Look Chippy, all I’m saying is that you can’t count and Grant here can’t count, and Jacinda over there doesn’t seem like she can count so you either trust us that you don’t have the numbers or you go get Paddles the Cat to do your counting. Either way, you can’t count.
The concessions that National managed to con Labour into giving them based on the lie that they could out vote the new Government on the first day of Parliament will be used to their most wicked effect.
Most NZers have no idea what a Select Committee is or does. They are the filters put upon our legislative process so that there is external input to the law.
When a law gets drafted, it gets its first reading in Parliament and then is sent off to Select Committee for everyone to debate and discuss the law.
Over the 9 years of National, they paid lip service to the Select Committee process and would host fake consultations that were just window dressing. When they couldn’t get things through that dumbed down process, National just rammed through law under urgency to bypass the entire facade.
So what will happen now?
National will use the gains they have on Select Committees to stop and slow down the entire legislative agenda of the new Government.
National will call on massive public engagement from their voters and their financial backers to slow down the Select Committee process and scream about democracy being under attack if they aren’t allowed to have every Farmer and rich property owner in front of the Select Committee to complain about any new law.
National will have the audacity to paint themselves as the true champions of democracy despite doing more to erode democracy over the last 10 years than Nazi Germany ever managed against us in World War 2.
The mainstream media will of course pick up this new narrative of National being Democracy’s white knight and rather than highlighting their hypocrisy will unquestioningly spread this view of National.
Expect that relative you don’t like much who you are forced to see at Christmas each year to start declaring National are the true defenders of democracy, just try not to choke on the Christmas Lunch when they do this.
That will be their tactics inside Parliament, outside Parliament they will be searching for attacks that can symbolically represent all the fictitious complaints they have against Labour so expect well resourced smears against Unions. Watch how septic the repeal of the Hobbit law will become, look for stories that claim life is getting too easy for prisoners and watch how new attacks against Teachers who offend against students will become the next news craze.
Winning against National is one thing, governing over them while the mainstream media is totally hostile towards you is another and at this stage it doesn’t seem the Labour Party, Greens or NZ First have the behind the scenes think tank who can game play these scenarios out well enough to not get tripped up.
I don’t think anyone inside the new Government yet understands how National will turn the Select Committees into public witch hunts.
Martyn thanks for this article; the subject is very hurtful for our regions HB/Gisborne- allow me to explain;
SELECT COMMITTEES. – HOW IT FUNCTIONED UNDER NATIONAL.
We saw the naked aggressive behaviour from National in their administration of the ‘Transport & Industrial relations Select Committee’ Chaired by MP David Bennett in 2012 when he ruled over the fate of the Napier Gisborne rail service Government was aggressively moving to close (mothball) this service.
Phil Twyford (transport shadow) & Moana Mackay (Labour East coast labour MP) both were our labour representatives on that select committee at this time so both can bear testimony to these facts I speak of today here.
The chair refused to allow representation from the petitioners of a “save the rail” signed document by 10,480 citizens was presented by Labour MP Moana Mackay in opposition, as Moana was our parliamentary representative to Parliament asking for the community to have their rights to have a verbal representations in front of this Select Committee.
At that time the Chair David Bennett said solidly NO No, “we do not see the need for community representation here.”
Labour coalition now need to amend the Select Committee rules allowing submitters to have their democratic right to present their case before these committees.
If left to National to run these ‘select committees’ we are about to lose any fights we think we would win like we lost our rail service and now we have decaying dangerous truck gridlocked roads that we are paying heavily for repairs and the environment is being so badly degraded now in future our water quality will be undrinkable and poisoned along with our air.
You are 100% correct here Martyn.
You’re 100% right Martyn
They will employ the same tactics the Greens have used for years in resource consent hearings.
What’s going around, comes around. 😉
Do you mean to say you believe in Karma? I don’t think so really, National screwed over plenty of really nice people who didn’t get ‘rewarded’ financially or non-financially. You must believe in an afterlife, I reckon every bad thing and good thing will be weighed up after you die.
In conclusion: In this life no, after life, yes.
Any examples, Andrew, or just another thrown around allegation?
That’s quite a feat, Andrew, considering The Greens had only two committee members out of eleven on the Local Government and Environment Select Committee (2014-17).
Ref: https://www.parliament.nz/en/get-involved/features-pre-2016/document/00NZPHomeNews201410241/select-committee-membership
How do two members out-vote nine? Any idea?
I can’t remember where I read this so it’s just from memory but its not really possible to filibuster like they do in the US. If they keep asking or saying the same thing eventually it gets pointed out that it’s not contributing anything new.
Not only that , but every time they make an attack ,all that needs be done is point out Nationals atrocious behavior and failure over the last 9 years specific to the line of attack they try to use,- holding them up for ridicule and then passing legislation under urgency if needs be if National refuses to play ball.
It would be easy enough to do National serious damage because they would instantly hold themselves up for criticism every time they try that tactic.
So it wont be quite as cozy as they may like to think.
Record homelessness and child poverty are serious charges of deliberate incompetence , – as are water pollution and enabling vested Chinese interests using soft power by having an MP who could potentially be a Chinese spy in their caucus.
Yes they have a filibuster law in the US and should do here as national (as Andrew points out) willl keep repeating tjheir diatribe every day from now till 20120 so US have changed this and labour must swifty change the
parliamentary rules in siut, so this crap from Natonal stops so we can “change” this country as labour Coalition was voted in to do.
