JUST WHEN YOU’RE THINKING Labour’s activists have become smart, caring and (almost) wise; they prove themselves to be anything but. A pseudonymous contributor to The Standard, Te Reo Putake, has seized the opportunity created by Nikki Kaye’s resignation to demand that the Greens pull Chloe Swarbrick from the Auckland Central race.
“The choice for the Greens is tricky” opines TRP. “They really do need to max out their party vote, but they also do need to get their heads around MMP and recognise that they are a list party only.”
We will deal with the absurd contradiction at the heart of this statement presently. Meantime, let’s allow him/her/them/it to finish their thought: “The Greens should do the right thing by voters in Auckland Central and give the nod to the Labour candidate.”
Whew! Where to begin! First-off, let’s dispose of TRP’s nonsensical assertion that the Greens “are a list party only”.
A “list party only” might make sense in a country where a pure, list-based, system of proportional representation has been in place for a long time. But, New Zealand is not one of those countries. For most of its history, New Zealand operated a single-member, constituency-based, first-past-the post (FPP) electoral system. Even after a quarter-of-a-century of mixed member proportional representation (MMP) this country’s political culture still ranks Electorate MPs well above List MPs. Any political party that declined to field electorate candidates would simply not be recognised as a serious political player.
If TRP doesn’t know this, then he/she/they/it have no business posting political commentaries on an allegedly serious political website like The Standard. I strongly suspect, however, that TRP knows very well that a list-only party in New Zealand is an electoral nonsense. But, if that is the case, then TRP’s Standard post can only be seen as yet one more unsettling example of Labour’s political arrogance.
Tactics? Strategy? TRP doesn’t have a clue!
Let’s offer this political naïf a small tutorial on the strategic possibilities of the Auckland Central contest.
Obviously, it will take place amidst the much more important nationwide contest between the parties of the Left and Right. This battle is likely to be a much more closely fought, now that Judith Collins is leading the Right, than would have been the case had either Simon Bridges or Todd Muller been the National Party leader facing-off against Jacinda Ardern. A wise Labour Party (one less concerned with getting its trade union lawyer mates into Parliament) would, therefore, already be considering the ramifications of such a close fight. A crucial part of that process, would be weighing the advantages and disadvantages of taking out the “insurance policy” of ceding Auckland Central to the Greens.
It needs careful thought because a close contest would confront progressive voters with a dilemma. They would be torn between giving their vote to Labour – clearly in need of every vote it could get – and party-voting Green, just to keep it in the parliamentary arena. But, with the Greens hovering perilously close to the 5 percent MMP threshold, there’s the real possibility that a vote for the Greens could end up being wasted. That possibility is doubly damaging: not only because it encourages progressives to vote Labour rather than Green, but also because it is likely to cause “deep greens” (the sort of folk who used to vote for Nandor Tanczos) to question the point of voting at all.
Either way, the Green vote would be suppressed, making the prophecy of its failure to clear the 5 percent MMP threshold self-fulfilling.
It just amazes me that Labour Party activists like TRP can’t see this. Because, if they’re unable to recognise the threat posed to the overall progressive vote by not helping the Greens, then they will also be unable to see the clear strategic advantage of ceding Auckland Central to Chloe.
Let’s just walk through the argument.
Jacinda tips the wink to her Auckland Central supporters, suggesting obliquely that they might like to give Chloe a helping-hand. Instantly swept away is the fear that the Greens might fall just below the MMP threshold. (Imagine if they ended up with 4.9 percent of the Party Vote!) Now a Green presence in Parliament is assured and Labour has a reliable coalition partner. What’s more, the deep greens now have a very good reason for party-voting Green – not just in Auckland Central, but all over the country. Far from being suppressed, the Green Party vote is maximised – along with the influence of progressive New Zealanders generally.
In the face of a now reinvigorated Left, it is the turn of the supporters of the Right to become demoralised. What if National and Act, together, are still a few percentage points short of a winning total? Would it not then be time to consider reviving Winston Peters’ fortunes? With the looming prospect of Labour and the Greens careening-off into the next triennium in a souped-up Prius without a handbrake, National’s numbers might take a tumble.
And what would that mean TRP? That’s right, it would dramatically increase the likelihood of Helen White – No. 50 on Labour’s List – joining Chloe in the House of Representatives!
