I have to be honest, the more Turkey responds harshly to the attempted coup, the more convinced I am that the Coup was either faked or another failed CIA operation.
The speed with which Erdogan blamed long time political opponent, CIA asset and multi-billionaire cleric Fethullah Gülen was as fast as Gülen blaming Erdogan of staging fake coup.
Gülen is a curious character, he runs the largest chain of Charter School’s in America and his closeness to the Bill Gates Foundation suggests a very well connected American asset.
Whether the CIA were behind the failed coup is neither here no there right now though as Erdogan starts a crack down that is now beyond any legitimacy…
Thousands of Turkey coup prisoners ‘raped, starved and hogtied’
Amnesty International says it has ‘credible evidence’ Turkish police are holding detainees, denying them food, water and medical treatment and in the worst cases some have been subjected to severe beatings and torture
…tens of thousands arrested, no trials. This is looking like a cleansing and the rise of a Theocracy rather than a legitimate response to treason.
Where Turkey may have once wanted to be involved with the EU, I think Erdogan’s aim now is to create his own religious state and he’s using this failed coup as a chance to eliminate secularists.
This has the potential to birth a new authoritarian Islamic regime, if the CIA were foolish enough to have started this, it will be just another example (like Iran) of failed interventions that have blown up in America’s face.
Yes , I think you are moving along the right channels in your conclusions there , Mr Bradbury …
There is a Jewish guy called Jonathan Cahn , who , among other things is also a supposed Rabbi – but also a born again christian … quite an extraordinary character. That aside , knowing Biblical history , and interpreting the symbolic nature and what they were intended to represent correctly, has stated also that Turkey ultimately will form the hub of a united Islamic 10 nation theocracy.
The interesting thing is juxtaposing it with history and modern events , and quoting Erdogan as wanting to do just that , it seems Cahn is right on the money. And a look at the modern advanced state of the Turkish military shows they are no backwards nation without the means to be a formidable opponent as well.
Cahn and Biblical things aside – it seems possible that we just might see the beginnings of that united confederacy . It will be interesting to see if this does happen and if events are shaping up to its creation. Only time will tell.
My take on this is, that Erdogan and his AK Party had already a plan to purge the armed forces, the judiciary, teaching profession and administration in general, but that opponents got news of it, hence some decided to try a coup d’etat.
As that one failed, Erdogan and his supporters in government and in the population are now going ahead full force with what had already been drawn up and was lying in their drawers (e.g. lists of named persons).
They want to destroy any significant opposition to their islamisation of Turkey Erdogan style (him dreaming of becoming a historic figure that future generations will adore for centuries). It is a mixture of conservative islamists working with a power hungry, vain politician at the helm, who distrusts others, is a bit paranoid and is fast becoming a control freak.
I doubt the CIA and Pentagon had any role here, as the whole Mid East region is so volatile and unstable, they could not have risked a coup that could go wrong, as it did. As we see the relationship between Turkey and the US is at a new low, as a result.
Yes it is tragic. Ataturk will be turning in his grave – Turkey as a secular State had real promise. It would appear that that is all over and Erdogans gradation from secular democracy to islamic dictatorship is all but complete.
Yes, it is a puzzling situation. But why would the CIA want to topple Erdogan?At first i thought it was Turkey’s “deep state” at work, but it seems not. Gulen apparently holds to a moderate and tolerant version of Islam. How was he a threat, if he was?
From what I have read this is why it is not puzzling at all. Erdogan had made concessions towards reestablishing a relationship with Russia. A relationship that had been on the rocks since the Turkish airforce downed a Russian jet.Interestingly the pilot involved was also involved in the coup attempt suggesting the CIA’s influence in both these events. He had also altered his policy towards Syria. Both of these moves were because of the Russian and Syrian success in Syria and the failure of the USA in its pretend fight against ISIS. He could see which way the wind was blowing and he could also see that Turkey would never be allowed into the EU.
The Turkish economy will now benefit from the return of Russian Tourists and also the resumption of the proposed South Stream gas pipeline from Russia to Turkey.
