Yesterday’s District Court decision that Kim Dotcom should be extradited to the US is not surprising – not because the evidence of copyright infringement was strong but because it would have taken a judge with character and courage to face down the political establishment. It would have taken bravery to tell John Key our laws don’t cover extradition in cases like this and they should file a civil claim on behalf of Hollywood corporates instead.
Instead we had a feeble decision from a judge who bent over backwards for Key and the US. In his decision he confessed to adopting a “liberal interpretation of the Extradition Treaty” in deciding Dotcom should be sent to the US for trial.
It should be a big disappointment for anyone who believes “justice” is decided on the basis of law in cases like this. It isn’t. Far more important is the political and public mood. Judges frequently find ways of interpreting the law or viewing the evidence to suit the prevailing political climate. In this case Neven’s “liberal” interpretation of our extradition treaty has stretched to please the rich and powerful and avoid the difficulties explaining over the summer barbecues why he was siding with Dotcom against John Key, the government, Labour Party, GCSB, US government, FBI, CIA etc .
Whatever one thinks of Dotcom and his uber-capitalist lifestyle his case has underlined the craven behaviour of NZ police and GCSB (for whom the GCSB conducted illegal surveillance of Dotcom) towards the US authorities. That this extended to the District Court today is deeply disappointing.
Let’s hope our higher courts will tell the movie moguls that even if John Key’s gutless government changed our employment law for them and gave them massive tax breaks we still at least have some integrity left in our justice
@ John Minto. Dead right. I agree completely.
As you point out, the super-uber rich L.A. film industry propaganda machine has come to NZ, our sovereign country and a member of the British commonwealth and bullied us into doing their bidding. In this case , coughing up a dodgy German millionaire.
There’s a principle at stake here and Dotcom, or anyone else for that matter, must not be allowed to be removed from NZ under such Corporate U$A directives.
It’s the same principle that lead us to declare we are nuclear free.
Taking a more abstract path on that same principle, we owe it to each other to get rid of jonky. Allowing that little fucker to push us ever harder up against a wall is allowing a bully to throw his limp wrists around at us.
The deeply concerning thing of course is that I don’t see a mechanism that would enable that process to begin. To purge us of The Jonky.
If Will Smith’s threatening to run for President of the U$A if don Trump doesn’t stop Trumpeting then clearly we Kiwi humans should employ an actor to kick start our revolution. I’m thinking Charlize Theron? Instead of spending $26 million on a flag change we give it to Ms Theron to lead a revolution against Corporate Jonky? Wouldn’t that be just about the most funky way of ridding ourselves of the parasite? A U$A invasion I could live with.
Interestingly you are basically implying the Judiciary has been corrupted. That is a strong allegation to make and basically calls in to question ALL legal rulings. I presume you are advocating for reform of the system then are you?
Yes…. a purge of neo liberal sycophants and sold out individuals who either have vested interests in towing the line above their duty of law and order and impartiality or are too cowardly and lacking in integrity to stand up for due democratic processes.
This latest ruling in the Dotcom affair has now demonstrated graphically how deeply entrenched the anti democratic and subversive neo liberal ideology has become in this country.
We are now talking a malignancy.
And that malignancy has reached proportions whereby surveillance of the population, corruption of leadership , govt media compliance and law enforcement has reached intolerable levels.
It has now reared its ugly head in the judiciary and legal systems.
The Dotcom conclusion was politically based and biased in favour of this govts subversive and anti democratic agenda.
Tell me Gosman, ….is any govt that refuses to disclose political debate – and denying even the opposition party’s disclosure to a massive change in this country’s future such as the TTPA is , – the definition of democratic?
You would be a fool with ulterior motives yourself and being deliberately obtuse to deny that it was anything else than anti democratic.
And thusly not even worth taking on board your opinion.
To do so would further weaken what little remains of our anemic democracy under John Key.
WILD KATIPO: I really think you need to get a grip – your post reads like the ravings of a mad man.
In summary not only was their ample evidence to extradite KDC and co-conspirators, there is enough to convict with ease.
By their own admission in their emails, they were involved in a massive criminal conspiracy and sought to hide the fact. They were damned by their own words.
