Wait? WHAT! NZ Police wanted 7 day open window to search anyone suspected of a gang insignia??? Unbelievable Police State overreach
Ummmmmm.
What the actual?
Police wanted significant new search powers as part of gang patch crackdown
Newshub can reveal police wanted significant new search and seizure powers to make the Government’s gang patch crackdown effective.
They include the ability for officers to search the properties and vehicles of anyone suspected of displaying gang insignia for up to seven days.
The powers aren’t found in the new legislation and police wouldn’t say if they’d still like the Government to pursue them.
The cops wanted what now?
Police said they required “an additional power of search and seizure that relates to all gang paraphernalia (which could be used in a subsequent offence) rather than only paraphernalia which was displayed publicly in non-compliance with the ban”.
It was argued that would allow police to gather information at a later point with appropriate planning.
“Police therefore consider that, regardless of whether a charge has been filed or the specific publicly displayed paraphernalia seized, a person suspected of displaying gang insignia in public should be subject to the following activity for a period of seven days following the alleged offending.”
The document then lists “searches of their property (owned and occupied) or vehicles (owned and used), as well as more seizure powers.
“Seizure of any and all gang paraphernalia found at or in the property or vehicle regardless of ownership, with no need to prove the gang insignia belongs to the alleged offender. Any insignia found in these places, regardless of ownership, will be subject to seizure.”
Jesus wept this is such a spastic knee-jerk police state over reach!
The Police would have vast 7 day window to stop and search anyone suspected of a gang insignia – seeing as a colour can technically be gang insignia, that’s anyone who might have worn red or blue in public???
This whole gang patch ban is stupid enough as it is, allowing Police extraordinary stop and search powers for a week after being a suspect is quite an extraordinary over reach of police power.
This is the true danger of this Government, they are so ideologically driven they don’t care their foaming mouthed promises of revenge during the election make things worse…
Government ignores official advice gang crackdown could backfire, increase membership
The government’s gang crackdown could backfire, driving up rates of gang membership, increasing domestic violence and making it harder to exit gangs, according to expert advice from justice officials.
The government is expected to today introduce legislation banning gang patches in public, limiting freedom of association and imposing harsher sentences for crimes, regardless of whether the crime is linked to being in a gang.
…When even Judith Collins tells you the Gang Patch Ban goes against Bill of Rights you know we are in trouble…
Gang patch ban inconsistent with rights — Attorney-General
The Government’s move to prohibit gang patches in public places would be inconsistent with the rights to expression, association and peaceful assembly, a report by the Attorney-General Judith Collins has found.
…when even Damien Grant can see Gang Patch Bans won’t work…
‘The state should not tell anyone what to wear,’ writes Damien Grant
My position is more fundamental; the state should not be telling some of the worst members of our society what to wear because the state should not tell anyone what to wear.
..when two right wing idealogical vultures like Damien and Judith agree on State over reach, you fucking know the State has over reached!
Here’s my fear with National’s crackdown on Gangs.
The first is that they won’t work.
Banning Patches in public, using dispersion powers, implementing non association orders and increased powers for warrantless searches all sound tough to a public who are frightened and tired and resentful of feeling intimidated but won’t do a bloody thing in terms of curtailing Gangs because it fundamentally misses why there has been a jump in gangs and gang violence in the first place.
More of that in a moment.
The second thing I fear is that it starts feeling like persecution.
I know.
You are laughing. You don’t care if Gangs feel persecuted by the Police.
“Great”, you will scream, and all laugh at how I’ve managed to sound woker than woke.
“Bomber fears the Gangs will feel persecuted’ you laugh.
Hear me out.
When you start abusing the power of the State in the manner we are all cheering for against the Gangs you risk radicalising criminals and that is the last fucking thing you want to do in any country!
Look at how the radicalisation of the Parliament Lawn Protestors has metastasized into the dangerous cocktail of resentment that has become.
Imagine putting those pressures on violent organised criminals.
Of course organised crime needs to be challenged at all times by the Police, but what we are doing here is implementing bumper sticker policy that will only cause counter productive outcomes as opposed to smarter Policing.
Hand on heart I don’t think National MPs could tell you what is the difference between the Mongrel Mob, Mongols, Head Hunters, Black Power or Comancheros and that’s deeply concerning because they all have completely different reasons for existence and attempting to tackle the most glaringly apparent elements of gangs with laws that breach human rights will only radicalize those communities.
