UPDATE: Crypto-Fascists 1 New Zealand 0

By
Martyn Bradbury
-
115
26

It always seemed like a publicity stunt rather than a real tour, and it’s finally occurred, Southern & Molyneux have confirmed they aren’t touring NZ…

Right-wing speakers Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux cancel NZ trip
Right-wing speakers Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux, from Canada, who planned on visiting Auckland next week, have cancelled their trip.

…sadly however, the damage has been done.

By responding as hysterically as we have, more people know about these crypto-fascsists and they look at the visceral response by some on the activist Left to stamp out their attempt at speaking as feral and hateful. Woke Twitter has denounced anyone supporting free speech as a Nazi and social media has imploded with thousand fights and arguments which have all ended acrimoniously.

We got trolled by two right wing Trolls and the very foundations of our liberal progressive democracy shuddered.

- Sponsor Promotion -

All we managed to do was turn on each other in viciousness while providing them with a marketing win.

 

The economic shockwaves of the next global financial meltdown feeds the far right narrative, let’s hope we have our shit together enough to be in a position to respond with a lot more intelligence than we did this time around.

UPDATE: Fuck – they are coming!

115 COMMENTS

  1. The photos of them with sellotape on their faces are pathetic… Stitch every orifice up with baling twine or fishing line… And is Don Brash dead yet? The whole debate has left me shitty, cos so many voices are lost down wells, and none of them coalition cunts cared about them…

  2. The photos of them with sellotape on their faces are pathetic… Stitch every orifice up with baling twine or fishing line… And is Don Brash dead yet? The whole debate has left me shitty, cos so many voices are lost down wells, and none of them coalition cunts cared about them…

  3. The photos of them with sellotape on their faces are pathetic… Stitch every orifice up with baling twine or fishing line… And is Don Brash dead yet? The whole debate has left me shitty, cos so many voices are lost down wells, and none of them coalition cunts cared about them…

  5. Make no mistake – the left lost that debate, badly.

    A few home truths for the regressive left:

    The regressive left are preachers of ‘tolerance’ – a word meaning the polar opposite to what they think it does.
    The regressive left are not kinder, more empathetic people, but smugly supercilious, hubris-riddled pretenders to virtues they simply don’t possess.
    The regressive left live in an ideological bubble, patting themselves on the back and assuming the praise of others.
    In crude parlance, they hate anyone who queries their doctrinaire worldview.
    They suffer from a kind of wilful autism, dominated by hostile emotion, unreachable by reason and devoid of wisdom.
    Unlike normally functioning, sentient beings, they cannot partake in civil debate, or agree to disagree.
    To question their dogma is not just to be wrong, but to be declared an enemy, to be defeated and destroyed.
    They assume the full control of truth, with their constructed narratives of oppressors and oppressed.
    They would rather humiliate an opponent publicly for their wrongthink than actually win a debate.

    The true, universalist, economic left is doomed if it fails to distance itself from the regressive left.

        • Some may recognise this as “sea blindness.” Others may recognise this as chaos. No one won but we did lose because no one was competing against any one but I suspect that such a simple answer is just not feasible for you. After skim reading a few free speech blogs, comments and a quick Google search it’s obvious that there was a total and sudden loss of coordination, efficiency and discipline, all resulting in the loss of immigration control, internal incompetence in otherwise simple engagements. This speaks to a lack of internal dialogue among kiwis and focuses on a single point of failure in New Zealand at large. For me this is the loss of Jacinda’s star dust and the boost it provides to moral, stamina and overall prowess while also reducing the effectiveness of commercial media. A dangerous phenomenon indeed.

          We must reduce the dependence on Jacinda’s star dust and enhance conversations making individuals more resilient to foreign influences.

          • This mess will do me just fine. Good people are ill prepared for a bit of rough housing. Even experienced campaigners are not used to clean talkers using rough housing to continue on an attack.

            Even though he knows it already, Andy will continue talking in tongues.

            The level of political discourse is Beyoncé. Say my name say my name, when no one is around you say baby I love you baby say my name.

    • I agree. I have been surprised by the amount of stupid name calling and rabid vitriol from both far left and right over this. They want to stamp each other out like vermin, when really they need each other to justify their existence. Society needs a fair balance of views each of which should be challenged from time to time, to avoid smugness, complacency or autocracy.

    • The question of IQ is really interesting because we talk about intelligence as if we know what it is’ but we don’t because it expresses itself in so many different ways ways and manifestations. So this big controversy now between pro and anti free speech claiming victory some people are not willing to look at something if it shows unfavourably on there side. Neither camp don’t won’t to look, they’ll deny. And it’s a weird play at generating cultural norms. It’s also made normal people much more inclined to violence and epigenetic means your grandchildren will be more likely to be racial nationalists.

