduce the risk of a repetition of said horrors? March 15th happened because it was ridiculously easy for Tarrant to buy a cache of semi-automatics in NZ, no questions asked.
We have existing legislation that criminalizes threatening speech, and speech that incites people to harm others or themselves.
And I have to wonder about this headline:
“How do we save Jacinda from Woke Free Speech Fascism?”
What makes you imagine she’s worth saving? She’s not the messiah who’s momentarily lost the plot after dropping a dodgy batch of MDMA. This hate speech bill is no aberration from her LINO government – it’s part of a pattern that includes He Puapua, the Sexual Violence bill, and the futile measures against fossil fuel use that threaten to make life harder for many Kiwis without making a blind bit of difference to global warming.
LINO need an utter annihilation in the next election – maybe then they will rediscover a thing called “social democracy”.
I agree 100%. It seems every generation has to learn anew that making laws against bigotry just creates hypocrites who are still bigoted. Perhaps the thrust of new law making should be towards NZ not being drawn into the pointless wars, such as Afghanistan, that create the refugees that the hate speech law attempts to protect and also engenders the racist propaganda that feeds the bigots in our society.
How about we stop selling our country to rich people from overseas who don’t actually live or pay taxes here for the most part. Oh, no, that opinion will soon be a hate crime!
We send her to the UN to join Aunty Helen and good riddance.
I’d like to see you win an election lovey.
Funny you say that.
she lost twice Auckland Central
was gifted Mt. Albert
selected by Winston Peters
and Covid won.
She sure is a winner. 🙂
hehe! An election would the time to fuck her off or at the least, reduce the number of seats they labour have.
Get back to an MMP government because they’ve blown their chance to stick to their promises since 2017 that they were going to fix, like Housing, Homelessness, Poverty, Health & Education.
They’ve gone off the deep end now, and created a list of the “unachievable” things to do.
Bloody I blame the education system because it is woke!
An education system that, trying to make sense of what and how you have written your comment, you have mostly missed out on. Or maybe you didn’t pay attention when you should have.
VV – You may have missed out here yourself, confusing the subject and object in your first sentence and creating a grammatical absurdity.
Denny Paoa “ I blame the education system “, and having worked in it at every level, both here and abroad, I agree with you that this has to bear a large part of the blame for producing a dumbed-down population of bullies. Quite how this has come about I don’t know, but it happened.
We see the proof in Parliament on a daily basis, and for some reason the Green girls often appear oblivious of the history which shaped us, and rely on selective snap shots to play victim cards to suit themselves, and whatever their agendas may happen to be; I say that as an ex-Green supporter, who dumped them.
We see the proof in the occupants of prisons being illiterate despite
growing up in a country with so-called free compulsory education. That’s a massive systemic failure, and even worse, unless they’re lucky, it sets kids up for a life of failure and difficulty, when it didn’t have to be this way, and was never meant to be this way, and was legislated not to be.
We see the proof in doctrinaire govt dept managers incapable of an original thought, and being threatened by the original thinkers rather than embracing them. Thou shalt not be different – but that may be the whole Kiwi mantra.
We see the proof in the trite superficiality of the msm media, many of whom are too limited to even know that they are, and can be sanctimonious jerks, hopefully influencing only each other.
We see the proof in the sad spectacle of the people denied the simple pleasure of knowing the joys of reading, which can not only open up brave new worlds, but offer an escape from what can be the harsh realities of everyday life.
We had PM Key, who spent his tenure unable to pronounce the name of his adopted country correctly, and we now have a PM unable to correctly say “ poverty” in the context of “child povidy”, and I don’t think that it takes a shrink to explain this sort of avoidance.
Fantastic Post @ MB.
However; this monkey needs to grind his organ. And not in that good way. ( Ba Ha ! That’s funny if I do say so myself. )
You write:
“…that no Government should abuse the gifts of Democracy by enslaving its own people!…”
Think of ‘Democracy’ as being like a house? Everyone has a house, right? ( Well, no actually. Gee thanks capitalism? Thanks a bunch. ) But it’s what goes on in a house that defines society. One house can have a family who’s inclusive, broad minded, humorous and prioritising the needs of the most vulnerable first.
