Helen Clark has just come out and supported Jacinda’s handling of this…
Helen Clark backs Jacinda Ardern over handling of sex assault allegations
Former Prime Minister and Labour leader Helen Clark is backing Jacinda Ardern in her handling of the controversy over sexual assault allegations, saying the party has let her down.
…someone with the mana of Aunty Helen would normally be enough, but the right wing pundits and politicians won’t let this go and they will keep trying to drum up scandals and smear, but most importantly neither will the woke activists or activist media journalists let it go.
For the Woke online activists and activist media like Spin Off, the debate will now move to those who have enabled rape culture by not agreeing to the new mantra that allegation is the accepted evidential threshold.
We can see that with the recent attacks on Kelvin Davis.
In the post MeToo landscape, accusation is guilt and due process is cis-male privilege. For the woke, the accusation is enough and anyone who might suggest that we require a higher standard of evidence than accusation are rape culture enablers.
The damage won’t be caused by National attacking Jacinda, it will be the woke who will cause the deepest cuts.
The irony that might sink Jacinda is utterly lost on them.
Again. I don’t believe Jacinda knew the seriousness of these allegations and I think she has been let down by staff with a misplaced sense of loyalty. I don’t think Labour had the capacity to deal with allegations this serious.
Those volunteers with allegations of abuse require to be treated seriously and they weren’t, ultimately the Police are the appropriate place for allegations of sexual assault this serious.
Everything beyond that is just politics and culture war.
I think we should all be calling out what you claim is the new normal of accusation is guilt. It is not. Until proven in a court of law it is innocent. Something our media have let the country down on with their reporting. I think of the recent death of one Peter Ellis should be enough to provide adequate fodder for those that think legalities are to be side stepped. Especially media.
Allegation is certainly not guilt however it is extremely difficult to get a conviction for sexual assault, something like 5% success rate of conviction in particular when the parties know each other.
From what I read the Labour Party allegations are more about highly inappropriate sexual behaviour… and that should be through the Labour Party complaints processes… which does not sound like it works… and then a complaint to police if warranted… based on the seriousness of those complaints… or what the victim wants to do.
There seem to be so many allegations coming out of parliament… a few months ago it was Mr Makhlouf’s fake treasury hack to cover up their own incompetence. Parliament seem to suffer from inability to function normally and problem solve, wokeyness, and not being able to do their own jobs without involving numerous other government agencies to ‘help’ them, with the Natz dirty politics in the mix…
Pathetic.
Ardern is under attack because she has dropped the ball on so many issues.
There is no depth to the Labour Party ranks, the fact that Kevin Davis is acting PM says it all. We all want good things for our country and it people but the talking needs to turn to action.
Lance
On this one you are completely and utterly right,Martyn….suspicion as the new evidential threshold is awful and undermines every humans right to be considered innocent until proven guilty…..it’s the beginning of mob rule,and extremely dangerous.I guess Peter Ellis’ story bears that out.I only hope more robust-minded NZers will agee;but I’m not holding my breath-this has fingerprints of Nationals’ desperation all over it.
I think the whole thing is a load of nonsense…..silly people creating a mountain when there is not even a molehill.
“Again. I don’t believe Jacinda knew the seriousness of these allegations and I think she has been let down by staff with a misplaced sense of loyalty.”
I expect that the party organisation around her have seen her as their only card, (which she certainly is) and must not be allowed to be tarnished by this little problem and in keeping her as much in the dark as possible at every step of the way they have set her up for the worst possible damage without the background knowledge of the situation to be able to make her own judgement.
Most of the people who contribute here , like me , have children older than Jacinda. We still expect them to take some head of what we say, and in most cases they do not dismiss what we say on important matters lightly or dismissively. Jacinda has natural leadership ability obviously ,but that doesn’t endow her with experience and wisdom generations beyond what other mortals have. She is bound to seek and listen to her vastly more experienced advisers on matters like this as is the proper mode of a leader in a democracy. She is not a autocrat or even a president. All decisions should be collective. But.
I do hope that she survives this episode and learns from it that when she catches the slightest whiff of feline excrement she does not allow anyone to pull a chair over the pile but follows her nose till she sees exactly how large and how putrid it is and deals with it herself.
Ultimately she must trust herself in all matters that she will ultimately be held responsible for.
