Did Russia hack the American election and how far are liberals prepared to go for a civil war?



Did Russia hack the Democrats and drip feed that information to wikileaks to impact the US election?

The highly regarded Motherboard says all signs point to Russia, the equally well regarded Jeremy Scahill and Glen Greenwald say no.

Watching Russia and America accuse each other of rigging the election is like two bald men fighting over a comb. Russia has always attempted to influence elections around the world, but the true master of electoral fraud is the CIA. To have America whine about Russia influencing their election when you consider the global ballot boxes the US have manipulated seems churlish.

Some elite liberal commentators have declared that nothing of interest was revealed from the hacks while in the same breath claim it was the media focus on those leaks that impacted the election.

You can’t have it both ways.

I think the leaks were damaging in that they showed the gross level of abuse the Democratic establishment went to kill off Bernie Sanders candidacy. The Democratic nomination process was rigged in that it was always Hillary who the establishment wanted.

Did that eventually have an impact on the final result, well no I don’t think it did. Trump didn’t squeeze out a win because Bernie Sander supporters didn’t vote for Clinton, Trump won  an unblinkingly astounding victory because he resonated with white working class American’s who have been damaged by neoliberalism and free market globalisation.

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This simple, grim truth, that white working American’s rejected Clinton’s free market economics is something liberals in America are grappling to comprehend and accept. Instead of blaming themselves for putting forward a neoliberal establishment figure who was simply going to continue with a failed free market globalisation agenda, they have blamed almost everything else for the shock Trump win.

It’s because Trump voters are racist (despite those same voters voting for Obama twice before)

It’s because Trump voters are sexist (despite over 50% of white women voting for Trump).

It’s because Trump voters are rich (despite 50% of union families voting for Trump).

Then it was Bernie Sanders, the FBI, voter fraud and now it’s Russia.

The truth is that it was a deeply racist vote cleansing system that eliminates black voters and the working white poor walking away from the promise of globalisation that ended Clinton. This desperate attempt to find anything other than their own failed candidate selection, structurally racist electoral processes (which have been around for decades) and the white working poor rejecting  neoliberalism risks dooming Democrats into a self righteous irrelevance.

So how far are Liberals in America prepared to go to stop Trump? Rather than pausing to appreciate how Democrats failed, they are focused on attempting to rip away any legitimacy Trump will have when inaugurated.

That is a dangerous path.

The millions and millions of Americans who voted for Trump will not allow their leader to be destabilised and disrespected and I fear angry protests will simply cement those voters into voting for Trump again in 4 years.

I despise Donald Trump. I think he is a fascist and his current selection for Cabinet is a ghoulish carnival of right wing mutant circus freaks whose capacity for stupidity matches their ability for evil.

Trump must be fought every day of his 4 year term, but that battle can only begin once Democrats understand why they lost the election this year and smug cultural elitism and cosmopolitan arrogance will only serve to enrage Trump’s base and risk dangerous destabilisation.

How far are liberals prepared to go for a civil war?


  1. Jeremy Scahill and Glen Greenwald are right as they now have identified that it was a leak from inside the CIA, and not generated by the Russians that exposed the leak.

    It appears that the CIA are covertly trying to start a war with Russia, so we need to be very aware of the CIA as they have done this before many times over in the past remember the Iran CIA Contra drug running deal http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/index.html

    Then the Bay of pigs CIA cold war invasion?

    These guys are pure thugs nothing more.

    Makes the Russians look like choir boys.

  2. William Binney has said the leaks came from within USA intelligence and not Russia:

    ‘Intelligence Officer Who Personally Met the Democratic Email Leaker Confirms Leaker Is with AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE Services’

    …“In other words, Russia did not hack the Democratic party emails. Instead, an American intelligence whistleblower leaked them.”…


  3. The world is being run by the armaments industry and they are now pulling out every stop they can to generate business so they will try to start a major war with a major power soon so it is simply all about profit not principals.

    • Too true. Hillary was their main chance for war. Now the share prices of the big US armament companies are sliding.
      Israel must be pissed off too. A lack of peace would have been an advantage to them because they develop and manufacture the anti-personnel weapons for many the world’s fascist “peace keepers”.