Were the Greens to heed your advice, and pull Chloe out of the race, Labour may, or may not, retake Auckland Central. There would, however, be an increased chance that no Greens would be joining Helen White on the Opposition benches. By acting strategically, however, Labour dramatically increases its chances of a second term; supplies itself with a reliable and progressive coalition partner; wins enough support to bring Helen White in on the List; and makes sure the Greens most popular MP is in the House of Representatives with her.
If you ever wondered why it is better to give than to receive, TRP, now you know. It’s because when you give, the value of the benefits you receive in return is almost always greater than the worth of the original gift.
I sincerely hope Claire Czabo and her comrades down at Labour Party HQ in Wellington have a word with the people at The Standard. Just a little pep talk about loose lips not only sinking ships, but also deep-sixing the trust and confidence of potentially vital coalition partners.
GO CHLOE!!!!
Labour, and all wider Left wing voters: Please, Vote Chloe on this one (then you can party vote Labour or whatever).
Worldwide, the “Left” lose out time and again because they divide their votes. Will we ever learn??
I second that Kheala. Chris is on the money once again.
Having a look at the 2017 result for Auk Central (https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2017/electorate-details-01.html) and this appears a very sensible proposition.
Shout out to Epsom – thanks for showing how this can work!
The last thing we need is another sociopath as Prime Minister. #NationalNotFitToGovern
Er … Epsom shows precisely how it does NOT work.
If Labour voters in Epsom were a monolithic block, all acting as one, then they would all have voted tactically for Goldsmith. The combined Nat-Lab candidate vote is higher than Seymour’s (2017). So ACT would be out of Parliament.
But the voters didn’t do that, because they are individuals, just like voters in Auckland Central. Deals are between parties, not voters.
Nat voters in Epsom have been keeping the Rimmer hologram alive.
This longstanding arrangement in Epsom demonstrates the success of so-called “tactical voting” rather well.
The Rimmer hologram. Priceless, a big tick for Jase.
Dang it,…. I was looking forwards to party voting NZ First for the first time in my life. Now its back to last election when I party voted Green and electorate voted Adern. I guess its the same old, same old for me then…
Bright side is, it keeps Collins and Brownlee out. And ACT.
Te Reo Putake is a problem like the mad cat lady . If they say anything , I’ll do the exact opposite.
Wild Katipo ; – you “Wild Cat” you really are; – keep it up. I will vote labour and NZF again as I did last time.
Did you see Winston slamming ‘the Median scam’ “Market manipulation” corruption today, read this;
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2007/S00154/market-manipulation-in-the-energy-sector.htm
Market Manipulation In The Energy Sector
By New Zealand Government
The Minister for State-Owned Enterprises Winston Peters, has expressed an equal measure of shock and concern at the recent Electricity Authority Board’s preliminary finding that Meridian Energy was involved in an ‘undesirable trading situation’ …More»
Bless you and your family, matey,…
Jack Sparrow: “I prefer rum… rum’s good”
https://youtu.be/nc49jPl5UGE?t=22
Anyone who votes to keep NZF in has some serious thinking to do, why on earth would you. Apart from Tracy Martin they are appalling. Just because Winston speaks out about foreign control sometimes.. (the greens are opposed to foreign control also) Shane Jones well the ego he has is more than all of NZF put together.
Your being a bit harsh- there’s a lot of good people in NZ First. And they run a tight ship.
Jack Sparrow comes with the ship
https://youtu.be/yvtG6JLH00A?t=3
I haven/t seen all the people in the NZ First leaders group – are they mostly look-alikes of Jack Sparrow? Gosh, a beaut band of buccaneers then. Haven’t they been outfaced by the Gnats though? Check out my Hieronymous Bosch links on the other post – can you pick out the villains from the goodies there? NZF did find gold with the Gold Card for oldies, and stopped the flow of the Winebox for a time, but there is still a trickle. But lately they have become erratic, and the time for creative fiction is over – we have Big Problems almost as unspeakable as Voldemoort. Perhaps instead of the Pirates of the Carribean shorts we should seek out Harry Potter and his friends as they fight against evil, and some of them die. Rum. very rum.
Yes and there’s Ron Mark and a fair few others, more than capable of geopolitical sensibility;s to direct how we should handle the 5 eyes agreement, American belligerence and china’s animosity.
