TDB BREAKING EXCLUSIVE: Kim Dotcom to attend and speak at MANA AGM

1. My instincts tell me that things just got a whole lot more interesting! This merger is so “crazy” that it might just get the disenfranchised folk curious enough and interested enough to turn up at the polling booths on 20th September. We need Labour, Greens and Mana to be firing on all cylinders to end National’s reign of terror.

   Greens are already on the right track. Mana just got some wheels. We just need to remind Labour that they are a party of the left, and if any of their “old timers”continue to resist this, they need to be left at the bus stop to find their own way home.

   • The Greens seem more equivocal than ever and Labour is still lost in the political wilderness. Both of these parties, Mana and IP, are cracking open fresh eggs that defy traditional boundaries. Gareth Morgan likes the smell coming from the kitchen and I for one am looking forward to the omelette.

     • I haven’t noticed the Greens being equivocal. Check out their website at http://www.greens.org.nz for press releases and policy. The Greens actually deserve a vote of thanks from the entire Left for being the only true opposition to the government for the past three years.

   • Agree totally Tim about Labour old guard. Hopefully an Election victory will give Labour more seats to enable new blood and give certain MPs their marching orders. New Zealand needs some Norman Kirk styled politicians to get us back on track. However having seen Shane Jones on The Nation, he seems to have his own vision. I’m not slamming Jones though as his work on Progressive Enterprises has been thorough, but the Labour ranks have many and Varied positions on most issues, which could be dangerous in face of tightly disciplined Nats.

2. Jesus ! This is pretty extraordinary .

3. How long before the MSM catch on to the fact that this is all a marketing campaign on behalf of MANA?
   As if MANA would team up with Kim Dot-No-Policy.
   MANA will milk this for a few weeks and the say no, then KDT pledges his allegiance to MANA and MANA picks up some young non-voters.

   There’s one thing I still can’t work out – who’s the ring-leader of this circus?
   A) Hone
   B) KDC
   C) Bomber

   • Sorry Fatty, you can’t play the “no policy” card anymore. The IP’s policies are spelled out on their website. You could always revert to the “no candidates” smear if it makes you feel better.

     • Danyl, I am assuming you are talking about their ‘action agenda’?

       If that is ‘spelling out’ policies, then I’ll give the IP a miss thanks. The so called ‘policies’ are so broad they could be National’s. It’s little more than a few buzzwords directed at some vague topics. Maybe if they spent less time on their silly homemade movies and more on writing some policies, then MANA would take them seriously.
       Are these really the IP’s policies, or is this just the sort of rhetoric we find on National’s webpages:
       ‘Internet in every classroom’ …(whip-de-do).
       ‘Government efficiency’ …(never heard that one before).
       ‘Supports a clean energy future. We support investing in clean energy technologies’ …(I’m sure I read that on the that a Blue-Greens website – government funds for private businesses etc).
       ‘Bring more innovation, investment, and high-tech jobs to New Zealand’ …(Is that a Stephen Joyce soundbite or is that the IP’s policy?)

       Perhaps I’m wrong…have I missed the policies, or is this it?

       IP ‘Modern Schools’:

       “With our vast knowledge and experience with technology, we are committed to improving New Zealand’s schools. We will ensure high-speed Internet connects every classroom in a safe and teacher-led environment, and that teachers and students are provided with the necessary tools to succeed. The Internet Party pledges to fix the unacceptable Novopay debacle as a priority.”

       IP ‘Responsive Government’:

       “The Internet Party will make government more efficient. Today’s government is disconnected from the public, while citizens regularly experience frustration when accessing government services. We will make the government work for the people. Citizens will be able to give feedback on performance, and we’ll ensure that faster and better government service is delivered as a result.”

       IP ‘Environment’:

       “The Internet Party supports a clean energy future. We support investing in clean energy technologies that minimise our impact on the environment and promote sustainable development. We will push for New Zealand to become a world leader in green technologies and smart homes and cities. The Internet Party will work to build green data centres in New Zealand and attract global online companies.”

       IP ‘Innovation and Jobs’:

       “The Internet Party’s policies about the digital economy and the environment will bring more innovation, investment, and high-tech jobs to New Zealand. We will double the research and development investment in New Zealand from businesses with incentives and benefits. The Internet Party will support skills development and bridge the digital divide to help everyone connect to and benefit from the Internet.”

       • Don’t forget Fatty that the Key gang was originally elected on a a few meagre A4 sheets of ‘bullet points’, barely a “policy” as we know it to be found. Thats how Crosby Textor and the Hollowmen operate.

         • Exactly Tiger Mountain.

           I’m not one of these MANA members who seem to hate KDC just because he’s rich or whatever. I think he’s awesome. I’d love to see his party do well and get over 5%.

           However I think MANA have too much to lose and too little to gain considering the IP’s policies remain a mystery. For me, MANA get my vote because of their policies and that they pretty much guaranteed Hone’s seat.