I am sure the Russians will be very cautious about Erdogan who seems untrustworthy ruthless and motivated by enhancing his own power. He has flip flopped one time to many for the CIA who appear to have bought forward coup plans as Erdogan got wind of them. Hence it was rather poorly carried out.
More reading:
http://thesaker.is/major-developments-in-syria-and-turkey/
Russia is not that strong an economy, and Russia and Turkey have over history been at loggerheads so much more often, than they have been at peace.
Hence I see little validity in thinking that Erdogan will seriously ally himself with Russia and with that give up the NATO alliance membership, which offers it much more strategic benefits.
The US may not be happy, the Europeans will not be happy with what goes on in Turkey under Erdogan and his AK party government, but they will grudgingly put up with it, same as they have put up with the Egyptian military taking over power again after the brief time the Muslim Brotherhood was in government there.
Turkey is too crucial for the US and west to be left out of the equation, and also is Turkey too dependent on links to the west, for them to break up.
Russian tourism may be important, but so are tourists from the rest of Europe. But tourism alone will not keep Turkey alive and growing.
Erdogan is simply using a “God given” opportunity to silence his opponents. Why would he sack or lock up teachers and administrators, they will hardly have been instrumental in a military coup, which failed.
And with doing this, of course he will ensure Gulen and his supporters do also get “neutralised” or taken out.
yes it will be interesting to see which way the wind blows in the near future. By the way Russia’s economy is not as bad as has been made out by WEstern media. There is also a big gasline that both RUssia and TUrkey may benefit from.
thanx…very interesting link
So are you saying that it was planned? That it would happen when Erdogan was on holiday. Miraculously and heroically he addressed the nation over his phone and lo, the people did come forth into the streets and bashed up the soldiers a treat…. that some soldiers were set up in the process… as an excuse for a purge? So Erdogan could go after people who were outspoken or who he had a bit of dirt on. So we would be toast, our opinionated group of bloggers and readers here on the daily blog would all be silenced. If it was in our country. I heard something like 20,000 teachers and academics. Feck.
Yes Martin
A couple of points to note though.
If you take active part in a bid to overthrow the state using violence, what do you expect should it fail? Surely an all or nothing gamble, no?
Furthermore this was a military coup against an elected government (and an army that was fully part of NATO).
Turkey carries the memory of military coups and resulting dictatatorships. Given what we know from history, should the army in Turkey have succeeded in in overthrowing the Erdogan regime, the dominant colour in the photo fronting your article would have been red – blood red.
Turkey has been (mostly) a stabilizing influence in the Middle East until recent times. But now the chaos unleashed by Mr Bush & lickspittle Blair in Iraq is spreading. The Bosphorous is but a narrow strait between Asia and Europe.
This mess is only just beginning to unfold.
Gulan is pro USA .
This discussion is interesting…seems like it is a geopolitical shift away from the West and USA towards Assad and the East..ie Russia.
Turkey always was in a difficult and pivotal position between East and West…and the attempted coup probably pro USA ( some of the coup plotters had brought down the Russian plane), even organised indirectly by USA would seem to have swung democratically elected Erdogan and his supporters the other way
‘Erdogan’s Turkey’
https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/352637-turkey-post-coup-policy/
Post-coup attempt realities: With Turkish President Erdogan firmly in control, he has demanded a cleansing of the military and many social institutions. What kind of Turkey does he intend to create? And will Turkey’s foreign policy change?
CrossTalking with Martin Jay, Yunus Soner, and Daniel Faraci.
Read Dmitri Orlov cluborlov.com on this a few days since. Dmitri dont care!
Steve King: “Gulen apparently holds to a moderate and tolerant version of Islam. How was he a threat, if he was?”
These may help explain:
http://thesaker.is/the-new-middle-east-exit-america-enter-russia/
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/07/russia-and-kemalists-played-major-role.html
http://thesaker.is/major-developments-in-syria-and-turkey/
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/07/turkish-foreign-minister-military-from.html
At first, we thought that the coup was a reassertion by the army of secularism. But events since make sense only if viewed through the lens of the above articles. We’ve found that it’s necessary to look beyond msm if one wants to know what’s really going on elsewhere in the world.
