I read the terrorist’s manifesto and I didn’t see any reference whatsoever to Trans allies or gender identity in any of it, so why the Christ as a response to this terrorist atrocity will we be making gender identity a hate crime???
That’s like solving the climate crisis with a bullshit virtue signalling emergency declaration.
The Prime Minister is emotionally welded to the Christchurch atrocity, (it took an incredible amount of pressure for her to postpone the Christchurch memorial because of Covid) so she is prepared to burn an enormous amount of political capital to ram these hate speech laws through.
Now I have an enormous problem with including religion in hate speech laws, because I personally hate religion.
I have a plethora of reasons why religion is a fucking plague, but because we live in a liberal progressive democracy, I tolerate religion, including fucking Scientology, so I shouldn’t EVER have to fear being criminalised because I speak openly against religion.
What Labour are trying to implement here are Blasphemy and Heresy laws.
But put that to one side, how on earth is Gender Identity hate speech laws a response to a white supremacist terror attack?
By including Gender Identity as hate speech, you open up the possibility of people being criminalised for misusing someones pronoun. Now, I consider it basic courtesy to respect an individuals mana and address them as they wish to be addressed, but do I think someone should be sent to prison if they don’t recognise that?
Is that the type of State power you want? To criminalise people who misuse pronouns? How the fuck is that keeping us safe from white supremacist terror attacks?
Is that where the debate will go?
Of course it will!
Have you seen the woke online when it comes to these issues?
They are puritanical in their book burning zeal.
Kiwi’s will watch the woke on social media go into their crocodile death spins on anyone who dares questions this and they will quickly stop fearing hate speech directed at minorities and start fearing hate speech laws directed agains them.
It will be like the Salam witch trials combined with The Spinoff Kangaroo court, the list of micro aggressions the Woke want to criminalise will terrify middle New Zealand.
National are too clumsy to use a culture war trap like this, but ACT aren’t.
ACT strategists will be gleefully rubbing their hands at such a political gift.
What is most tragic in all of this is that hate speech laws aren’t the fucking problem! The fucking problem is that despite spending over $100million each year, the entire Intelligence Apparatus of NZ, the SIS (Secret Intelligence Services), the GCSB (Government Communications Security Bureau), the NSG (National Security Group), the CNSN (Cabinet National Security Committee), the ODESC (Officials’ Committee for Domestic and External Security Coordination), the SIB (Security and Intelligence Board), the CTCC (Counter-Terrorism Coordinating Committee), the NICC ( National Intelligence Coordination Committee) the IAD (Intelligence and Assessments Directorate), the NRU (National Risk Unit) and the NSPD (National Security Policy Directorate), ALL missed this terrorist plotting his atrocity.
Glossing over such a cascade failure of intelligence and pretending that gender identity hate speech laws is a response is jaw dropping in its intellectual bankruptcy.
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I wouldn’t say I hate religion, even after having recieved the pointy end of stick from christianity, but i understand how people would hate it. For me, christianity is a bad dream housed in an otherwise pastoral setting. Like living inside a reprint of an old painting everyone stuck on their working class walls in 1952. ahhh, so peaceful. It should be such a nice dream. But the people organised religions attract are some of the most hypocritcial, dangerous, and vile creatures that slithered over the earth. They turn the quiet into a real life version of East of Eden. I see no problem with a self-proclaimed witch as long as our humanitarian goals co-incide. I probably wouldn’t hate them if we disagreed unless they were constantly attacking people weaker than them for their own cathartic release. Yeah, so no right wing witches.
The way to get around choosing the wrong pronoun is to call everyone comrade. That’ll make you stand out from the crowd of delusional pretend capitalists we know as kiwis. Failing that, invent a non-specific collective noun to suit, or just use “human”. And stay off social media. SOlvEd.
“What is most tragic in all of this is that hate speech laws aren’t the fucking problem! The fucking problem is that despite spending over $100million each year, the entire Intelligence Apparatus of NZ, the SIS (Secret Intelligence Services)………….”