Seriousnessly you need to think more, Greyworb.
Chris
I just looked up the definition of presumptuous.
It says: ‘failing to observe the limits of what is permitted or appropriate’.
Maybe it is actually permitted, or even appropriate for many, to vote National in AKL Central? Yes?
Good luck!
Nay,…its not permitted, its only foolishness and stupidity to do that.
Why would you want to do that anyways?
The post on the Standard got it wrong. But so does this rebuttal.
“ceding Auckland Central” … because the voters have no say? All the research on previous NZ elections tells us that a significant percentage of Labour voters do not regard the Greens as an automatic second choice, or preferred coalition partner. (I don’t think that myself, but I don’t ignore data just because I don’t like it).
The party might “cede” an electorate. But the pesky voters might have their own opinions. Jacinda can “tip the wink”, but if there’s a Labour candidate on the ballot paper, they will get votes whether Labour want them or not. Damn voters, disobeying orders … it’s like they think their vote belongs to THEM.
Aye, so what we should be doing is voting for Chloe.
Not withstanding the quality or otherwise of TRP’s opinion why on earth do you think that the Greens stand a shit show in Auckland Central? The voters liked Nikki Kaye, they are comfortable with National they are almost equally comfortable with Labour as a party and consistently turn away from The Green Party massively.
If Swarbrick had been the Labour candidate and not promoted cannabis then she would win hands down. And the Greens this term have been vote repelling. Social engineering at its most woke does not attract voters.
The standard left, know it all, position on this occasion is more than taking the horse to water and forcing it to drink, its akin to kidnapping the beast and drowning it, for it’s own good of course.
Maybe a couple of terms ago yes, but the Greens have hardly endeared themselves lately, have they?
Their recent policy on ‘social issues / inequality’ is by far the best thing that they have said in the past 3 years, of course if we have Winston back it simply will not go anywhere.
Chris Trotter says,“ Were the Greens to heed your advice, and pull Chloe out of the race, Labour may, or may not, retake Auckland Central.” A true but not very profound statement.
I looked up the stats of electoral votes for the last three elections
In 2017 Labour + green vote was 15953 and National 1173: National candidate elected .
In 2013 Labour +Green vote was 15510 and National’s 13198:National candidate elected .
.
In 2010 Labour + Green vote was17224 and National’s 14321:National candidate elected .
.
Party vote 2017 – Auckland Central
Nat 39.23
Lab 37.79
Green 13.9
Percentage of votes per candidate (rounded down)
Nat 39
Lab 37
Green 9
Had the Green Party not stood a candidate in 2017, Labour would have won.
The Greens have spent the better part of 3 years either being invisible or woke or utterly irrelevant and or all of the above, so much so the phone is beyond being off the hook, it’s been blocked. Unlike previous years they have not even come close to enhancing their vote.
I am guessing what you (and Chris Trotter) are saying is go with the least likely candidate to get elected, bypass the most likely left candidate and somehow the entire Auckland Central electorate will defy logic and gravity and vote Greens, not Labour and defeat National. Come. On!
XRAY- Assuming that you are replying to me. No I’m saying exactly what you are saying.”Had the Green Party not stood a candidate in 2017, Labour would have won.” But not just in 2017 but in the last three elections.”
Adern was beaten twice by Kaye because the left vote was split between Labour and Greens not because Kaye was the most popular candidate.
Xray: “The Greens have spent the better part of 3 years either being invisible or woke or utterly irrelevant and or all of the above…”
Indeed. Swarbrick’s casual insulting of older people, and in the House of all places, really got up my nose. Combine that with the behaviour of Marama Davidson and her mates at that Auckland vigil after the March shootings last year and I hope that they’ve shot to blazes any chance they had of being re-elected.
Any Auckland Central voter with half a brain won’t be voting for Swarbrick.
Were the Greens still focused on the environment, as was once the case, they’d still have my vote.
But they’ve long since gone off down the social justice and woke, identity politics cul-de-sac. I’m done with them. I most sincerely hope that enough of their former voters feel the same way, such that they’re tipped out of parliament at this election. They’ll be no loss.
Yes, greens would be perfect! But that silly behavior from Golrez and Davidson is exactly what puts me off. I’m all for social justice, REAL social justice, but not the rubbish “woke” style trash that doesn’t really compute for anyone with half a brain cell.
