Why it simply isn’t credible that Key stepped in and shut down the mass surveillance program



Key’s staggering admission that yes there was a year long business model by the GCSB to mass spy on all of NZ but  that he stepped in and shut it down after Cabinet had signed it off just sounds like make believe doesn’t it? Key shut it down after the 5 Eyes had signed it off? Key shut it down after his American mates had signed it off? We now have to believe that Key suddenly grew a spine and cried “HALT” and managed to stop a mass surveillance programme that has been adopted by much larger and much more powerful countries than ours???

Gordon Campbell puts it most devastatingly…

Think about it. It may seem (marginally) plausible that Key should suddenly backtrack on a GCSB programme that he would surely have known about since its inception. Yet could he also in the process, significantly abridge a surveillance system seen as integral to the Five Eyes arrangement ? Logically, that seems highly unlikely. We like to think that we punch above our weight, but outpunching the NSA and unilaterally pulling the plug on a system that has been endorsed by our Five Eyes partners – such that they then wouldn’t be able to implement the system as a whole ? This would be the security intelligence version of withdrawing from the ANZUS pact. Key’s explanation simply doesn’t make sense.

…Gordon’s withering description of Key makes David Farrar seem terribly impotent post Dirty Politics…

Before getting onto the specifics of Key’s defence, the change in his relationship with the GCSB is, literally, incredible. The John Key of last year has vanished in a puff of smoke. Remember the Key who claimed to be unaware of what on earth the GCSB was up to – trust him, he knew nothing, nothing about the joint Police/FBI/GCSB operation being mounted on Kim Dotcom’s home until virtually the day it happened? All gone. Now we are being expected to regard him as the eagle-eyed monitor who crisply intercepted the GCSB’s proposed new modus operandi and knocked them back when they presumed to step over the line.He’s onto it, except when he isn’t. So, which John Key has been running the GCSB – the one who doesn’t know and can’t be held accountable for what it does, or the one who micro-manages its every intention?

…Key has been deceptive and has agreed to things no real leader of NZ would agree to. I don’t feel subservience to American Corporate Interests and the building of a mass surveillance state were spelt out in that nice TV advert where they’re all rowing.

I understand why they’re putting their backs into those oars now, Key’s rowing NZ to Washington.


The Daily Blog will live stream the event from 7pn.

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  1. Seriously , …..I think this Key character has a multiple personality disorder .

    I think we better vote him out as he needs help.

    Oh wait …didn’t he cut funding to that sector ?…ok , well..lets just send him back to USA to look after.

    He’s their man anyways , ….not ours.

  2. Besides, if there was even one hour of mass surveillance on New Zealand by the GCSB (before Key allegedly ‘shut it down’) then there was mass surveillance and Key must resign. He didn’t say ‘I will resign if there is ongoing mass surveillance’.
    But I agree with this. What happened to dotcom (like the guy or not) is incredibly frightening. Either Key knew all along (most likely) and is allowing and working with America to raid our citizens, or he has no idea and America can raid our citizens any time they like and our govt will do nothing to stop them! Key, lying or not has put us all in a very dangerous place and we must not stand for it.

    • Like I said before:
      The Australian press printed an article about “NZ have all been used as the test pilot for the new USA spy software. The article reported that we had all been spied on as part of the new software test (not just the mysterious 80 as claimed), and about how dumb we Kiwis were that we didn’t even know about it!”

      I was visiting my children in Aus at the time this was reported.
      Now it cannot be found anywhere! Which in itself is very suspicious.

      I expect Australia are in for the same treatment – because of what has to now be “set up” for the TPPA, and Tony Abbot, and the rest of Aus to come into line with the way that NZ has already been “set up” onto the US spy network.
      It may have already happened there too by now. Who knows what all these dirty secret squirrels get up to behind our innocent backs.


        • Yes!
          Well done Grumpystiltskin, and well done David Fisher!

          Obviously GCSB and NSA got the legal technical issues resolved via FJK and his crony mates – with the new and hasty law.

          Also, this reports that the “thinthread” surveillance was the entire population at that time – as thinthread had the ability to mask the callers, emailers etc identity – unless the pattern or graph of communications highlighted a ‘perceived’ need for a warrant.

          It been connived over quite a long time this establishment of our spy network – and now they have it just right.

          But for what purpose – for some ‘perceived’ terrorist attack possibility some time in our nations future.

          I bet the raid at the Ureweras was just to plant the terrorism seed into the minds of the gullible.

          The Jews run Hollywood, and the Banks, and FJK is a Jew – it all fits together nicely.

          Who cares if USA put embargos on NZ. Who cares!!!

          The world is in a sad state alright.

          All govts are corrupt, but wouldn’t it be loverly if our NZ was clean and free of all this garbage that is forced into our lives by corrupt wealthy cronies seeking power – and power of what? Do they seriously think they can control humanity with lies and empty meaningless words of tripe.
          I hate the smell of tripe.


          Be Gone!!!


    • I vote F. Vegas comment ^^ best of the day… I endorse his comment, “Key, lying or not has put us all in a very dangerous place and we must not stand for it.”

      We have a chance once every three years to sit in judgement on our Leaders. They have been Judged. We the people, a ‘jury’ of their peers, will now vote .. GUILTY or NOT GUILTY?

      I trust the wisdom and intelligence of my friends and neighbours.

      The last evidence will be presented this evening and summing up will occur during this week. The Jury will deliver their verdict 7pm 20 September.