Have to agree a million fucking percent!
This cancel culture is actually worse than religion. With religion there is the chance of forgiveness. The prodigal son is welcomed home, the shepherd seeks out the one lost sheep. Not with these self righteous woke morality police
This is the only way the right win back the middle. This is the Blairite’s Achilles heal – she can’t help herself being so wedded in the Grey Lynn Mafia. Agree this will play into Act’s hands. Then again this is a unique political situation and the majority of the middle are still acting like extras in the Lego movie and enjoying their jet skis and outdoor pizza ovens funded by cheap debt.
“is jaw dropping in it’s intellectual bankruptcy”.
As is much (all so far) of the commentary from RNZ National and I’m guessing every other woke whipped so called news outlet in the country.
It’s why I struggle to even listen anymore,or, for that matter, even read much of what appears on these pages; much less comment on it myself.
Moreover I’m certain I’m not alone. Zero comments on the revived ” survival acres” blog, precious few on Kevin Hester’s.
I’ve got more than enough to keep me occupied prepping for what’s coming, that which AFKTT constantly warns you about.
I suggest more of you stop talking and start doing.
Time is short.
Indeed, time is very short when it comes to preparing for the economic/financial tsunami. Fraud, FOMO (fear of missing out) and ultra-low interest rates are all that are holding it together now.
Just think, Christmas 2020 will be the last time it will be celebrated via rampant consumerism in NZ.
And you act surprised Martyn? It’s been abundantly clear for years that Ardern and Robertson’s party is a LINO party – Labour in name only. They are a party of identity politics + neoliberalism = “progressive” neoliberalism.
“National are too clumsy to use a culture war trap like this …” Well there’s also the problem that some National MPs will agree with this sort of legislation and vote for it. Just as Labour has given up on the core values of a traditional leftwing party, National has done the same with the core values of the right.
But as you say, the big winner will be the twerking Libertarian. Which is a frightening prospect, in view of the economic policies an eventual ACT-led government would bring in.
The holy doctrines of monotheism are in themselves hate speech… but don’t worry, Bomber… it’s only hate speech if it’s in English…
Blairism. Tack a whole lot of tangential accessories to a major legislation then use the original law out of context to enforce the minor clauses.
Should have fired the lot of them and recruited from with in the NZDF like the old days.
“Now I have an enormous problem with including religion in hate speech laws….”
I have an enormous problem with hate speech laws per se. I don’t know what “hate speech” is, and I’m yet to see a definition, beyond “things I say that you don’t like”. Or vice versa.
I read somewhere recently an observation that, for the woke who are driving this stuff, “hate speech” simply means “speech I hate”. About sums it up, I think.
“…how on earth is Gender Identity hate speech laws a response to a white supremacist terror attack?”
How indeed. The woke are just seizing the moment, aren’t they? That’s how it looks to me. Gender identity – identity in general, in fact – has bugger-all to do with it.
When the woke want religion included, they don’t give a damn about Christians of various denominations. All they care about is Islam. I’m aware of complaints by Muslims about increasing street violence directed at them. What’s the evidence for it? Police crime stats?
If people want to talk about discrimination and outright persecution, try growing up Catholic here, when I did. A fortiori, when my parents’ and grandparents’ generation did. When entire job categories – and accommodation – were closed to Catholics.
Those days are gone, fortunately. And I’m no longer Catholic. But I want to be able to criticise Catholicism, for the awful crimes committed against children in particular by its clergy. Will amended hate speech laws mean that I cannot do that? A pox on the woke, say I!
And let’s not forget what happened in Vienna – where I have extended family – very recently.
It’s totally ‘speech I don’t like’.
Yet if you say ‘only women get pregnant’ or ‘only men have a prostate’ you’re branded a TERF for acknowledging reality – that men don’t get pregnant. Only women have periods. http://www.terfisaslur.com is full of hate for women like me who acknowledge reality.