The labour party will be a long time recovering from loosing her if she has to resign over this , and all to protect who or what?
D J S
David, it is feasible that what was going on here, or went on, didn’t reach PM Ardern. In management I sat on a harassment complaint.
It came from a new employee about a supervisor I didn’t particularly like. Nevertheless, I thought that the new employee had got it wrong, and that the supervisor was trying to help. I did nothing. I told the managing director the next time that I saw him, and he agreed with me. The woman settled into her job, and everything panned out OK. The employee had left unusual little notes on my desk and that tempered my decision too.
Now I see that it could have escalated into something ghastly, but I trusted my judgment at that time, and think I made the right call.
In bigger busier workplaces there is so much happening that it is unrealistic to expect everything to reach the upper echelons.
Here, it appears that the original complainant did not at first fully detail her complaint, and that she in fact was not the person who approached Bennett. This seems to add up, as going to Paula Bennett could escalate a situation into something much more stressful than going to the police because rightly or wrongly, I think Bennett appears to have an eye for the main chance, and the importance of focusing on the issue itself may escape her.
However, if any senior person in the PM’s office knew – or got to know- the sort of allegation(s) which started to surface – seemingly in dribs and drabs – if they were unable to properly address it, then the PM should have been told. The precedent of John Key’s office getting away with dirty politics and character assassination is simply not good enough.
For some reason, whenever I read comments on this debacle, the word “Salem” keeps popping through my head.
They are all right-wingers. Not a socalist amongst them. I couldn’t care less. It is all bullshit!
It’s a sad bloody day when a third party derives so much glee and pleasure from the victim of a sexual assault like Paula Bennett. She is just like a pig rolling in shit on this 9ne!
Even in the freak show that is the National Party that woman, who has a sordid dirty history of leaking privileged private information to smear her so called opponents, is by far the most repulsive of them all.
NZ politics needs her like a dose of the plague!
And yes, the me too thing, dear oh dear, formerly known in the 17th century as witch hunts, no proof required, just an accusation to see one burned alive at the stake!
Helen seems to forget we tossed her out 11 years ago because she ran a government that was trying to control our lives even in the little things like the size of our shower head and the light bulbs we used. Now she starting to pop up ever day with anew band wagon the latest is how we should vote about marajuana and trying to absolve Jacinda from the mess she is in.
Helen Clark and John Key should probably both be out of the public eye now. Both can be polarising and annoying.
I agree, why is Helen Clarke and Cullen always making comments on every issue that comes along? I’ll tell you why, cos they know there is no experience in the Labour Party. This government will go down in history as a complete fail.
Lance
Lance – the journos approach them for statements and they are not shy about providing them. I can name the bod Fairfax go to when they want anti-police criticism – and probably say it just as well as him too. And one other I can’t currently recall.
It is ambulance chasing masquerading as journalism because many in the media shape exactly what they want us to hear because they think that we are the sort of fools that they in fact are.
I am now more than totally fed up with the tabloid NZ herald.
I will never buy a NZ herald newspaper or read it online. I will never ‘invest’ money just to have online access to some of its ‘articles’ that one needs to ‘prepay’ for just to have ‘access’.
I have deliberately put the word herald in lower case in this posting as that is how bad the NZ herald has demeaned itself to due to its bizarre relationship with the NZ National Party.
The herald has become an extended mouthpiece of the National Party. It loses readers due to its behavioural problems especially over say the past week or so. It has lost all credibility and any sense of being note-worthy. It’s a shell of its former self.
I will never read any of the articles written by Mike Hosking, Katie Hawkesby, Audrey Young, Matthew Hooten, Barry Sloper(deliberate mis-spelling here)Heather Du Plessis Allan , John Roughan or any of the biased towards National so-called journalists employed by the herald but probably paid for by the NZ National Party.
Mike Hosking comes across as a Wannabe National MP but he is too volatile and unstable to be a politician of any structure or being. And so whilst he deems himself to be the ‘font of ALL knowledge on the planet’ he just looks like a sweaty faced(is he on illegal drugs are my thoughts when I have the misfortune of seeing him on say the telly?) idiot to me.
The events of the past week has shown to the lowly degree of venom and hatred National and of course their(the NZ National Party)supporting media organisations have towards this government that their(National and co’s)actions have resulted in me and probably many other NZers showing support for Jacinda and the government.