Another house, on the same street, in the same democratic society, there are narrow minded, surly, underhanded, greedy fuckers who get pleasure out of being mean and nasty while making money from the mayhem the cause and that brown man does a lovely job of cleaning the windows.
Democracy gave us both houses.
The democracy we have currently is a capitalist democracy. It’s a deeply flawed system of governance, if one could call it that, because the evidence available to this writer is that it’s clearly disastrous to each other and our only biosphere. The capitalist mantra is growth which is the logic of cancer.
The ludicrous so called ‘woke’ thing @ MB writes so eloquently about above is a cynical attempt by capitalism
to throw chaff from the burning fascist, right wing imbedded within our democracy
Wikipedia:
Chaff as a countermeasure.
“Modern armed forces use chaff (in naval applications, for instance, using short-range SRBOC rockets) to distract radar-guided missiles from their targets. Most military aircraft and warships have chaff dispensing systems for self-defence. ”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaff_(countermeasure)
I’ve written here before. We have deep poverty and hardship on a rich few islands larger than the UK but with only 5 million people who’s primary industry is agrarian so why isn’t our governance running while screaming?
There’s a simple answer to my own question. The right wing house has us completely head-fucked.
They’re coming here. They pop up, usually in confederate pairs so as they can counter-argument then agreeing to disagree but ultimately to agree. gaby, imright, john, frank the tank, thekraut and others come here to spread dis-ease amongst their greatest enemy. Us. They’ll likely be paid influencers to spread discord.
Their latest trend is to not go at us directly by openly preferring national over labour but discretely and cynically agreeing with some of our despairing comments about labour as being not as we’d hopped for. At this point I’d like to remind people that it is we who are the politic. If you don’t like labour then you’re not making labour pay attention. If we tried that with national they’d simply take 25 % off benefits and ratchet up the cost of living. As they’ve done in the past. When the belly’s empty one doesn’t feel much like starting a revolution.
Well Boys? You’re outed. Fuck off. But not so far that you can’t appear in courts of inquiry while facing charges of treason.
As a Sunday treat? Watch this. Make sure you watch the 30 minute youtube documentary of this amazing and extraordinary artist.
Boingboing.net/
‘Laurie Lipton reveals our inner darkness’
“Fuck em!”
https://boingboing.net/2021/07/03/disturbing-drawings-how-laurie-lipton-reveals-our-inner-darkness.html
Dear CB
Always love your musings. But you have messed up your metaphors, so you need to go back to the drawing board. You say think of Democracy like a house – all good. Next you tell us what goes on in a house that defines society. All good. Then you say there is another house down the street. Hang on??? So is that another democracy? You need to stick with the original house, as NZ is one house. A house with problems, but one house.
Don’t attempt to save Jacinda! She’s the country’ worst enemy IMO!
I didn’t vote for her; NEVER WILL. I’ve written before – she’s a talker, NOT A DOER!
When working as a NZRN, I was constantly striving to improve my patients’ care. I was an innovator & was so in the face of very considerable resistance. Nurses are no different to any other group of workers: always striving re how make their job easier – not how to serve their patients better!
Bless you, Isabel. It warms the cockles of my heart ( oops – mixed metaphor) seeing you say how you strove to improve your patients’ care, and I mean that. Now of course, the patient has been morphed from client to customer, and is an economic unit largely controlled by bean counters, but in every profession they who really care can make a world of difference in immeasurable ways, and they light up our lives. Kia kaha.
Jacinda can’t be saved from whatever it is people want to pin on her.
The world likewise can’t be saved from madness.
There are those who said that Ardern called Judith Collins “Karen.” They know it for sure. They heard the PM call JC “Karen.”
Those same people who heard his grand address, did not hear the former President of the United States call for an attack of the Capitol. They heard all his words and know he didn’t promote ill-deeds.
So, is there some physiological or sensory problem, their hearing is not working properly? Or are they just fucked in the head?