Like JK Rowling said: ‘live your best life, dress how you please, love who you want’. Words matter and woman means adult human female. It doesn’t mean man in a dress, however pretty he is.
Ditto ‘man’ means adult human male. It doesn’t mean a woke actress who wants to cut her hair and change her name 😉 or indeed, any woman. ‘If names be not correct, then language is not in accordance with the truth of things.’ Confucius
As a Marxist I am opposed to the state banning anything.
It is the bosses’ state.
Using it to ban free speech is to kowtow to the bosses.
The Nazis came first for the communists, not the Jews or homosexuals, because the communists posed a real threat of revolution.
Hate speech laws directed at any group by the bosses’ state is inviting fascism to ban the revolution.
No platforming done by social activists is a right fought out on the streets, as part of the class struggle for revolution.
But using the state’s laws to no-platform anyone is to invite the state to ban anything as part of the bosses’ counter-revolution.
The trans lobby for hate speech laws against gender critical women is part of the counterrevolution of patriarchy in support of capitalism.
Dave brown, the start of the nazi exterminations was against the disabled, not the marxists. Most of the leftist didn’t bat an eyelid when they passed euthanasia laws and then rolled out ambulances to gas the weak and infirm. It’s called the T4 program https://www.britannica.com/event/T4-Program
You mean you’re surprised Martyn? For a while now we’ve known what sort of government this is – a government of identity politics + neoliberalism = “progressive” neoliberalism.
“National are too clumsy to use a culture war trap like this …”
Some National MPs will vote FOR this appalling legislation. Just as Labour has given up on the core values of the traditional left, so the Nats have given up on the core values of the traditional right.
But I agree that the big winner will be The Twerking Libertarian. A frightening prospect, considering the sort of economic policies an eventual ACT-led government would unleash on us.
You need to get with the woke agenda Bomber! What are you a white supremacist alt-right Nazi misogynist with those antiquated thoughts? Joking aside, the worst thing is the woke virtue signalling social justice warriors are never going to be happy because if this is all you think about and this is all that defines you, you are mentally ill. They will continue to shift the goalposts deep into the stadium. Prediction: ACT will gain more seats in 2023.
That very quotable, Nitrium: “they will continue to shift the goalposts deep into the stadium”.
Sadly, I think you’re right too.
I completely agree Martyn. The impacts of hate speech in the UK coupled have resulted in multiple people being accused of hate speech and having these recorded and being visited by police for tweets for directed at no-one in particular saying things like “I believe in the scientific basis of sex as being binary with exceptions not a spectrum “or “that men cannot really become women”.
One man Harry Miller who was visited and interviewed by a policeman at his workplace after posting a limerick turned the tables and took the police to court. The resulting judgment heavily criticised the police. https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/miller-v-college-of-police-judgment.pdf saying “The effect of the police turning up at his place of work because of his political opinions must not be underestimated. To do so would be to undervalue a cardinal democratic freedom. In this country we have never had a Cheka, a Gestapo or a Stasi. We have never lived in an Orwellian society. ”
So he won, resoundingly so. So seeing this included when it is not included in the Royal Commission recommendations is particularly galling.
They don’t like ANY scientific basis for anything.
https://www.womenarehuman.com/seeking-the-truth-about-teen-suicides-and-puberty-blockers/ the ‘they will suicide!’ chestnut is rolled out regularly…. instead of getting them psych help, they want to medicalise and drug them, and mutilate them via ‘gender affirming’ surgery…
Kiera Bell won another important case in the UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54450273 NZ msm won’t even REPORT it. Because it doesn’t shout ‘TRANS GOOD! TERFS BAD!’
In 2014 I had first hand experience of just how morally and intellectually bankrupt Andrew Little is.
It became clear during the election campaign (2017) how intellectually bankrupt Jacinda Adern was (is)…”Time to get serious about Climate Change” and other electioneering bullshit with no sane policies in sight. As I said at the time, words come easily; action does not.