Also Genters obsession with light rail is really annoying. The original light rail plan down many of the major ithsmus corridors was great. But to the airport its just stupid. Yeah Mangere? So what? There’s plenty of buses from there to existing rapid transit.
TRP and “The standard” are run by idiots.
I was booted off “The standard before covid 19 after I as abused by National Party trolls as a disabled person, so being a ‘left leaning blogger’ – I was banned from “the standard”.
I now happily reside on ‘The daily Blog’ and Scoop, where we are a free to think our way blog-site and press release site, so it’s Labour party’s loss using The Standard” as their trumpet.
And their election to loose doing so.
Martyn is a good editor far better than those on “the Standard’ ever were.
I am now happy to be here.
My family’s naval history and a song I share with you.
Looking Glass – Brandy (You’re a Fine Girl)
https://youtu.be/DVx8L7a3MuE?t=30
I was around 7 years old when that song came out. It struck a note with me with my dads side serving. I dedicate this song as a tribute to you, your family, and all serving personnel. Bless you all.
I’m not prepared to knock the whole Standard community over this, in fact TRP stands out as being out of sync with the rest of their contributors most of whom are genuinely left wing, TRP appears to be left wing the same way that Tony Blair is left wing.
When I commented there, I always thought of him as Te Reo Koretake. He is an unthinking Labour loyalist, with horrible authoritarian instincts.
Yes but the damage and manipulative control he exerts over The Standard is way beyond his actual capacity to give a balanced argument. It is no coincidence that so may dislike him.
Ah…?
Auckland, right?
Is that the city the neoliberals crammed full of minions to the foreign banksters at the expense of our actual primary agrarian economy and its infrastructure? Is that the place?
You do know that Auckland, by its very nature, is a logical fallacy?
arch neoliberal and sell out to our best young minds is the mayor who’s struggling to find a $750 MILLION dollar plug for Auckland’s hole.
‘Idiocracy’ is a film made some years ago. The premise is that Joe Bowers, a US army librarian who’s never fired a shot in his life and exists to cash in on his military pension, is picked for an experiment in suspended animation along with a working girl taken off the streets. The reason they were chosen was that neither have family or friends who’d miss them and fit in nicely with various other criteria.
But things go wrong.
Instead of being ‘frozen’ for one year they were frozen for 500 years to awaken to a strange land.
Joe Bowers and his colleague quickly discover that they’re now the most intelligent people on earth after years of media pimped brainwashing and advertising manipulations.
Trust me. It’s a must-see. No? Really dumbasses.
I do truly feel like a Joe Bowers sometimes. I read the news, I watch the reports, I talk to people and I visit here and leave comments like this one and I’m left feeling exactly like the Joe Bowers character.
‘Idiocracy’
Meet Joe Bowers.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
One a more serious note:
Those of you who are not yet ready for the coming financial, climate and viral Armageddon will be taken out and not to brunch dahlings and the Big Blue Belly Natzo’s will simply regard it as a blood sport if the weaker of you succmob.
To win our AO/NZ back, we need to employ an A lister actor ( I could ask for Margot Robbie,Chris Pine or Chiwetel Ejiofor via the director Craig Zobel if you like? ) And we need to employ the talents of a gifted behavioural psychologist to have one or more of our fabulous actors convey to you what it is that you must do and why you haven’t done so thus far.
Fucking around debating our polluted politics isn’t the way out of the nightmare we were lured in to.
We need a brand new vector Victor and it aint “Oooh Hey? I know? Lets all go and live in Auckland?”
Never put to sea, lad. Stay at home and polish up the handle on the big front door.
H.M.S. Pinafore: Act I, “When I Was a Lad”
https://youtu.be/HQ3axkgdQmw?t=24
Deep down many NZ Labour Party “tops” resemble their NZ National Party counterparts–in that they have never really accepted the spirit of MMP, and still harbour fantasies of being the “one to rule them all”.
TRP is right wing Labour and a contrarian centrist. But it is good to get those opinions out there to try and make some progress. Northland and Whangarei are other areas that need serious attention this election as to strategy between Labour, Green and NZ First.
Yes,… terrible flatulence don’t you know….
