People calling for National to be the Government because they got most Party vote don’t understand MMP

By
Martyn Bradbury
-
71
3

Brothers and Sisters – those saying that National got the most Party votes and so they should be the Government do not understand how our democracy works. It doesn’t matter that you got the largest Party vote, what matters is if you can get 51% in Parliament, if you can’t do that, then you can’t pass legislation. Allowing a Party that doesn’t command a majority in the legislative chamber to pass laws isn’t called a democracy, that’s Fascism – those calling for National to be the Government are actually arguing for a One Party Police State.

The gross ignorance exposed of our MMP system by so many, including Lefties who seem to have gone into a deep depression despite NZF+Lab+Green being the majority, isn’t the blame of the citizens, it’s the blame of Governments  that had a vested interest in  keeping their electorate stupid.

The specials counted in 2 weeks will give Labour + Greens an extra MP each, which would change the NZF-Lab-Green majority from 61 to 63.

61 is a bare majority which doesn’t provide stability, but 63 is a working majority. This election isn’t over yet, hyperventilating calls for National to just assume Government and start passing laws without a Parliamentary majority should at first be discarded as the howling of idiots but if that howling gets louder and louder over the next two weeks, then it needs to be identified for what it is, fascists who want to destabilise our democracy.

Don’t be a fascist, allow our trusted systems to process a final result and allow the time for Political Parties to negotiate in good faith for the best Government they can negotiate and if you hate the result then punish the buggers in 3 years time.

If you are a progressive, if you voted Labour, Green or NZ First, then start contacting all the NZ First MPs including Winston via social media and respectfully tell them what you think they should do.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

 

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71 COMMENTS

  1. Sorry Martyn, Winston can count. Two in partnership is better than three. A NZF/LAB/GRN agreement will only result in the Greens getting shanked again.

    • You’re wrong Michael. Winston has a very long memory and while the Greens have attacked him for years (Russel Norman) he’ll be aware of the Natz hit-job with the recent over-payment ‘scandle’. He’ll also be aware that previous Natz coalition partners have vanished into oblivion. As a one-man party WP will also be aware that his survival at next election will be with Labour because there is no way Natz will win in 2020.

    • in that case how come the 4 headed monster coalition the nats ran for the last 3 terms survived under your better best never thinking

  2. ‘This election isn’t over yet, hyperventilating calls for National to just assume Government and start passing laws without a Parliamentary majority should at first be discarded as the howling of idiots’

    Good call tere Martyn,

    The media have begun to brainwash us all with the “Corporate media wash” spin that the National Party must become the next Government.

    Bullshit!!!!!

    National have sold us down the drty poluted rivers and we are far poorer now than nine years ago as we owned all our public paid taxpayer assets but this evil National Government have just squandered and sold most off now.

    Yes to sending our thoughts we have sent our email yesterday yesterday to laboour/NZ First/Green party’s yesterday already and strongly advise all other do the same as these Parties all needto hear your wishes before they decide.

    • “as we owned all our public paid taxpayer assets but this evil National Government have just squandered and sold most off now.

      Odd memory indeed. Labour sold of lots and lots of taxpayer owned assets. They started this shit.

      • Michael you have a short memory dont you?

        2005 Labour bought all NZ rail back, 2008 Labour bought back rail rollling stock locos and all buildings including engineering workshops so guess who has almost sold it all off again? Yes your national Government, asame with state housing and almost everything else is gone or now “in transfer level as soon as they find a buyer now the election is over.

        Dont bullshit us, – it is bad for all NZ.

      • Just a couple of points , however,…

        Adern is not of the Roger Douglas generation and by attrition , many of those formerly involved have either retired of left the party , of those that remain , their power is dwindling.

        The other point is with a Lab / Green / NZ First scenario , both the Greens and NZ First are against asset sales , – particularly NZ First.

        • The majority of Kiwis are against asset sales.

          The referendum was ignored. Kiwis don’t count.

          The TNC investor state rulz

      • It’s not a Labour / National thing any longer; it hasn’t been for decades. It’s a Left Wing / Right Wing struggle, that has now become a class war, thanks to the last 9 years. We’re in danger of becoming a 1990s Britain… It’s all up to NZF now.

    • ‘This election isn’t over yet,” or as Hone Harawera succinctly put it when he saw the writing on the wall in his electorate, “it aint over till Paula Bennett sings”( i had tears of laughter for 5 minutes).