Andrew; says who? it’s all in the interpretation. That’s what judges do – interpret the law. Couldn’t have been that much evidence for the judge to have to take a ‘liberal view’ of the extradition law.
@ANDREW.
You site evidence to ‘ convict with ease’…. however , as usual, – you – along with many other minor player neo liberal adherents only want to hear simplistic lines of reasoning that justify your ideological stance .
You are not interested in either mitigating circumstances , nuances of different language’s cross translations , nor are you interested in admitting to a vested party’s interest’s in slanting a trial against a defendant.
As such , you will readily jump to any ‘supposed evidence’ that supports those political and financially vested interest groups such as Hollywood’s movie moguls that lobbied the FBI to introduce trumped up charges to effect an increase not only in the gravity of those charges – but also leverage those charges to induce a case for extradition.
And yet under OUR SOVEREIGN laws – copyright infringement remains a CIVIL case , not a CRIMINAL case. Therefore there is NO grounds for any such ruling to extradite in this country.
Not that the FBI needed much lobbying – as the Hollywood movie moguls had a large hand in drawing up the terms for the TTPA to be ratified by Congress in the beginning – terms that were secretive and undemocratic from the very outset – and have been readily endorsed without disclosure of those terms ( unilaterally ) by this govt to the exclusion of both opposition party’s and public debate.
Which , – by any supporter of western democratic values – is inherently UNDEMOCRATIC.
And so , we now have a situation whereby these foreign vested interest groups using THEIR country’s laws have used THEIR legal agents in this country , to manipulate , usurp and ride roughshod over our legal processes to their advantage .
And in so doing have chosen to take out of context scant ‘evidence’ such as translations from another language ,(that being of course German ) into English , and in particular those electronic communications deliberately selected at face value to carry the most supposedly incriminating statements .
A case that under this country’s laws would still be deemed a civil case – not a criminal one.
As well … Dotcom , having been granted residency , was automatically given the protective rights as a citizen of this country , – therefore under our SOVEREIGN law ,- if there was indeed a matter offensive to THIS country , he would have been in court on any charges brought by this country’s prosecution – NOT by a foreign power seeking to use OUR legal system BY PROXY to render our SOVEREIGN laws subservient to theirs.
An example of how corrupt this whole affair has been would be the hypothetical situation of an asylum seeker who was granted residency in NZ from a foreign country’s govt – and to which this govt would be impartial and therefore could not only deny requests from that foreign country to extradite that individual , – but also exercise this country’s SOVEREIGN laws to veto any attempt by that foreign power to legally extradite that individual.
But because John Key is intrinsically linked in this whole affair to the very body which drew up the terms of the TTPA – that being the Hollywood Movie industry’s moguls – and because Dotcom and his co-defendants were perceived to challenge the monopolist status of that industry , Key like Judas Iscariot , sold out our very SOVEREIGNTY for thirty pieces of silver and allowed our SOVEREIGN laws to be subservient to a foreign’s powers laws.
And in so doing used Kim Dotcom and his co defendants as the fall guys – THEY became Keys thirty pieces of silver in exchange for the undemocratic signing of the TTPA.
Raving mad , you accuse me of being ? I think not.
Any average layperson like myself can see the issues plainly and clearly for what they are and the blatant underlying motives of those various vested interests behind this court ruling.
Don’t bother replying to Gosman, he’s not here to have constructive dialogue and it’s quite clear that he’s set himself up a nice strawman to waste our time with today.
This Government preaches free trade however this TPPA is completely the opposite, and they definitely do not like the freedom of speach here in NZ with their controls they have enforced over the NZ media.
Gosman – Of course the legal system needs revision. Isn’t it obvious ???
What percentage of the NZ judges are acting unethically and making very wrong decisions and slapping the wrong sentences on people AND LIKELY BEING PAID OF ?
Come on – the prison system also needs a massive overhaul revision and away from the profit making mentality. If we had a good and fair leader, good changes would be happening in the legal system but we have to wait for an awake and ethical leader.
In so many ways, the judiciary system has failed us and not provided justice.
The parole board as well, making some very stupid assumptions and wrong judgments.