US stop it through parliamentary procedure known as cloture, or Rule 22.
https://www.thoughtco.com/filibuster-rules-of-the-us-senate-3368318
HOW FILIBUSTERS END
Filibusters rules allow the delay tactic to go on for hours or even days. The only way to force the end of a filibuster is through parliamentary procedure known as cloture, or Rule 22. Once cloture is used, debate is limited to 30 additional hours of debate on the given topic.
Why didn’t the coalition make sure they had the numbers
What a colossal screw up
Why didn’t the coalition make sure they had the numbers
What a colossal screw up?
ANSWER;
Because they who are behind Jacinda were incompetent.
Jacinda should have had ‘top level STRATEGISTS & advisors next to her on her very first day as national did warn us all that theywere going to be an ‘effective” opposition she should have acted desisively then days before the parliament opened.
I hope she gets now the expert assitance to combat her fuckup now while her term and 100 days has just begun.
JACINDA;
Buy the best “strategist you can jacinda even if you place a request to us all for financal help.
Our futures are all at stake now that we are all weakened by National tricking you to accepting their terms to place more National control on the important “select committee” process.
Given Bridges and the nats bullshitted their way to agreement about the make up of the select committees, isn’t there a way Labour can come back and tell them to get stuffed? If the government had the numbers then surely this removes the basis of the agreement? That agreement isn’t a contract in the normal sense, it can’t be binding in any way. If I were the Labour-led government I’d renege on the select committee numbers deal because it’s based on a falsehood. Bridges and his lying bullshitting bunch of deadheads should be told to lump it.
I hope the new government pass legislation under urgency nipping National in the bud, just like the National government did to circumvent the opposition.
Well, there lies a challenge, for the government parties. They need to mobilise their own supporters and voters, to back the bills they present and send to Select Committee.
Having created social media databases, gathered contacts, Labour, Greens and NZ First have the means to do so.
Why lament and be filled with anger, when a more constructive approach may solve the challenge.
We know how the Nats ignored hundreds to thousands, large majority submissions against their proposed laws and law changes pushed through Select Committee.
This government can avoid doing something similar by mobilising its own support base, and showing, we have more, or at least as many submissions in favour of what we want to do.
Templates for submissions to be filed can be shared via social media, prior to Committee hearings.
The only trouble will be, getting people off their backsides, and take action. Those supporting the Nats are often better resourced and will defend their privileged property and other ‘rights’.
It is time to organise, to build a power base that once were the unions, that kept Labour alive. Get cracking and stop moaning.
One word: urgency. Leave the oppo out of it altogether. Worked for them.
Yes Roy is corract here,
leave national way clear of any changes we need you to make now labour as you have only a certain time to achieve the promises made by you to “change the country to a fairer, kinder, inclussive, transperant warmer government.
National have changed all methodology of government operations now and you need to reverse all those hard edged methods all government agencies operate under so the whole system needs to be restored to the system used before national took over in 2008.
KEEP NATIONAL RIGHT OUT OF ANY MOVE NOW AS LABOUR COALITION HAS MANY CHANGES TO MAKE NOW AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE THE WHOLE STRUCTURE WE ARE UNDER HAS BEEN SEEDED WITH NATIONAL POLICY THAT IS KILLING MANY.
BEGIN BY DISMANTLING (MBIE) STEVEN JOYCE’S MINISTRY OF EVERYTHING. WHICH IS THE NERVE CENTRE OF NATIONAL GOVERNMENT POLICY.
Did you just say the Nats were worse than the Nazis?
Time to give it up old man…
There is no way Ms Adern will allow this type of cock up to occur again.
The looks she was giving the wankers opposite and her own colleagues chilled me to the bone.
Ardern needs to pull the pin on the select committee numbers agreement. It was based on a misconception of the facts so can’t stand. The vote for the speaker can’t be undone, but the agreement at the base of the nat vote can. Ardern needs to look into this. National’s membership of the select committees will otherwise be founded upon an untruth, most probably a lie.
Agree with Chris here,
labour must use judicury now like Democrats did to stop Trump in his tracks to wipe every rule away.
“Despite doing more to erode democracy over the last 10 years than Nazi Germany ever managed against us in World War 2”
Going to need some clarification on this one…
Clarification? look no further than the incomparable no right turn.
Chew on this @Waitwat
http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/search?q=urgency
Sorry Martyn how can you say this is not democracy when National is just trying to represent the 44% that voted for them. Being the largest party by fair in govt and not in power gives them power, and they have every right to use it as they see fit.
You can’t on one hand say that MMP is all about getting the numbers together (which it totally is) but the numbers now don’t matter
@ BG It is their attitude that is the issue and size isn’t everything. The one true legacy of John Key’s tenure as leader of NZ is the continuing contempt for democracy , the rule of law, and the right of the people to fair and just representation. Behaving like maladjusted whining lying brats is not the the standard I expect of our political representatives whose salaries I pay as a taxpayer. National are utter shits. Shallow, lazy ignorant nasty useless liars. Incompetent administrators and lower than a snake’s arse. They deserve no respect at any time from any New Zealander.
100% Shona, well said.
“the right of the people to fair and just representation.” Aren’t they representing 44% of NZ Voters? What is not far about that.
I understand your hatred but to shut them up because ‘I don’t like them.’ means you want to dismiss democratic opposition entirely.
As I said Labour cannot complain that National are using their numbers against them. Labour played the game of MMP (as was correct) but in doing that they must have realised that the opposition (at 44%) was going to be very strong, and they need to just suck it up.
Is Labour actually National lite?
Surely they knew this was going to be the first thing off the block and made sure they had the numbers before commencing.
Now they are signing a TPP with bugger all changes. People’s party seems a fallacy now.
Voters are not silly. If they see National purposefully side-lining legislation through being petty and difficult, they will suffer with a drop in support at the next election.
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