Lets us all remember there was hardly even a squeal from the mainstream NZ media whilst John Key was ‘too busy’ chasing ponytails on young human females.
Labour party president has resigned. Accused Labour staffer has resigned. What more do the media want. Nobody has even laid a complaint with Police, but 2 careers have been ruined. Nice one, media smear merchants. Guilty until proven innocent eh?
Mike Sabin: hushed up. Todd Barclay: covered up. JLR: no resignations. JK hair pulling: no resignations.
Double standards
JK continues to hush things up and destroy people along the way.
Adern just needs to go, never has to country been so politically toxic. Time for adults to take the wheel.
Like who?
Like Sad Mike.
The Hosk knows everything.
I assume Mike Hosking won’t be voting Labour ever again? 😉
Actually Shipley, Muldoon and most recently and appallingly John Key ran very toxic times.
I wonder whether the people of Christchurch and the attacks down there think like you.
Here is an interesting comparison especially in regards to the NZ herald articles of this week.
In one vein they(the herald)were busy having a go with, like I said earlier, venom and hatred towards Jacinda and the government.
And so whilst the herald was having a attack syndrome go at especially there was an article about the spoilt village brat Max Key. Talk about being so obviously two faced and naturally, for the NZ herald, hypocritical in one newspaper/tabloid.
Wasn’t Max Key involved or associated with the Roast Busters at one time in the past 8 years or so or has the NZ herald conveniently forgotten about that whilst they are attacking Jacinda? Or is that now clear proof how deep into the NZ National Party pocket the NZ herald has demeaned themselves to?
4 articles today in Herald today.
Mathew Hooten 2 opinions in 2 days:Flaky failure – Jacinda Ardern’s aimless leadership
Editorial: Getting Under Arderns Skin
Clare Tevett: Paula Bennett’s Take On Labour Scandal
Steve Braunias ( admittedly he takes the piss out of everyone)
Stuff:
Henry Cooke:This mess will follow Jacinda Ardern
Duncan Garner:Mud stinks, and now it’s sticking to the people at the top
The media truly want National back in power.
To quote John Le Carre…
“Yes, we’ve been cooking
for a long time,
with a great many ingredients
and a great many pots”
Yes Bert, this is a full-on offensive to undermine the credibility of Jacinda Ardern. Even Duncan Garner, the doyen of the right, was talking up her resignation only yesterday. The hyperbole was breaking the sound barrier by then.
The trouble is the smear campaign is the quite as quality as the old firm use to generate when it was operating out of Keys office, that he of course never knew a thing about.
As I said in this blog, running a media wide script explaining why they went to Bennett with all sorts of different people running that same line makes this lily look ever so gilded doesn’t it!
JustMe – Max Key was the guy who leaned out of his car to yell at cyclists, ” Real men ride women.”
I guess that’s not surprising from the son of a serial ponytail puller who yelled his head off in Parliament to the Labour Party to get some guts and to send other people’s kids off to Iraq – yelled so hard that even the Nat bloke sitting behind him looked scared. On camera.
Today in RNZ from Helen Morten, ex Nat staffer;
“There has been criticism about the role of the deputy leader of the opposition in this issue, but you cannot doubt the complainants’ decision to go to her. Only with her intervention has anything happened..”
This is a slight variation/s of what is doing the rounds in blogs and the media, the theme remains a constant however, Paula is not to blame, she was just trying to help in her own little way. This bullshit simple lil Paula explanations is verging on focus grouped. And who the fuck does that, to death, I wonder?
Hey Helen, I have huge doubts about the complainants motives! In the case of the 19 year old victim, she must report this to the APPROPRIATE organizations, if she hasn’t already until it is investigated properly. But for the rest, when I read scripted explanations like that from vastly different authors, even on TDB from the oh so reasonable David J Stone, well twice is terribly hard to explain this coincidence, multiple times it becomes a ham fisted stitch up from the dirty politics manual.
As always there was the police for the serious sexual assault described, in fact many other options to seek justice but they weren’t chosen, just Paula. She was all that was left, I promise, cue innocent expressions…
What fucking ever!