This Kim Dotcom case is a clear example of a dysfunctional system providing very little justice or garnishing much support by the citizens of this country.
We see right through the nonsense and Kim was never going to get justice in this kind of a corrupt and ineffective legal system.
Joke – What is tying a hundred greedy and unethical attorneys and judges together with heavy chains and dropping them into the sea ?
Answer – A good start.
The whole system needs a massive overhaul, the Police, the Judiciary
and the Corrections Service is a huge cost to the country and does not produce anything productive for the country.
The professionalism of all three codes needs to be looked, as we need to start producing better outcomes.
A very old joke as well.
Remember the Winebox Enquiry, members of the Judiciary should have been put behind bars for a long time.
You know what that means?
It means that the judge actually broke the law as copyright isn’t in the the extradition treaty we have with the USA. Only parliament has the power to put it in there and they haven’t done so.
Wow, you took that a mile, didn’t you?
He said nothing of the sort.
Yes,….this is the final nail in the coffin as far as Im concerned,.. and underscores what writers on The Daily Blog and The Standard have been saying for so long about this Key govt.
We have NO RIGHT whatsoever now in pointing the finger at Australia in its treatment of New Zealander’s in arbitrarily holding them at Christmas Island indefinitely and then deporting them on often minor crimes.
Kim Dotcom was granted residency in NZ with all the protections that confers. Yet even that was under shady circumstance and for ulterior motives.
The SIS advised Immigration not to grant entry , yet in less than 24 hours reversed that decision. Evidence shows that under direction from Immigration they were compelled to do so. Furthermore , that the directive came from the then Minister of Immigration , Jonathon Coleman.
There was a clandestine meeting between the chief of the NSA and NZ’s top officials showing that this was among other things a meeting planned to entrap Dotcom for extradition. John Campbell hosted an hour long documentary that clearly demonstrated this.
That this chief of the NSA flew in to NZ in the early hours of the morning unannounced with his retinue shows organisation and govt foreknowledge and complicity of purpose.
The head of the NSA simply DOES NOT just joyride into NZ in the early hours of the morning unannounced unless on official engagement . And as Key is /was the one in charge of our SIS and GSCB there was NO WAY on this earth he was NOT informed directly as to the why’s , wherefore’s and just what this was all in aid off. And that INCLUDES Kim Dotcom.
Key is and has been lying to the NZ public.
(Recall also the overriding of NZ’s labour laws regarding our actors unions – and the cushy deals granted with Hollywood moguls by Key – interestingly , it is the Hollywood Motion Picture industry among others that drew up many of the terms of the TTPA which was then put before the US Congress for ratification – DEFINITELY a case for VESTED INTERESTS here .).
I’ve used portions of a former post to highlight some key points. They remain as relevant now as when the events unfolded.
………………………………………………………………………………………
1) Under instruction from the Minster of Immigration the SIS was told to reverse its decision to deny Kim Dotcom entry into NZ.
2) This was done around the time when the chief of the American NSA arrived into this country in the early hours of the morning to meet with high ranking NZ officials . John Campbell ran a programme that clearly demonstrated that the timing and the issue almost certainly was in regard to entrapping Kim Dotcom in NZ for the purposes of extradition to the USA.
3) John Key from a shortlist chose Ian Fletcher for the job of head of the GSCB. Despite more qualified submitter’s for that job , Fletcher was chosen by Key. Key deny’s he even knew Ian Fletcher… yet later admitted they were boyhood friends and that a few hours before Fletcher was chosen they actually had breakfast together. After the police raid on Kim Dotcoms home it was found to have been an illegal operation and Fletcher resigned from the GSCB . To this day Fletcher refuses to discuss details about his role while head of the GSCB.
4) Incidentally …the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry has had an important part in drafting up the foundations of the TTPA deal , which is then submitted to Congress before it was ratified. It was the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry that used the FBI to charge Dotcom with copyright , – and if that wouldn’t pass the criteria for extradition – trumped up charges of criminal money laundering and conspiracy to commit a crime was added. It was the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry that used the copyright law change of 2010 so that copyright infringement became an issue of ‘national security’ … however copyright laws are different in each country and as it is a civil case not a criminal case …and as New Zealand is a sovereign nation …there are no grounds for extradition.