The problem we have right now with gangs is the unprecedented forced deportation of the 501 criminal elements from Australia who have unleashed a tsunami of violent gang take overs because they are prepared to use a level of violence and sophistication far in advance of the domestic gangs.
These 501 syndicates are using their contacts with South American Cartels to import a purer, cheaper Meth and it is this turf war for the Meth trade that is shaping the current violence.
Police gaining powers to harass and intimidate the poorest members of this crime pyramid with powers that breach human rights will only radicalise that community.
Look at this.
…what that arsehole Simeon Brown never points out is that the $2.75million given to the Mongrel Mob came from the proceeds of crime fund! It wasn’t taxpayer money, it was the proceeds of crime that was paying for drug rehabilitation programmes because that is how you move the community Gangs like Black Power and Mongrel Mob away from crime.
This is the exact type of programmes you want to run.
Where the Gang Intelligence should be focused is on the 501 syndicates because their connection to South American Cartels is legitimately destabilising and dangerous.
Nothing National are suggesting has any connection to reality beyond ZB talking points.
Back to the Gang Patches ban in public.
Patched members are never allowed to hand over their patch so Police will need to beat the gang member unconscious to remove the patch.
When the next Gang tangi occurs after the patch ban, Luxon will have to demand the Police go in and take the patches which will require a heavily armed Police response that will immediately deteriorate into a shoot out.
Can Luxon demand that? Of course he can’t!
The Police Commissioner will tell Mark Mitchell and the PM to go fuck themselves when they demand that they move in because this is a liberal progressive democracy and the Police don’t do the bidding of the politicians!
No Police Commissioner in their right mind would risk that many Police Officers to take patches off gang members at a bloody funeral!
As the impotency of National’s gang patch ban gets highlighted and as their increased Police powers start to get challenged in Court as a breach of human rights, an increasingly frustrated National will start seeking more and more extreme measures in a never ending pissing competition led by hard men like Mark Mitchell and Simeon Brown against da gangs.
If NZ First get to designate gangs as domestic terrorists we are just in uncharted crazy land.
We don’t need harder policing, we need smarter policing because this cavalcade of tough on crime short on facts crap is going to cause far more damaging blowback.
The cops attempting to sneak a radical interpretation of stop and search powers for a week is the piss icing on top of a shit cake.
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Very unfair on us as Māori we all have whanau in gangs so we will be tarred by association, and this has the potential to be abused. This will also get peoples backs up and cause more social problems with the burden failing on innocent whanau. It’s bad enough we get targeted I have experienced this firsthand, and boy do I get angry when they do ethnic profiling.
Very unfair on us as Māori we all have whanau in gangs so we will be tarred by association, and this has the potential to be abused. This will also get peoples backs up and cause more social problems with the burden failing on innocent whanau. It’s bad enough we get targeted I have experienced this firsthand, and boy do I get angry when they do ethnic profiling.
I get pulled over about once every two months, large brown male with tattoos driving a nice clean ute…
There were a few reasons for Labour losing the election but one of them was their softly softly handling of the gangs . Their power and mana needs to be lowered so they do not appeal to young people .
The whole reason why the gangs are popular needs serious work over the long term. Input needs to be sourced from Maori leaders as so many of them make up the gangs
There were a few reasons for Labour losing the election but one of them was their softly softly handling of the gangs . Their power and mana needs to be lowered so they do not appeal to young people .
The whole reason why the gangs are popular needs serious work over the long term. Input needs to be sourced from Maori leaders as so many of them make up the gangs
This legislation is ridiculous. It doesn’t do anything tangible to deal with the real causes of crime. It is akin to medieval sumptuary laws, which banned certain groups of people from wearing certain clothing on the basis of occupation, restricting access to certain fabrics, and later, as in contemporary Europe, banning Muslim women from wearing hijabs, or prescribing ‘correct socialist haircuts” in North Korea, or banning drag as occurred in the United States during the fifties.
” When the next Gang tangi occurs after the patch ban, Luxon will have to demand the Police go in and take the patches which will require a heavily armed Police response that will immediately deteriorate into a shoot out.
Can Luxon demand that? ”
The Police are too busy at Mandy’s house.