Now we have had it revealed to us that Jacinda is not only intellectually bankrupt but is also morally bankrupt, making sure the crew of NZ Titanic have loaded weapons in case the 3rd-class passengers decide to try to escape from the rapidly flooding lower decks.
Charles Hugh Smith has published another insightful piece on the collapse of the USA, which has many similarities with the collapse of the USSR, (and many profound differences, as discussed by Dmitri Orlov).
Sadly, a lot of what CHS say about America applies to NZ.
….’Documentarian Adam Curtis called this artifice as reality hyper-normalization, a concept also referred to as super-normalization: “normal life” is stripped of authenticity in favor of a simulacrum “normal” that supports those at the top of the status quo. This “new normal” reaches extremes of artifice, hence hyper-normalization.
As long as everyone thinks there are no alternatives to this hyper-normalized simulacrum, this artificial construct appears to be immutable–everything is forever.
But once the power structure admits, however minimally, that it no longer has the answers to the decay of the social-economic order, then the entire artificial construct collapses in a heap. This is the sociology of collapse: people accept a facade of artifice and propaganda without actually believing any of it, though they do have a limbic loyalty to the founding ideals of the State.
The ideologues (True Believers) are avoided as dangerous brown-nosers, and the Dissenters are avoided because it’s not worth being sent to digital Siberia (shadow-banned, deleted, marginalized) just to publicly call attention to the abject failure of status quo institutions and organs of propaganda.
What’s real is denial, repression of dissent, group-think, virtue-signaling and a profound loss of competence. What’s hyper-normalized artifice is all the media spew about how great everything is going to be once we print and squander another couple trillion dollars to prop up the zombie corporations, institutions and government agencies until the magical vaccine time machine returns us to the glorious debt-dependent overconsumption of 2019.
The USSA has not yet admitted that the decay of its socio-economic order is unstoppable, and so the internal gulag has yet to be breached. But artifice is not a substitute for reality, and what’s unsustainable (hyper-normalized artifice) unravels very quickly once the first thread is pulled.
The USSR took 20 years to unravel, but 19 years of the decay were hidden by an increasingly disconnected-from-reality simulacra of “success” and competence: the USSR lost the race to the moon in 1969 and 20 years later two decades of decay led to collapse.
The USSA responded to the dot-com crash of 2000 with artifice and propaganda, an absurdly transparent simulacra of “success” and competence. Twenty years of decay has brought us to the precipice of collapse, and the internal gulag of TINA–there is no alternative– is fraying.
The incontestable incompetence of the USSA’s monopolies, institutions and agencies is about to take center stage in 2021. The sociology of collapse will be followed by a not-be-missed banquet of consequences.’
https://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec20/USSA12-20.html
Just to keep the record correct, it was 2011 that Andrew Little showed me how unreliable, cowardly and slippery he was (is).
In 2014 it was Andrew Judd who displayed extreme cowardice and deceit, and ‘sold out for thirty pieces of silver’.
It is necessary to protect trans people from hate speech because of the large number of them driven to suicide by their current existence in NZ. There are many other downsides to the casual exclusion of gender diverse Aotearoans. But it doesn’t much matter if you die in a hater’s gunsight, or by your own hands; you are still just as dead. If you are thinking that they should; just harden up, and trust to being given a fair go like everyone else, then that’s not been very useful advice thus far:
“This study showed that the mental health problems affecting
transgender people have strong associations with the gender
minority stress that they experience. These findings were
illustrated by the predicted probabilities of reporting
psychological distress symptoms, NSSI risk, suicidal ideation,
and suicide attempts which were statistically significantly
higher and clinically meaningfully higher for those reporting
high levels of enacted stigma compared with those reporting
low enacted stigma.”
https://countingourselves.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Accepted-Author-Version_Enacted-stigma-protective-factors-mental-health_Counting-Ourselves.pdf
There is no doubt that the rainbow community face terrible hate, and that terrible hate has negative impacts – but how does gender identity hate speech laws stop the next terrorist act?