  3. Latest Press Release from Greens:

    “Key politicising security for own political gain

    John Key’s claims he will declassify secret security documents in order to ‘protect’ himself and his reputation is deeply concerning, the Green Party said today.

    “It’s reprehensible that John Key is politicising New Zealand’s security and intelligence agencies and using them for his own partisan interests,” said Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman.

    “John Key is doing whatever suits him for purely party political reasons, using New Zealand’s security agencies for his own political gain.

    “Declassifying secret documents in order to protect your personal reputation must be outside of the scope of any rules or guidelines around declassification of secret documents.

    “John Key’s relaxed approach in this case to declassifying documents also raises serious questions about his claims that he had nothing to do with the declassification of documents prior to the 2011 election relating to former Labour Party leader Phil Goff and the Security Intelligence Service (SIS), as revealed in the ‘Dirty Politics’ book.

    “John Key has claimed that declassifying documents had nothing to do with him and that it was a decision for the Director of Security of the SIS. But he is now contradicting himself and undermining his arguments on what really happened with the release of SIS documents by pushing ahead with declassifying documents at his will.

    “John Key’s credibility as the Minister responsible for New Zealand’s security agencies is seriously in question.

    “The revelations that have come to light in the last few days courtesy of Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Glenn Greenwald make it appear that the GCSB has been doing whatever it wants, even if against the law.

    “When you look at the timeline of events, it appears that it wasn’t until Rebecca Kitteridge was brought into the agency that the GCSB’s work on mass surveillance stopped.

    “It’s all very well for John Key to say that he stepped in to stop mass surveillance from continuing, but given his callous approach and neglect in this area, how can we be sure.

    “This weekend’s revelations make it all the more urgent to fix our spy agencies.

    “In Government, the Green Party will undertake a wide ranging, full and independent inquiry into New Zealand’s intelligence agencies,” Dr Norman said.

    Subjects: Security and Intelligence, Parliament and Politics

    Green Party Parliamentary Office, Parliament Buildings, Wellington,
    New Zealand
    Authorised by Metiria Turei and Russel Norman, Parliament Buildings, Wellington”

  4. Brilliant . Jonky’s song and dance routine is the best show to come out of Hollywood in years . It’s starting to make Broadway look like Spoons and Harmonicas Night at the Balclutha War Memorial Hall .

    As I’ve said all along . And fuck it if I sound smug . Jonky-stien owes favours . Big favours . He’s supposed to be the lid on the pressure cooker but that’s now boiling itself to an un-stoppable explosion . When it blows ? OMG !

    How’s your sphincter holding up roger douglas ? fay / richwhite ? Sleeping well are you ? fletcher ? How’s the blood pressure then ?

    Gee , I hope you guys are ok . I was thinking about you just the other day when I was leaving flowers at my Dads grave . My dad tells me he has a space saved for you through the big warm black door down the hall on the Right .

  5. Key shut down the GCSB surveillance conveniently once the US new SPY software tests had been completed.

    Thought he could get away with it – But NO FJK! NO!


  6. And don’t forget justifying the murder of NZ citizens by another state via a drone in a country we are not at war with!

  7. A “business case” is; “.. often presented in a well-structured written document, but may also sometimes come in the form of a short verbal argument or presentation”

    The point of a business case is to, at times, comprehensively detail a proposal to see if its worth spending money on a project and if so a successful business case then justifies spending money on that project.

    I hope that this “business case” John Key stated was simply that, a verbal argument or written document to which any action would be based. Because if this business case already had foundations and structures undertaken and in place with money already spent in anticipation that it would go ahead fait accompli then it ceases being a business case and becomes a project already undertaken.

  8. So why has Greenwald been releasing aspects of the GCSB operation etc over the past two days – before the ‘moment of truth’??

    I can only hope that it’s for two reasons:

    firstly, in order to entrap Dishonest John into further lies.
    secondly, that whatever is revealed tonight is to be a complete slam dunk.

    Otherwise, it seems only to give Dishonest John a heads-up and give him the opportunity to prepare his cover in advance.

  9. The PM may be being technically truthful about the GCSB, if the mass surveillance program had instead been transferred to the NZSIS. This makes sense as the NZSIS are the domestic spy agency. The PM should also produce documentation that the NZSIS does not do the mass surveillance that he is wanting to deny.

    Privacy is an important issue of human rights. More important than the politically motivated attack on those that stand up for privacy. Actually, the thing is, as the end of the day, I will be trusting the words of whomever has the Pulitzer, that proves that the veracity of their words have been lauded by their peers.

    Mass surveillance may have a place, but it first needs to be discussed openly. Perhaps the UN could have a role in the archiving of the vast amount of meta data, instead of unseen agencys with unknowing motives. If the PM and his henchmen want to downplay the right to privacy, then apply these values to yourselves, and declassify everything!, and then stop being so hypocritical about the actions of whistleblowers like Snoden.

    Hager and spying revelations are going to dog the PM well into any possible third term. From the PM’s point of view of the coming poll, winning may be losing, and losing may be winning.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, its time to organise that 7pm power-cut in Auckland, that will be blamed on solar flare activity 🙂

  10. It appears Key is taking that “nice guy” persona to mythical levels with this one. Perhaps it’s just the god complex kicking in.

  11. Whose man is John Key?

    Certainly not the people of New Zealand’s.

    What did they get on him during his time in the states?

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