Hope this helps your understanding: https://youtu.be/IQPsKvG6WMI
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018802186/media-turn-up-heat-on-hate-speech
These laws will give The State power to arrest anybody, any time!
newsroom.co.nz is already being sued for reporting the news, these new laws will see reporters arrested.. even if found innocent, they’ll be chewed up and spat out – worse-for-ware.
These laws will turn on the woke so fast their heads will spin, but it will be too late. Fascism with a smile I’d suggest.
Notice how the MSM that seem to be going broke and thus requiring hundreds of millions of dollars from government (media works etc) are the ones who are reporting woke and neoliberal propaganda while the tiny new news groups get sued for printing what is really going on! Shame on most media in this country. Anyway with the new hate speech laws, Newsroom will not be able to report about the Oranga Tamariki because it will be stigmatising a group and thus a hate crime! The irony seem lost. It’s like now whenever someone speaks out as a victim of poor government policy, the agency always says they can’t comment or do anything because of ‘privacy’…. soon it will also be turned into a crime to point anything out.
You can’t legislate to control people’s morals; who was it who said “the only true laws are those writen in the hearts of men.”
Until all sections of society become accepting of different cultures and stop being scared of loosing privileges or perceived status ‘hate’ speech will exist. Writing ever more prescriptive laws will not prevent it. The danger is that overly prescritive laws will suppress open, full, frank, and respectful discussions, thus endangering the very basis of our democracy.
Martyn, Some of us long term Labour voters have written to people, the PM included, all year about the dangers of what she is doing. Dare I say in January, I said, get housing and social welfare under your belt and the people will give you a mandate to enact more ambitious reforms.
But she/ they are not listening. They are high on their own success and their utter belief that their PR strategy and media control will shield them from any backlash. Jacinda has an agenda and I no longer believe it is about anything other than feathering her own nest and achieving goals for her career. As those on the right say, Cindi4UN.
Martyn
Noble as your quest may be, you have to ask yourself a few question (before you give up):
1. Does she even want to be saved or are you assuming so?
2. Is she not the chief protagonist here, thus she is beyond saving?
3. Anything that looks good at the UN, is that not what Jacinda is really all about?
4. Does Jacinda really care as deeply as everyone makes out, or she she just a highly driven cynical politician and we are just pawns in her chess game?
5. And finally, free speech means free speech. Why should there be special protection for anyone from free speech? Like, you can say what you like to ‘white people’, but not to ‘black people’? Is that free speech?
Will “OK wokie” now enter the lexicon?
Scanning all the comments here, I get the feeling we are all totally happy and elated with our ever so honest and transparent PM. Isn’t that great!
Jacinda Aderns Government has done little or indeed nothing to help the poor of this country but rather made the rich richer.
Value increase in equities and property the playground of the rich at unprecedented levels.
Jacinda, the messiah to the rich and lucifer to the poor. Tyrants often wear fake smiles. This ones simply too cruel. Happy homeless day coming next.
Did anyone see Jacinda defending the government on the way it has handles medical cannabis. I went to a q&a re the cannabis referendum and was assured by Duncan Webb Labour candidate the medical cannabis issue was sorted. I do not agree !