      Yes, the media are fornicating over themselves with calls of “moral” duty of Winston going with the highest polling policy. What the media fail to recognise is that morals went out the door when Key came along and even catholic Bill succumbed to immorality when he was up against the wall and well Joyce is the epitome of “Dirty Politics”. All of which, transfers across to governmental power and complete lack of empathy for over half the population of N.Z.

    • +100 CLEANGREEN…New Zealanders voted to get Nactional OUT….and when the rest of the special votes are counted….a Labour , NZF, Green coalition will be the obvious choice

      It could be a Power House coalition!

      Of course there will have to be some give and take …some concessions made ….but it could be a MIGHTY WIN WIN WIN for each of the coalition Parties !

    • Approximately 54 to 57% of voters did not back National.

      The disillusioned who did not vote or even register, did not back National either.

      Compulsory voting may have changed the picture radically.

  3. I think we all need to be positive we all know how hard it was going to be when we were up against the very rich and powerful (and greedy)
    MMP has worked the gnats didn’t get the 51 they needed. Now lets all be thankful for this. We have the specials yet to be counted lets be positive again and believe 2 more seats could make a huge difference to which side Winstone chooses to go with. I for one am very proud of our Maori people for making a stand even if it comes at a costs to us. We as a people have shown we are resilient as we are use to going without, we are use to being treated poorly but we still fight to the end even when we know we are up against it. Lets be positive.

  4. I think Winston Peters isn’t obliged to form a government with the party that got the most votes because he has a moral obligation to do so.

    However, if he personally does think he has a moral obligation to do so, then that is his prerogative.

    • Winston is the leader of well functioning political party. The members of which are mostly in their 50’s 60’s 70’s and 80’s. It is not Winston’s decision alone. It is the party’s decision. He will consult, there is a re process it will be followed. He wants the party to survive.He will make the call that is best for NZ. He knows it isn’t about him. He has nothing to prove . He has done that over and over and over again. i hope he teases and tortures the nasty Natz for a good two weeks.Then drops them into a pile of poo of their own making. Hosking might have an aneurysm from the pressure(here’s hoping)

    • Has he said this?…I thought it was National saying this about moral obligation to go with party with most votes…(and under MMP this is not true)

      Winston Peters has said he is open to a coalition which best suits the interests of NZF voters

  5. Mike Hosking has got his panties in a bunch over at Granny Herald, calling Peters a “hostage taker.” He bemoans that Peters, with such a small percentage of votes, can hold power, but conveniently forgets how ACT and UF, with less than 1% each, held the deciding votes during the last 9 years. So it’s not a matter of people understanding how MMP works – They do – They’re just pissed off that it might work for the other team.

    • Richard we all know why Winston’s party has a bill to convert our “public media” truly back into a fully operational “public service” and not a commercial corporation as is now, so then Mr Hoskings will be fired pronto.

      Same thing NZF will do for Kiwirail, take it away from a bussiness unit, as that has been setup to fail with bad national stooges in snoir management deliberately planted to wind rail services down for the express benefit of roading interests.

      Read NZF Broadcasting policy,& Transport.

      • Can you please name the stooges in Kiwi rail management? For the record please. Or did you just make that up? You do not know the qualifications of the management team?

        • L0L !,- YOU again , … weren’t you recently banned over at The Standard for basic stupidity , srylands ?

          Yes ,… yes you were in fact …. for quite a long period if I remember correctly,… Sooo,… you’ve decided to come to TDB to get your fix on being a troll, now , have you?

        • NZ Rail management is absolutely useless, Fay Richwhite & Co asset stripped NZ Rail and the current management is running what’s left of it into the ground ?

        • Stylands never contributes anything.. does little else but ask dumb questions. AMWAY 101..’He who asks the questions controls the conversation.’

        • Slylands – how sly like your ‘ominious’ name you are.

          I have for 17yrs trying to work with all rail owners from Tranzrail beginning in 2000 as they went into bankrupry our group helped their top managementt out, arranging funding by several East Coast Ciouncils to ‘chip in $250 000 each for three yrs untl they get back on their feet.

          By 2005 it was sold to Australian (mostly) road freight company ‘Toll’ and then our NGO began working with their new management team, to increase services and patronage, then for three yrs.

          finally we were witnessing toll was asset stripping the rail infrustructure until our committee met several times with Michael Cullen and evenually asked him to buy the rail asset back!!!!

          And after several meetings Michael bought the track first, (2005) then in 2008 with Aunty Helen bought the rest.

          You ask me if I have made this up???????????

          You are an offesive brat aren’t you, a ‘low life’ so go back to your road freight paymasters.