Xray… In her story reported on Spinoff the girl said they she did not go to the police because of the low success rate of getting a successful result making it not seem worth the embarrassment and humiliation. The offence is almost impossible to prove, there are never any witnesses and it becomes a matter of who the police choose to believe. It is not simply a matter of going to the police and getting the truth established. They have no means of establishing the truth. See this from the Guardian…Last year the CPS charged 2,822 defendants, compared with 3,621 in 2013-14, yet the total number of rapes reported has almost doubled since 2013-14. Last year saw police-recorded rape increase by 15% (to 41,186 offences) compared with the previous year, according to police recorded crime figures from the Home Office. It’s the same everywhere.
She took the action she did, going to the party organisation , to help her party fix a problem they claimed to want to fix. Not to get satisfaction for herself but to alert the leaders to a problem that if left un attended might cause serious problems for it in the future. When she realised that that was not going to happen she , with others went public . Again I suggest not for her own benefit but as the only way to get some sunlight onto the issue and hopefully eventually cure it. If the labour party had acted on the complaints and taken steps to fix the problem internally no one would ever have known about it.
D J S
DJS this is her side of the story, correct?
Have you heard the other side yet?
No bert have you? Except he does apparently deny it all. It’s always the way isn’t it! We never know who to believe. All you can do is reason why would she have gone to the party officials when they asked for people to come forward who had issues . Did she do it to attract attention to herself? Did she want to damage the party or support it? You have to find your own best reasoning but keep an open mind.
Actually nearly every girl or woman I have been close enough to to have such a conversation has a pretty similar account of their first sexual experience. They learn to be more careful in the future. I have gained the impression that some quite small number of men abuse an enormous number of young women.Just once. And we all get to share the blame for that along the lines of the roast
busters.
D J S
Thank you DJS for a more reasoned response.No I haven’t heard the other side yet that is exactly why I have an open mind and exactly why I raised it. There is also those that have been accused and have found to have been innocent. Sadly they live the rest of their lives with a tainted reputation due to a jilted lover laying false claims. This is why we need to be reasoned and not call for the heads of our state to be rolled. I have been the recipient of a female manager attempting to sexually abuse me, something I kept quiet, so please never ever think that gaining an impression is enough evidence.
Exactly. Somehow in this fiasco, this parliamentary staffers guilt, proven beyond a reasonable doubt is nothing more than a mere formality. Forget due process, actually, forget any process.
Let’s do away with courts and lawyers and just bring in the Kangaroos!
“She did not go to the police because of the low success rate of getting a successful result making it not seem worth the embarrassment and humiliation”
But she went to mouthy dirt rutting Paula Bennett to go full public with it instead Yep, not worth the embarrassment and humiliation going the police but it sure as shit was going to Paula!
The police “…have no means of establishing the truth”. Damn, yet they seem to prove an awful lot of crime in court including sexual assault of all kinds but hey DJS, if I take you for real, then let us stop wasting billions every year on the NZ Police and disband them! In fact, let’s take all sexual assault referrals to Paula Bennett for action instead!
I’m sorry but those explanations are so implausible and weak, its laughable.
Courts strictly forbid the public sitting in on court hearings when sexual assault victims speak, the entire process is one of privacy to ensure the victim is not re-victimised as much as our system allows. But given the avenue followed by this victim I could not think of a worse case of doing just that.
And were this ever to make it to court just imagine the victim explaining to the court that rather than going to the police, she went to a dirtbag MP like Bennett to go public with it to extract maximum public exposure for whatever reasons the defence cares to name and I can think of plenty. I would think in that case the chances of a successful prosecution now are and would be close to nil!
I don’t know why Key has that, but I agree jays.( well at least compared to Bridges)
‘But she went to mouthy dirt rutting Paula Bennett to go full public with it instead Yep, not worth the embarrassment and humiliation going the police but it sure as shit was going to Paula!”
exactly, if it looks like a rat and smells like a rat then it’s probably Paula.
I’m going to differ.
This will settle, and eventually the woke will fall silent. Why? Because they are not genuine in their concern even if some think they are. They are shallow and self serving and once their own virtue has been well signalled they will lose interest, plus it damages brand Jacinda and they don’t have another figurehead to win an election.
Case in point, read The Standard today where it’s discussed on open mike.
Negative discussion shut down to preserve the echo chamber, because men/rape culture! Lol.