5) It has been established that at the time prior to Dotcoms raid by the NZ police , that 88 people had been illegally spied on by the GSCB. Dotcom was one of them.
6) Because of this fact … John Key moved to have laws amended after the fact. Both in the SIS and the GSCB. One can see quite clearly that it is simply shifting the goal posts to hold the advantage against Dotcom , – whilst still using an illegal former situation to carry out the campaign against Dotcom on behest of the USA’s FBI – who lack jurisdiction in this ‘sovereign’ nation – or are supposed to.
7) At the time of the raid … advise given to the Police Commissioner was that it was legal. It was later found that the warrant for the whole raid was invalid – thus making the raid illegal – as was the surveillance carried out against Dotcom.
8) Breaches of legal protocol and entitlements were denied Dotcom . An example was he was denied access to a phone to contact his lawyers . Later it was found many of the police actions such as impounding his vehicles , freezing his assets and finances and other items was illegal.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………
This is but a small list of the abuses leveled against Kim Dotcom and his colleagues . In this incidence , it is not a criminal case at all but a civil case brought against people by a foreign power in collusion with this govt for geopolitical purposes. In this case , the ultimate motive for this geopolitical co operation was to safeguard the dubious interests of the very group that drafted up the conditions for the TTPA – the Hollywood Movie Industry. And ,- being a civil case – hardly grounds for extradition at all.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Another related set of issues is the manner in which John Key lied to the NZ public about the XKEYSCORE programme.
It was not until it was exposed by The Moment of Truth meeting at the town hall that we learnt that in fact , being part of the 5 eyes spy network , we had indeed been part of the international spy rings surveillance programme.
We leant that there was the XKEYSCORE programme in operation from Edward Snowden – and it was this very data that Glen Greenwald used to not only prove but bring the NSA of America to court – a matter which found that the NSA had indeed been indulging in illegal spying and data collation of the American public.
Before this became public …. John Key labelled Glen Greenwald merely as one of ‘Dotcoms little henchman ‘… a desperate rear guard action to mask and obfuscate the existence of the XKEYSCORE programme. We further learnt that in fact this country has 3 servers dedicated to the 5 eyes spy networks in this country.
After this was made public… John Key even threatened national security by dragging out irrelevant data against the wishes of the SIS to try and validate his lies about there being no mass surveillance… which , – not only were they irrelevant and failed to have the desired effect – only served to force him to admit that yes , – indeed the programme does exist.
Furthermore…that not only do they exist ….but several months later there was apolitical storm with China and several Pacific Island nation over New Zealand’s role on spying on foreign govt’s . It turns out that this country is used to spy on country’s that others such as the USA cannot gain access to. And this includes our biggest Free Trade Agreement partner …..China.
So in conclusion… this sham of a circus of extraditing several individuals on bogus trumped up charges – charges that were ramped up for political purposes and originating in a foreign nation which has no natural jurisdiction on these shores – now demonstrate’s that not only our democratic sovereignty has been affected by this subversive political activity but also our very legal system as well…..particularly when viewed against the backdrop of the type of political dark tactics that have been used in the Dotcom affair.
What we have now witnessed played out in our courts is not about just one individual’s plight …
But is in fact all about we as a sovereign nation , – in that it is more about us and our legal and democratic system in all its totality being put on trial before our very own courts , – and infinitely less about Kim Dotcom.
What we have witnessed today is the slide into the loss of national sovereignty and the subservience to foreign rule. What has now happened to Kim Dotcom has now become the litmus test of that loss of national sovereignty and the gauge informing us of just how far down that road we have let ourselves travel.
If only Labour/Green/Mana/Internet had won the last election. And then Justice Minister Turei could have unilaterally cancelled the extradition treaty with the United States and dismissed all the neolib judges, to be replaced with people sympathetic to the socialist cause. If only.
Like as if John Minto, serial offender, is an expert on the law.
The fact of the matter is that Kim and his co-conspirators are international criminals who have defrauded artists to the tune of tens, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars.