      What a lot of sick bastards.

      • Too true. Hillary was their main chance for war. Now the share prices of the big US armament companies are sliding.

        I wouldn’t be putting my faith in Trump either, Groucho. Trump was elected on a platform of a massive military build-up for the American Empire;

        President-elect Donald Trump on Tuesday officially announced plans to nominate retired Marine Gen. James Mattis as Defense Secretary, touting him as a man who “plays no games.”

        Mattis, Trump declared, is “the living embodiment of the Marine Corps motto semper fidelis, always faithful. And the American people are fortunate a man of this character and integrity will now be the civilian leader atop of the Department of Defense.”

        Mattis stood alongside Trump as he made the announcement and was met with scattered dog barks from a favorable crowd that cheered the pick. In praising Mattis, Trump mentioned his role leading forces in Iraq and during the Gulf War, saying of Mattis’ performance in the latter, “that’s the way you’re supposed to lead it — no games.”

        “Mad Dog Mattis plays no games,” Trump added.


        Trump’s decision has been met with enthusiasm from Republicans, who view the tough-talking Marine general as an experienced, thoughtful and hawkish choice for the role. He’s considered a hardliner on Iran and is sure to appeal to Trump’s supporters who see his pledge to rip up the Iran deal as a key priority.


        Trump opened his speech — at an arena just miles from Fort Bragg military base — with a rundown of his plans to rebuild the military, reign in military involvement in foreign conflicts and reform the VA.

        The U.S. will “stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about that we shouldn’t be involved with — instead our focus must be defeating terrorism and destroying ISIS, and we will.”

        Trump also said the U.S. military wouldn’t be “depleted” anymore, telling the crowd he’d ask Congress to eliminate the sequestration budget caps on defense spending.

        “All men and women in uniform will have the supplies, support, equipment, training services, medical care and resources they need to get the job done incredibly well and perfectly,” Trump pledged

        ref: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/latest-post-election-rally-trump-officially-announces-mattis-lays-out-n692851

        So Trump sayshe will “stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about that we shouldn’t be involved with — instead our focus must be defeating terrorism and destroying ISIS, and we will” – but will “focus on defeating terrorism”?

        That is disturbing when one is reminded that Trump views Iran as a state-sponsor of “terrorism”;

        Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump is focusing on Iran as he delivers a highly-anticipated foreign policy speech in Washington.

        Trump tells a gathering of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee: “Iran is the biggest sponsor of terrorism around the world.”


        Trump is also slamming the United Nations. He says the group is “not a friend” of democracy, freedom, the United States or Israel.

        He says he would veto any attempt by the UN to impose its will on the Jewish state.

        ref: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/trump-calls-iran-biggest-sponsor-of-terrorism-in-aipac-speech/

        So Trump won’t engage in “toppling foreign regimes”; will focus on “terrorism; and views Iran as “the biggest sponsor of terrorism around the world”.

        Trump’s agenda is plain to see. It just requires people to sit up and take notice…

  4. Martyn, you made some excellent points there.

    In the final analysis people voted for Trump because Hillary represented ‘business as usual’ and just as you said, ‘business as usual’ isn’t working for middle America.

    The vote was also a middle finger to the progressive liberal establishment with their 3rd wave feminism, LBGTQ, trigger points, safe spaces and BLM. People are sick and tired of PC.

    As regards Russian hacking, who cares who did the hack? If they were offering the truth, its source is irrelevant. This is a classic ‘ad hominem’ fallacy.

    All told I think the Podesta tapes did far greater damage: They laid bare of the arrogance and criminality of the Democrats and their Teamster buddies.

  5. Regarding the false Russian hacking /leaking story it is argued that this has NOT come from the CIA but from anonymous sources ( friends of Clinton and intent on rolling Trump) without proof …and the msm ( Washington Post and NYP )is buying into these anonymous false pretend CIA sources without proof ( so much for fake msm news!).