Jacinda is pathetic , she is not interested in the people’s interests right back yo when she campaigned before her first term she said she wouldn’t sign the tppa or watever it’s called , upon getting into parliament she promptly signed it and also signed the un.s declaration of no borders policy meaning “we didn’t have to adhere to it but we signed it anyways “ I have seen and watched as all the screws are being tightened , I found it interesting that the govt and the councils were really quick to declare climate emergencies which kinda leads me to believe the agenda that she has is not hers but people behind the scenes pulling the strings everything she has promised she has broken and the double down with extra taxes or rules or laws that are to be changed or have been changed quietly , immigration is clearly the problem when u have a massive increase in people coming to live dare I say it from China every year but no one thinks to spend on infrastructure accordingly, to me a 40 ur old educated and I like to think yo yo date across the spectrum wats been happening is just dumb and all comes down to greed , politicians have no accountability they can sign things into law then tap their mates for govt or council contracts and not bother judging for the best priced tender and relieve themselves of public duty, job done . It’s a disgrace to see what this country has turned into and become just in my lifetime and those in power should be ashamed of themselves , nz‘s top tier or elite politicians included are and have always been about the systematic rape and pillage of nz’s wealth , natural minerals and anything tangible that can be sold I.e our frking water which my mum gets charged by the litre and water meter Reader comes to her house every month to take account , yet billions of litres gooffshore and the govt helps fund it or city of Wellington which has so many broken pipes under the ground that they can’t take meter readings from individual households how is it fair ? Rates increase every year but services are getting scaled back it’s all a frkn joke and the govt needs a fresh start a reset so yo speak and are more democratic hands on approach with more referendums so that we the people who the hove works for or us supposed actually does what was intended , to action the will of the people , the system is corrupt at the very core … sorry about the rant but everything is and has become untenable . No one in power is speaking sense and they just don’t seem to give a frk about what we the people want , the flip side of that is we the people don’t ever protest in no Europeans voice their concerns and March we should be doing this , I’m embarrassed for future generations , when I was growing up there were very little homeless and the few there were at the time u would recognise walking down queen st , 40,000 homeless shame on national and labour shame on u
Pierre – No need to apologise for “the rant”, ever. Please keep speaking because you are making more sense than those with speech writers and public relations persons to put words into their mouths for them.
It’s heartening, too, to see somebody else thinking about future generations because it won’t be gutless wonder government doing that – the path ahead is looking like a clock running backwards. Kia kaha
Anyone else just so sick of this hate speech garbage?. Because honestly, a party with that much of a mandate is really proving how inept it is by not building enough homes, not actually spending money on mental health, or doing jack squat to improve healthcare/education in this country.
You can check out the *Liberty Party if you want. They hold free speech vital to their platform. Martyn is correct in his assessments and it’s about time we had a party in NZ that upheld some of those ideas for the populace. Thanks for reading this whoever you are.
* not currently registered
https://twitter.com/LibertyNZParty
https://www.facebook.com/LibertyPartyNZ
“How do we save Jacinda from Woke Free Speech Fascism?”
You can’t, because she’s a leading source of it.
A better question is to ask how we can save NZ from this woke fascism
“You can’t, because she’s a leading source of it.”
What a complete an utter load of crap!
Where do you tossers get this shit from?
There is free speech and hate speech, the whole discussion is separating these two completely.
How this has ever gotten to “woke speech” is only driven by moronic comments like this.
Spot on Martyn…..
First they came for a Charlie Chaplin musical. And we all laughed at how silly they were, then they came for some poor women in a govt job who refused to use pronouns and we shivered in fear and reminded ourselves to shut the fuck and comply
NZ is drifting towards fascism. Police investigating speech…..it a recipe for forcing people underground, filling them with deep resentment
“The glee with which they will purge everything for their grim Identity Politics utopia should cause all Left wing people of conscience to recoil from this virus and turn on it first before we take out National and ACT!
It’s fucking time the adults of the Left stepped the fuck up and sent the children to bed without their vegan supper or cycle powered wifi!”
Bang-on … music to my ears.
But are there any adults left ? … apart from our little collection of scattered rebels, still loyal to core 20C Left principles.
Many of the Woke’s fellow-travellers on the Left are old enough to know better … but (quite astonishingly) they’ve cheerfully capitulated to the censorious authoritarianism, the deeply anti-democratic & vindictive instincts, the crude sacralization & demonization of entire demographics & all the self-righteous moral posturing & performative narcissism of the Core Woke cadre (many of latter, as recent research in Psychology has indicated, suffer from Dark Triad personality disorders … people who should be kept the flying fuck away from Power).
As with all such holier-than-thou virtue-signalers, hypocrisy, self-interest, rank cowardice & covert sadism bubble away just below that thin veneer of Puritanism.
Worth Watching! Stop the intolerance of intolerance!