Bomber
I would argue more that the hate directed against the rainbow community is in itself a terrorist act, at least; when conducted in a premeditated and coordinated manner. Ironically that would likely be by those with strong ties to certain (not all) religious groups. Verbal assault is already a crime, but one that is difficult to get police very interested in.
This is of course a separate issue to; what extent the state can intrude upon an individual’s freedom of speech, and how much is an organization of people to be given the same rights as individual people? But if such hate speech laws were to be enacted, then; gender and racial criteria for the definition of hate speech (as well as religious) would not be amiss. Something to stop people going to have abortions being subjected to organized abuse and threats would be good too.
The most common people in NZ committing suicide are European and other …. you know the ones that get no protection under law, and the woke and media and lefties are out with their vigilante groups to take down, the male, pale and stale.
https://www.mentalhealth.org.nz/assets/Suicide/2020-Annual-Provisional-Suicide-Statistics.pdf
Great rant Martyn.
This grave oversight may reflect a lack of parity between NZ and its more ’superior’ partners in spying. Likely to them, NZ is expendable. What a shame that we have the need to conform when our strength lies in our defiance. Oh well.
I am way to the right of you Martyn but by fuck you are totally on the button with your analysis.
Typical labour. They love to sneak in policies that they didn’t campaign on.
They identified an issue with concentrating on Islamic terrorism last time, so it appears they are casting their net wide this time. A good excuse for a future failure: we were spread too thin. Solution: more bureaucracy and invasive measures.
This appears to be an illusion of making progress while acting as a diversion from the many deprivations in society they refuse to resolve. As well as careerist opportunism.
I am a Catholic, I have heard insults about my faith, since I was 5 years old. New Zealand all ready has laws to protect me if this language becomes really offensive, especially in the work place. I feel those laws are strong enough now and these hate crime laws are designed to suppress the free speech of people whom the govt and special interest group disapprove of. We do NOT have to fly the Rainbow Flag. It is not compulsory to support this community and I am sure many lesbians and gays, would rather we did not falsely pretend to support them. I do actually, but that is another point. I tolerate the gun lobby, my choice. We all are different in our viewpoints. We do have to accept human rights legislation and be tolerant of others differences. All this is covered under NZ very good Human Rights legislation.
I am a Catholic, I have heard insults about my faith, since I was 5 years old. New Zealand all ready has laws to protect me if this language becomes really offensive, especially in the work place. I feel those laws are strong enough now and these hate crime laws are designed to suppress the free speech of people whom the govt and special interest group disapprove of. We do NOT have to fly the Rainbow Flag. It is not compulsory to support this community and I am sure many lesbians and gays, would rather we did not falsely pretend to support them. I do actually, but that is another point. I tolerate the gun lobby, my choice. We all are different in our viewpoints. We do have to accept human rights legislation and be tolerant of others differences. All this is covered under NZ very good Human Rights legislation.
In my experience New Zealanders have always had a very tolerant attitude to gender diversity and gayness…this springs from our largely tolerant secular society and our Maori / Polynesian ancestry.
Christian fundamentalist bigotry largely disappeared in the middle of last century…except for a few religious nutjobs and diehards who were ridiculed
So this is a strawman, a red herring and an attack on New Zealanders ….It is an attempt at divide New Zealand culture and society and conquer ( by globalists).
I will NEVER vote woke virtuous bigot Green again
Hate speech laws= fascism by stealth
+100
Ain’t no riddle man. The ‘Pyramid of White Supremacy’ that Woke teachers are training up your children in explains it all.
Terrorism and genocide is just along a slippery slide that starts out with discrimination, minimisation, and indifference. Our kids are failing in math and English but they’re getting chock full of this PC stuff. You think it came from no where? You’ve not been paying attention.
—
ref. http://ahnz.anarkiwi.co.nz/2000s-generation-z/
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