      Lauren Southern and Stephan Molyneux has been manipulative and deceptive on a level about the abilities of the property owning middle class fool.

      Jokes on you.

    • @ BULLY BEEF AND CHIPS…+100 to that! …well said!

      …I expect the two Canadians are either running for their lives towards the Arctic Circle or laughing like hell at the precious little snowflakes in New Zealand who can not stand robust debate…pathetic!…I always considered myself left but now I really would not want to associate with many of these morons….I actually think the real grassroots left has had its so-called left leaders subverted by the likes of Soros and Albright and Clinton…in other words they have been betrayed by a pseudo left leadership that calls itself ‘anti-fascist’ as if it were some kind of badge and must be defended with jackboots…and they tell everyone else to shut up , or they will be labelled ‘fascist’…they need to look in the mirror because they are the scary ones!

    • It’s easy to deride identity politics and social justice if you’re a privileged white male. Easy put downs prop up that privilege. Tell us your views on social housing Nitrium? Free education? Gender equality? If you dismiss those as “social justice”, “identity politics” and “virtue signalling”, you might as well join the National party.

  9. I disagree, … when we consider when Nationals John Key was in power, we saw corruption that was sanctified by parliamentary privileges and news media on a scale never before seen in this country outside of the treason’s of the Douglas, Shipley , Richardson years.

    We had Key night after night telling us what the ‘average Kiwi cared about’, the same calling Glen Greenwald and Nicky Hagar ‘conspiracy theorists’, – when it literally had to be dragged out of Key to learn anything about the Cortex and XKEYSCORE programs …

    It took a meeting at the Town Hall with satellite coverage of Snowden – when we should have bloody well of heard about it first hand from Key himself right from the beginning !

    That’s what you get when you romance the extreme far right , – lies, lies and more lies !

    There was nothing good that was ever going to come from having those two here. Nothing. Even academic debate would have failed in stopping to light the flame of and water the seed among those so predisposed.

    They said the same about Hitler in his rise to power.

    Someone on The Standard compared Michael Savage and Holland and the measures they took to push through conditions that would eventually come into NZ law… I pointed out that although most were foreign born , there was a world of difference in their goals…

    ——————————-

    … ‘ The examples you gave above all had one thing in common : they all saw an eventual better future for working people and improved Health and Safety , wages and conditions.

    In no way whatsoever could you compare that with political shitstirrers who obliquely encourage tacit racism by encouraging that in foreign country’s that are not so directly tied up with the wars in the Middle East as the UK, USA and by close proximity even Canada ( also a large nation in the 5 eyes agreement).

    We do not have radicalism in this country where people die from suicide bombings and the like because partly, – we are relatively isolated , our presence in the Middle East is limited, and we have a more inclusive society where divisiveness is not encouraged.

    Why do so many from the 5 eyes partner nations seek NZ as a bolt hole?

    Because of the preceding paragraphs very reasons.

    So WHY WOULD WE want someone coming over here from another country , another hemisphere even , – and stirring up their bullshit here?

    Do we have no say? Of course we do.

    And our free speech was to disapprove of what they were trying to achieve here in our country..

    And for very sound reasons as events overseas have proven ‘ …

    ——————————-

    I don’t see Southern and her mate as having achieved anything – esp with regards that of a successful troll. Our freedom of speech was to disapprove and reject their message loud and clear. And I make that clear building on the same flawed arguments offered by others by saying this ( The Standard ) :

    ——————————-

    … ‘ One had a positive reason for activism citing Savage , Holland and the like , – and which became law in NZ.

    Southern by contrast , was wanting to incite in a very negative sort of way and inflame a social situation that is in no way comparable to the USA and NZ.

    As for the rest about Nazism , Fascists and Brownshirts, – fair cop.

    But those same armchair ‘ leftists’ you criticize haven’t had to put a brick in a sock and take it to a rally precisely because of the values – and laws – we have in this country.

    Which begs the question – should we really be encouraging what could develop into a potentially dangerous situation where people get hurt all because of an imported radical ? , – a radical whose message bears little in common with the reality’s of NZ society ? And don’t worry – plenty of people took a long baton in the head during the 1981 Springbok Tour. So the spirit of those early pioneers for social equity and justice still live on today ‘ …

    ——————————-

    We are still a small island nation. I admire some of the Polynesian cultures ways of reaching consensus regards whats acceptable and whats not. Our freedom of speech was to reject Southern and her mates destructive message for the benefit of our way of life.