The evidence presented was patently clear they knew what they were doing and how damaging it was to the music industry.
They have a case to answer in the USA.
Back home in NZ, several players on the radical Left and mainstream media took money from Kim in order to try and screw the general election and are dirty by association.
So where are we now: Kim heading to a US federal prison, John Banks exonerated, Nicky waiting for his day in court and National running the country.
The truth will out
“Serial offender”? What are you on about now, Andrew?
About as sickening as it is ignorant – go back to watching Paul Henry for your “data”
Andrew, this is awful trolling, you’d be better off trying this sort of thing at stuff.co.nz where you might be able to start up a good slanging match. Around here most people will just get annoyed at the bordeline fantasy approach you’re taking.
Still I guess the National Party Social Media Respone Team has got to earn it’s keep.
Awful trolling Andrew, that sort of stuff might get you into a good slanging match on stuff.co.nz but most people around here can see through your clumsy attempts to mislead.
Still I guess the National Party Social Media Response Team has to earn it’s keep somehow.
What a load of old codswallop Andrew.
Perhaps, but Nicky’s day in court has been going rather swimmingly so far, don’t you think? Police search deemed “unlawful”, the Greens urging an inquiry into the nature of the police investigation of Hager… it all looks a trifle precarious, especially for Assistant Commissioner Burgess.
As you say, the truth will out.
And illegal downloading has stopped since Megaupload got taken down? No, of course not. There is an allegory there!
Dotcom was never going to be allowed a fair hearing. The NZ judge who was considered ‘the perfect choice’ being an expert in copywrite and Internet was forced out after referring to a tweet about the US.
Quote from the Herald…
“The judge overseeing the Kim Dotcom extradition case has stepped down after making comments suggesting the United States was the “enemy”.
Judge David Harvey surrendered his role in the case after making comments during a copyright discussion at an internet conference.
An internet law expert, Judge Harvey had been considered the perfect choice to hear arguments on whether Dotcom and his Megaupload colleagues should be extradited by the United States to face charges of criminal copyright violation.
The district court’s chief judge Jan-Marie Doogue said Judge Harvey had made the decision to step down from hearing the case.
“He recognises that remarks made in the context of a paper he delivered on copyright law at a recent internet conference could reflect on his impartiality and that the appropriate response is for him to step down from the case.”
The video could not be loaded, either because the server or network failed or because the format is not supported.
Read: Hip-hop star in link to Dotcom case.
Judge Harvey made the comments at NetHui during a conference discussion on copyright and trade talks with the US. He referred to a tweet which had played on a reference to cartoonist Walt Kelly: “We have met the enemy and he is [the] U.S.”
The case, scheduled for March, would now be heard by Judge Nevin Dawson. Judge Dawson has previously heard elements of the case including making the decision to allow the internet giant bail in February after a month in jail.
The case has been bruising since the outset with the judge initially hearing it reprimanded for treatment of media.
It has also seen criticism of the Crown Law Office and the police. The wrong type of restraining order was initially used to seize the cash and assets of the accused. Then the search warrants were ruled invalid because they were too broad, making the search and seizure illegal. It also emerged the FBI had taken evidence back to the US without the knowledge of the police and Crown – and now want to use it to help extradite the Megaupload accused.
Auckland university associate professor Bill Hodge said the case involved new technology arguments in an “antiquated” legal framework argued by talented lawyers. “It is uniquely high stakes.”
He said it was the “case of a lifetime” for Judge Harvey. “He is recognised as one of New Zealand’s experts – not just as a judge but as an expert who has gone into copyright issues.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10820496.
Justice has not been seen to be served.
At least it was only a district court judge who has already said he is taking a ‘“liberal interpretation of the Extradition Treaty” i.e. there is no real law to send Dotcom to the US but the judge has decided to liberally interpret it, to be so ….. WTF?
The whole debacle would never have happened if the Key-led government hadn’t been falling all over themselves to give Dotcom residency in the first place. The Clark-led government were right to refuse him. Key loves sucking up to wealthy people and now it all has backfired. Listening to comment on Jim Mora show The Panel on National Radio yesterday does not suggest that the judge was anything but fair.
