It’s not about Lorde being a ‘bigot’ – it’s about the brutal, violent & ongoing 50 year occupation of the Palestinian people!

By   /   January 2, 2018  /   104 Comments

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…the reason Israel is responding so viciously and with such vileness towards Lorde is because they are  terrified that their arts & culture facade used to gloss over their human rights atrocities will be forever fractured by Lorde’s stance to boycott them.

If only the Israeli’s put as much effort into actual peace with the Palestinians as they do denouncing Lorde – we could have solved this whole mess decades ago!

The paranoid and delusional attacks on Lorde by Israel show the desperation and fear they feel by her courageous stand.

Israeli apologists have attacked her in a ridiculously over the top way in an advert in the Washington Post…

…firstly, while Russia certainly is a human rights abuser, they are not occupying and brutally repressing a people through a cultural genocide that has lasted 50 years! Attempting to compare Russia’s authoritarian regime with a human rights atrocity that has lasted 5 decades is a false equivalence that only the truly desperate would attempt.

Israel is screaming bigot and anti-semite to distract from this reality…

…the reason Israel is responding so viciously and with such vileness towards Lorde is because they are  terrified that their arts & culture facade used to gloss over their human rights atrocities will be forever fractured by Lorde’s stance to boycott them.

As Gideon Levy noted in his lecture in NZ early last month, most Israeli’s are in total denial over the atrocity their occupation is creating and it is only by forcing them to confront that reality can any hope for the Palestinian people be established.

We force them to confront that by boycotting Israel economically, culturally, artistically and sporting wise.

If we want to stand with Lorde it means intensifying the BDS, not merely acknowledging her courage and we do that by immediately looking at restricting IDF (Israeli Defenced Force) members from holidaying in NZ and we ask WOMAD to stop an Israeli artist from Israel’s propaganda arm from playing here.

People of conscience can no longer tolerate the hideous oppression Israel is carrying out and until Israel is genuine about peace we must universally turn our back on them.

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104 Comments

  1. Nitrium Nitrium says:

    Well said. We should actually do the same with China and Saudi Arabia who both have an equally appalling human rights record, not to mention Tibet and Yemen, respectively. Except that would probably shoot us in the foot a lot more than them. Still wouldn’t it be nice to take a moral stand on this stuff without consequence.

    • In case anyone thinks I’m letting Russia off-the-hook whilst Lorde defies the Israeli propaganda machine: https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/a-fta-deal-with-russia-thats-a-big-nyet-comrade-key/

      • Historian Pete says:

        I am puzzled Frank how one minute you oppose Zionism, and the next minute you refer to posts from the pro-zionist Guardian and the Neo-con pro-Zionist Washington Post – you know-the one that the CIA has a 10% share in, when you are into a Russia-phobic bent.All U.S. MSM are anti-Russia to a hysterical degree.The U.S. is losing its world hegemony primarily because of Russian policy.You need to cite reputable independent sources ,of which there are quite a few,instead of enemies that have a vested interest in anti-Russian rhetoric!!

        • As I have consistently explained to others (Gosman, etc), I use a variety of sources.

          • Cassie says:

            YES but , FRANK, at some point you need to distill the Truth, using Discernment.

            Means : Doing what MOST people DON’T do
            IE reading widely from many sources that be OPPOSITE to widely held /”popular beliefs”)

            …THEN you come to your own INDEPENDENT conclusions, AFTER carefully evaluating & comparing. WITHOUT prejudice.

  2. Historian Pete says:

    Quite so.The U.S. population generally are absolutely indoctrinated to accept the Zionist narrative.Every MSM is in lockstep with a pervasive brainwashing of the population.In this context Lorde’s stand is courageous.The full force of the Jewish lobby is going to be turned upon her. Therefore I suggest that those who claim to be progressives who have questioned her motives desist, and instead overwhelmingly support her in all respects. I certainly do !!

  3. john says:

    Israel is 69 years old it is a 20th century colonial project that was used by the British for its geographical-positioning (Suez Canal) and the Oil in surrounding countries was crucial. Wahhabism Saudi Arabia (Hijaz)was also supported and used by the British after WW1 firstly to help defeat the Ottoman empire and also for the amount of oil that it possessed with experts confirming this fact. Colonialism,Zionism,Wahhabism are related

    • Andy says:

      Israel is 69 years old? Do you also believe that the Earth is 6000 years old?

      • Sam Sam says:

        Don’t mind Andy. He just doesn’t like the fact people no longer give Isreal a free pass to oppress Palestinians.

      • john says:

        What a stupid reply!! Firstly tell me where in history or historical facts that the state of Israel existed before 1948??? And please don’t quote something out of the bible that isn’t based on historical facts because the bible is full of “MYTHS” like the earth was created in 7 days scenario.

        • Andy says:

          I see, so you deny the whole of Biblical text, including the Book of Esther that doesn’t even mention God once.

          The Bible has around 850 references to Jerusalem. The Qur’an has zero references to Jerusalem, yet people like you claim that the “Palestinian People” are the “indigenous people of “Palestine”, a place that has never exited as a sovereign state.

          • Hendie says:

            It’s rather ignorant to assume that all palestinians are Muslims. They most certainly aren’t. The Israelis don’t care about their religion they only care about clearing them out of the way so they can occupy their lands.

            • Andy says:

              I’m not assuming that all Palestinians are Muslims. However, all terrorist organisations that support the “Palestinian Cause” are Islamic

              The PA is supposedly run according to Islamic Law. Bethlehem is a majority Muslim town now, and the small percentage of Christians there live as dhimmi

  4. dave brown says:

    It seems that Lorde has educated herself about the Zionist state, and now supports BDS, good on her.
    Perhaps she needs to educate herself about the Syrian fascist state that is killing its own people.
    I don’t know her position on Syria but it would be likely to be consistent with those who recognise oppression when they see it whether in the form of Zionism or the Assad regime.
    Unlike the cynical Zionists who paint Assad black in order to paint themselves white.
    The difference is that the Zionist state is an imposter that only exists because it occupies Palestine.
    No state can be free when it occupies another.
    For that reason BDS is a useful tactic to expose this fact, rather than performing in Israel to convey the same message.
    In the case of Syria, would boycotting all those countries such as the US, EU, and Russia that are intervening in the Syrian civil war to smash the popular revolution, achieve anything?
    No. Unless she is banned or otherwise put in danger.
    Far better to visit these countries and use her music to reach all those who are opposed to their regime’s military invasions and occupations of Syria.
    The freedom of Palestine and Syria cannot be won without the active support of those who living the the imperialist powers to stop their own military being used to smash these liberation struggles.

    • David Stone says:

      You need to look deeper into the Syrian situation David. We are being fed a constant stream of propaganda . The “uprising” is mostly from outside the country and among Syrians Assad is about the most popular president in the world . Even more than Putin in within Russia. A genuine democratically organised and monitored election which hopefully will happen in the next 12 months will demonstrate the legitimacy of the opposition.
      D J S

    • Historian Pete says:

      I see Dave you are still shoe-horning the Syrian situation into your bizarre Trotsky/Leninist ideology , where the facts have to be manipulated to suit your prognosis .No matter that all the independent investigative reporters don’t agree with you.You are going to find that your”He’s killing his own people” nonsense about Assad,your admiration for the White Helmets who were formed and financed by the U.K. Secret Service, your favourite propaganda source the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights[grocer shop in Coventry U.K-], are going to be an escalating embarrassment to your credibility.