           • Hey Fatty, repeating your claim is not evidence for it. I think you need to read the IP policy summary more carefully. I don’t think you’ll find “Stop the government spying on citizens” or “reform copyright laws” on a Nat policy statement, and I don’t think you’ll find many “candidates who are experts in important areas of social policy and reducing social inequalities” running for the the Nats. Agreed we can only see summaries so far, but it is policy, and a manifesto will be forthcoming.

             BTW What gets Hone elected is his personal recognition in his rohe. He got twice the votes Mana did in Te Tai Tokerau in 2011, with the remainder divvied up between National, NZ First, and the Greens. Claiming that Hone gets votes because of Mana policies is wishful thinking.

             • “Claiming that Hone gets votes because of Mana policies is wishful thinking.”

               Yes, I agree with you there, my last comment was poorly written, I didn’t mean that Hone gets in because of Mana’s policies. I meant Mana get my vote because Hone wins a seat.
               Where I said: “MANA get my vote because of their policies and that they pretty much guaranteed Hone’s seat…I actually meant to say: “MANA get my vote because of their policies and that MANA are pretty much guaranteed Hone’s seat.

               And as for the IP’s policies about not spying and copyright laws…those are just middle class pakeha identity politics.
               I might be a middle class Pakeha, but I don’t really give a shit about the government spying on me. There are some real serious issues in society, but a pervert from the CIA checking my emails isn’t one of them.
               The IP’s mention of social justice is interesting…but how long does it take to write some policies. It would take me a week to write a manifesto. I’d start with MANA and the Green’s policies as a foundation, and go from there. A small party’s manifesto doesn’t need to be as thorough as Labour, Green’s or National’s. But it should be better than half a dozen vague paragraphs. Either the IP is MANA’s marketing gimmick, or KDC has wasted an opportunity to make an impact

               • I wonder if those affected by the Operation 8 raids would agree with you that surveillance is “middle class pakeha identity politics”? All you are doing with this comment is showing your own privilege. If you are a middle-class pākeha who isn’t actively involved in politics beyond comments on blogs or FB (actually *active*), no amount of mass surveillance is likely to affect you individually. But what it does it make it easy for the state to punish people who take action against unpopular policies (eg fossil fuel extraction). This creates a chilling effect, discouraging people from taking an interest in politics at all, and the massive non-vote in the last election is only the tip of that iceberg of disengagement.

                 Copyright reform is also the tip of an iceberg – a massive transformation in the way artists, educators, journalists, programmers, and others make a living. Copyright makes them the serfs of multinational publishing empires like AOL-Time-Warner, Fairfax, and Microsoft. It puts the work they create behind corporate paywalls, or user agreements that allow companies to sell their users personal information. Copyright reform, combined with some kind of a universal basic income, and an increase in public funding and crowdfunding to cover the cost of producing works, turns artistic and intellectual work back into a public commons which *everyone* benefits from, not just “middle-class pākeha”.

                 Oh, and is opposing the TPPA “middle-class pākeha identity politics” too? The IP got members out on the streets to support the Day of Action against the TPPA, and unlike Labour, they want to stop the agreement, not just read it before they sign it.

                 • “I wonder if those affected by the Operation 8 raids would agree with you that surveillance is “middle class pakeha identity politics”?”

                   …sure, because the GCSB protesters were worried about the civil rights of Tame Iti? Don’t be silly. The GCSB protests were predominantly middle class Pakeha protesting against a moral panic. You’re insulting the Tūhoe activists. What percentage of the GCSB protesters around NZ do you really think support Tūhoe’s struggle through the Waitangi Tribunal?…not many.

                   “it make it easy for the state to punish people who take action against unpopular policies (eg fossil fuel extraction).”

                   Again, a nice story, but the real problem facing environmental protesters is that NZ’s car culture has been part of our society for 60 years – our cities are built for automobiles and people vote for cheap oil…but sure, blame your ineffectiveness on privacy laws.
                   And as for copyright laws, meh, is this really something to get a boner about? Digital freedom is a protest for privileged libertarians. Its a good diversion tactic from those in power. Makes for good memes though.
                   And as for the TPPA…now you are talking about some serious politics. Forget your silly spy fantasies and downloading freedoms, instead, look at trade policies in the TPPA. And yeah, Labour’s trade deals suck, that goes without saying, that’s why I vote MANA…but at least Labour have policies and not just a video about a manifesto. Let me know when KDC has written something up, about real issues

   • There’s one thing I still can’t work out – who’s the ring-leader of this circus?

     Does it matter?

     As long as we can throw Key out of office, that would make my decade. 😀

4. fels like a hair brained scheme that will fail to materialise the required votes. all the 1% parties are lucky to ever get higher unless they do rich schemed hard on criminal type policies like act

5. KDC brings in the global and tech perspectives that have often been missing from NZ politics. It is doubtful he would compromise Mana social policy, and he has a visceral understanding of the importance of human rights issues.

   Some of the backroom conversations may be pretty difficult at times but he has the complementary skill sets Mana needs to appeal beyond the linear dialectic that could have confined them to a marginal role.

   More power to Hone et al for not being satisfied with comfortable inaction but lining up a team that can change the game and win.