    Here is Lionel:

    ‘CIA/FBI Say No Evidence of Russian Hacking, Electors Seek Unconstitutional Election Coup’


  6. America has been a blight upon this planet since Americans abandoned important principles of the Revolutionary War in the mid-1800s and began building a global empire. The blight got much worse once American corporations began using Bernays to promote everything that is bad for the sake of a fast buck in the 1920s.

    There was a small window of opportunity for America to escape from its death spiral in the 1960s, but the forces of fascism that characterize the REAL America crushed the movement for change. And America has now gone almost completely insane -hardly surprising when you look at the idiotic culture and the toxic ‘food’ most Americans ingest- and is in its death throes, thrashing around like a drunk who is hallucinating.

    Stand well away in the short term and try enjoy the show because there is nothing anyone can do at this late stage: the American way of life -which the Americans managed to export to much of the world- is going to take everyone down with it via financial, energetic and environmental collapse.

    By the way, with its relatively low population, huge area, sophisticated weapons, and hardy people, Russia is likely to one of the ‘last men standing’.

  7. Fake news and Russia hacking are both bs narratives of the sort which losers rarely fail to reach for when it’s easier than facing the real reasons they lost.

    Mark Ames, as always, has done the research and dished the dirt on the peddlers of the ‘fake news’ meme:


    Note: Ames was kicked out of Russia for satirical stories and no-bs coverage of local news which embarrassed public officials one time too many, and was part of the team which originally revealed that the Tea Party movement was a Koch-funded astroturf enterprise. This led to a brutal flame war between Ames and Andrew Breitbart, which only really ended when Breitbart’s coke overdose took him out of the game, so he’s managed to piss off most of the leading protagonists on both sides of this story.

    • Obfuscation.

      I am sorry C.J. but how can we take this site seriously when 9 out of 10 stories
      in the most read column are all Trump bashing and 1 on Bernie Sanders.

      Nothing about the Clinton Crime Family. ie;No balance at all.

      There are many Alt-Media sites on the Internet that ‘pose as truthers’
      ie;Controlled Opposition.

      If you read carefully between the lines in the ‘about’ etc you should be able
      to see it.

      I am pretty sure the bit about Andrew Breitbart is not true either.



      • There are many Alt-Media sites on the Internet that ‘pose as truthers’
        ie;Controlled Opposition.

        How can you tell who is “controlled opposition” and who is “alt media”? When you can’t tell the difference, Iain, you’ve travelled past the Twilight Zone and into Paranoia Land.

        The thing about “alt media” is that it relies on half-truths, innuendo, guilt-by-association, and some outright fabrications. In many respects “alt media” and state sponsored propaganda (eg; Iraq possessing WMDs) are indistinguishable and inter-changeable.

        • Frank;

          “How can you tell who is “controlled opposition” and who is “alt media”? When you can’t tell the difference……”

          That is a very good question,Frank.
          And I beg to differ in that you CAN tell the difference.

          I agree that some people may not see the difference and why they
          have to rush to the comment section (if there is any) but if you
          are of reasonable intellect and not blinded by this Left/Right thing
          or tribal/faction oriented and have an open mind it becomes
          relatively easy once you have established a few parameters.

          When I finally obtained my computer once I had stopped work
          a friend gave me a site called ‘D-Program’ (don’t know if still exist)
          but had some both good and bad links (soon learned) by finding
          Webster Tarpley, Globalresearch and Alex Jones.
          My initial reaction to Jones was he was a nutter and must be some
          sort of psy-op.

          But by extensive reading of Tarpley,a top geo-political expert, and
          matching up with Global Research it took me a few months to
          realize Jones knew his stuff.Just had to get past his Texas persona.

          My point being that once you establish a benchmark of whats true,
          then you can add some and delete some (lead down the garden
          path a few times) and slowly build up genuine sites and authors.

          I have done this for well over 6yrs and did not take long to find
          that MSM was full of deception,lies and propaganda,so that not to
          trust any of it.
          And the biggest shock for me was to find out the Universe was
          driven by electro-magnetism,NOT gravity.
          Further,that TPTB have had their boot on the throat of science
          for a 100yrs. They know.