      • simonm says:

        I’m afraid you’re wrong Pete. That “Syrian Observatory for Human Rights” bloke actually owns a clothes shop, not a grocery store.

      • dave brown says:

        I don’t read the Western press on what is happening in Syria.
        Most are embedded in Assad’s regime and like Fisk and Hersh parrot his lies.
        Since 2011 I have been watching video’s like this one produced by Syrians who participated in the revolution many paying with their lives in Assad jails such as the women in the documentary.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC87omEQn80&feature=share

        • Historian Pete says:

          I see.So, on the one side we have world famous investigative authors/journalists Seymour Hersh and Robert Fisk. And on the other we have Marxist blogger Dave Brown,world famous in Te Atatu!This is going to be a tough one to judge. I may have to get back to you!!!

          • dave brown says:

            I don’t live in Te Atatu Pete. You should check it out with the SIS. And what has this to do with me? I am posting what the Syrians fighting a revolution against a fascist regime are saying. One does not have to be a Marxist to recognise the truth of genocide. If you choose to go with embedded liars like Fisk and Hersh who channel Assad’s propaganda that’s your politics – entitled, orientalist, conspiracist, and nothing to do with ‘progressive’.

            • Historian Pete says:

              I never said that you live in Te Atatu Dave.I said that you are world famous there. That is because I know that there are quite a few comrades living there!The reports of Syrians flocking back to resettle their homeland now that your “revolutionary workers” have been expelled is no doubt another fiction that does not fit into your bizarre Leninist/Trotskyist narrative!

              • The reports of Syrians flocking back to resettle their homeland now that your “revolutionary workers” have been expelled is no doubt another fiction that does not fit into your bizarre Leninist/Trotskyist narrative!

                I see no evidence of that, Pete. Would you care to offer us citations to back that up?

                Latest reports of hospitals being bombed (ref: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42591334 ) are not exactly conducive to encouraging anyone to return to a warzone.

                On top of which, there are unresolved problems surrounding Assad’s gross human rights violations such as Amnesty International’s report on Saydnayah Prison (ref: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2016/08/syria-torture-prisons/ ) and your premise becomes problematic from that score as well.

                • Historian Pete says:

                  Here you are Frank, although the technology may be beyond you: Type in “syrian refugees return to homes in Syria”‘
                  Here we have from the BBC [your favourite mainstream media even]
                  “500,000 Syria refugees return home.” and details.
                  From the U.N.:”450,000 Syrian refugees return home [UNHCR]”
                  Reuters:”Syrian refugees head home on foot from Turkey for Eid holiday.”
                  Sputnik News: “Some 100,00-refugees to return home from Turkey.”
                  Admittedly considerable danger was incurred by me in collecting these reports, but hey! That is what being an serious investigative Historian is all about!!!

        • Hendie says:

          I got up to the point where one woman was rescued by the FSA. If you’re not aware FSA is Al Qaeda

      • Does it matter if he runs a grocery store or clothing store or whatever?

        My sole concern would be how accurate his information is. Anything else is a distraction (and sly dig?).

        Amnesty International doesn’t run a grocery/clothing store and they have documented an execution facility run by Assad’s regime:

        A chilling new Amnesty International report published today has exposed the “cold-blooded killing of thousands of defenceless prisoners” in a Syrian government jail where an estimated 13,000 people have been hanged in the past five years, and where mass hangings of up to 50 people at a time occur every week, sometimes twice a week.

        The mass hangings have taken place at Saydnaya military prison near Damascus between 2011 and 2015 – and there are clear indications that the mass hangings are ongoing.

        Most of those hanged were civilians believed to have been opposed to the government, with the killings taking place in great secrecy in the middle of the night. The executions take place after one- or two-minute lawyer-less “trials” using “confessions” extracted through torture.

        Survivors of Saydnaya have also provided spine-chilling and shocking testimonies about life inside the prison. They evoke a world carefully designed to humiliate, degrade, sicken, starve and ultimately kill those trapped inside. These harrowing accounts (see below) have led Amnesty to conclude that the suffering and appalling conditions at Saydnaya have been deliberately inflicted on detainees as a policy of “extermination”.

        […]

        These practices, which amount to war crimes and crimes against humanity, are authorised at the highest levels of the Syrian government.

        ref: https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/syria-13000-secretly-hanged-saydnaya-military-prison-shocking-new-report

        Support for Assad’s regime appears to be misguided, to put it politely.

        • simonm says:

          Twas a joke. I was making the point that everything else H. Pete said is true. The ‘White Helmets’ are jihadi-allied Sunnis founded by this bloke:

          http://www.mintpressnews.com/james-le-mesurier-british-ex-military-mercenary-founded-white-helmets/230320/

          I don’t think it’s controversial to state that British secret-service agents are much more involved in the “regime-change” business than they are in the human-rights or rescue business.

          No-one would claim Assad is a saint, but the narrative that he’s a baby-eating Devil oppressing the ‘righteous’ and gentle Sunni “freedom fighters” in Syria is complete bollocks.

          • Unfortunately, if I recall correctly, RT News did feature something about the office of “Syrian Observatory for Human Rights” being above a shop of some description. Hence why I took it seriously.

            I’d need to find the link, to get the full story…

            • simonm says:

              RT isn’t always the most reliable source on issues in which Russia has an interest, but in this case it’s totally correct. From Wikipedia:

              “The organisation (Syrian Observatory for Human Rights) is run by Rami Abdulrahman (sometimes referred to as Rami Abdul Rahman), from his home in Coventry (UK). He is a Syrian Sunni Muslim who owns a clothes shop.”

              The fact that he’s one man working in a totally unrelated field, situated far away from the conflict zone who consistently takes an anti-Syrian government line has led some to cast aspersions on his impartiality and on the accuracy of the info he puts out in his press releases. That said press releases are often quoted as gospel without question by Western media leaves a lot to be desired.

              • RT isn’t always the most reliable source on issues in which Russia has an interest…

                I concur, Simon. I liken it to the Russian version of the American Empire’s Fox News (though without the hysteria). However, I value it as a news source that presents issues from the Russian point of view.

                Interestingly, I did a search on the RT News website for the Amnesty Report on the Syrian government’s mass executions at Saydnaya military prison. No results. Which I found telling.

                The fact that he’s one man working in a totally unrelated field, situated far away from the conflict zone

                Actually that’s the question: is he working in an unrelated field? Without conducting more research in to who Rami Abdul Rahman is, and what his background is, it’s hard to make any assessment as to his credibility. As a Syrian he may (or may not) have links to contacts throughout Syria. His “situated far away from the conflict zone” may be irrelevant in this day and age of internet communication.

                His source of income may be a positive in that he has independent income. If his source of income was undisclosed, that in itself would raise questions. (Unless he has disclosed and undisclosed income.)