    I believe our freedom of speech was to cast a resounding disapproval and NO to them. And I also believe there are many areas ( hate speech)
    that is manipulated subtlety, – and deliberately so. Esp by those with a negative bandwagon to push. Such as the extreme far right wing.

    An example was the treason’s committed by Douglas and his followers, – just look at the 34 year long destruction that was caused by abusing ‘freedom of speech’ , ‘parliamentary privilege’ and manipulating the words ‘democratic freedoms’.

    And though I am an absolute 100 % staunch Chris Trotter fan , – I notice that not even he nor his fellow travelers could staunch the tidal wave of treason unleashed by allowing Douglas and Co free reign through the guise of falsely citing ‘ democracy’. No matter what cerebral, intellectual or academic reasoning were ever applied to it.

    Even large scale street protests and industrial action failed. That was how ruthless these types were / are. They were /are the fascists. Dressed up in democracy. And having used our democracy to dismantle it.

    Because that’s what fascists do.

    Southern , – and the people who back her, ( and they are wealthy and many ) – have no regard for intellectual engagement barring furtherance of their cause , let alone promoting peace and good will in the country’s where they spread their toxic agenda.

    We have suffered enough as it is from these Johnny – come – lately minor prophets who arrive here and appear as if they have something new to add. They don’t. They are destructive. They have an agenda. And that agenda is not for the goodwill or peace in our nation.

    And there are times when to preserve the peace and goodwill , – certain cancerous ideology’s must be excluded.

  10. Progressive-Leftists 1 Hate Speech Coalition 0

    Speaking from his gut and life experience, Te Reo Putake said it;

    “There’s No Such Thing as Free Speech”

    For those of a more legal bent, Villainesse makes the same point, ‘there is no such thing as free speech in an unequal society’.

    Our post British Imperialist majority white, capitalist settler society has specifically designed it that way.

    “Free speech is designed to protect privilege”
    Villainesse – July 19, 2018

    We need to talk about free speech. More specifically, who it protects and who it doesn’t. Human rights are a good thing, and free speech is incredibly important within our society. But there’s an inequality at the heart of how the right applies in practice. Legal scholars have been saying this for a long time, however the clear contradiction is evident without a law degree….

    [Take a bow here TRP]

    …..Because rights were developed to protect against things like racism, right? Nope. Like a lot of our laws, they were developed to protect those who could afford the cost of going to court. Free speech in particular has a tumultuous history, most of which involves protecting privileged groups and minimising harms to oppressed groups.

    Speech that I personally believe is discriminatory – like Nisbet’s cartoons, for example – is not ‘bad enough’ to justify a limit on the right. Despite the fact that discrimination could incite racism, which could harm deeply and pervasively. But when a wealthy person has had something slightly untrue said about them, defamation law kicks in and limits free speech to the point that the media can be sued millions for publication.

    Free speech is a near-absolute right except for when a rich guy’s reputation is damaged…..

    When rights don’t apply equally, as is the case with free speech, we can and should question them. The fact that someone on a platform of privilege, with money behind them, can punch down and use free speech to disadvantage and insult oppressed groups, but people like Renae Maihi risk a lawsuit if they speak out, is wrong. New Zealand needs to think deeply about what kind of speech we protect and why.

    • I love how TRP is the one crying. When he was banned from the standard for breaching their speech rights he came to blog here.

      When the left are seriously claiming free speech protects privilege, we have finally become a pus pit of farce.

      • Congratulations on opening a cesspit with your fetish for “free speech”, Bomber. Every alt-right crank, conspiracy theorist, and troll will be attracted to The Daily Blog like flies to a steaming pile of… I think you get the metaphor.

        When free speech is weaponised to become a cudgel against minorities, women, transpeople, or anyone else vaguely different to the white hetero normative majority, then you’re complicit in that neo-fascist agenda of weaponisation. Free speech is not absolute, you should know that. Thus far I’m not seeing much benefit from your new free speech regime except a platform for toxic hate venom against certain people. But if you’re white, hetero, and preferably male, you can rest easy. The neo-fascist scumbags aren’t after you. Not yet, anyway.

        • Your attempt to redefine free speech racism to dismiss claims of it as nothing but white nationalists (very horrible types of people, no different than saying “Maori people are all Nobel savages” or that “all women are sluts”) is nothing more than hate-fueled desire to engage in hate speech while maintaining the illusion of the moral high-ground.

          So nicely illustrating that intersectionality is an ideology of hatred.

          You have more in common with the Alt-Right than I ever will, and I still will defend your right to spew your hate even as I call you out on it.