          Cutting things short, once you find;
          1.TPTB run an agenda/program.

          2.They fund/control both sides of most conflicts/politics.(world wars)

          3.They control the financial system and it’s all rigged/manipulated.

          4.Control education and media dissemination.

          5.Control most religious faiths.

          And to quote you,Frank;
          “The thing about “alt media” is that it relies on half-truths, innuendo, guilt-by-association, and some outright fabrications.”
          We have just confirmed,in a spectacular manner,with America’s
          election,that this is what MSM does.

          Conspiracy Theory was the old ploy(stopped working) and now to
          try and resurrect themselves they are on to Fake News.(Helena)
          And now they have started to censor/restrict.

          Your Iraq example of WMD was picked up by intel and relayed to
          Gvt that it was not true (warning on 9/11 as well) but fell on deaf
          ears. MSM said otherwise and supported the ideology.

          Trusted Alt-media told the truth to be confirmed at later date after
          all the damage was done.

          So the key is TRUSTED ALT-MEDIA SITES.

          And thats a starter list I have already given you.


      • Yes Iain, Alternet is a left wing site, but it is spot on with connecting Prop or Not with Ukranian neo nazis. I guess for some on the alt right this is a problem because they flirt with fascism (while claiming to be all about liberty and libertarian personal freedom the next minute), and also because they want to believe that Prop or Not and the fake news meme was from Soros rather than the deep state.

        I remember Breitbart’s death when it happened – he was in the middle of his Koch sponsored smear campaign against Ames for revealing them as the bag men behind the Tea Party. At the time he was rumoured to have been a coke fiend (as well as a Koch fiend). Check him out just days before he OD’d in the video below – clearly losing control of his mental stability due to being high as a kite all the time (also a heavy red wine drinker)


        On balance, I am still glad that Clinton lost because she is a warmonger with a strategic boner for war with Putin, but I can’t abide fascism. And while you note that Alternet is one sided, how do things usually look from over at Breitbart?

        • C.J;

          ‘Left’ and ‘Right’ is now redundant to me. The Paradigm Shift.

          Todays battle is between Nation States and Globalists.

          If we could all realize this we may not have the scenes in your link.
          But these mobs are NOT grass roots protests.
          Like ‘Black lives Matter’, they are funded and guided by the TPTB
          that use the age old strategy of Divide and Conquer.

          There is nothing wrong with being ‘Left’. I voted Labour most of
          my life until I woke up they are both progressing the same agenda
          which is that of the Globalists/TPTB.

          Same with the ‘Left’ site you describe. But when there is no balance
          AT ALL,with obvious lies, it becomes just Propaganda so you can
          not believe any of it.

          No offence intended.


          • Actually I would agree with you on the nationalist/globalist dichotomy. I still subscribe to the policies of the left as being generally the most advantageous to the nation, but I would find a right winger who cares about the country a potential ally ahead of a ‘left’ liberal-globalist who serves elite objectives.

            Personally, I pick and choose. Mark Ames only appears now and then at AlterNet – many of their authors are the sort of deluded liberal-globalists whose work is of no value to me, but Ames is a bloodhound when it comes to sniffing out astroturf politics, no matter who is doing it. He’s been on the anti-Clinton left for as long as I’ve known his work too, which is a plus, and ‘Pelosi Liberal’ was as much of an insult as ‘chicken hawk’ on his old site. Also, well before those on the right were using the term ‘libtard’ to describe liberals, he was using the term ‘libertard’ to describe phoney libertarians using the ideology as a smoke screen for big money politics. He also used the term ‘islamofacist’ for Wahabbi movements while most on the left were still too afraid of being labelled islamophobes for doing so.

            • C.J.;

              Thank you much to take the time with a well worded,
              honest reply.

              Webster Tarpley taught me to always keep an eye out
              for the man ‘acting under left cover.’ He is a ‘lefty’.

              It would also apply to articles and websites,I presume,
              to help us navigate and make sense of the vast amount of info available.

              ie;You want to know who they are,where they come
              from and who they might represent with funding etc.