                I’m working on another blogpost, so haven’t got much spare time to research Mr Rahman’s background. I may get back to it at a later stage.

            • dave brown says:

              Don’t get hung up on one man in a shop Frank.
              The main argument of the pro-Assad crowd is to deny the facts on the ground. Especially when it comes to Assad’s use of Sarin and the role of the White Helmets because these are damaging to their cause.
              http://eaworldview.com/2017/12/killing-the-truth-in-syria-the-russian-disinformation-campaign-and-its-allies/

            • Sam Sam says:

              @Dave, mate, we’ve talked about this, you’ve riden this merry go round several times. It was ISIS forces that employed Sarin gas, but real quick, just to recap. Obama’s sectary of state tweeted that US/UN weapons experts removed all of Syrias chemical weapons stock piles, and how did the US know the right numbers, because they sold it to them.

              Obviously straight off the bat every one should be like isn’t the Syrian Civil way self-explanatory… Umm … The reason I say that is because you’ve got an interesting stance on how Assad should be handled and the transition to a new governance structure should be handled in terms of perspective… And that is in a narrative perspective rather than an objective perspective with in the community.

              And I also know a lot of you are going to say, SAM!, you’re an assad apologist… <<<And what's ironic about that is I'm actually doing this write up because Dave posted his view and I have to touch up on some things that he misconstrue or gave to the public. That idea that narratively, Assad abusing his powers, and, objectively ISIS is way more abusive. So as you can see its a bit more complex than people make the Syrian Civil war out to be.

              So before I go I'm just going to go over some quick objective reasoning about why Assad is way more preferable to anti Assad forces.

              So ISIS defeat in Syria was pretty cinematic I would say. They took on Turky, America, Russia, Kurds, Iraq, pretty much no one likes there woman being rapped and there heads cut off. And from from this stand point this seems pretty impressive so the whole gang got together to take out ISIS. And then Russian air power busts through U.S sanctions and cock waving to cripple U.S support of ISIS. So much so the U.S had to offer ISIS safe passage out of Syria (Like WTF!!!???) So the anti Assad narrative was literally obliterated by the Anti U.S narrative. So ISIS just can't be allowed to return to Syria and any connection with the U.S would likely see the return of ISIS to Syria.

              So Assad maintaining his power is generally relative to the strength of pro U.S/anti Assad forces.

              Assad on the other hand is comparable to ISIS. Apart of this narrative is because Assad was democratically elected under UN supervision. Well when this happened 17 confirmed car bombs the previous year kicked off the expansion of the Syrian civil war and facilitated the rise of ISIS. So Assad suppressing the Syrian people has always been relative to the rise of the industrialisation of terrorism. And Assad has always stated his position is in opposition to terrorism and it's only after years of restating this position and hold firm in the face of huge moral outrage, it's now possible to asses the relevance of Assad's anti terror position.

              And then Assad managed to entice Russia into the conflict meaning Assad's position as President of Syria is twice as powerful as before the conflict broke out. And it also should be stated that because of years of conflict Assad's Syrian regime are honing there attacks better. So moving from indiscriminate torture tactics to finally getting there hands on people plotting to take down Assad and bring forth a new class of oppression and torturous behaviour namely Saudi/US backed ISIS terrorists. And Assad is becoming more powerful which is also a step in the wrong direction.

              So from there people say well isn't this war kind of simple… They say isn't all this self explanatory… And it's because, logically Assad with Russian intervention is greater than Saudi and US backed ISIS. Even if you argued Assad and Russia are slightly more terrible than ISIS which is debatable… But Assad + Russia absolutely curd stomps ISIS and there's not a single thing the west (much to there angst) can do about it.

        • David Stone says:

          Frank
          Bashar Assad inherited an existing regime he did not create. Rome wasn’t built in a day. And it wasn’t dismantled in a day either. That report of 13000 victims was based on one prisoner’s account who interpreted sounds he heard from his cell, and statements from several other people who none of whom were direct witnesses to anything. Look into it deeper. It is almost entirely speculative.
          But the US did chose to contract Syrian jails to contract out some of their “extraordinary rendition” . That is a worse inditement for the Syrian prison system.
          I’m surprised you misread Simonm’s comment , it seemed pretty obvious to me what his angle was, I think most would have read it as he meant it.
          Cheers D J S

          • Bashar Assad inherited an existing regime he did not create.

            I cannot accept that (and the rest of your) rationale, David. It’ sounds like a kind of “I was only following orders – in reverse”.

            He’s been president of Syria since July 2000 – seventeen years. I believe nearly two decades is sufficient time to change whatever regime he “inherited”.

            How long did it take Roger Douglas to change the face of New Zealand’s economy? Six years.

            I doubt if the 13,000 prisoners came from just one person. Amnesty International is generally more careful with it’s sourcing of information, the odd error notwithstanding.

            • David Stone says:

              You could fairly write off the last 7 yrs and Syria is a much more complex problem then Douglas had to deal with, but the issue is the truth of the story. There’s room for scepticism. Thanks Francesca and Historian Pete.
              It came out with a satellite image of a “crematorium” which turned out to be the prison’s heating system.
              But surely it is all part of the issue we are looking at that Lorde has taken her stand against.
              Part of the occupied territory is the Syrian Golan Heights. Syria understandably wants it back. The residents want it back in Syria. When they are done with ISIS Hezbollah is likely to take it back if a settlement isn’t reached. Assad is and has been providing a haven for Hezbollah . US must look after Israeli interests. Assad has to go. And to justify his going he has to be a despicable villain.
              Isn’t the story just about getting worn out?
              D J S

        • Historian Pete says:

          Amnesty International is a U.S State Department propaganda mouthpiece.It is run by U.S.State Department representatives and it is funded by the State Department and corporate -financier interests [Tony Cartalucci-Global Research.]
          Here is an excerpt from the 2011 Report of Amnesty International:”The Directors are pleased to acknowledge the support of the John D. and Catharine D. Macarthur Foundation,the Oak Foundation,Open Society Georgia Foundation[George Soros], the Vanguard charitable Endowment
          Program ,Mauro Tures, and American Jewish World Service, the U.K.department for international Development, the European Commission.”
          Suzanne Nossil -Executive Director of Amnesty International USA in 2011 was drawn directly from the U.S.State Department-she was behind U.S State Dept. U.N. resolutions regarding Iran, Syria, and Libya.
          George Soros also funds Human Rights Watch.
          Get the picture Frank?Hardly an independent source! Amnesty International was caught publicizing a bogus report on Serbian atrocities during the breakup of Yugoslavia ,for which they were never held accountable ,of course, considering their sponsors !

          • Francesca says:

            As well they backed the thoroughly bogus babies thrown out of incubators scam(propagated by the Kuwaiti ambassadors daughter with the help of a scurrilous US PR firm Hill and Knowlton, who were paid 10.7 million $ to sell a war with Iraq to the American public)

            • Yes, I recall that, Francesca. It was a line bought hook, line, and sinker by the msm. Even when it became apparent that it was a lie, the msm never re-visited it.