Rowley Birkin QC – Very Drunk, Terrible Flattulence
https://youtu.be/rh8CQRerBVA?t=20
” Deep down many NZ Labour Party “tops” resemble their NZ National Party counterparts–in that they have never really accepted the spirit of MMP, and still harbour fantasies of being the “one to rule them all”
Yes the same old habits of FFP still dominate current thinking.
Thank you for your observations Chris. If I may add another that is relevant to this discussiion. Last weekend I spoke with Chloe Swarbrick at the Ostend Market on Waiheke, asking her about strategic voting in Auckland Central. She told me that the official Green Party policy is to campaign for the party vote every where – except for two electorates, where their candidates are authorised to run a ‘two ticks’ campaign. These electorate are Auckland Central and Tamaki Makaurau. I understood this to be that the Green Party (and of course Chloe herself) see her as a viable candidate for the constituency vote too. This is of local interest to me, because in the past three elections Nikki Kaye has won by a smaller margin than the Green candidate vote on Waiheke alone. In the bigger picture, as you rightly point out, perhaps this is an electorate where a deal can be made between Labour and Green. I think it would be good for all progressive voters to be clear on their options (and implications of those) in Auckland Central. The Green Party have stated their case: perhaps it’s time for Labour to do the same?
And continuing on in the nautical theme,… and equating Johnny Collins admonition to ‘leave her’… with the old rotten hulk of neo liberalism,…I present to you one of my most heart felt favorites.
Johnny Collins – Leave Her Johnny
https://youtu.be/4fVQwzv5Qfc?list=PLIACfym586083vOH_BAosH3quN6cBS2MJ&t=300
It brings to mind the Orpheus, of those out at sea while we sleep well and safe in our beds at night …and of politics that is purely land based and parasitical. It is ‘time to leave her’. Anything to do with neo liberalism. It is an old rotten hulk.
And it will drag us all down.
TRP has written much much worse ,,
TRP about wikileaks ,, ” the beneficiaries of wikileaks are primarily crooks and capitalists. Despite all the handwringing about St Julian fucking his way into self imposed house arrest, I haven’t read a case from the left that wikileaks has helped end poverty, diminished climate change or improved the lives of working people.
Instead, they have weakened trust in participatory democracy, emboldened the anti-state and neo fascist arms of the right and paved the way for the success of Putin in the recent Presidential election. The American one, not the Russian one.” …
Multiple times TRP has taken part in what is described here ,,, http://againstrape.net/assange-un-rapporteur-on-torture-is-right-to-be-alarmed-at-the-manipulation-of-rape-allegations/
“Nils Melzer warns of the implications of the witch-hunt against Mr Assange in the course of documenting the effects of his forced confinement, now imprisonment. Mr Melzer wrote in his Op Ed: …
…Assange had been systematically slandered to divert attention from the crimes he exposed. Once he had been dehumanized through isolation, ridicule and shame, just like the witches we used to burn at the stake, it was easy to deprive him of his most fundamental rights without provoking public outrage worldwide. And thus a legal precedent is being set…” https://newmatilda.com/2019/09/23/weaponising-rape-myths-and-consent-in-the-hunt-for-julian-assange/
TRP has 7 authors posts about Julian Assange ,,,, how many times do we think he mentioned a restoratove justice system ,, or of involving the women complaintants in the punishment / treatment for Julian Assange ??
Fuck all to none I bet ,,,
The Standard – Assange Arrested
April 11th, 2019
TRP
47.1.2
“I think it’s kinda ironic that Assange was rudely awakened yesterday to find he was fucked without protection.” https://thestandard.org.nz/julian-assange-journeys-end/
In his own witch hunt writings TRP wrote this about the other ‘JA’ ,, ,, “A flurry of reports overnight suggest that right wing anti democracy activist Julian Assange is about to lose his asylum in the Equadorean embassy, London.”
and he wrote this about those fighting for the rights of Assange , ” The paranoid anti state righties who back Assange will be in a froth this morning, ”
In response to TRPs nonsense a poster ‘Morrissy’ wrote ,,,, ” !!!!????!?!???!?!?!?!???