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What if every one adopts a new fashion of having similar decals like the patches so popular with some people. Would the police go around arresting us? That would be fun providing there is lawyers handy.
When Judith Collins, the gangs, the Free Speech Union and TDB all agree, the legislation must be bad. Who will they come for next? It might not be you or me this week, but the precedent set with this legislation is outrageous.
So… here’s what’s happening, the police want to be able to use the “sighting” of a gang patch to broaden their availability of search warrants, and while a suspect is detained, they will be able to confiscate any gang paraphernalia e.g. gang patches, without risk to the “arresting” officers. The police will then be able to tell Mark Mitchell they are upholding his ridiculous pogrom. Then the lawyers of the slighted gang will then challenge this in court, due to the fact that gang members do not own the patches they wear, because they are issued by the gang, and that the police have in fact taken something that does not belong to the gang member. Thus clogging the courts with retrieval petitions from the gang. Sounds to me like this is going to cost the tax payer a fortune.
Spot on.
The police, once spotting a suspected ‘ gang ‘ symbol will also have to waste time perusing through a huge catalogue of pictures of legally banned insignia. Then on with the paperwork of issuing a notice , to offender , then fill in the incident diary and report form.
Meanwhile, the neighbour who wears no noticeable ‘ gang ‘ insignia , carries on incognito with his laundering business,
‘doordashing ‘ as a courier night and day.
Abracadabra !
Yes, if I were a smart criminal participant in organised crime and connected to overseas drug or other cartels, I wouldn’t be sporting insignia which drew attention to myself. But then again, most criminals – and politicians – aren’t as clever as they think they are.
Gang patches are recruitment advertising and for ‘intimidation’ just like a lot of other uniforms. Would the police rather crims self identify with patches or be inconspicuous like triads blending in with community or white collars hiding in plain sight?
If the criteria is red or blue clothing then David Seymour will need to be wary the next elected woke government doesn’t designate pink and yellow to be gang colors.
“ The police don’t do the bidding of politicians” ? Well at the Parliamentary Precinct Demonstration, the politicians, aka Trevor Mallard, aka Parliamentary Services, over-ruled the police’s request to turn off the sprinklers which were simplistically intended to drive the protestors away without listening to what they had to say. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the protestors, they did have the right to speak, just as those women seeking voices in Albert Park had a right to speak, and on both occasions the state was complicit in shutting them up. That looks like a bit of an overreach to me.
The outcome of the politicians’ stupidity at the Parliamentary grounds occupation impacted not just upon local Wellingtonians and their businesses, but throughout the country, including cops drafted in from elsewhere, families dislocated and covid infected and officers injured, while all the main political parties, all of them, were as useless as each other, watching safely from the balcony, and unified in protecting themselves, courtesy of those very same police.
What now ? Defund the police and replace them with social workers ? Underpay them encouraging them to emigrate after our hard-earned tax dollars have been spent training them, and some Minister bleating away that one day they might come back again ? What about their whanau and social communities?
Interestingly, Gale Garnett, talented 60’s pop singer who wrote and performed the iconic , “ We’ll sing in the sunshine… and then be on our way…” was a New Zealand-born girl who maybe epitomises our contemporary political arena, but probably with more working brain cells than most of the bottom warmers in the Beehive appear to have.
How
I will register the national party as a gang because it is led by a skin head gang leader .As for profiling maori as being responsable for all crime check out the photo on stuff of the fella who robbed a dairy with a large knife .Whites black power bloke ive ever seen ,but no doubt the cops will be too busy looking for a brown fella instead .
My daughter works in corrections and says the gang fellas are the most respectful to her ,adressing her as MISS while the white fellas are abusive arrogant arseholes .
I will register the national party as a gang because it is led by a skin head gang leader .As for profiling maori as being responsable for all crime check out the photo on stuff of the fella who robbed a dairy with a large knife .Whites black power bloke ive ever seen ,but no doubt the cops will be too busy looking for a brown fella instead .
My daughter works in corrections and says the gang fellas are the most respectful to her ,adressing her as MISS while the white fellas are abusive arrogant arseholes .
“Snatch the patch” will be a debacle. I am supporting gangs on this on the basis of freedom of speech, expression and association.
It’s a simple. The government has no business telling people what they may and may not wear. As long as it’s not nothing I guess. We don’t want to frighten the horses do we.
Men wearing suits do far more damage than men wearing gang patches