              Little wonder that the “fake news” narrative has credibility with a considerable segment of the US population and Trump’s followers. Ironic though that our American cuzzies created those lies. Not their super-power rivals in Moscow or Beijing.

              The US: it’s own worst enemy.

              An Amnesty International report in 1991 found no evidence for the claims that Iraqi soldiers had deliberately murdered Kuwaiti babies: http://articles.latimes.com/1992-03-06/news/mn-3337_1_incubators

              (edit)

          • Amnesty International is a U.S State Department propaganda mouthpiece.It is run by U.S.State Department representatives and it is funded by the State Department and corporate -financier interests

            I reject that, Pete. AI may recieve funding from a wide range of sources, but it has always been independent and criticised countries whether it be the US, Russia, China, et al. It shows no favouritism when it comes to reporting human rights abuses.

            The fact that AI was open and transparent with it’s funding is to it’s credit.

            Please provide evidence it is a ” a U.S State Department propaganda mouthpiece.It is run by U.S.State Department representatives and it is funded by the State Department”.

            Re Amnesty’s mistaken report, I refer you to my caveat;

            Amnesty International is generally more careful with it’s sourcing of information, the odd error notwithstanding.

            It is nigh on impossible for any organisation to get facts right 100% of the time. With propaganda, fake news, partisan reporting, and outright lies, it is simply impossible and errors inevitably occur.

            The one instance I’m aware of, AI publicised it’s mistake on it’s website.

            Criticism of AI comes from Syria and Israel – neither of which appreciate the spotlight on their human rights abuses.

            One example;

            Likewise, systematic flaws in the reporting of human rights abuses, including the repetition of false libels and comparison of Israel to terror groups such as Hamas.

            ref: https://www.ngo-monitor.org/books/amnesty_international_failed_methodology_corruption_and_anti_israel_bias/

            Please provide your reference for the claim “Amnesty International was caught publicizing a bogus report on Serbian atrocities during the breakup of Yugoslavia ,for which they were never held accountable ,of course, considering their sponsors !”

            If it’s Global Research, you’ll be aware that they also support conspiracy theories/alt.history such as 9/11 being an “inside job”; chemtrails are deliberate poisoning; anti-vaccination; HAARP as a “super weapon”; the Charlie Hebdo attack was a “false flag”, etc.

            They appear to be an alt.left (?) version of Brietbart News, et al.

            • Francesca says:

              Amnesty initially corroborated her story.It was only when the fighting was over and they were able to conduct an investigation , visit the hospital concerned and others in the area, that they came out with the finding that the testimony was false. A little too late.They would have been better to hold fire until a proper on the ground investigation could be made Until they do the same at Sadnaya, I’m with holding judgement

            • Historian Pete says:

              I have just given you evidence that Amnesty International is not independent Frank.The problem is that you are brainwashed to the Western Narrative and as soon as evidence is presented to the contrary your conditioning goes into denial.
              As to the accusation of Amnesty International being complicit in spreading bogus stories in the breakup of Yugoslavia, I invite you to examine the following.This is a lot more complicated than delivering a link to the U.S.Empire propaganda organ the Washington Post [You know- the one with the 10% CIA shareholding]
              Amnesty International and Yugoslavia-duped or Accomplice-Philip Greenspan.[He was a member of A.I until he realized their real agenda]
              The Breakup of Yugoslavia-International Action Center.
              To kill a Nation:The attack on Yugoslavia.-by Michael Parenti.
              The Bogus”Humanitarian war on Serbia. John Pilger.
              Nato war crime Yugoslavia- Homosociologicus.
              What Nato lead by the U.S. Empire did to Yugoslavia is every bit as criminal as what they did to Iraq.And A.I. was complicit in this.
              You can get info on all this online. Enjoy!!

              • Francesca says:

                You’ve probably come across it, the “photo that fooled the World “by a German journalist is a case study in how to manipulate consent for a full on war, in this case the bombing of Serbia

              • You can get info on all this online. Enjoy!!

                Sorry, no, Pete. That won’t do at all. I’m not going to go chasing all over the internet to prove your assertion. When I present evidence, I do the courtesy of presenting citations for readers. I don’t think it’s asking too much for you to reciprocate?

                Because not only is providing a citation a courtesy, it gives us an idea who you are using for your sources., That is as critical (if not more so) as the info itself.

                • Historian Pete says:

                  My evidence is in books Frank.Something that I imagine that you never read.If you want an in depth knowledge of a subject you have to do this.This explains your superficial knowledge of most subjects. Instead you go from one MSM U.S. Empire source to another, and of course you come up with a U.S.Empire narrative answer. You are effectively ,for most issues, a stenographer for the U.S. State Department.You can wallow in self delusion,or develop a professional approach to investigative journalism. Your choice!!!

                • David Stone says:

                  I get your charge for citations Frank. and I appreciate your own fulsome referencing. But articles and investigations on the same event are often presented in a cross section of news outlets, some of which will be approved by a particular reader and some not. If the interested reader makes their own search once a matter is identified they will usually get a range of outlets having addressed it. I would often rather people did their own search for things I have read about.
                  Also most outlets if not all provide articles that range widely in their quality and bias. All are quite capable of excellent reporting, and all are capable of producing utter crap.
                  D J S

        • Pat O'Dea says:

          To all the, Oh So reasonable, liberal apologists for genocide.

          For daring to express solidarity with the Syrian people, who are being massacred from the air by the Assad regime and their Russian allies, is to be often accused of being in the pay of the CIA. I have even been accused by agents of the regime of being a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. (Which if I was still in Syria, tantamount to a sentence of death).

          If like Rami Abdulrahmn you are so obviously not in the pay of any Western government, and you are earning an honest living to support yourself, you are accused of being irrelevant.

          This condescending dismissal of a Syrian emigre who supports himself by selling clothes, is a symptom of a wider contempt and dismissal of the testimony of the Syrian people in revolt and the millions of refugees who have fled the genocidal aerial bombardment and starvation sieges conducted by the regime against the liberated areas and cities.

          Who is better placed to comment on Syria? Anonymous self styled Western liberal instant experts on Syria, with no links to the country, who from the comfort of their living rooms, remotely hector and slander the the Syrian people for daring to rise up against a genocidal regime?

          Or the Syrian people themselves?

          • Francesca says:

            He himself admits to receiving money from the European Council, and another European state he will not name

          • David Stone says:

            Absolutely the Syrian people themselves. Just as long as there’s a free and fair election properly monitored with the incumbent as one of the candidates.
            D J S

    • Andy says:

      We needn’t worry about Syria because there aren’t any Jews there anymore

  5. CLEANGREEN says:

    Yes Martyn,

    It seems as if the “World Values network” who says their mission is to “Promote human rights” and will not allow Lorde her right to have ‘human rights’ to choose her wish also?

    So who is the Bigot now?

    Israel is clearly the Bigot here not Lorde.

  6. Lorde made her decision to abandon her tour of Israel.

    In response, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, who organised the Washington Post advert said,

    “Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.”

    ref: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/videos/1.636855

    Israel’s Ambassador to New Zealand, Itzhak Gerberg referred to;

    “Israel, its achievements and its role as the only democracy in the Middle East”.

    ref: https://www.timesofisrael.com/rabbi-calls-lorde-a-bigot-in-full-page-washington-post-ad/

    Since when was it permissable for a democracy to exert pressure on citizens of another country to perform on demand and criticise them if they say “no”?!