Noam Chomsky, Daniel Ellsberg, Brian Eno, Nicky Hager, Ralph Nader, John Pilger, John Kiriakou, Ray McGovern, Sharon Ward, Roger Waters, Vivienne Westwood, etc, etc. are “paranoid anti state righties” now, are they? When did that happen? ”
https://justice4assange.com/
ANother TS author “Ad” joined in and doubled down ,,much like a right wing troll , Ad :” Every single one of them are paranoid and anti-state. Whether that makes them “righties” is mere labelling.”…
… John Key would have liked that mouthfull to go with his rote ” Hagers a left wing conspiracy theorist” ,,,, and both Key and that rich private New Zealander, Peter Thiel would share TRPs / feelings towards assange and wikileaks ,,, https://www.businessinsider.com.au/palantir-wikileaks-apology-2011-2?op=1&r=US&IR=T
https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/top-news/palantir-paypal-offshoot-becomes-weapon-war-whistleblowers-wikileaks/
TRP ,, The Real Plastic ,,, astro ,,, jerk ,,,
ditto Advantage / Ad ,,, https://thestandard.org.nz/re-open-new-zealand/ ” It is great to see former Prime Minister Helen Clark join the debate about re-opening New Zealand’s borders. We need it. There is no better time for New Zealand to re-launch itself to the world. “
TRP has never had the privilege of an upbringing that includes Gilbert and Sullivan obviously. That’s his problem front and foremost. Plain for all of us to see.
Can we stick to thinking about our own trial by fire – the election coming soon? The Assange business is so deeply tragic and aroused hysteria in all meanings of the word.
Leave poor Julian to suffer at present while we try to contain our own choices of the seven deadly sins in order to attend to what should be our priority, getting a reasonably decent set of knowledgeable and practical humans elected for another term in NZ. Concentrate and look at the big problems looming so high that we are in shadow all the time. We have to use our own energy to make light to see by, so FGS shine all those who care about people more than money and reheated hatreds.
Hahahaha – spot on Chris. Labour has always and will continue to be strategically stupid.
Sing willow, tit willow tit willow…
You need a culture influx…..let me give you a helping hand….
Martyn Green – Willow, Tit-Willow (The Mikado) (1939)
https://youtu.be/6ATvmE4QsKk?t=2
Wild Katipo You are a shining example of why we need to have humans running our affairs, you remind us that we are all pretentious and have to pause now and then to laugh at ourselves before we go on making an attempt to reach a worthwhile and wise goal.
Frank Labour begun this 3 yr reign under a hamstrung state with making an error of being coned by Gerry Brownlee on the very first day remember when Labour’s Chris Hipkins starting the voting for the “Speaker” who was to be Trevor Mallard.
Then Gerry Brownlee ‘coned’ Hipkins into believing Labour never had the votes?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/343313/parliament-s-opening-a-first-day-farce
Labour was coned and lost their way since, as National using a “bluff” got the upper hand by placing more control over many select committees that slowed the progress of many changes the new government needed to pass in the three years so yes you are right, Labour coalition needs to smarten up this election.
I love your coned conned typo. Very relevant for central AKL. Nithing but cones cones cones…funny that…its a left wing council doing the planning. And we’ve also been coned we a rates rise thatt we didn’t want!
Bollocks, Chris, your as bad as the guy you criticize,ceding to one or the other is not tactical at all its dumb. Win on your merits, be true to your beliefs and dont undermine your own party, let the voters decide for thsmselves instead of trying to sway them with bull shit advice.
What a lot of naive wet behind the ears lefties writing in their sweet idealistic thoughts. You’re the third one I have read today. We are in the most awful and aweful jam we have ever been in in human history, and you don’t want to even take an entirely legal opportunity to win the election by maximising the vote where it counts – the money parties do that and it is important now fo us to do so to advance the society we live in. I believe we need to adopt the precept with twin ideas of Kindness and Practicality. Being all kindness is too soppy for reality, so it must be tempered with the control of practicality.
This isn’t a tv show or a film. We won’t come out of it if we adopt the slogan ‘Just lie down and be walked on.’ Getting political parties with a semblance of what good behaviour and society is, can only be done by taking all steps available. David Low was from NZ and went to UK pre WW2. One of his cartoons was about spineless Europe not combining against Hitler, just lying down and getting walked over. We started the process here in 1984 and now Labour has to amend some of the damage; National will spitefully make it worse for most of us.
