Why now, was the question many people asked when the Police announced that every front-line officer would soon have a taser. After all, our violent crime rate has been dropping.
Even though there is now less violence in the community, expect taser use to increase when all front-line Police are issued with the weapon. Expect also to see more inappropriate use.
When tasers were brought in a few years ago, we were told they would only be accessed to prevent physical injury – to the Police, a suspect or a member of the public. .
Now Police often pull out their tasers in essentially non-violent situations, when suspects are challenging their instructions, or delaying an arrest. This was true in the Mark Smillie case, where a Whakatane man was tasered in his own front yard as he argued with the Police. Smillie’s complaint was upheld by the Independent Police Conduct Authority.
The taser is such a frightening weapon that most people comply with police instructions when it is pointed at them. So it is tempting for officers is to present a taser simply when someone is being uncooperative. That may have occurred many times last year: there were 895 occasions when officers pulled out a taser without actually firing it.
Seeing a taser on an officer’s hip, and knowing it can be pulled out at any time, will make people that little bit more wary of Police. That can make it more difficult for Police to get the community cooperation they need to prevent and solve crimes.
I worry about what might happen on political protests when every officer has a taser on his or her hip. If policing of the protest doesn’t go to plan, as it often doesn’t, officers will be tempted to pull out a taser. But this would exacerbate most protest situations, precipitating more problems than it solves.
Finally, we should not forget that tasers are a very dangerous weapon and can kill people: particularly those with dicky hearts. We await the coroner’s report of a Napier man who died in March after being tasered.
The Police boast the low injury rate for tasers. But when there are injuries they can be very serious, and even fatal. Also, let us not forget the psychological trauma suffered by everyone who has 50,000 taser volts pumped through them.
Taser every cop who wants to carry a taser. Call it “training” or “how to behave in a democracy”
They do Taser every cop that carries one – it’s all part of the training.
Is that in the same way that they get beaten with batons, pepper-sprayed and shot with a Glock? Or is this a different fantasy?
My friend who is a cop was trained in the use of pepper spray and tasers. His training group were asked to get pepper sprayed and tasered to see what it would be like. He volunteered both times and said it was horrible. Point being I don’t think they all get tasered/pepper sprayed during training but per group it seems some of them have first hand knowledge of what it is like as they have to volunteer.
Thank you @OTF – and I suspect the ones that actually experience it/them are more circumspect about using them.
The Taser is an excellent tool that saves lives and reduces injuries of both cops and their ‘customers’.
Arresting a violent drunk or drugged offender what alternatives does the cop have?
The Taser – the biggest risk is the offender hurts himself when he falls down. The cop is unlikely to be harmed (the most important point)
A baton – potential broken bones or even life threatening injuries from the use of a baton
A gun – death or life threatening injuries. Potential for innocent bystanders to be hit.
Physical force – Often requires several officers to get a man down, and often results in injuries to either the cops or the offender.
Your choice.
well sure. but the worry is, and it’s quite a valid one, that the taser will be abused by cops being impatient, or bullies, or just cause its fun and funny. i understand that there are are a lot of good cops out there who just want to serve the community, but i also know that there is an awfull lot of cops who are bullies that believe they are a law unto themselves. I have heard first hand accounts of parties being shut down with extreme prejudice by cops, anyone voicing an objection being hosed down with pepper spray, all because one idiot mouthed of to a police officer, I’ve heard stories of unlawfull searches of young womens homes culminating with threats of arrest unless they “answer questions correctly” those questions were along the lines of do you have a boyfriend? and how often do you have sex? i know of one eccentric person, a mother, whose house was raided by cops looking for drugs (she didn’t have any) and held down while a female officer forcibly performed a cavity search. in front of her children. she gave up driving cause every time she went anywhere she would be stopped, breathalised and ticketed for bogus infringements. she was victimised for months by an entire police force in a relatively small rural community. so you will forgive me if i have reservations about cops being armed with “nonlethal” tasers.