The irony.
Round in circles we go until we all forget the rape culture is in labours head office!
The virtue must be conserved!At all costs!
Exactly the problem in the handling of the complaint!
This behavior at TS and in the prime ministers office perfectly maps the out of touch bubble of superiority that Mr Trotter described so well in his last effort.
It may very well be a disturbing development but let’s not infect The Daily Blog with the cancer of other blogs.
I wouldn’t call them cancer but they certainly are a self selected monoculture 🙂 A microcosm.
Clearly you have evidence of rape?
Clearly we shouldn’t take women’s accusations of sexual assault seriously eh Bert. Or just not this time?
You didn’t answer my question, not this time eh keepcalmcarryon. Once you’ve done so I’ll give you the courtesy of answering yours anytime.
Thanks bert. Clearly you are putting words in my mouth? I’ve accused no one of rape, I’m talking about “rape culture” as discussed by wokies.
ANYTHING except own your own bullshit eh.
Correct, own your own bullshit Keepcalmcarryon.
That’s rubbish in itself. A few people making slanderous/violent/trolling accusations and posting screeds of BS were given some time off from TS. Some RWNJ’s don’t seem able to keep up with the news that Jacinda has apologised and there have been 2 resignations and there’s a review underway, and keep recycling silly fictions.
Honestly no one gives a shit about your feelings. Perhaps you should go and pollute other online message boards with how tough you are on the Internet. Look around here. We are perfectly capable of having a normal conversation with all the dogma and ideology, thx.
I merely stated a few facts, not feelings or ideology. Chill out, weirdo
Tribal left or tribal right you all look half blind to me roblogic.
Personally think the ‘ordinary folks’ are pretty tired of the weekly headlines screaming that Jacinda should know every thing going on in parliament and personally intervene on every issue…
it’s dysfunctional parliament and media,
While they debate this for the next few weeks which could have been avoided by Labour having a functioning complaints procedure (and the man stood down while the allegations are investigated, while the women not having to go through hoops to get her complaint taken seriously and it is investigated straight away by somebody who is very respected and professional, not trial by media)…..
You know, practical, fair and results driven approach…
Not, what is sounds like, aka nobody doing anything, Chinese whispers, followed by big blow up and a scalp…. nowonder the country is turning to shit, if they can’t even do basic stuff in the nest of parliament and now it’s all about sensationalised headlines not actually the PM and MP’s running the country appropriately.
I am with you Xray 100%
Innocent until proven guilty must reign above all.
I don’t condone using the ‘George Soros’ Me Too hanging judge system any more.
George Soros uses people as bait to fund as he has a ‘clear agenda to over-throw any Government he doesn’t like.’
We don’t want to be used for his fetish.
When you get sexually assaulted you go directly to the Police – just like you do for every other crime. You don’t go to the media or anyone else at all, unless you don’t get justice.
We can’t win by letting the scandalmongering distract us from the serious problems we need government to address; climate change, species extinction, suicide, child abuse, mental health, homelessness, exploitation of workers etc etc etc. The spindoctors opposed to the NatACT government couldn’t land a blow when they had video of its PM sexually harassing women and girls on a regular basis with his hair-fondling habit. The Nats will always win if the competition is mudwrestling in the gutter, dirty politics is their strong suit. If the left want to win, we need to play to our strenths not theirs; coming up with policy that might actually solve problems, rather than just spinning them. Policy, policy, policy!
Well said.
I am trying to keep an open mind. However I’m completely at a loss as to why anyone who feels they have been the victim of an offence/crime would go to Paula Bennett, instead of using the legal channels available to get assistance.
Both the accused and the accuser(s) have to provide strong evidence to support their case(s) in any alleged offence or criminal activity. So the same has to apply here and it can’t be done unless the issue(s) go through the correct police and justice systems, no matter how hard that may be.
Jacinda Who? Who cares?
And who are the media and who owns the media and whose best interest does the media care about, not the average poor hard working kiwi. National will play the fiddle as long as it can lets wait for the next polls and see if soimon has manged to lift out of 5% yet
Re the next polls Michelle. Am I such an old cynic, that I suspect the next CB poll just might be loosely based around this issue, to achieve the desired effect of raising the numbers for National and Simon Bridges?
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