Defend Free Speech
The forerunner of the Defend Free Speech campaign was called “Reform Section 5”. This speech by Rowan Atkinson at the launch event in Parliament in 2012 should be heard by every politician, journalist and campaigner before they start calling for laws to silence those they regard as ‘extremists’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiqDZlAZygU
Welll said Swordfish.
Would like to know why every time I post nothing shows up , very strange
“Every time I post, nothing shows up “ … Happens to all of us sometimes – but out there in the great ether our messages could be winging their way through some interesting celestial territory – or somebody ain’t the best keyboarder- or the spooks are doing a bit of interception – or stuff just happens – or we were a bit rude – or it’s God’s way of saying take a break and dig your own or somebody else’s cabbage patch… gathering puha and dandelion leaves from neighbours’ berms is also quite satisfying, free, and nutritious.
To suppress free speech, in an effort to prevent hate speech, then all forms of media communication would be shut down, entertainment (as recently demonstrated in NZ re the Chaplin musical), literature etc. This is something the Third Reich practised so well for its own dark agenda!
At some stage in our lives we all indulge privately in some form of ‘hate’ speech, but it’s when the intention is planned for a hate filled physical act against others, which presents the danger to society. This aspect of hate is a job for the authorities to monitor closely, before it’s acted out against innocent parties.
While I realise Woke as we know it, originated in the US early last century and is growing at an alarming rate around the world at present, I’d like to know where are these faceless dictatorial absolutists hiding out? Where is their base of direction? More to the point, what is the ominous agenda?
Totally agree Mary-a
This is typical of all tyrannical movements in history.
Third Reich an excellent example. There are countless others.The objective to control the masses.We know what’s best for you.We will protect you from yourselves.
But surely New Zealanders are not that naive and won’t be led down this path.
Hate speech legislation is a contradiction in terms.
Don’t ever, for fuck’s sake, use the word fascism about the people’s cause. It’s here and disclosed again, after 75 years. And their orcs parrot us as ‘communists’. My siblings for instance. Via vile born-againism.
Im not fully aware of the process that is followed when introducing new legislation so excuse my ignorance but , from my understanding doesn’t the legislation have to be proposed and then put forward outlining in depth the chill or amendments and then time for public consultation changes to be debated etc etc at which stage are we at with the hate speech law amendments because it seems like everyone is talking about as if it’s already passed it’s set in stone hence it going to the media , but how in our supposed democracy does a Bill get so far with out the politicians championing it not even understand or knowing what the very basis of the changes will fundamentally mean to “we the nz citizen and taxpayer “ . I think there should be a referendum every time that there is significant changes to be made to anything such as gun laws , hate speech , exploratory drilling , importing massive amounts of coal to burn to make electricity all the while promoting e.vs and taxing urea when it’s clearly not going to be sustainable if everybody has an electric car as we simply don’t produce enough to begin with it doesn’t make any frkn sense ?! I have been doing some research on previous civilisations and the last signs or flags right before they fail or fall to ruin perhaps maybe in our case total chaos , it’s interesting in the majority studied by academics one of the final red flags especially in romes case is the blurring of sexualities and perception of shifting genders , pronouns included in nearly all civilisations that predate our current . I found that really intriguing , that there are warning signs that don’t seem to change despite different times , races cultures , there is a point in democracy where it starts to go backwards or have a negative affect despite all efforts and actions to over legislate and preempt any discordance with the rule of law governing , I hope that made sense , it’s late , I think social media at its core is also responsible for the unravelling of our social moral fibre , it works on a reward system that trains young people to seek gratitude and likes from anyone and everyone who wnts to witness and fawn over them and their fabulous life , it’s this same need that drives today’s world where people don’t do favours for nothing or out of the goodness of their heart or just to help someone else it is increasingly becoming a user pays society for absolutely everything , I have property up north , far north and it seems still to be like the nz my grandparents left me , where people wave at each other in cars favours are given and received without expectation of payment or wats in it for me if I help u , after being up there I go back down to Auckland and despair at the self indulgent , over priced under funded hell hole it has.become . This has all happened and changed in a relatively short space of time 20-25 years that I have witnessed leading to the absolute shambles we find ourselves