    That’s not the hallmark of any democracy that I know of.

    Perhaps the funniest statement from Rabbi Boteach was when he complained;

    “Sadly, New Zealand’s growing prejudice against the Jewish State seems to be trickling down to its youth. Lorde […] joined the anti-Semitic BDS movement which seeks the economic annihilation of the Jewish State, by cancelling her scheduled concert in Tel Aviv.”

    ref: https://www.timesofisrael.com/rabbi-calls-lorde-a-bigot-in-full-page-washington-post-ad/

    WTF?

    Cancelling a singing performance would result in the “annihilation of the Jewish State”?

    Damn.

    We could have won World War 2 in 48 hours by taking a few singers out of Nazi Germany!

    • David Stone says:

      I guess the Israelis must feel very insecure and understandably so.
      The establishment during WW1 was by a third party occupying power without regard to the incumbent population’s wishes or rights and the constant expansion and occupation ever since , and the belligerence with which it is maintained is a gross violation of laws and natural justice. As the sympathy of the world for the suffering the Jews were subjected to during WW2 fades into history the sympathy for Zionist subsequent behaviour is fading too.
      I think the WP article will backfire on them in overall opinion.
      Thank the Lorde
      D J S

    • CLEANGREEN says:

      Yep Frank;

      “We could have won World War 2 in 48 hours by taking a few singers out of Nazi Germany!”

      In my exerience;

      It was the ‘singers’ who spurred the opposition to the Vietnam war wasn’t it Frank?

      As I remember being in Canada when the ‘real peace concert’ begun at “Woodstock”.

      I was only a 25yr import from NZ then at the time, and found myself being swept arong with the antiwar beliefs of that time which hastened the end of the Vietnam war.

    • Andy says:

      No, what he is saying is that BDS seeks the annihilation of the Jewish State.

      This is clearly true, since BDS activists scream “From the River to the Sea” on their little marches.

      I have never heard what they intend to do to the Jews once they have taken them to the sea. Does anyone have any “solutions”?

      • simonm says:

        That’s complete cobblers Andy, as you’re well aware. BDS, whether you agree with it or not, is a peaceful protest movement along the lines of the anti-apartheid protests against South Africa that seeks the establishment of either a “two state” solution, one Israeli state and one Palestinian state, side by side divided by the 1967 Green Line ‘or’ a “one state” solution (“from the river to the sea”) with all citizens, both Jewish and Palestinian having one vote each. This is of course how genuine democracies work.

        Israel and its supporters always claim that a genuinely democratic “one state” solution would wipe out Israel as we know it, and in many respects this is true. The fault for this lies entirely on the Israeli side as its continued insistence on placing more illegal Jewish settlements on West Bank land the Palestinians want for a state of their own has made a “two state” solution very nearly infeasible.

        To all those who say, “Don’t Jews have a right to live in the West Bank?” I say, “Sure, if 600,000 Palestinian refugees can be settled in Israel ‘proper” in the interests of fairness, because after all, if it’s OK to plant more Jews in the West Bank, surely it must be OK for the Palestinian refugees to be afforded the full ‘Right of Return’.

        To Andy:

        I asked another supporter of Israel the question below and was met (somewhat predictably) with complete silence. I notice you’re not shy about sharing your opinion – perhaps you can do better:

        ‘Do you think the Palestinians have the right to a viable state (not just a motley collection of Bantustans) next to Israel, drawn along the 1967 Green Line?’

        • Andy says:

          “Palestinians” already have a state. It’s called Jordan

          Israel is half the size of Canterbury NZ.
          The West Bank is one fifth the size of that

          The only reason that “Palestinians’ continue to reject all the peace offerings from Israel is bacause they want to wipe Israel and the Jews off the face of the earth

          The Qur’an refers to Jews as “Pigs and Apes”

          There is zero chance of a peaceful “Palestinian State”

          Jewish history is littered with attempts to exterminate them from BC times. So it’s not surprising that the Jews won’t concede to be run by Arabs

          • None of what you say is remotely accurate, Andy. At “best”, it’s fear-mongering.

            • simonm says:

              Actually, I’d say it’s racist horseshit. At least we know where Andy stands now, though credit due for being honest about his convictions I suppose.

              It seems to me Andy, that you use the phrase “Palestinian” with all the hatred and venom you accuse others on this site of having for Jews. I suggest you have a look in the mirror mate.

              • Andy says:

                “Racist horseshit”

                OK I admit. I am against people who wish to exterminate the Jews. Sorry for not being more “progressive”

                If that makes me “racist”, so be it.

                You guys can sip your Pinot’s while the trains are being loaded up with Jews and congratulate yourselves on how Progressive you are

                I will never, ever, be your friend.

                • Andy says:

                  This is what I have “learned” from this blog.
                  (1) There is no Jewish history in Israel
                  (2) Jews aren’t a race, just a religion.
                  (3) “Palestinians” are the indigenous people of “Palestine”

                  The first step in extinguishing a people is to extinguish their history, which is precisely what you are doing.

                  So, I therefore conclude that your true agenda is the extermination of the Jews.

                • Sam Sam says:

                  Andy, Andy, Andy… A strong Jewish state, as an ideal. Only goes so far.

                  When you condone racism, murder, genocide, rape, torture, apartheid, and mutilation in the name of Judaism then you’re condoning racism, murder, genocide, rape, torture, apartheid, and mutilation.

                  Some things shouldn’t be condoned.

                  When people are wrong, then you tell them that they’re wrong. It’s the right thing to do, and it does them a favor in the long run. Ignoring the damage and saying that they can’t help themselves because it’s their culture is the racist thing to do.

                  If the Aztecs were still around, I’d tell them that they shouldn’t cut out people’s hearts. I really don’t care if it’s their culture, if it’s their religion, or if it’s an ancient tradition. It’s murder. It isn’t wrong because they’re Aztecs, it isn’t wrong because their culture is different. It’s wrong because it’s murder. And every other murder is just as wrong.

                  It is very possible for some aspects of jewish culture to just be wrong, and those should always be opposed, in the most practical means, from within and from without.

                  • Andy says:

                    “When you condone racism, murder, genocide, rape, torture, apartheid, and mutilation in the name of Judaism”

                    I’m not condoning anything. All I have done is question the assertions that Jews have no history in Israel, and that Israel is an entirely modern construct.

                    We haven’t even got past first base yet. Which, as it happens, is why there will never be a solution to this problem

                    • All I have done is question the assertions that Jews have no history in Israel, and that Israel is an entirely modern construct.

                      Of course there is history, Andy. No one is denying that. But going back 5,000 years is a wee bit of a pointless exercise. You might as well point to Britain seeking compensation from Italy for invasion by the Roman Empire. It starts getting a bit silly and pointless.

                      Israel’s existence is mandated by the U.N. and it is (in my strongest view) entitled to it’s 1948 borders.