Don’t bother with Gooseman or AndrewO they are NatZ molls, and mrs Bulling has rocks in her head if she takes Mora’s panel as factual as most are also NatZ molls too, as Steven (Goebbels) Joyce, has aggressively closed down any public broadcasting speaking out against the National Government administration.
We need to wake up NZ to this Government suppression of our democracy & free speech.
We are in need of informed law comment.The law relating to this extradition case seems gray … nonspecific. It looks like it could have gone either way for Kim – and the nature of the gray area is intriguing. And that’s not even mentioning the main theme -the interface between evolving technology and copyright.There is certainly enough for the case to drag on for a long time … and it’s far from boring.
Buzz Windrip, Dr. MacGoblin and the Minute Men come to Aotearoa. They’re handy with chain saws and ringbarking along with other talents. Hold on to your books especially Spengler. He did say that democracy was merely the political tool of money. Democracy was followed by military dictatorship. He was interesting about machines too, all those years ago. “And these machines become in their forms less and ever less human, more ascetic, mystic, esoteric. They weave the earth over with an infinite web of subtle forces, currents and tensions. Their bodies become ever and more immaterial, ever less noisy.” Prophetic writer. Pity the poor little trolls down ticking all the comments here are unable to read.
Buzz Windrip, Dr. MacGoblin and the Minute Men come to Aotearoa, complete with chain saws and ringbarking along with other talents. Hang on to your books especially Spengler. He did say all those years ago that democracy was merely the political tool of money. Democracy was followed by military dictatorship.
Spengler wrote interestingly about machines. “And these machines become in their forms less and ever less human, more ascetic, mystic, esoteric. They weave the earth over with an infinite web of subtle forces, currents, and tensions. Their bodies become ever more and more immaterial, ever less noisy.” Prophetic
writer. Pity the pathetic little trolls who down tick all the comments here are unable to read.
While the left choose to support the likes of DotCom, the right have nothing to fear.
I’d say there is more to the Right losing an election than just Dotcom…
More like losing credibility. John Key is playing a ‘if we scratch your back, then you can scratch ours’ kinda game. But if Kim Dotcom is extradited and charged in the US, it will have a chilling effect on the NZ IT sector, and internationally NZ will be viewed as corrupt or self-serving, and will receive numerous criticisms by human rights organizations.
You can be sure that the NZ govt will have no credibility when it talks about human rights, and behind the scenes no one will take anything NZ says seriously. Rather they will view NZ as nothing more than a US subject state, and as a result NZ’s positive reputation will slowly wither to nothing.
Of course they believe the economic and political benefits out-way any negatives…but in both, an independent foreign policy is worth more. You can thank John Key for adding NZ to the WW3 target list for Russia and China, and for overall placing NZ in a position where it has to rely on Australia or America for protection. Get the champagne ready, as thanks to John Key NZ is going to burn, rather ‘than freeze with the rest of you’, as David Lange coined it. 😉
Key is a US Corporate lacky/lapdog whatever you want to describe him, he has little or know interest in New Zealanders or their welfare.
He is the dismantling NZ and changing the shape of NZ demographics through social engineering.
$105 Billion Debt he has incurred and guess what it won’t be his problem paying it back, it will be us the taxpayers problem.
Useless!!!
The Right have everything to fear if things keep going as they are.
The Right are always afraid, fear completely frames their worldview.
not from the pathetic opposition
Looks like we are all under 24 hour observation now by the Right, JK is away in Hawaii with 8 diplomatic protection people who is he afraid of? Has he and the State of NZ pissed some people off that badly?
@ Dave – if the right have nothing to fear, how does that explain their dear leader, having msm and very likely the police force dancing to his tune?
Wouldn’t mind also betting the judiciary might be subject to a little “neutralizing” soon, if it hasn’t happened already that is. Particularly with the case of the “prominent NZer” coming up in court next April! FJK was involved with “his man” here, allowing him to still serve, promoting him, being fully aware of what was going down at the time, but choosing to ignore the issue!
FJK is fearful alright, of being exposed for the corrupt charlatan he is and so is the right!
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