              Your man Mark Ames,if what you say is correct,
              certainly does not fit this description. In fact it seems
              as if he would be at home with the http://dailycaller.com/
              This might illustrate my points above in last reply.

              I only found out recently that the Daily Caller is a
              Left leaning Foundation. (Tarpley I knew all along.)

              But it is one of the sites Hillary wanted shut down.!
              And it is on the 200 list of Fake News sites put out
              recently.( RT was on the list too so we can see the joke.)
              It is also on my list of trusted Alt-Media sites.(Frank 1st Nov.)

              That’s a good example of it does not matter whether
              a site (or people) are ‘Left’ or ‘Right’ more than what
              they are saying is true. ie; prepared to speak ‘Truth to
              Power’ when necessary.

              Paul Joseph Watson of Prison Planet (and Infowars)
              regularly links to articles from them and they have
              ‘Broken’ many a story. (See my reply to Frank above)

              That’s how I built my list. The ones you trust can
              lead to more.(always look at the ‘about’ column.)

              Supports my decision in being non-partisan and the
              most important credential is whether the site can be
              TRUSTED or NOT.

              So thanks once again for your reply,appreciated.
              And to give me the opportunity to clarify.


              Merry Xmas etc, And since it is NZ’s Summer Solstice’
              22nd Dec 2016:
              “May the Abundance of Nature fall apon You.”

  8. Trump has indeed had it both ways on the Clinton email scandal – the smear was conducted by an official organ – the FBI – but the evidence such as it was will never be tested in court. Obama should have thrown Comey in Guantanamo – Comey changed the result of the election by exceeding his powers. Police and FBI do not release details of a case prior to prosecution.

    Clinton did not lose on the factual content of her emails, but on the hysteria that was whipped up about them. Russia was involved in that and Trump even invited them to become more involved.

    Clinton is not nice people – but Putin is responsible for the genocide that killed half the Chechen population. He runs a single party state and routinely murders reporters. The recrudesence of Russian militarism is nothing to celebrate.

    • Only difference then is that Bill Clinton’s political soulmate Boris Yeltsin tried and failed to kill half of Chechnya, while Volodya took over did it good and proper. The Clinton tendency to back losers and big noters coupled with their smarting resentment of anyone who puts the work in to win confirmed once more.

    • In a cold war the first casualty id the truth.

      The US is very good at Propaganda and making false cold wars it seems.

  9. CIA funded Chechen rebel groups. Same blueprint for Ukraine and Middle East. Wherever there is war and conflict look for Clinton, Black Ops, CIA and their propaganda tools – MSM. Old ploy if it’ truth call it a “conspiracy theory”. New ploy if it’s truth call it “fake news”.

  10. From the horses mouth:

    ‘Former UK Ambassador Says Source Of Clinton Emails Was “Disgusted” Democratic Whistleblower’


    …”the continued ability of the mainstream media to claim the leaks lost Clinton the election because of “Russia”, while still never acknowledging the truths the leaks reveal, is Kafkaesque.

    It is terrible that the prime conduit for this paranoid nonsense is a once great newspaper, the Washington Post, which far from investigating executive power, now is a sounding board for totally evidence free anonymous source briefing of utter bullshit from the executive.

    The worst thing about all this is that it is aimed at promoting further conflict with Russia. This puts everyone in danger for the sake of more profits for the arms and security industries – including of course bigger budgets for the CIA. As thankfully the four year agony of Aleppo comes swiftly to a close today, the Saudi and US armed and trained ISIS forces counter by moving to retake Palmyra. This game kills people, on a massive scale, and goes on and on.”

  11. Instead of focusing on and pointing fingers at the alleged unethical and criminal people and countries why not dig deeper and learn who is really behind the scenes and in control of most govts. and the media and the banks – etc.

    Most worldwide economies are collapsing so who really cares that about mostly rigged elections and who will control the U.S. Let us expose and focus on the tyrannical psychopaths secretly in charge and making decisions and perpetual war plans that affect us all. They need to be exposed and brought to justice as the world banks are collapsing; weather weaponry ( Haarp etc. ) is destroying the worlds land and seas and economies. Debt increases and so many are suffering and businesses folding and the environments being devastated meanwhile many world leaders ; psychopathic bankers and corporate criminal elitists are running for cover as they are being exposed and prosecuted.

