Up until now most progressive Americans have been backing the “lesser evil” in the US presidential contest. They don’t particularly like Hillary Clinton’s establishment politics but they’ve been scared into her camp because Donald Trump is so terrible.
Many of these progressives were Bernie Sanders supporters, some of whom are now moving to the Green candidate Jill Stein. They will feel more comfortable voting for Stein now the Trump campaign imploding and Hillary Clinton a sure bet. In most states (outside the “battleground” states) voting for a third party candidate like Stein does not affect the final result. If you are living in New York, California or Massachusetts, where Clinton has a massive lead, voting for Stein is any easy option for those who don’t like Clinton’s conservatism. Stein polls better in such states. A recent New York poll (NBC, 26 September) put her on 5%.
Of course, Jill Stein suffers from minimal coverage in the mainstream media but some of the alternative media are taking her seriously. Democracy Now’s video streaming of the latest Trump/Clinton debate was enlivened by inserting after each segment comments from the Green candidate.
Stein said that “the American people have very serious issues before us, and we need to get past this debate over whether Hillary or Donald is more corrupt, who has the more offensive history.”
She pointed out that one of the leading candidates “represents the billionaire class, the other candidate represents the donors—or, I should say, her donors represent that billionaire class.” She talked about “transformative solutions” including an “emergency jobs program” to address climate change and create “20 million good-wage jobs to transform our economy to 100 percent clean, renewable energy, a healthy and sustainable food system, and public transportation which is efficiently and renewably powered, and restoring our ecosystems.” Like Bernie Sanders she advocated “medicare-for-all”.
Funding for such needed programmes was held up because “almost half of your income taxes are going to this massive Defense Department, which is not really not a Defense Department, it is an offense department,” she said, noting that “the Obama administration is now bombing seven countries.” Stein challenged the hawkish approach Clinton took during the debate, including her proposal for a no-fly zone over Syria: “To present a no-fly zone here as a solution is extremely dangerous. A no-fly zone means we are going to war with Russia.” She noted that Clinton had “led the charge into Libya and created that catastrophe, which led to the release of huge stockpiles of arms and incredible violence and catastrophic situation in Libya, all of which helped fan the flames in Syria.”
The Green candidate was looking beyond the election and saw her campaign helping build “a strong movement and a strong political voice to that movement to continue fighting against this rule by the economic and political elite that both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump represent.” She was optimistic about the prospects for progressive change, even when the presidency leaves a lot to be desired. Stein recalled the movement successes even under such a regressive president as Richard Nixon: “under this terrible president, we achieved bringing the troops home from Vietnam, women’s right to choose, the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, protections for workers in the workplace, because we, the people, were standing up and leading the charge towards the kinds of policies that we actually deserve. It’s important for us to lead with the politics of courage. The politics of fear, unfortunately, has delivered everything we were afraid of.”
‘She talked about “transformative solutions” including an “emergency jobs program” to address climate change and create “20 million good-wage jobs to transform our economy to 100 percent clean, renewable energy, a healthy and sustainable food system, and public transportation which is efficiently and renewably powered, and restoring our ecosystems.”
That all sounds meritorious. Unfortunately that agenda is physically impossible within the framework of anything that remotely resembles present economic-social arrangements or current population levels.
For a start, there is no such thing as ‘100 percent clean, renewable energy’, except that derived from photosynthesis -effectively wood or dung. Everything else is a sub-set of the fossil fuel economy.
‘public transportation which is efficiently and renewably powered’
Would that be wooden barges towed by horses, and wooden carriages pulled by horses? Perhaps a few mule trains and camel trains? Alpacas and llamas as appropriate? Anything made of metal via fossil fuels or powered by electricity is neither efficient nor renewable.
The fact is, the progress trap was set and triggered more than 200 years ago, and there’s no way out at this late stage in the game. All we can say is that if all these issues that needed to be dealt with had been dealt with in the late 1960s, when they were clearly identified, we may have stood a chance.
But not now, Keith. Far too much sequesterd carbon has been burned and the human population is in very severe overshoot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_R._Catton,_Jr.
Jill Stein will not mention any of that. Nor will anyone in the NZ Green Party.
The difficult aspect is to come to terms with the fact that there is no hope within the framework of current political-economic-social arrangements, and almost no one is prepared to abandon them. Indeed, billions of people around the world have been conned into aspiring for a life of fossil-fuel-facilitated consumerism.
Now at 402 and headed for 450. Then 500.
https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/co2_800k.png
And there is NO POLITICAL WILL to do anything about any of it.
There is no personal will either. I agree with what you’re saying, but in order to achieve what you’re pointing out here, there would need to be a mass exodus from supporting the current systems, towards agrarian, land-based, extremely materially simplified lifestyles. Outside of a very very tiny *actual* handful of activists, and a few traditionalist indigenous peoples, no one is willing to let go of the comforts and pleasures of “progress”. There are very small pockets of utopian activists who talk about such things, but the reality is they tend to be excellent at fantasizing up kumbaya fantasy worlds where everything is honky-dory and under control, and demonstrate zero interest in actually getting their hands dirty – literally – with the reality.
I don’t condemn Stein, or Sanders for that matter, for their positions on such matters – they’re sticking their necks out far more than most, and that’s still better than nothing. But I agree in that the political – and personal – will required needs to be far, far more ambitious.
Political will mostly only comes from the bottom – from individuals, from me and you, doing things on the ground. Right-wing politicians just feed off the ignorance of the general population. Some politicians might unify progressives, as Sanders largely did, but he was only able to do so due to a critical mass of disenfranchised populations. In my view, the Left is almost always a reaction to right-wing politics undermining itself. What you’re talking about is just way out. And those who would choose such a path would probably get branded as terrorists, have their land taken from them, and/or bombed by drones. But I agree with what you’ve said. But for me, it can only come from individuals, creating a mass movement – and if such a thing should reach enough of a critical mass, a politician such as Stein might get on board.