in today . Greed rules in nz always has , I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that somebody who is willing to be martyred will stand up and try to create a path for change away from any parties currently standing they all stand for for the same shit are designed to divide us , because at the end of the day labour and national when it comes down to the crux of things are not that far apart really at all and the underlying agendas are implemented regardless of who is in power. Why does jacinda break all her promises once in power that hit her elected in the first place doesn’t really make a lot of sense but is very good at running distraction , John keys parliament used to slip in amendments like anti terrorism search and seizure amendments and basically wateva they needed at the time late at nite when there were no politicians left in the chamber to oppose or under the guise of other laws , jacinda was able to change things via the front door , but with out proper consultation and debate and discussion it erodes the very basis of our democracy and the laws that we the people are supposed to live within as we make the laws for us the people to live in peace and harmony and to provide safety and security with in , kinda why we still have a jury elected from our peers to judge any of us who commits a crime or breaks these laws when we start to take shortcuts on the process and procedures for such laws doesn’t it call in to question the validity of every piece of legislation , we have processes and checks and balances for good reason and no one person or party or government should be able to pass knee jerk judgment and decide wat they think is best, that’s not how things work and if snap judgments are to be made isn’t it better that it’s put to the people and they be asked and ban a jacinda thinking we can’t handle deciding and just decide for us , because last time I looked we actually her salaries and all the other fat cats in parliament who have done nothing to sort issues with people getting their payouts still to this day in ch ch , wat the frk is going on , the issues and stuff dealt with and reported on daily is fluffy waffle crap that’s not even worth watching the news for it’s been nearly 10 years and people still are no closer to sorting their home issues assoc with the earthquake there are so many issues in nz that never ever get msm attention yet they are massive problems affecting large groups of citizens , why ? No accountability , zero frks given , I could write about this shit all night I’m not siding with anyone or taking up the poor persons crusade , I just merely social commentating on the plague of inequality and hypocritical thinking and two sets of rules implementation that seems to prevalent at the very place that it shouldnt be at all , I don’t think I’m naive to hope or think that a democracy is or should be “government of the people, by the people , for the people “ . But that ain’t wats going on presently and it doesn’t look like it will be changing , Aussie seems to be the place the actually look after and put their citizens first instead of letting the floodgates open so that the healthcare system can be free loaded upon and the infrastructure and resources can be abused , nz was an amazing place once upon time but the greed that has existed for generations and is never satisfied means that there is a real dark underbelly or current that runs through nz which affects everyone especially those that are susceptible or can’t fend for themselves I.e the elderly , if you have an ageing population that has done nothing but work the majority of their lives , remember harder times after the war from their parents and spent their life enriching no as a whole by living good lives , having families etc why the frk are u going to distress them now in their twilight years when they have already gone through major trauma lost everything with the super scheme scam in the 80’s govt frking them over , the credit crisis , then the digital age , why can’t the banks keep processing cheques it doesn’t affect me doesn’t cost any more to have the faculty or the service that can be used by our elderly or the banks shitting or getting rid of cash all these things the hove should make mandatory to big banks who are anxious to get rid of but still want to take billions each quarter and not do anything for these charges and services they seem to be reducing , why in every other culture are the elderly revered and looked up to and in our European kiwi style we ship them off to homes or villages that drain them of all their money and dignity at the end , (I’ve seen it first hand ) why can’t they be left alone and cheques that are only used by the elderly be left to die out with that generation because they would do why are we cutting them off prematurely it’s not on and is absolutely disgraceful , respect those who paved the way and frk the cancel culture out the frkn door , sick of it all and a different idea of change or cancellation every week , hope this all makes sense lol sorry not sorry in advance 🙂
The purpose of these hypotheticals is to capture the things people value. To that extent, imaginary and unrealistic hypotheticals can be far superior to realistic ones. Realistic hypotheticals have baggage and pragmatic shielding that needs to be wanded away to get to the core.
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