          Leave us to restore the country for the good of all.

      • I come from a family of roading engineers. I know all about the correlation between them and National, and their unfailing loyalty, even to the industry that then turned and took everything they’d ever worked for. My family are an excellent display of Stockholm syndrome at its worst.

    • Yes, right wingers now decide that it is time to do do things morally, or should I say, when it’s convenient for them.

    • and two of those 3 coalition partners with national for the last 9 years have been dealt to via Tamati’s win and the incredible pressure put on Dunne by social media over the years finally cracked the worm farmer

        • Well , you know what they say in neo liberal circles,… if a business / individual under-performs its through a process of natural attrition that they fail to make way for those that can succeed… now , I hate to have to remind you , but Hosking is then receiving ‘corporate welfare’ ,- payed for by the taxpayer.

          Not very neo liberal of Hosking , is it?

          Seems he even fails in that basic tenet of his own bullshit ideological beliefs …

    • Exactly! Look how many bills were passed 51 to 50 in the last nine years, one Tory seat advantage holding the country to ransom…

  6. Bill English said that they had the moral right to govern. That was the most outrageous thing I heard yesterday, as if any sense of morality is left with them after their despicably deceitful campaign. They know the public can be lied to with ease, and as such are irrelevant.

    Anything the National Party says is now void, they’ve been pretty open about that.

  7. The slogan “strong and stable government” repeated excessively, coupled with a sense of entitlement suggests how sensitive and insecure those of that persuasion are.

    • I agree they have been a selfish “strong and stable government” but well here’a another slogan, ” weak and unstable country”.

  8. Question remains, what can a Labour – NZ First – Greens government really achieve? While there may be some achievements, it will be difficult to bring together NZ First and Greens, in my view.

    And contacting Winston and others in NZ First, well good luck. In reality, the Greens would be the weakest partner in a three party arrangement, and they may struggle to get back into Parliament in 2020, should they disappoint their now smaller voter base.

    Also may Winston retire after these three years ahead of him, and NZ First may also not be back. That would mean Labour would need to pick up many more votes in 2020, to win, while the Nats may still hold out strong, especially if they stay in opposition.

    There are many things to consider, and Labour, tied up with NZ First, may not have such a great performance to show by 2020, as NZ First is not really progressive, is it?

    • Labour/Greens/NZF need to demonstrate they can operate as a mature constructive Government otherwise NZ as we know it is F#$%ed ?

      • +100 …TAMATI TAUTUHI….if they are not seen in action and in command they have let the opportunity go to make a real difference

        1.)…one of the first things they should do is ensure civics education in secondary schools and enroll all New Zealander 16 year olds on the roll

        ( imo voting should be compulsory next Election)

        2.)…there needs to be statistics on who owns what in New Zealand…New Zealanders need to know how much of their land and housing and assets ( eg water and public utilities and primary and export industries ) are now in foreign ownership and control ….and this includes all foreign ownership hiding behind Company and Trust structures

        …Nactional has kept this well hidden from New Zealanders …knowledge is power and the Nacts have deliberately kept New Zealanders in the dark

        …Regarding foreign ownership and control it is only through this statistical and big data knowledge that a government by New Zealanders and for New Zealanders can plan and take action and take back our sovereignty

  9. I think Chris Trotter is right. Extra seats from specials won’t bridge the gap. Whether Jacinda Adern should concede is up to her, but she ran a good campaign. I agree that people don’t get MMP.

  11. NZ First, Labour and Greens need to form a coalition together to make the election’s themselves free and fair!

    Under National corruption has been on the rise and it is unlikely that they will get another chance because Natz are just getting more and more corrupt with each term. Who would have thought lying was acceptable in an election? No wonder people don’t bother with MSM anymore. It’s just propaganda.

    Even the right wingers have cottoned on that Herald is just propaganda, adds and click bait these days.

    • +100 SAVENZ….this coalition is probably the last chance New Zealanders have for claiming back an egalitarian sovereign democratic New Zealand for New Zealanders

      ….the Nactional Government was selling New Zealanders down the drain at an alarming rate

    • Please provide time series information that shows that corruption is on the rise. Otherwise it is just you making things up as usual.

      • How about you provide irrefutable evidence that it isn’t.

        Oh ,… and that includes data sources INDEPENDENT of the National party ie : sources that come from NGO’s , – and perhaps we could kick that all off by such as THIS :

        “Tax Haven” structures risk damage to well being – Scoop NZ
        http://www.scoop.co.nz › Politics

        Panama papers: NZ trusts at the centre of Malta money scandal …
        http://www.stuff.co.nz/…/nz-trusts-at-the-centre-of-malta-money-scandal-mossack-fonseca-pa...