I certainly won’t argue that there aren’t bent cops or cops that abuse ‘due process’ because I personally know a couple instances where that happened.
But that debate is a separate one from the Taser issue.
No.
No it’s not separate at all.
This is putting a dangerous weapon in the hands of an organisation which has proven that it cannot be trusted, it is selective on which crimes it chooses to prosecute, it’s members include rapists and abusers.
Not all police. But enough of them for us to be afraid.
And the problem is, those at the top of the organisation show little to zero willingness to address these problems.
They cannot be trusted.
That’s not the point. Baton use has been abused by police; as has physical force, as for guns – don’t even go there. Taser use will be abused.
I’m curious as to how the Police could simply announce they will be carrying tasers all the time with no public discussion and no overt green light from the government. Since when did they have the unilateral right to arm themselves as they so please.
I think the Police actually discussed this with the government and got the okay beforehand. It’s becoming quite clear that the top echelon of the Police and this government are working hand-in-hand.
I am waiting for tasers to become available on the market, for private buyers to buy and use them.
If that may not be legal, I am sure that some people will bring them into New Zealand illegally, sooner or later, so that offenders and also non-offenders may use them, to “defend” themselves against other private individuals, or for that sake also against police officers.
As we can see in the US, once police carry arms as part of their regular uniform and equipment, the people that may break the law tend to arm themselves also.
Prepare for an escalation of the violence we sometimes witness through news reports, and probably less so directly ourselves.
Society is increasingly being desensitivised and become more ruthless, crude, aggressive and brutal, that is what I see more of here in Auckland. Add another million population, so as Len Brown, many in his Council, and some in Wellington want to do, and we can compare ourselves with any other “global city”, with similar levels of crime, social and other problems.
I am really worried about the future, and giving every cop a taser, that will lead to excessive use and abuse. Wait, and we may see such arms used against “unruly” protestors, or other supposed “trouble makers”.
I don’t know anything about the “money game” but the Chinese yuan is in the wings waiting to be crowned the new global reserve currency. Question those in the “game” can answer is what will happen to the NZ economy? We all know our banking institution is a bankrupt clown act with the Swiss Fed Inst of Tech identifying the major Clowns.
Does our bowing, knighting, boot-licking government think we will follow in Greece’s footsteps?
We will riot, rampage. Yeah Nah 😀
I don’t know anything about the “money game” but the Chinese yuan is in the wings waiting to be crowned the new global reserve currency. Question those in the “game” can answer is what will happen to the NZ economy? We all know our banking institution is a bankrupt clown act with the Swiss Fed Inst of Tech identifying the major Clowns.
Does our bowing, knighting, boot-licking government think we will follow in Greece’s footsteps?
We will riot, rampage. Yeah Nah 😀
P.S. Bought a computer in Feb still learning, sometimes get two comments posted saying same thing (bugger) but I have to laugh – best way to go …. Just laugh!!!!at these silly buggers we presently call the government.
I don’t trust the NZ police.
The Louise Nichols and Roastbuster cases proved that my distrust is warranted.
I hate that they’re now armed. I fear they’re moving along the same route as the US police force.
They’re the biggest gang in NZ, and now they’re armed.
It’s disgusting. It’s not democratic. And they’re not getting my bloody cooperation.
Repeat after me, “no comment”. And that’s all I have to say.
It’s my, perhaps paranoid, view that those who are currently invading our country are doing a little forward planning for when the penny finally drops and we Kiwis start to get all uppity.
As you correctly point out @ Keith Locke, giving NZ cops weapons like tasers has nothing at all to do with current domestic affairs. It has everything to do with future proofing police armies who will be charged with protecting the advances of American Corporates coming here and enslaving us all into their banking systems for their bidding .
Would I be surprised that if , in the near future future , a black ops company like Serco-owned, private security firms are conscripted by the NZ Police to do the tawdry stuff like quelling public dissent in the suburbs ? No, I would not.
Hot investment tip? Invest in companies who manufacture weapons of domestic control. Like face recognition security cameras , drones, pepper sprays and tasers.