          If we’re going to compare “Oppression Points” to address your “persecution envy” nonsense, I’m maori of Tuhoe decent left wing communist in a concrete jungle with major depression living in a big city in bang bang catch an abo nigger by the toe country under the poverty line.

          So yes I know what it’s like to be the victim of Hate Speech, specially anti male sentiments, and I still am a free speech supporter.

        • The neo-fascist scumbags aren’t after you. Not yet, anyway.

          Perhaps because you haven’t set up the environment where that’s possible.

          …yet.

          What do you become when you use fascism’s favourite tools to oppose those you disagree with?

      • Kia ora Martyn, Maybe I’m thick, but I can’t understand the criticism of TRP that you made:

        “When he was banned from the standard for breaching their speech rights he came to blog here.”

        So what?

        Being on the receiving end of censorship, surely would qualify TRP to be one of the best ones to comment on it.

        I cannot see how your criticism of TRP has relevance to his tenet that “There’s No Such Thing as Free Speech”. Just because, he has personal experience that there isn’t.

  11. I thought we are one people Brash and his lot said we are all one people yet they advocate for visitors to come here and crap on us. (Maori)
    Now why should we and other people that have come here for a better life tolerate such rude and downright nasty visitors coming here to our country and spraying their poison and being divisive. These are not the type of visitors we want to come here and we should not being encouraging these types of people.
    When we go to other countries we have to respect their culture and laws otherwise we may end up in prison or worse. It is not always about the left and right why do people always have to make it that.

    • Would Brash object if David Urvine was to come hear to speak and present his evidence for open minded consideration and was refused.

      Me thinks not.

      Brash has an agenda and his objection is but a tool for that.

      • Māoridom in particular have been lobbying the crown just to follow there own rules. They can’t even follow half of there own rules and when social justice warriors say well let’s not follow the other it is no Māori never achieve middle class status because we are always surrounded by a constellation of poorer members of society in desperate need. Do you know what I’m talking about John my friend. Just play your position.

        • Sam you speak of complex considerations.

          The bigger picture in NZ is one of many backward political steps since the 1930s and we appear to have little common understanding of a way forward.

          Class warfare and division is apparent and loss of cohesion among the labour force is a result of attack on anything that may look like restricting corporate investor profit. Trickle down is still argued indirectly.

          We know and see trickle up now a raging torrent.

          The Govt and local councils used to be employers of many performing service efficiently for all of NZ. Yes efficiently and much more frugally that the mass of corporate “contractors” and their paid buddies in govt and local body administration administration tailoring opportunities for them. We have been taken over.

          Both Maori and Tau iwi suffer under the shift of wealth and opportunity and the loss of hope is markedly apparent and increasingly so.

          Division and blame are hopeless strategies.

          We need a will to forgo them both and unite acting against the real criminals who corrupt govts at all levels to further the gains of a small elite class of “investors”, and corporate bankers.

  12. It’s not about responding with intelligence it’s about recognising that our own emotional issues are interfering with our ability to stay calm while we have this debate.

    It’s about being honest enough with ourselves to admit that while we aren’t prejudiced in the usual way we do tend to project a lot of hate toward people we don’t approve of.

    Those who use the label ‘left’ like to think they are intelligent – and they usually are by conventional definitions but I think we need to work on our emotional intellgience

  13. Bugga i was looking forwards to a brick in the sock special welcome for those clowns, you fukkers moaned too much and spoiled all my fun

  14. I was premature yesterday, it is time for the dozen or so leftists left in Auckland to organise and PROTEST:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/105780606/canadian-rightwing-speakers-auckland-tour-is-on-with-a-new-venue

    Find out the venue, I suggest, if you can, that is those that can think that far, and organise a picket of sorts, if you can, which I am not so sure about, as leaders of the left like John Minto left for Christchurch and Mike Treen is on a boat to Gaza.

    Wonder what will happen, maybe the left that is left in Auckland will settle for an online chat debate, not more, what a JOKE this country is.

      • “Protest what, exactly? The fact that some people have opinions you don’t like? Good luck with that.”

        And here we go. Now you’re deriding someone elses’ right to exercise THEIR FREE SPEECH by protest? So much for alt-right free speech warriors. Its only ok when they do it. We’re evidently not allowed to make our views known. Well, screw that, I’ll be there, and you can go get fucked Milt.

      • Freedom of expression, that is what I mean, and I was trying to speak for those ‘leftists’ who are so worked up about these two ‘speakers’, who I personally have a dim view of, and do not necessarily consider to be ‘crypto fascists’, just rather opportunistic shit stirrers.

        If people here are in enough numbers not happy with something, they have the right to protest, but do they bother, that is another question?

      • “Are these people really that scary ?