                      It is not, however, entitled to one centimetre of land in Gaza, the West Bank, Jersulaem as a capital, Golan Heights, or anywhere else. Israel’s continuing imperialist expansion beyomnd it’s 1948 borders is the greatest threat to it’s existence. As such, on-going violence in the middle east is a crisis of it’s own making.

                      Lorde (and any other rational person) should think carefully before getting involved in that mess for cultural, sporting, commercial, etc, purposes.

                  • Sam Sam says:

                    The idea that Jews should have self-determination in a land of their own became popular in the 1800s and is part of the breakdown in religious identity globally at that time, in the course of which ethnocultural units (= nations) were embued with particular qualities (“Germans are a people of poets and thinkers,” for instance). This was tied into the breakdown of the multinational empires, which were often based on religious identity, and corresponding attempts to create national empires, of which the most glaring examples are the unifications of Italy and Germany, the latter of which reached its full apogee in the Nazi Heim ins Reich. (This is not to say that Nazism is a logical consequence of nationalism — it is not, it is actually a fusion of German nationalism, conspiracy theories, and biological racism — it is simply a glaring example of one way in which nationalism developed.) In the case of Jews specifically it is complicated by the idea of returning to Palestine being part of Judaism — however this was supposed to be in the future after the coming of the Messiah, which is why religious Jews had a very uneasy relationship with Zionism. Since it’s kind of, well, where is the Messiah?

                    Now the flip side of this, you seem to me, to be denying post-1800s nationalism are often themselves nationalists, in so far as they see the whole world as if they were members of whatever nation one takes as the baseline. So for instance there are strenuous attempts to deny that Arab culture fundamentally differs from, say, right wing Israeli extremists, something you say a lot when talking about Israel or condoning Israeli racism, murder, genocide, rape, torture, apartheid, and mutilation.

                • simonm says:

                  “I will never, ever, be your friend.”

                  No you won’t Andy. I’ll never be joining you to hear Don Brash speak at a ‘Hobson’s Pledge’ rally, so our paths are unlikely to ever cross.

                  • Andy says:

                    Your characterisation of me as a Canonical Right Winger is very far off the mark, I’m afraid

                    • Well, Andy, you do rather rely quite heavily on Biblical justification for Israeli aggression…

                    • Andy says:

                      I don’t “rely heavily’ on Biblical Scripture, but the simple fact is that Jews have a long and tortured history in what we may describe as the “Holy Land”

                      If we can’t get past first base on that- and I accept that there are secular Jews in Tel Aviv and the USA etc that don’t subscribe to this world view – then we can’t really move forward

                      In my perfect world, we’d have a two state solution, all be singing together and running our homes off solar and wind power, but the world is a little more complex than I can deal with

        • simonm says:

          More on this issue from those avowed “Jew-haters” at the New York Times. I think the journalist who wrote it is Jewish (must be one of the ‘self-hating’ ones I guess).

          https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/01/world/middleeast/israeli-jerusalem-west-bank.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-4&action=click&contentCollection=Middle%20East&region=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article

    • Wensleydale says:

      When you don’t have a cogent argument, you employ gratuitous hyperbole and incendiary rhetoric as a substitute. You don’t want your audience to “think”, you want them to “feel”. It’s emotional manipulation 101. This is essentially how Trump was elected, and Boteach is reading from the same play-book. Calm, reasoned debate is the nemesis of ranting shit-stirrers the world over.

      When I was a child I used to believe that adults were the voice of reason — sensible, intelligent and not given to child-like fits of pique or bouts of dangerous hysteria. Now that I’m an adult, I know they’ll gleefully put toddlers to shame.

  7. Nitrium Nitrium says:

    Since when was it permissable for a democracy to exert pressure on citizens of another country to perform on demand and criticise them if they say “no”?!

    Since the precedent set by US and the UK in 1953 when they invaded a democracy (Iran) without consequence. Not to mention all the other countries the US and UK have invaded over the years. But to invade a country with a democratically elected regime to install a dictatorship really was a particularly egregious use of force by the West imo. If you can get away with that, you can get away with anything.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_Kingdom

  8. Pat O'Dea says:

    Good one Martyn.

    BDS is great. It shifted South Africa. Particularly the high profile protests against sporting contact. If you don’t think it had an impact then you haven’t talked to South Africans. It had a huge impact. And in more ways they one. Part of the colonial project is to colonise the minds of the oppressed to accept their condition, and the minds of the oppressors that what they are doing is right. That people around the world were prepared to forego their own comfort and even risk imprisonment to to stand in solidarity with the people of South Africa, against apartheid, had a huge cultural impact on both black and white South Africans.

    Nelson Mandela famously said of the time in Robben Island, when he heard the news of the invasion of Rugby Park in Hamilton, “It was like the sun came out.”

    But possibly just as profound may have been the effect on white South Africans. I have talked to white South African migrants here, it may be anecdotal but what they told me wast that their sense of legitimacy left them, and that the White, soldiers and police, most of whom were reluctant conscripts, no longer had the heart to act as enforcers for the apartheid regime. As one South African ex-conscript soldier told me, “We would find any excuse to go on strike, and not to leave the barracks.”

    “We would go on strike over the not having a good TV in the mess room”.

    “We would go on strike over the food”.

    “Surely we were the only army in the world that would go on strike every other week.”

    It is debatable whether in the end whether BDS had as much economic as social effect.

    One of the big cultural turning points, that many white South Africans point to, the one that finally shook their last vestiges of faith in the apartheid regime, was the crash of South African Airways Flight 295. 2On 28 November 1987, the Boeing 747 crashed into the Indian Ocean killing all 159 crew and passengers. It was believed by many white and black South Africans that the plane was brought down when smuggled rocket fuel and weapons in the cargo hold caught fire. The munitions were being illegally transported on a passenger aircraft by the South African Government and SAA to beat the arms boycott imposed on the apartheid regime by the international community.

    BDS weakened the resolve of the oppressors, as well as the strengthening the resolve of the oppressed, letting them know that they are not alone, and that their struggle is just in the eyes of the world.

  9. Pat O'Dea says:

    The whole world is watching

    The new Mandelas

    Ahed Tamimi

    Khalida Jarrar

    Never mentioned by Lorde’s detractors, are the names of two other women who are also currently taking a brave and principled stand against the Israeli apartheid state at a personal cost.

    ehttps://www.cbsnews./news/ahed-tamimi-palestinian-teen-filmed-slapping-israel-soldiers-indicted/

    Ahed has made headlines in the past, most famously in 2015 when she bit a soldier’s hand as he held her brother in a chokehold in an attempted arrest.

    She is from Nebi Saleh, a village of about 600 people, most of them members of her extended family. For eight years, villagers along with Israeli and foreign activists have protested weekly against Israeli policies in the West Bank.

    In a separate case, the family of a female Palestinian lawmaker who has been jailed without charge since July said her detention has been extended for another six months.

    Khalida Jarrar has been held under an Israeli policy called administrative detention, which allows Palestinians to be arrested for months at a time without any charges being filed.

    During my lifetime I have dedicated my life to this struggle of the African people. I have fought against white domination, and I have fought against black domination. I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons will live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal for which I hope to live for and to see realised. But, my Lord, if it needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.