        And I’m sure you will find much , much more ,… to your ultimate chagrin and dismay…

        • Wild Katipo don’t forget the 450 texts and the redacted police report (the todd barclay saga)
          Oh! and then there is the 11.5 million Saudi sheep deal (no deal) with no legal advice from MFAT
          Hey maybe that is the 11.5 million hole they were talking
          about

      • “Please provide time series information”

        I’ll assume you mean “some serious information.”

        Please provide some coherent dialogue. Otherwise it is just you writing like a child.

  13. More on Chris Trotter:

    “”Look at who you would be denying if you went with Labour and the Greens assuming you are Winston. Because these just aren’t any 46 per cent these are the most powerful people in the country.

    “These are the people who owns things, the people who run things, the people who say things and expect people to do things and pretty damn quickly. To take 46 per cent and say sorry were going to ignore you – that’s a pretty big thing to do.”

    So a Govt has to pander to the most powerful 46 % people in the country and yet National ignored the other 54 %, do they not count?
    In essence, you are saying we can’t upset the status quo, yet no thought was given, whatsoever, when allowing National to cripple the 54% of the country over the past 9 years

    • I suspect Trotter has been wined and dined too much by Newshub and co. He cherishes the Sauvignon Blanc, same as the odd red one, and perhaps a glass of champagne, to wash down that nice bit of cracker with lots of caviar on it.

      Do not bite the hand that feeds you, comes to mind.

  14. Good post.

    And for me ?

    100% Labour / Green / NZ First all the way.

    This would be the beginning of a new era of creative , democratic and dynamic innovation that this country has not witnessed in literally decades.

    And , – it would also provide a mighty legacy for Peters for the restoration of not only our social democracy , – but the start of the expulsion of neo liberalism from our political / economic processes.

  15. there are two actions that are now vital for Labour and the Greens ….they must negotiate vigorously and publicly with Winston…and they must not form a government with NZ First.

    The first action will ensure that the maximum wind back of Nationals policies will occur and the second will ensure that Labour and Green are not tainted by the inevitable disaster such a mismatch of policy objectives will provide( let’s hope the time is used productively)….with an economy on the brink and conflicting agendas the best place is waiting in the wings….for a likely early election when the proverbial hits the fan.

  16. Disagree, Labour, Greens and Peters have the seats and they’re only going to increase once the specials come in. If there is an outpouring of love/support from the grass-roots public towards Peters to back a red-black-green Government, the Left will be in.

    Peters has negotiated many MMP deals and that skill set should be considered an advantage given Labour’s time out of government. The oldies want a change of government too and have voted in Winston as their insurance policy to represent their interests as the ‘times are a changing’.

    I think Winston is cool, it’s a shame he has to suffer so much elder abuse in parliament. He reminds me of the ‘Howard Lyman’ character from The Good Wife – their is an episode addressing ageism head-on, featuring a story line that brought sensitivity training to the fictional Lockhart, Agos and Lee law firm. Worth a watch: The Good Wife s07e05

  17. I thought at the time when National leaked details of the pension over-payment that it didn’t make any sense as they would prob need NZ First for a coalition govt.
    How could they have been so stupid?
    The lack of foresight seems staggering or were they just that blinded by their love affair with ‘dirty politics’?

  18. we keep hearing suggestions for the Greens to go into coalition with the Nats.

    Make no mistake, that would destroy the Greens as effectively as it destroyed the Maori Party.

    Of course, maybe that’s the secret agenda here??

  19. Labour and the Greens wanted to change the government, and New Zealand First has said the same thing….let them get it done! Of course they can work together. To be fearful of all the what if’s….these three parties have this extraordinary and useful opportunity to make changes. I trust they will figure out a way to do that. I give them my trust.

  21. It amazes me the numbers of people bleating over Facebook about how the election didn’t give them the government they wanted so they immediately blame the system – MMP.
    FACT: Whatever the voting system you have your side is going to lose some day unless you live in an African republic, Russia or ex-soviet Republic.
    OPINION: MMP is better than FPP but preferential voting is better. The anti PV lobby immediately starts whingeing about how complicated it is but a form of PV called Single Transferable Vote (STV) has successfully operated in local body elections for the last decade.
    I would welcome any debate about our voting system, but not based purely on the moans of uninformed redneck who don’t like losing.

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