Israeli arms dealers .
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2014/05/lab-20145475423526313.html
Might it have something to do with the world currency reserve shifting to the yuan? The western “banking clowns” are bankrupt you know.
Will we pillage, loot, burn and rape? Yeah ….. nah.
Have the cops announced that their latest shooting victim was unarmed at the time or are they still searching for ammunition that wasn’t manufactured after the incident? You won’t catch the corrupt buggers out with that one again! LOL
Yeah they admitted he was unarmed, but he SAID he was armed (apparently) so you know….
This will just add to the mistrust of the police. This will add to the cowboy cops being more aggressive and insensitive. This will add to the militarization of the police, a police state and this is just the plan.
They are afraid of the disenfranchised people and the poverty levels rising and the possibilities of the people acting out and being more violent so they want to protect themselves. These greedy “out of touch” governments and politicians are partly responsible for helping create a populace that is revolting and justly so over being treated so unfairly with low wages ; very few jobs; homelessness and program cuts for those in need etc.
I understand the mistrust of the police and it is going on worldwide as this ” military like police state ” grows. Most , not all, but most police are not the brightest lights and are not very educated and some are BULLIES so give them a taser and we will see more violence and more aggression and more abuse and likely more deaths as a result.
This will not help ease violence, but contribute to its growth, like a plaster being put on a broken arm.
I notice the young bloke from Serbia who lost it recently wasn’t saved by the police tasers – they shot him dead – and he had no firearm. Increasing the militarisation of police is not a public service.
Not the best example considering he was on a crime spree, claimed to have a gun and ignored instructions by approached armed officers.
– Now if he had been armed and some police tried to take him down with just tasers then it would probably have ended much worse
Under NZ & UK law we have the doctrine of equivalent force. Bringing a gun to a knife fight overturns or severely weakens any claims of self-defence.
For police to shoot dead an unarmed man shows that some folk were not following their procedures. If police use tasers inappropriately the victim may survive, if they don’t have heart conditions. But the shooters were out of line. There are no circumstances in which police may shoot an unarmed man.
Police delay in releasing details are probably intended to try to save the careers of the shooters – better for the police if they are not saved.
He was a young man from Slovakia, by the way, not Serbia.
The case smells bad, like another desperate cover up by the cops.
Agree totally. It is INTIMIDATION, pure and simple, with the aim of elevating every cop to the status of an infallible God-like “authority”, whose every command MUST be obeyed, and woe betide anybody who dares to argue with a cop.
Also, as you mention, a taser is a very dangerous weapon, and can cause death. Their use is another symptom of the creeping Amercianisation of our police force, and do not forget it is OUR police force, it BELONGS to US, the citizens, NOT to the Commissioner, nor to the minister, but to US! The police are supposed to be OUR servants, and they used to be, but that has been eroded to where they are a law unto themselves.
It would be interesting to see some stats on Australia on these issues…where the Police are often armed with a side arm. Yet , unlike the USA the public generally are not allowed to bear firearms in a public place.
The threat of abuse was clearly seen on the north western motorway where the police fired and killed the wrong man. And there is certainly potential for abuse .
Yet going back to Aramoana…we could hardly expect police to turn up with just tasers – or the incident at Napier with Jan Molenaar…
Yet its true that the sight of tasers can render the public less cooperative in dealing with the police…creating a them and us attitude.
Again…it would be interesting to see some study’s done on the general public’s view of police carrying sidearms in Australia.
The other thing is … if the incidence of violent crime has dropped…why now?…are we really being primed for future oppressive political ends? And could this be part of a general method for crushing valid political dissent?
During the 1981 Springboks tour we saw police willingness to use potential lethal force in the form of batons..and baton charges…so it cannot be argued the potential isn’t there. Perhaps its a credit that no one actually did die. But scores were wounded quite severely needing hospitalization…and many were not even involved directly in those demonstrations…
So is this just a symptom of lazy policing and even lazier political thought ?