   • It is amazing how much support Hone has actually got in mainstream NZ even within Maoridom he is respected for his intellect, unfortunately MSM do not understand the man, as their brains are not highly enough evolved to understand NZ History, and what has really gone on in this country with the theft of land and now the theft of State Assets.

     • True Jack, I think Hone is one of the most underrated MPs out there. I don’t remember him coming across badly on an interview on TV.
       Chopped up soundbites and comments taken out of context are another thing though. The media wins there. But if the media has to misrepresent you, then the media has lost

6. Mana has already bumped TIP off supporting National, Te Mana Movement has had more publicity in the last month than the previous year. Mana members have even more reason to want to put the choker chain on the GCSB/SIS/Cops special ops etc than Kim does. And would support removing NZ from 5 eyes.

   Mana operates all year round where it has branches not just during the electoral cycle like most of the others. Sure many MPs attend the opening of a wine bottle or day care centre but they don’t operate like Mana does engaging the young and marginalised and being active.

   Does Goblin Gower know about the Mangere branch for instance? Strengthened as a spin off of John Mintos mayoral campaign where the community cleaving motorway was kicked into touch by local action.

   Hone has also spoken to some of the hard left in Mana about this initiative and a common position is a “sure talk, take it to the members, but no compromise on the social policies”. Sue Bradford may become an outlier on this one, and no disrespect to her being the only standard bearer for beneficiaries for years in parliament, but she is a leaver of organisations. She often leaves a group and then sets up a new one with her loyal coterie from People Centre days. Currently AAAP.

   At the end of the day Mana members will determine this and it might not be via some kind of formal vote at Rotorua, may take a bit longer.

   • @Tiger Mountain
     “Mana has already bumped TIP off supporting National”

     Don’t think so. It was never realistic given Key’s total commitment to a surveillance state and the fact that his massive handouts of public money to movie corporates make it clear he would never consider copyright reform – a critical IP policy. Like the Greens, the IP only ever talked about being able to work with National in an attempt to look non-partisan, and appeal to disgruntled Nat voters. Key’s dismissal of working with KDC let them off the hook, don’t kid yourself it was anything to do with Mana.

     “sure talk, take it to the members, but no compromise on the social policies”

     This is totally reasonable, and the only reason people have given to think this might be a problem for the IP is the fact that KDC is “rich”. Well yes, he’s certainly got more coin than you or me, but the fact that he is not above the law is pretty clear proof he’s not part of the 1%.

     I would hate to see Sue B leave Mana. She accomplished some good thing in her time with the Greens, and I have a lot of respect for her strategic approach to politics (eg her thesis research on left think tanks). Her support for a “universal basic income” actually gels nicely with the sort of cyber-libertarians who are supporting the IP. They see a UBI as a way to provide a guaranteed living for artists, programmers etc without the need for draconian copyright laws which allow people to have their network access denied for freely sharing cultural works.

7. I am starting to change my views on the matter. National has used the Epsom rule so many times to their advantage, it would be absurd if they were to criticize an arrangement from an opposite alliance.

   And, not only has National used the Epsom rule to make up their numbers, they have also used it to implement policy without campaigning on it – charter schools.

   Mana and Internet could use the rule AND claim the moral high-ground with a cornerstone policy to get rid of the Epsom rule, which is what most NZs submitted they want.

   Interesting times in deed.

   • Why would they get rid os a rule which benefits them just as much as ACT?

     • Because surprisingly some politicians are willing to do what is right for the country as a whole and not just for their back pockets……..excluding of course the (RICH foreigners interest before the poor of NZ) National party

     • “Why would they get rid os a rule which benefits them just as much as ACT?”

       It may surprise you but the answer was already in my initial comment and I happily repeat it for you: ” which is what most NZs submitted they want”.

       It’s got something to do with listing to submitters – an unfamiliar concept for many right-wingers.

       • Kevin & Martino – hear hear!!

8. […] So why is Martyn Bradbury enthusing about letting his friend(?) Hone Harawira ally with cyber-libertarian Kim Dotcom? […]

9. Jeez Bradbury, if you are supporting this sick combo you’re even dumber than I thought you were. Maybe you should take up another more honourable career -like cleaning toilets, or looking after alzeimer patients.

10. A merger with Dotcom would be the death of Mana. Mana is the best thing I have seen happen to Kiwi electoral politics in my life time, and has taken a heap of work to get to where it is today. It does not need, nor can it afford, a formal alliance with Dotcom and his politics of identity.

11. I have to say that I think Hone is maturing as a politician and he is more aware of how he is coming across. He seems to be consciously managing the more, er, abrasive side of his personality, which tends to alienate people who like what he says, but not how he says it. His comments in the media are far more measured. On this morning’s national radio with Guyon Espiner he came across very well and presented a clear rationale for the two parties working together. Yep, its an unlikely match. But this is MMP, and our confrontational. factional approach has given us 6 years of slash and burn under the nats, and Labour STILL treat the Greens more like lepers than a credible coalition partner. Lets try something fresh.

12. I won’t be voting for him (I’m a Labour girl!) but if he can help the left throw out this scum-ridden government, then good on him!

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