    Nelson Mandela

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivonia_Trial

    US government considered Nelson Mandela a terrorist until 2008

    After the apartheid regime in South Africa declared the ANC a terrorist group, the Reagan administration followed suit.

    In August of 1988, the State Department listed the ANC among “organizations that engage in terrorism.” It said the group ”disavows a strategy that deliberately targets civilians,” but noted that civilians had “been victims of incidents claimed by or attributed to the ANC.”

    Five months later, in January 1989, the Defense Department included the ANC in an official publication, “Terrorist Group Profiles,” with a foreword by President-elect George H.W. Bush. The ANC was listed among 52 of the “world’s more notorious terrorist groups.” (One of the others listed, Yasser Arafat’s Fatah, is now the ruling party in the West Bank.)……

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/us-government-considered-nelson-mandela-terrorist-until-2008-f2D11708787

    The terrorist designation finally proved too embarrassing for the U.S. government to ignore. In April 2008, during the last year of the George W. Bush administration, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told a Senate committee that her department had to issue waivers for ANC members to travel to the United States.

    “This is a country with which we now have excellent relations, South Africa, but it’s frankly a rather embarrassing matter that I still have to waive in my own counterpart, the foreign minister of South Africa, not to mention the great leader Nelson Mandela,” Rice said.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/us-government-considered-nelson-mandela-terrorist-until-2008-f2D11708787

  10. R J Connor says:

    I know it’s the silly season in NZ where newspapers are fairly inactive aside from publishing happy holiday stories and talking about the road toll but I’ve been astonished at the lack of comment locally about the abuse poured on Lorde over the last couple of days. I haven’t noticed any comment from the government either even though NZ has also been excoriated by Rabbi Boteach
    I got the impression that no-one cared

    So thanks Martyn for your piece today. No-one should be subjected to such trolling as Lorde has been recently.

  11. remo says:

    It appears ‘op/MOSSADEQ/2’ is underway. As fortold by ex-NATO Wesley Clarke’s post 911 deception ‘regime change’ list.
    TRUMP triggering the JerUSAlem/capital outrage during Christ-mass and at the moment US sanctions begin to bite in IRAN, allow chaos as cover; normal patterning for Israel/USAMO expansionist wars.
    Lorde suddenly pulls out of Israel concert is another in the multi dimensional war front of Israeli existence. A country born of occupation, force and mass deception is now a fully recognised apartheid state that has never not been at war. A racist state determined to own the narrative entirely. Including the rewriting of history as George O warned.
    Lorde’s behaviour obviously damages that narrative otherwise the media asset Bezos and CIA contracted WoPo would not be deployed. In the face of this terrible war-machine, one can only offer Kia Kaha to Lorde and her team.

    • Andy says:

      I find it amusing that people prattle on about the “racist state” of Israel, when opining from the comfort of their nice little White Supremacist lives in lil’ old NZ, a country that has only existed for about 150 years and was founded on racism and division, and continues to do so to this day

      • Sam Sam says:

        In all seriousness: Don’t you have better things you could hate?

        Like the 9-5 workday? Or the inner workings of the National Party? Or why the need for low wage conditions is patently ridiculous?

        What does this accomplish exactly? There’s so many other things to waste your brain cells on when it comes to irrational haterade IMO.

        • Andy says:

          I do have a lot to do, but it is this blog that has been pumping out anti-Jew posts everyday since Jan 1st, so the hate isn’t coming from me.

          It’s a personal thing, you see, do to family history. I loathe Jew haters and Islamic Supremacist apologists.

          • Sam Sam says:

            Well you got a load off your chest. So you drunk the pro-Israel kool-aid to the point that you’re semi-coherent at best. And every post you comment is a thinly disguised excuse to pull out your hate-boner towards New Zealand Maori, New Zealand LBGTI, New Zealand’s single parents, Bassically anything _______ New Zealand does. And now we’re expected to accomodate your persoanal needs, like as if Isreali policy towards Palastinians isn’t racist.

            • Andy says:

              ” And every post you comment is a thinly disguised excuse to pull out your hate-boner towards New Zealand Maori, New Zealand LBGTI, New Zealand’s single parents, Bassically anything”

              Yes please feel free to demonise me as a racist , bene bashing, homophobic transphobic bigot, just because I call you lot out on your lies about Israel and Jews.

              I know how you “Progressives” think you are right about everything.

              There is no evidence that I am any of the above, but please feel free to make stuff up, just like you make stuff up about any of your other pet causes

              Facts don’t matter for “Progressives”, it’s all about feelings. Specifically, your feelings, and how morally virtuous you see yourselves.

              I’m sorry to say that I don’t see it that way

      • simonm says:

        Oh indeed Andy – who are we to preach? Your English roots are much more wholesome, and were of course founded entirely on fairness and compassion *coughs*

        • Andy says:

          Indeed, that’s why I am not preaching.

        • Andy says:

          By the way, why do you assume that I have English roots?

          • simonm says:

            Cos you said so yourself on Whale Oil. Two can play the windup game Chief ;o)

            • Andy says:

              I am half German, half English

              Glad you read Whaleoil though. I expect you have bookmarked my comment for me to review?

              Just like good little activists always do

              • simonm says:

                I sometimes glance at Whale Blubber for the unintentional satire – most amusing I must say :o)

                I’ve never bookmarked any of the comments though – I’d have to read one I thought was worth saving first.

  12. Zack Brando says:

    I dear you to publish this comment: The Daily Blog is going down hill fast. Who cares what Lorde does or doesn’t do – she is just another ignorant celebrity. Lorde has no meaningful insight to offer on Israel/Palestine relations.

    As for the ‘poor wee Palestinians’ or as I call them, “the tents of Edom” – they certainly aren’t doing themselves any favors. Also I’d suggest their neighbors such as Jordan aren’t doing much for their plight either.

    For all the gripping about America moving its embassy to Jerusalem, I wouldn’t be surprised if America cut it’s billions of dollar in aid.

    I’m not excusing Israel for it’s actions, but when news sites like the Daily Blog bang on about occupied territories, territories which are absolutely tiny and were acquired due to the ‘6 day war’ against Israel – the thinking person shakes their head.

    Originally the Balfour Declaration was to give Israel much more land, including the whole of Jordan. Israel is tiny, what, the size of Christchurch? Yet news sites like the Daily Blog keep showing/referring to the propagandized maps of Israel getting bigger?

    To bring Lorde into the conversation is truly a new journalist low … perhaps the Daily Blog should change it’s name to Stuff 2.0. As for PM Ardern she should keep NZ and her ignorant nose out of it.

    • …and were acquired due to the ‘6 day war’ against Israel

      You mean the war Israel started with it’s surprise attack on Egyptian airfields on 5 June 1967? And ended when it acquired more territory on the Golan Heights, West Bank, and Gaza Strip?

      Never mind Lorde – Israel is the issue here.

      ref: https://www.britannica.com/event/Six-Day-War

      • Zack Brando says:

        “In response to the apparent mobilization of its Arab neighbours, early on the morning of June 5, Israel staged a sudden preemptive air assault that destroyed more than 90 percent Egypt’s air force on the tarmac.”