Or is it a genuine concern by police that the threat of booze fueled violence necessitates that added precaution in any event ?….and therein lies the dilemma…that those things can be drawn by any belligerent and frustrated officer without due process under stress of trying to enforce the law…
I would like to see much much more honest and statistical disclosure on this issue …with a lot more public input before any one govt makes some kind of arbitrary new law permitting this .
They are after all…both police and politicians …OUR public servants…not the other way round. And it seems a few public figures need to be constantly reminded of this fact.
Aramoana was armed offenders squad – we need them – but not for most offenders.
…again we head in the wrong direction….
Milgram comes to mind.
What is really worrying jonkey? The yuan?
I have a contention that tasers are there as an alternative to lethal force, so I though I would check out the numbers on lethal force, on the assumption that our cops use this as the last resort to save theirs and other peoples lifes.
I Googled a few numbers on how lethal our police are in comparison with other countries, Britain in particular…it appears that are cops who have killed 12 in the last 25 years compare unfavorably with the British police (55 in last 25 years), so per capita our cops kill at over double the rate.
If that is a worry the US cops kill at a rate of around 400 a year, so at roughly 25 times the UK rate, and 12 times our NZ rate per capita / per annum.
As readers are aware the UK cops like ours do not carry hand guns as routine. In UK rifles are difficult to come by legally, which might explain our double rate. The US rate may reflect their cops carrying guns and the citizens right to do the same.
Raw figures hide all sorts of assumptions but I would hazard a guess that if we routinely arm police with tasers they will use them routinely…that might however mean that the roughly half of people shot by police might not get shot (these people had lethal weapons but not firearms…knives, hammers etc). As I am not on the front line I cant tell if tasers are needed but in my eyes they are infinitely preferable to firearms. What we really need is some real verifiable info from the police to make a case for tasers, and a public debate to follow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10539110
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries
I attended a very peaceful, candle light anti-war vigil outside FJK’s home. There weren’t very many people there. There was a group of police standing well down the road about 5 of them. The rest of them stayed where they were while one of them walked through us and stood right outside the gate with his hands folded across his chest, made his taser easier to see. I immediately had a feeling of anger, there was no threat to anyone. I can see this causing even more distrust of the police.
If tasers had the extremely high rate of injury and death that Keith tells us, then there is no way they would be tasering each other as part of the training.
And if Keith had even done his basic research he would see that Tasers like pepper spray can’t be carried to any protest.
One would also think he would be welcoming the fact that excessive use of the taser is the most accountable form of force the police can use given that every interraction is videoed and scrutinized by the IPCA. As opposed to a batton (which he appears to think is preferable) that will undoubtedly cause injury and has no nice camera at the end of it seeing as to whether it was justifiable or not.
Not yet. In a few years, it will be standard equipment.
Time Line please; was the taser decision made before the ‘final’ TPP meeting where it was strongly thought a sign-off was imminent.
A LOT of people will be unhappy and will want to protest about it, hence my thought that taser use on protestors is also imminent.
On the 15th, I cannot make it to the TPP protest, unfortunately, but I suggest protestors watch their backs; there is nothing this government will not do to get control over New Zealanders’ freedoms.
The police are not permitted to carry tasers on demonstrations.
Yeah right.
One cop had one at the last Waihopai demonstration in January and when inquiries where made about this, they siad it was a mistake but they had come from a situation where a taser had been carried and forgotten to remove it.
And someone says the protest outside Key’s house a cop had a taser.
I heard that it took 20 minutes and then they shot the guy int he park dead in Auckland. And yet there have been hostage situations that have gone on for days, so what is that about.
It is those with mental health problems that I worry about most and I am sure those of us who go on demonstrations will be put off.
They are a law unto themselves.
“The police are not permitted to carry tasers on demonstrations.
Yeah right.
One cop had one at the last Waihopai demonstration in January and when inquiries where made about this, they siad it was a mistake but they had come from a situation where a taser had been carried and forgotten to remove it.”
Thanks for proving my point!
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