It’s a good thing that your opinion is totally insignificant Andy, otherwise I imagine you’d regret omitting that; the allegations against Bill Clinton have no legal standing, and your assertion is thus defamatory. I can likewise refer to Trump as an alleged rapist, as well as an self confessed adulterer, sexpest, andlikely serial assaulter of women.
http://www.salon.com/2016/10/09/the-clintons-christian-marriage-the-staggering-evangelical-hypocrisy-over-hillarys-refusal-to-divorce-bill/
I’m only partway through that Democracy Now “expanded debate”, even with skipping through much of the Clinton/ Trump sections. It’s not that it its bad, but two hours is a long watch!
I think I’d vote for Stein myself if I was a US citizen in a non-borderline state (in which case, I’d vote against Trump; preferring evil to crazy). I think it has consequences for funding and debate presence in the next election, but can’t give a link on that.
I prefer crazy over evil every time, but given two choices, I take the third…
Strypey
Unfortunately it’s; Crazy & Evil vs Vanilla Evil. If it was just straight crazy then I could see your point.
Unfortunately, the US is locked into a two-horse race with it’s antiquated, first-past-the-post system.
If they had STV or Preferential Voting, a case could definitely be made for voting as foillows;
[1] Jill Stein
[2] Bernie Sanders (write-in)
[3] Hillary Clinton
[4] Donald “Grab’em by their Genitals” Trump
But FPP makes no such allowances and US voters are stuck with a two-horse race. Ms Stein’s influence could only put a racist, misogynistic bully into the White House.
Looking at the crowds that support Trump, and hearing that he can get about 40 percent of the votes, no matter what nasty attacks he may throw at Hillary and others, I think that Jill Stein is a lone voice in a desert of common sense.
She seems to be a bit like a prophet of ancient times, who can see the light and what dooms on humanity if people do not change behaviour. But we learn that such prophets were often driven out of communities into the lonely desert or into the mountains, to seek refuge.
The US is such a commercialised and still largely too poorly informed, insufficiently enlightened country (the population that is), too few will understand what is necessary to happen, and vote for such a progressive candidate. And there are not enough grassroots supporters and possible candidates in many parts of the US, which means Congress and the Senate will continue to be the home of many fossil age heads.
Massive changes are needed very soon for the US to be saved from self destruction, same as most of the rest of the planet, I seen the 5 percent polls as proof of what an uphill battle Greens in the US still face. Time is running out fast for solutions, but look at what we have as leading candidates, it is truly a kind of disaster.
I couldn’t agree more with you Mike(and afewknow…).Mike your description of the US reminded me of NZ…..sad eh?
Well, with all the shopping malls, suburbia connected with wide roads and highways to the rest of cities and the country, fast food franchise outlets everywhere, probably the Golden Arches having a ration per population similar to the US, and the obsession with cars and petrol, we are simply not much else but a kind of CLONE of the US, are we not?
The only difference is a law, a political system, and some other bits, that tie us to a former colonial power based on the edges of Europe, and migrant stock that still largely originated in much of Europe, and that has a slightly different history to the US, where they rather shot and took the land off the natives, while here they offered a fake “treaty”, to make it look a little “tidier”.
All else are trivial matters, I fear, not much difference, really.
Mike, the people you refer to are called Cassandras, after the mythological Trojan Cassandra, daughter or Priam, who had the god-given gift of prophesy and the curse of not being believed by those she warned; thus she was driven mad by those around her who refused to accept her wisdom. In some version of the myth she was locked up for speaking the truth no one wanted to hear.
Ugo Bardi, the Italian Chemistry professor who highlighted peak oil back in the days when The Oil Drum and Energy Bulletin were still running calls his website Cassandra’s Legacy.
Most people in NZ are so dumbed-down and stupid, uninterested in the health of the planet or even their own health, they adopt and celebrate every stupid invention or cultural idiocy that comes out of America, e.g. Americarna -an annual celebration of ruination of the environment via oversized gas-guzzlers is enthusiastically endorsed by NPDC. (It’s all about filling beds in hotels and motels, and bums on seats in bars and restaurants, of course, and bugger the future -literally.)
A decade ago I prophesied, rather tongue in cheek at the time, that the last programme to be broadcast before on television before the screens in NZ go blank will be motor racing. The level of idiocy we now witness in NZ suggests that prophesy may well come true.
Hope for a miracle – Jill Klein makes president and restore some sort of respect, peace and decency to America.
What a choice!!!
A racist misogynistic bigoted demagogue vs a puppet of Wall Street. Congratulations America, this is what you have been reduced to.
I feel like it’s been April Fools Day for the last six months!
Chin up, Guy Fawke’s Day is coming up, perhaps some reason to feel “inspired” for alternative action?
That anyone would either turn up to a rally, or endure two HOURS of listening to spite, bile, lies and venom… See, children, what a culture of movies and tv will do to the average voter. Be warned.
Meanwhile an Aussie Green labelled the charismatic Mr Trump as a slug.
I see what he means: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gardening/gardeningadvice/9570862/Slimy-and-savage-the-Spanish-slug.html
Were I an American I would not vote for Dr Stein. She has too much of the playground sneak about her. Elizabeth Warren looked to be the better fighter. Bernie reminded people to be at least half way decent instead of hiring people with the resilience to trawl through the bottom of an over-ripe long drop for smut.
Donkeys and elephants. Hard-working and honest beasts. What awfulness did they do to be used as symbols for impolite politics?
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