        ‘Stefan Molyneux & Lauren Southern On Sky News About White Genocide And Race & IQ’”

        Theyre not scary only if youre in bed with their fascist politics, Mr Buzzard. Care to tell us where you stand on racial purity?

        • Mr Buzzard….well that is maybe a sexist assumption in itself ?…dont you think?( but I wont hold it against you)

          …and I dont think anyone is racially pure, even you…(do you?)

          …some people think they are ‘Gods Chosen’ or the Master Race….but I dont believe that either…(nor do I think that anyone is infallibly right all the time…this is why we must debate and why there must be freedom of speech)

          …also I am happy to debate the subjects brought up by Stefan Molyneux & Lauren Southern….and I do

  16. It was unutterably stupid to allow Phil Goff and Auckland City Council to use their monopoly control on meeting spaces to prevent speech they thought was offensive.

    Whether you agree with the opinions of those two Alt-Right speakers or not (and I do not agree with them), it should only take a handful of brain cells to realise that a very bad precedent has been set here.

    If we allow a Left-leaning mayor to shut down “offensive” opinions now, then what is to stop a Right-leaning mayor from shutting down liberal opinions in future?

    This is what happens when you claim that Free Speech is not a universal right, except when *we* do it.

    We are seeing the rise of a dangerous strain of ignorance that like it or not, will have dire consequences for all of us. Anti-Free Speech campaigners, like Anti-Vaxxers, are going to burn our house down around us.

    If a group can’t muster enough intellectual horsepower to deal with their ideological opponents without shutting them down, or no-platforming them, then perhaps it is their ideologies which are the problem.

    • I almost never do this, but I’m posting an addendum to my previous post.

      From now on, I’ve decided I’m going to refer to these Anti-Free Speech people as

      “Anti-Sprexxers”

      Because I would like to make it clear that I believe it is the same perverse combination of ignorance and arrogance that drives Anti-Free Speech “activists” and Anti-Vaxxers.

      “Sprechen” is the German word for speech, to speak. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to contemplate why I chose a German word to describe this particular form of Totalitarianism.

  18. Nobody & others still whining on about free speech. So naive. When you’re at a rally in a public place and there are a few nominated speakers but no open mike, where’s the free speech? The organisers don’t want to bore people or get media coverage from maverick speakers who associate them with a contrary opinion – a bad look. How many of you protest then? But you earnestly defend the rights of those who want to stamp/drown on the rights/the lives of others.

    • Both sides are claiming defeat here Jenny, and I’m not comfortable with young people being condemned for a lack of resilience when they appear to be doing what young people have always done, right or wrong, and always will as long as we have reasonably healthy societies.

      If, as it appears, UK universities offer an effective counter-balance to market-forces philosophy, they are probably in a better position than we are here. And as many have commented here, the current free speech debate re free speech has been pretty abysmal – but at least it’s been happening.

      Historian P’s comment re ‘shouting down opponents… an impediment to the creation of a “new society” ‘, may never be better illustrated than by John Key shouting like a sozzled washerwoman in Parliament to achieve zilch, and English, before he took off, vowing to be obstructive.

  20. It is clear that those who are incapable of engaging in an intelligent debate and then accepting the judgement of the public , will then have recourse to shouting down their opponents/and or violence.It speaks volumes of their ability to communicate their ideas.These people are an impediment to the creation of the “new society”

    • “These people are an impediment to the creation of the “new society””

      Eh?? What “new society”? What are you talking about Pete?

  22. The rise of the Far Right

    “….highlighting the danger of racist rhetoric and hateful ideas.”
    Johnthon Greenblatt – January 17, 2018

    Although the leaders of the white-supremacist alt-right insist their movement is nonviolent, racist rhetoric and hateful ideas can inspire violence if taken to their logical conclusion…..

    Two deadly shootings at the end of 2017 reinforced how the well-worn path from hate speech to action leads certain individuals to resort to lethal violence…..

    While it is impossible to draw a direct line of causation between these brutal acts and the many public displays of white supremacy that took place around the country in 2017, it’s critical not to underestimate the effect of an increasingly visible alt-right and white-supremacist community on people who are already predisposed to racism….

    1/ If is best to fight when the going is easy losses are slight and victory is assured.

    If you don’t resist then;

    2/ You will have to fight when the fighting is hard and your victory is not guaranteed.

    If you don’t resist then;

    3/ You will have to fight when the going is impossible your losses are unbearable and your defeat is certain.

    Because it is better to die fighting, than to die surrendering.

    So at what stage do you think you should start opposing these fascists Martyn? 1, 2, or 3?

Comments are closed.