        You have a cynical interpretation of your linked article Frank? Also as we both know the Golan Heights are import to Israel due to their ability to be used as a staging ground against Israel’s citizens. Not arguing ownership, just saying …

        Normally agree with a lot of points you make Frank but when it comes to Israel/Palestine I really believe anybody who picks up this hot potato gets burnt over and over. I believe the Bible says, paraphrasing; ‘Israel will become a burdensome stone for the whole earth and anybody/nation foolish enough to get involved will suffer/be destroyed.’

        That could be referring to ancient Israel or ‘spiritual Israel’ but it certainly rings true. There is a compulsion by nations to get involved, IMO NZ should just say “no deal” and pick some other people to help, maybe NZers.

        • You have a cynical interpretation of your linked article Frank?

          … which doesn’t change the fact that Israel began the 1967 War on it’s neighbours with it’s undeclared strike on Egyptian airfields. So we can put a stop right away to the fallacy that the war was started by the Arab states.

          Also as we both know the Golan Heights are import to Israel due to their ability to be used as a staging ground against Israel’s citizens.

          My neighbour’s car might be “important to me” Zack. But there are laws against me staging a raid to seize it.

          I believe the Bible says, paraphrasing; ‘Israel will become a burdensome stone for the whole earth and anybody/nation foolish enough to get involved will suffer/be destroyed.’t

          It may come as a surprise to some, Zack, but I don’t base 20th/21st century geopolitical events on a collection of supernatural myths, legends, and half-truths written several thousand years ago. I don’t even share your belief in your invisible friend.

          However, with Israel’s arsenal of atomic bombs, there’s an element of truth to your comment. They are more of a threat to peace in the region than, say, Iran.

          I reject any assertion that Israel has claims over any territory outside the 1948 U.N. resolution. It’s land-grab of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and now making Jerusalem it’s capital marks it as expansionist and imperialistic.

        • By the way, I endorse Israel’s right to exist – within it’s 1948 U.N. mandated borders.

        • remo says:

          Lot (/lɒt/; Hebrew: לוֹט‬, Modern Lot Tiberian Lôṭ,) of people going to be burned in this, Zack.

          http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/lets-end-the-israeli-tie-that-binds/

          As to Golan. Important to Israel for other reasons too : https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Tensions-Mount-In-The-Golan-Heights-Over-Oil-And-Territory.html
          Genie Energy: This from a 2010 Genie Energy press release:
          https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1vxv82/murdoch_rothschild_and_co_to_plunder_syria/
          Claude Pupkin, CEO of Genie Oil and Gas, commented, “Genie’s success will ultimately depend, in part, on access to the expertise of the oil and gas industry and to the financial markets. Jacob Rothschild and Rupert Murdoch are extremely well regarded by and connected to leaders in these sectors. Their guidance and participation will prove invaluable.”
          “I am grateful to Howard Jonas and IDT for the opportunity to invest in this important initiative,” Lord Rothschild said. “Rupert Murdoch’s extraordinary achievements speak for themselves and we are very pleased he has agreed to be our partner. Genie Energy is making good technological progress to tap the world’s substantial oil shale deposits which could transform the future prospects of Israel, the Middle East and our allies around the world.”

  13. Priss says:

    For a country that professes to be a democracy, it’s supporters behave like brown-shirts demanding absolutely fealty to the regime.

    Israel comes out of this look very , very badly.

    Lorde said NO. What part of NO is confusing?

  14. Pat O'Dea says:

    Gassing the Palestinians

    It may not be immediately lethal, but it’s widespread and indiscriminate daily use against the Palestinians is just as casually fascist

    https://electronicintifada.net/content/israel-testing-new-types-tear-gas-bethlehem/22856

    Every resident in Aida refugee camp – beside the occupied West Bank city of Bethlehem – may have been exposed to tear gas fired by Israeli forces, according to a new study.

    Conducted by University of California researchers, the study notes Israel’s “widespread, frequent and indiscriminate” use of tear gas against Palestinians.

    The report cites incidents of tear gas as often as two to three times a week for more than a year, and in some months, almost every day.

    In a November speech, Pierre Krähenbühl, the top official with UNRWA, the UN agency for Palestine refugees, said such research suggests that Aida’s residents “are exposed to more tear gas than any other population surveyed globally.”

    “They’re shooting everywhere in the camp,” Salah Ajarma, a director at Lajee, the cultural center in Aida, told The Electronic Intifada. “They don’t care about where they shoot.”

    Dangerous to go outside
    Members of the team which conducted the study, published by the Human Rights Center at the University of California, Berkeley, witnessed several tear gas incidents while conducting their research. They concluded from their interviews that Israeli forces’ use of tear gas “is not limited to protests or to those at risk of causing violence.”

    “Sometimes it’s dangerous to leave the center when there is tear gas outside,” said Ajarma. He recalled a day he confronted soldiers firing tear gas, asking why they were shooting when no children were throwing stones.

    “They said, ‘Yesterday they [the children] threw stones and we want to start the tear gas today before the children start.’ So it’s a kind of practice for them,” he added.

    In addition to tear gas, the new report finds that most of Aida’s residents have been exposed to stun grenades, skunk water – a foul-smelling mixture of unknown chemicals fired from high-pressure water cannons – and pepper spray. More than 50 percent of residents interviewed have witnessed the use of rubber-coated steel bullets, while about six percent were “directly witness” to live ammunition being shot.

    More than 22 percent of people surveyed said they had been struck directly by a tear gas canister at some point in their lives.

    The new report notes that tear gas and other chemical irritants are banned from use as a weapon of war by the 1992 Chemical Weapons Convention, but not for civil law enforcement “as long as the types and quantities are consistent with such purposes.”

    The report concludes, however, that Israeli forces’ use of tear gas “is in discordance with all publicly available international guidelines on how it should be used.”

    Aida residents who took part in the survey reported a number of physical effects from tear gas exposure, including asthma, rashes and headaches. It also notes how a 25-year-old woman who took part in the survey had a miscarriage late in the third trimester of pregnancy. A tear gas canister had landed on that woman’s patio several days before she miscarried; she had severe respiratory systems while being exposed to tear gas.

    Tear gas has proven to be a lethal weapon on a number of occasions. In April 2014, for example, I attended the funeral of Noha Katamish – a 45-year-old resident of Aida – who died from the effects of tear gas that Israeli forces fired through her living room window.

    Salah Ajarma from the Lajee Center described how homes in the camp offer no refuge from the gas. “Sometimes [people] go to their neighbors because they feel it’s safer, but it’s not,” he added.

    Many of the psychological impacts of Israeli forces’ use of tear gas stem from its frequency, unpredictability and the inability to escape its effects.

    One teenager testified in the report: “We don’t feel safe in our homes. We don’t feel safe anywhere.”

    The report states that unpredictability is especially stress-inducing because raids involving tear gas are not always tied to specific incidents, creating “a state of hyper-arousal, fear and worry.”

    This is the monstrous regime that Lorde has defied with her courageous decision to cancel her tour.