Gulen is an Islamist (as is Erdogan, of course) but he has a more internationalist perspective – as it was described to me. Which is diplomatic-speak for characterising him as a CIA tool.
When news of the coup first came through, the initial American reaction was to call for stability, which is tantamount to supporting the coup, while the initial Russian reaction was to urge that there be no bloodshed, which was implicitly against the coup plotters. Coups Washington doesn’t approve attract loud complaints and travel bans, not calls for stability and continuity.
I’ve been closely following what has been happening in Turkey for quite a while. It is a country a huge amount of attention should be focused on. Erdogan is attempting to consolidate his power, but what he is in fact doing is breaking up the Turkish state as you will never be able to divide the Turks from the Kurds, and the Islamists from the secularists. It’s like a body trying to remove some of its vital organs. Impossible. Journalist Robert Fisk now places it in the same category as other failed states in the Middle East
Robert Fisk – “Turkey’s coup may have failed – but history shows it won’t be long before another one succeeds”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/turkey-coup-erdogan-ankara-istanbul-military-army-turkey-s-coup-may-have-failed-but-history-shows-a7140521.html
Independent
Turkey coup: Conspiracy theorists claim power grab attempt was faked by Erdogan
Social media users claim Erdogan will use the attempted coup in the same way Hitler used the Reichstag Fire to suppress all opposition
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/turkey-coup-conspiracy-theory-erdogan-military-gift-from-god-soldiers-istanbul-a7140516.html
So are you suggesting that it was a set up? Planned for when Erdogan was on holiday….. a few soldiers get set up in the process….. Erdogan dramatically and heroically addresses the nation via his phone… and yea the people did come forth and did bash up the soldiers who had been set up…. in order that they could have a crackdown. I heard something like 20,000 teachers and academics.
As supporting evidence, see this:
https://off-guardian.org/2016/07/28/what-is-fethulla-gulen/
For those of you leery of news sources originating in Russia – suspecting them of peddling propaganda – this article is well worth a read. Note the reference to Brazil right at the very end of the article. We’ve been suspicious for some time about what’s been happening in Brazil, especially the impeachment of Dilma Rousseff. The modus operandi is right out of the traditional CIA playbook for South America.
Cock-up or conspiracy? In lieu of hard evidence, and going by the human predilection for screwing things up – I’ll go with the cock-up. Mixed with a truckload of cynical opportunism, and I’ve no doubt Erdogan is simply exploiting the Keystone Cops Coup for his own advantage.
Erdogan should tread warily though. The next coup might not be so inept and he could find himself weighed down in the Meditteranean, as fish tucker.
With regard to the Off-Guardian article, the dry run concept is hard to swallow – if you stage your coup and fail, how will you stage another now that the President is clearing the state apparatus of all of his enemies, right down to the cleaning lady who didn’t wish him a happy birthday?
We think this was the real thing. Probably sez to plotters: don’t partner up with CIA. Their days of being able to organise efficiently are long gone. We don’t think they have the chance of another run at it.
The more likely explanation for the Turkish coup is that the plotters thought they were about to be compromised and put their plan into action earlier than they had meant to: it smacks of lack of organisation.
Most of the troops involved denying knowledge is entirely credible – the conspirators hadn’t had time to psychologicallly prepare their soldiers for what was needed, and said soldiers wilted when confronted with hostile civilians.The emergency committee’s coup against Gorbachev had the same problem – people asked the soldiers on the streets what they were doing and they honestly didn’t know. In that scenario it’s extremely demoralising to have crowds jeering at you.
Possibly alongside that, there was misinterpretation by the plotters of nature of the contemporary political environment in Turkey. CIA aren’t Turks, Gulen hasn’t lived there for a long time and is out of touch, senior army figures not necessarily tuned into grassroots views. If they were panicked into precipitate action before they were completely ready, it would be interesting to know what caused that. Or who…
goe-political is whats happening here these conflicts are happening in Russia and Turkey backyards not in America boarders so it’s in Moscow and Ankara best interest to form a peaceful relationship in the best interest of their peoples and the safety of region
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