    Let us focus on the REAL causes and culprits of such unrest and injustice.

  12. Why am I still not given the opportunity to edit my comments and why do you feel the need to hold back my comments instead of publishing them immediately while you await approval ? I have asked this previously and received no reply. Can you please change this and allow me the choice to either edit or delete my comment just after submitting it.

  13. Martyn;

    Thanks for the balanced analysis on the subject at hand.
    Even with the small deviation about Trump at the end,overall it was excellent.

    In my opinion, you/others are wrong about Trump and if he makes it(30 days is a long time) I am sure he will prove himself even with MSM ‘blasting away.’

    But lets put this ‘Russian Hacking’ to bed with one of the top experts we can get.

    “Did Russia hack the Democrats and drip feed that information to wikileaks to impact the US election?” The answer is NO.

    “Some elite liberal commentators have declared that nothing of interest was revealed from the hacks.”? The answer is YES.

    Dr Steve Pieczenik MD. Phd. http://stevepieczenik.com/about/
    “I have informally worked with certain elements of our military intelligence across the IC spectrum to use alt-media sources to expose the massive criminal behavior of the Clintons-past, present and future.”
    “As a way of counter-acting the Clinton’s silent coup of corruption, these brave men and women of the IC have released a series of emails through Julian Assange and Wiki-Leaks which underscore the Clintons’ massive corruption attempts to take over our USG through the rigged electoral system.”

    “A moment in history is taking place.”

    “The 2nd American Revolution Has Been Won!”

    “This is what we DON’T want!”


    “To Hack or Not to Hack??”

    Quiet disturbing with the Judge towards the end.

    Finally, A MOST HISTORIC EPISODE: At least watch to 1.30hr.
    “Full Show – The Russian Hack Fake News Story Is Last Gasp Of Dying MSM – 12/13/2016”

    Martyn. If you keep up with Pieczenik’s website, you/others should change your minds.


    The MSM is dead.

  14. ‘DNC docs were leaked, not hacked, intelligence veterans say’


    “Anonymous allegations that Russian government hackers interfered with the US elections are “evidence-free,” several retired intelligence professionals argued in an open letter. Any hack would have been noticed by the NSA, which has stayed silent, they say.

    Last Friday, the New York Times and the Washington Post cited anonymous sources claiming the CIA believed Russia was behind hackers who exposed emails and documents from the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair John Podesta, with the intent of aiding the campaign of Donald Trump. Several Democratic senators have called for a special investigation into the allegations, while Trump dismissed it as a “conspiracy theory.”

    …With the CIA depending on NSA for communications intelligence, “it remains something of a mystery why the media is being fed strange stories about hacking that have no basis in fact,” the veteran intelligence officials wrote.The letter was signed by retired NSA technical director and whistleblower William Binney, former Senator and counterintelligence agent Mike Gravel, former CIA intelligence officer Larry Johnson, former CIA and military intelligence analyst Ray McGovern, retired CIA intelligence officer Elizabeth Murray, and former NSA SIGINT analyst Kirk Wiebe.”

    • Chooky;

      Your link is such a BOMBSHELL it’s worth repeating with his commentary and
      bigger print.


      The work of TPTB/Globalists right before our very eyes.!!

      Same program as the other Colour Revolutions only this one is Purple.

      Watch for players wearing purple. eg;Hillary already has done so, with Bills tie to match. The Bastards.

      Historical Times. It’s hard to believe.

      Micheal Moore(rat) is calling for mass protests on Inauguration Day. 20th Jan 2017.
      Unions are sending out the memo nationwide to amass as well. Plus rest of
      Soros paid groups/goons.

      This day will be the last chance to stop the Trump Administration before they start to dismantle the Globalist’s infrastructure.Could well start with the CIA.

      If it gets that far,expect violence, all ready to go.!
      The last thing they want is good relations/peace with Russia. Sanctions lifted.

      Only Alt-media could give us a view this close up, Exciting!!.


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