This is the spineless cartoon. https://images.slideplayer.com/30/9547507/slides/slide_19.jpg
For those interested in being informed here is further about the times:
https://slideplayer.com/slide/9547507/
Your reasoning is flawed. If lefties are wet behind the ears, then I doubt your leftwing or green. If you were Green, then your argument might stand up, if you were Labour, you would want the Green cadidate to cede the vote because Labour were closer to rolling the Nats. If as I suspect, your right wing, then you wouldnt want Labour to win that seat and knowing National has no chance you try to manipulate Labour voters to vote Green. Well now, if lefties are wet behind the ears, then the wetness must have seeped through your lughole and turned your brain to rust.Cheers vote Labour. Lol
No, Chris aint woke, never has been , never will be,… and that’s the major difference. He aint a jack ass.
I agree, but not necessarily with Auckland central, I’m really not convinced Chloe can win that seat (though neither am I convinced about Helen so..) . I think the seat Labour should give a wink and a nod to is James Shaw in Wellington central (the finance minister could say he is too busy focusing on the recovery to be an electorate mp, I’ve never understood why the pm and finance ministers wouldn’t be list)
For any deal done, the greens should step aside in Nelson and Dunnes old electorate, vote splitting in nelson gives us Nick Smith . I am absolutely in favor of electorate deals and have always thought the left were ridiculous to criticize them, if they were serious they could have got rid of coat tailing this term when they did the waka jumping bill.
I also think Willow Jean and the greens should step aside in Northland.
If labour wants to be in power it needs to be strategic. Labour voters should party vote Green. National has no morals and no problems with electorate deals , Judith even wants in on the Maori electorates… Every single thing that can be done needs to be done to prevent Judith Collins being Pm.
OMG. No one on this thread has looked at the numbers in Ak Central ; nor the electorate profile, nor the voting trends from the last election. They are not straightforward ; in 2016 there was a a large Asian population, probably many young, and studying. The demographic under 39 – have a look who bothered to vote and who they voted for. There’s a lot of wealth tied up in those who do own their homes ; there’s a large (and I suspect) diminishing transient education based population. Instead it’s we like Chloe so Helen White should give her a seat so the Greens can be saved. I remember these conversations many times over; when Jacinda was standing in AC the Greens were being told they should stand down. They refused, imo rightly so. There is no comparison with
Coromandel ; Labour had nothing to lose by supporting Jeanette Fitzsimon. I also recall other calls about Alliance candidates for Labour electorate candidates to save the sinking ship. Im sorry, but this is not strategic voting. It on the back of an envelope social media opinion. It assumes voters are stupid and will switch votes. Its not that simple. That is all.
Okay Chris – what other seats should the Greens try for to ensure they get 5%. Are there better ones, that they are sure of. Because that is the most important thing. The points Darien raises – are they included in your analysis? Chloe would be a bonus.
From what I’ve seen on that site, I would rate the standard to be an impediment to the Labour party.. I’ve had no less pseudo intellectual than LPrent call me a right wing nut job.. With appalling judgement like that, I would be screaming at the Labour party to put as much distance between themselves and the standard as is possible in a small country… no surprises then their their attempts to emulate the tabloid “all you need to know” approach to political discussion are specious, and shallow at best..
stefan
The left are known for splintering off into factions. I remember that Le Pen nearly got the French government because the left had split their vote into 16 different parties. Trouble is when everyone knows everything already, the time for discussion gets lost in putting others’ mistaken opinions right. I think it isn’t the theme of respect for each human and our need for jobs, decent conditions and wages, that is important to modern Labour, it’s scoring points off the people who want to float different approaches or thinking, or don’t agree with the current theme. In the process the opportunity to devise policies that give practical help at a reasonable cost that suit people asking for improvements, and returning obvious real benefits to them and improving conditions, takes a back seat.
Money systems are all shit, capital competing against capital in an attempt to be top dog, money systems only benefit the elite one percent, time will come for the young when they realize we all need the planet to survive and time will come to ditch the money and realize a World without money can benefit all, Covid and future pandemics bring the worlds people closer together for a common quest. http://Byd0nz.com
The problem with TRP and others of the same ilk is that they have a problem with math.
Helen whatshername is on the verge of winning Auckland central if she can pick up a few thousand votes. 2000 more would do it based on the 2017 result.
Chloe Shitabrick would have to do better than Denise Roache did(Who should still be an MP, not Chloe) by winning more than 12,000+ votes, which, aint gunnah happen.
So Winston wins again.
Comments are closed.